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Also if you don't understand why people would think "hmm, why should I use firefox when it is functionally equivalent to but slower and buggier than chrome" I don't think you fundamentally understand how people operate. Especially since this exact same scenario of trying to be an also-ran Chrome-clone while discarding all the customization and functionality options already played out with Opera, and was a rolling disaster for the company.
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Feb 8, 2017 02:51
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Asimo posted:Also if you don't understand why people would think "hmm, why should I use firefox when it is functionally equivalent to but slower and buggier than chrome" I don't think you fundamentally understand how people operate. Especially since this exact same scenario of trying to be an also-ran Chrome-clone while discarding all the customization and functionality options already played out with Opera, and was a rolling disaster for the company. fyi people also think the same thing but swap firefox and chrome in that quote
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Feb 8, 2017 03:55
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How long will it take Tab Mix Plus to make it so I can put tabs on the bottom of the window (not below the address bar, on the actual bottom) and use multi-row tab bars. Admittedly the latter is a lot more important. Every Chrome user I see looks like this and I don't know how they live: 
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Feb 8, 2017 05:18
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:How long will it take Tab Mix Plus to make it so I can put tabs on the bottom of the window (not below the address bar, on the actual bottom) and use multi-row tab bars. personally, I bookmark things and then close them.
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Feb 8, 2017 05:40
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Admittedly the latter is a lot more important. Every Chrome user I see looks like this and I don't know how they live: I wanted to like Chrome, but the lack of multirow tabs just killed it for me. I have Tab Mix Plus set up so that every tab spaces out perfectly with 7 tabs per line, which lets me see the titles of just about any web page I visit. Chrome smushing them down to a single letter drove me insane. LeftistMuslimObama posted:personally, I bookmark things and then close them. 
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Feb 8, 2017 07:50
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Every Chrome user I see looks like this and I don't know how they live: Not at all just chrome users. It's the browser equivalent of the "desktop covered with icons" thing. Meanwhile, on a different issue: I've been noticing that multithreading is producing small but ugly errors with text rendering -- loving up the antialiasing just a tiny bit with darker pixels. It's pretty random; even on the same line of text some letters will be grunged and some will be clean, so it's not like the old issues with scrolling they used to have a few years ago. Anything that forces a redraw like switching tabs fixes it. Also, selecting the text and then deselecting cleans it up, as with this before and after:  Now, I do have e10s force-enabled (due to addons) so I'm not totally cheesed about it. I'll probably go back to disabled for the interim. But I'm kinda suspicious that this is a pure e10s problem, and nothing to do with the addons.
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Feb 8, 2017 12:45
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I sympathize with the people who are trying to figure out alternatives in the wake of the coming Extension-geddon, but as someone who used Pale Moon for two years after the Australis update, do not look to them as a life raft. They've become at least as bad and in some respects worse than Mozilla on this. For one, they've switched engines completely which broke just about all modern Firefox extensions versions, and the dev team's response to complaints was "write your own extension or petition the extension devs to stop supporting the GOOGLE/MOZILLA ILLUMINATI and develop for our lovely knock-off browser exclusively instead." Modern greasemonkey broke compatibility a long time ago, and their suggestion for a replacement was an extension whose "documentation" was full of "ONLY INSTALL THIS IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, ALSO YOU HAVE TO INSTALL IT AND EVERY SINGLE SCRIPT YOU WANT MANUALLY, ALSO YOU'RE REQUIRED TO TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN THE ACTUAL loving CODE TO GET THIS WORKING RIGHT GET GUD CASUAL BROWSER SCRUBS." Additionally, the latest big update (for me at least) completely broke all video services (Youtube, Twitter, etc). The devs, again, blamed Google/Mozilla for this, said "who needs html5 video, flash should still be good enough for anyone", and when pressed on what will happen when Youtube ends legacy Flash support they just said "well maybe you outta think about taking steps to break THE MEDIA MONOPOLY now then, huh?  "The Pale Moon devs are infuriatingly up their own grognardy assholes, do not support them or try to use their crappy browser, it'll just give you a migraine.
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Feb 8, 2017 13:45
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Tab Mix Plus Thank you for typing this. Looked it up. it seems awesome. Going to install it tonight. I know I may be weird with preferring my tabs on the bottom. But I've been using firefox since 2010. back then it was pretty drat good. and I've always kept it since then. But lately it seems to be a bit slow when it consumes around 3GB of ram. (I have 16GB). But still I love having the tabs on the bottom. At work i'm using chrome with the tabs on top and it hasn't bothered me one bit. So it's not like I can't switch. It's just my preferred browser. If i just could get it be faster after it consumes so much ram, that would be swell.
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Feb 8, 2017 13:56
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All I know is everything Mozilla does is bad. If only they listened to ME, then Firefox would see a true Renaissance in adoption. I won't try to make my own browser, or even file bug reports on bugzilla lest I be proven wrong. That way I can still act smug, believing I have all the answers.
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Feb 9, 2017 13:46
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Well you're half right.
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Feb 9, 2017 13:58
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Klyith posted:Not at all just chrome users. It's the browser equivalent of the "desktop covered with icons" thing. yospos looks funny when this happens. also, this happen to me on windows exclusively. I have e10 forced on my gamebox and my lunix work laptop and it runs fine on the latter, so whatever it is, it's likely it'll be an easy fix for them.
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Feb 9, 2017 14:08
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The Merkinman posted:All I know is everything Mozilla does is bad. If only they listened to ME, then Firefox would see a true Renaissance in adoption. I won't try to make my own browser, or even file bug reports on bugzilla lest I be proven wrong. That way I can still act smug, believing I have all the answers. This but unironically. Except Firefox isn't going to see its market share come back because you cannot buy advertisement as good as the nags on google.com for Chrome and the nags inside Windows for edge. Plus Chrome does opt-out bundling with installers of other programs, which Mozilla won't do, and edge comes preinstalled on Windows, which Mozilla can't do. And the only bug report that could be filed, namely "don't cut over to webextensions," has already been suggested, ad nauseam, by the entire community. Extension developers with significant pull in the community, or as much as anyone can really have in a "browser community," have been left no options except to publicly abandon their work. A browser is so complicated and has to chase so many moving targets that only major tech companies can spend the resources to build them well. It's why there just isn't a good alternative to jump to, or this wouldn't really be an issue. And I don't have all the answers, but I do have a couple which I have supreme confidence in. I've already seen a browser kill itself by cutting features to chase Chrome. e: Frankly I don't even think it's going to be Opera levels of abandonment either. It's still probably going to be the least bad of the major browsers for power users, which it can only say because the bar for that is so low now, but in all likelihood I'll still be using it. I'll have lost some workflows and have to code more of my own replacements outside the browser as long as the Open With extension or functionality makes it through. Unlike Opera's features, which were built into the browser, Firefox users who installed addons went out of their way to get them so not as many made use of them. But I know there are bigger factors than raw performance at play, especially since Firefox isn't obviously worse than Chrome even with small numbers of tabs, and pissing off their most dedicated users isn't going to do much to help their market share. Maybe with disproportionate advertising spending, but I don't think Mozilla has the resources to pull that off. I expect a net loss of users, especially among those who had one singular killer addon that's no longer possible. Desuwa fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 08:25
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Desuwa posted:some on point words It's worth remembering how firefox got to be the dominant browser: netscape turned into an awful shitpile, and microsoft decided the only work they were gonna do on IE was trying to proprietary extensions to web standards. Firefox was good yes, but without the other two being actively terrible there would never have been that kind of movement by the general user base. Most people don't care about software and don't like changing it, they want to use the same thing as they used yesterday. So, firefox ain't gonna get back to #1 unless google screws the pooch in some huge way. Which just doesn't seem likely. Google monetizes the whole internet, it's in their best interest for users to have as good an interface to the web as possible. The only place where interests run counter is advertising. That could be a future wedge, but I wouldn't bet on it. Basically the question is, what is the purpose of Firefox? If the goal is to be the revenue source for the Mozilla Foundation to be the huge hundred-millions operation it is now, then obviously <10% market share is a slow death sentence. But if the goals are stuff the Mozilla mission statement is full of, open standards and web decentralization, Firefox is doing a fine job. It's the thing that keeps everyone else honest. And so the goal should be efficient use of coder time and serving the users they have, not yet another component being replaced with a all-new-from-scratch miracle. (Fresh new from-scratch engines are always blazing fast, because they don't have any of the exceptions and compatibility patches and bug fixes that made the old one slow.)
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Feb 10, 2017 14:08
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Klyith posted:It's worth remembering how firefox got to be the dominant browser: netscape turned into an awful shitpile, and microsoft decided the only work they were gonna do on IE was trying to proprietary extensions to web standards. That didn't happen, the IE thing. What actually happened was that Microsoft planned to only do new IE versions when a new Windows version came out, and then when Vista had to be delayed so was IE 7. And Firefox managed to reach a usable state with the later 1.5 versions and 2.0 before IE 7 could come out. Trying to do proprietary extensions was far more of a latter-day Netscape thing.
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Feb 10, 2017 16:57
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fishmech posted:That didn't happen, the IE thing. What actually happened was that Microsoft planned to only do new IE versions when a new Windows version came out [this changed due to Firefox].
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Feb 10, 2017 17:09
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The Merkinman posted:Let's hope Apple does the same with Safari hahahahaha That didn't change due to Firefox though? IE7 still came out with Vista. IE8 came out with Windows 7. IE10 came out with Windows 8 and IE11 with Windows 8.1. Then of course the Edge replacement for IE with Windows 10, which has gotten major updates onyl when Windows 10 gets major updates, like the "anniversary edition". The only IE release to not be directly tied to a new OS was IE9 and that was only a minor change from IE8, which was pretty much to signal people needed to leave XP.
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Feb 10, 2017 17:34
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fishmech posted:Trying to do proprietary extensions was far more of a latter-day Netscape thing. Anyways yes there was the vista delay thing for IE7, and also the DOJ & EU suits made them slow work down a ton in the 5-6 era. But it's not like IE7 was particularly great vs firefox either, so your "but actually" is pretty poo poo. The point was that MS dropped the ball and firefox picked it up. There's not much hope for a repeat where both google and ms poo poo the bed and everyone goes back to firefox. If nothing else, android phones will keep chrome relevant and push people vaguely in the google direction.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:38
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Klyith posted:what was activex then? Netscape was trying to do the same sort of thing with the NPAPI, which we were using for plugins in Firefox until very recently (well, Flash is still NPAPI but all the other ones are dead in current versions). Point is IE6 was perfectly fine when it came out and for quite a while afterwards. There was no better browser until IE6 had already been around for nearly 5 years, with bugfixed versions of Firefox 1.5 in early 2006 that finally surpassed IE6 in page rendering and standards-compliance. Opera had a bunch of nice features, but it also had a lot of weird rendering quirks and refusal to adhere to web standards. Earlier Firefox versions were far too crashy and buggy, and everything else was even worse. People mistakenly remember IE6 as worse than it really was, because certain other companies got to wedded to exactly its quirks in a way they haven't done for any version of any browser before or since, so people getting forced to use it even today in some cases.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:16
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Klyith posted:what was activex then? activex is an extension of com that enables you to site com-based controls within other applications. it's not specific to ie nor is ie even the biggest user of activex.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:52
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xamphear posted:Almost no one cares about making choices framed as "which of these products is better for my privacy." Facebook is worth a bajillion dollars and everyone has the app installed on their phones doing god knows what. No one cares. Only weirdos (of which I am one) are going to go, "Hmmm, I wonder if there's a browser as good as Chrome but without all the icky Google all over it." I've been using Vivaldi the past few months. Not as polished as Firefox but it's more customisable than Chrome and Opera. Would you give it a go?
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Feb 10, 2017 21:48
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I've been using Vivaldi the past few months. Not as polished as Firefox but it's more customisable than Chrome and Opera. Would you give it a go? Can it do Tree Style Tabs as well as Firefox does right now?
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Feb 10, 2017 22:05
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fishmech posted:That didn't change due to Firefox though? IE7 still came out with Vista. IE8 came out with Windows 7. IE10 came out with Windows 8 and IE11 with Windows 8.1
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Feb 10, 2017 23:55
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The Merkinman posted:IE 7 and 8 didn't require Vista and 7 respectively, though. They were available on other versions of Windows. That's what I thought was the change. IE6 came out on Windows 98/ME/NT 4.0/2000 as well. The tying of IE releases to Windows releases as far as timing, but not system requirements, started when IE 5.0 co-launched with Windows 98 SE which was a release available for Windows 3.x and Windows NT 3.x as well (to be followed with IE 5.5 releasing with Windows Me, although still compatible back to Windows 95). Before that, Microsoft kinda just released new IE versions as they became ready, with the expectation that few people would bother updating to them any time soon.
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Feb 11, 2017 00:09
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fishmech posted:Netscape was trying to do the same sort of thing with the NPAPI, which we were using for plugins in Firefox until very recently (well, Flash is still NPAPI but all the other ones are dead in current versions). I started using Firefox in the 0.6-0.7 days when it was still called Firebird. Wasn't crashy or buggy for me though, and it was already a huge experience improvement over the IE of the time. 
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Feb 11, 2017 01:03
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Phoenix Project users represent!
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Feb 11, 2017 01:16
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 Gonna be honest; I kinda miss it.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:43
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I've been using Vivaldi the past few months. Not as polished as Firefox but it's more customisable than Chrome and Opera. Would you give it a go? I've only used Vivaldi a little, but I like what I've seen.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:26
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Vivaldi might be good enough for me to use eventually, but the restrictions of Chromium addons suck so it's down to the developers to build a robust enough feature set to make up for it. At least it's customizable w/ CSS.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:28
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I remember using the ancient Mozilla Suite which included browser and email client, way before even Phoenix existed. Holy crap that was a long time ago.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:35
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When I was at university the plum-est web browsing machines were the SGI Indigo2 (where the heck is the ^2 symbol in unicode) X forwarding firefox from the linux servers. Of course they only had 10 Mbit NICs so the rendering speed wasn't as great as it could be...
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Feb 11, 2017 13:04
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~Coxy posted:When I was at university the plum-est web browsing machines were the SGI Indigo2 (where the heck is the ^2 symbol in unicode) X forwarding firefox from the linux servers. On my university we had Sun Ultra 30 and SGI O2 workstations. I preferred the O2, especially because they had Netscape Mail installed, but so did many others and they were often all in use. So I would log in to a Sun, ssh to one of the O2s and start Mail from there.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:00
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xamphear posted:Can it do Tree Style Tabs as well as Firefox does right now? I honestly don't know, I've used neither the Firefox extensions to do that, nor the built-in Vivaldi stuff. Sure it'll only take a few minutes to check it out.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:18
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~Coxy posted:(where the heck is the ^2 symbol in unicode) Here, copy and paste: ² Or manually make anything an exponent in bbcode. [super]2[/super] becomes: 2
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Feb 11, 2017 21:18
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Thanks. Inspecting that character, it's called SUPERSCRIPT TWO and not SQUARE or POWER or anything. And it's not in the Math Symbols block.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:14
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² is ALT+0178.
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Feb 12, 2017 02:34
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What's up with YouTube Centre lately? No changes for months and months, and now a new version every day for a week.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:43
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Gorilla Salad posted:What's up with YouTube Centre lately? No changes for months and months, and now a new version every day for a week. Looks like the maintainer accepted a couple big pull requests from other people and decided to fix a bunch of bugs while he was at it.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:25
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Upon going to Imgur, all of my tabs stopped loading what was on them, only displaying a loading symbol. I could not exit Firefox through the big red X, i had to click the X on all the tabs multiple times. Did that piece of poo poo website just overload firefox, or has it been overtaken by some virus?
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Feb 22, 2017 00:34
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spit on my clit posted:Upon going to Imgur, all of my tabs stopped loading what was on them, only displaying a loading symbol. I could not exit Firefox through the big red X, i had to click the X on all the tabs multiple times. Did that piece of poo poo website just overload firefox, or has it been overtaken by some virus? I've been having really weird poo poo happen with imgur sometimes, like when mousing over their dynamic dropdowns it produces a bunch of radiating crap that looks like busted GPU artifacts (my gpu is fine). I think their css is just hosed.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:35
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1. For some reason, youtube videos went back to autoplaying (as far as I know, that's the default youtube setting, no matter what browser of computer you're on), with ads. I have ublock and youtube center on (I also have ublock on chrome, doesn't help with ads there anymore either). Anything that can replace them? 2. Multilinks (right click and drag to open a bunch of tabs at once). Causes firefox to run very slow, and hang up whenever I right click. Tried to uninstall and install multilinks plus - exact same thing. Any add-ons that work? 3. For some reason, I can no longer kill firefox by ending the process once in task manager. The first kill just crashes all the tabs, and it takes a second to close it. Why?
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Feb 23, 2017 11:27
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