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Wrecked Angle
May 12, 2012

"JURASSIC PARK!"
haha star citizen. lol

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Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard
So have The Agents leaks already been falsified on reddit - again - because r/starcitizen proved that Agents leaks were like ~90% wrong in the past and 10 % were accidentally right guesses that everyone could have made who followed the SC desast.. I meant project for a while?

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

Tokamak posted:

Australia is like America, except there are almost no towns/cities between the east and west coasts. Aside from Houston Texas, Fargo North Dakota, and (desert) Emporia Kansas.

Cymelion lives in Emporia, and you can probably guess the internet isn't too great in the middle of nowhere :smith:

I thought he was Australian? I dunno maybe that was one of the others

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

He lives in the Australian equivalent of Emporia Kansas, surrounded by desert.

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

Tokamak posted:

He lives in the Australian equivalent of Emporia Kansas, surrounded by desert.

I don't get america analogies though

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016

Tokamak posted:

He lives in the Australian equivalent of Emporia Kansas, surrounded by desert.

Was it always a barren, peopleless, and lonely desert or did people move away when he moved in? :)

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo
I mean I'm sure your internet sucks more in the desert than at the coast, but I think your strategy of letting cable company cartels dictate your country's infrastructure planning is pretty dumb too

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I don't get america analogies though

Sorry, I just assumed you were american.

Sabreseven posted:

Was it always a barren, peopleless, and lonely desert or did people move away when he moved in? :)

It probably didn't help.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon
Star Citizen is a phenomenon of disparities. Joystick and MKB. PvP and PvE. Solo play and large groups. Players looked at the same thing and had opposite interpretations. Now it's people arguing over whether it's alive or dying.

I believe this will only end when people can finally agree on what SC is. Or more specifically what it was.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

ManofManyAliases posted:

i have it on good authority that there's supposed to be some sort of decent update to the network code by the time 2.6.2 drops. And, I don't think we'll see many more updates to 2.6.xxx until 3.0. Other than that, I'm thinking that they are still chugging away on intricate systems without divulging too much of those details to the general public. They've received ridicule enough for unveiling something pivotal too early, so outside of evocati, I cannot imagine they'll do it again.

How embarrassing, we showed our never before seen, novel tech?

Or are you talking about everything they try to do they shitcan because it isn't and never was feasible? Probably that. I'd probably hide about 90% of the project, then. Put it inside the evocati.

DapperDon
Sep 7, 2016

Sindai posted:

They missed the best part:

If you find yourself developing a language when you started developing a piece of software, something has gone horrendously wrong.

So let's pretend I do not understand game development or programming. Why is that a bad "horrendous" thing?

Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

Let's say you start building a boat. This is like growing the trees and making all your own tools from rock ore before you start.

They're probably just trumping some little parser up to sound cool though TBH.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

D_Smart posted:

Meanwhile, latest news over there where a small group of indies are slowly toiling away at a cheaply made massive game...



Can I code you up some atmospherics? How much will you pay?

edit:

D_Smart posted:

It will look better once we move to UE4 and have the benefit of HDR and PBR

Oh, nevermind, then.

Sillybones fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Feb 11, 2017

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

D_Smart posted:

Well...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5tan6n/better_unfasten_those_seat_belts/

[quote]
Considering how so much of our concept art makes heavy use of rectangular lights, we’ve started work on area lights. While this may sound simple, area lights are actually an active area of research for many game studios and are incredibly difficult to get right (both in terms of looks and performance).

No, they're not. They may be an active area of research, but in terms of getting them working in a game that is visually pleasing and performant, they are very much solved. CIG, you don't have to do anything new here. Just take the results of others and apply them. Make a game.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

DapperDon posted:

Why is that a bad "horrendous" thing?
It's like you need to put up a shelf, but instead of buying a box of screws you decide to build a lathe so you can turn out your own.

Sure, it can be done. But building a lathe is a lot more complicated than just putting up a shelf. You've added a shitload of work and a shitload of things that can go wrong for no discernible reason.

Personally I don't think they're doing anything of the sort, it's just more technical jargon to make idiot backers go starry eyed. They've got form for this kind of thing, see: their continual misuse of the term refactoring, or their playing up the fact that they're "serialising variables" (whoop de loving do).

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

DapperDon posted:

So let's pretend I do not understand game development or programming. Why is that a bad "horrendous" thing?

Spatial posted:

Let's say you start building a boat. This is like growing the trees and making all your own tools from rock ore before you start.

They're probably just trumping some little parser up to sound cool though TBH.

In addition, they’re building in a pretty horrible dependency on whatever people actually know this new language. It could be just this one guy who developed it. So what happens if he leaves or is lost for some other reason? You’re left with code that no-one understands and can maintain, and now you have to rebuild the whole thing from scratch. Alternatively, he can spend all his (and other developers') time, not on building and maintaining the system, but on teaching his newfangled language to to others to spread the knowledge and reduce the risk of it all blowing up.

They're not just growing their own trees and making tools — they're creating a new species of trees and making special orthopaedic foot-operated tools. And they’re doing this for what is probably one of the most critical systems in an MMO.

As someone said on the FDev forums: they have given the project a bus-factor of 1.

Tippis fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Feb 11, 2017

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

ewe2 posted:

...Sounds suspiciously like someone is justifying their paycheck with BS...

That is a good explanation for why anyone talented would still be working there. Getting the resources for and paid to do some pet project you never justified the time for.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

Tippis posted:

As someone said on the FDev forums: they have given the project a bus-factor of 1.
You mean "falling off a bike and breaking your wrist" factor?

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

tooterfish posted:

You mean "falling off a bike and breaking your wrist" factor?

Pretty much. But on something that actually matters.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

trucutru posted:

From the montly report:

The Oxygen, Breathing & Stamina systems have started being implemented and soon we will have players begin to carry their own oxygen supplies or risk turning blue in the face. The system should handle everything from how the oxygen tank delivers breathable air to the helmet, to how the player breathes said air and how his body converts that into actual usable stamina. At the same time, all actions are being converted to consume this stamina, so you will want to keep your character supplied with oxygen if you want them to be capable of performing various actions.

SelenicMartian posted:

"dialogue pipeline"

"We’ve also been prototyping AI Characters reacting to players bumping into them"

And this is just super:

"Part of the Cinematics team is currently in a sprint to push towards a “final” look and feel for the conversation system that is used for talks between the player and NPCs (which the S42 campaign features a lot of).

This includes topics like:

UI text placement and animation for dialogue choices

Solving issues of: If, how and when to slow a player down running towards an NPC.

How to make “gentle” collisions between physics capsules when the player violates personal space by getting too close.

How to adjust recorded performances and manipulate the actor’s Look or even Body pose to match for a changing player position. (we call that performance transformation)

Dynamic camera effects that kick in when the conversation is initialized both in a change of FOV and Depth of Field blur increasing.

We want our conversations to feel “filmic” while still allowing the player freedom. Invoking a “cinematic” feel first and foremost means changing the lens to values that are more akin to how a film camera would depict a character. The engines FOV traditionally is calculated with a vertical FOV value. The current in-game on-foot FOV is at 55 which is equivalent to an extreme wide angle lens of approximately ~13mm (using 35mm film equivalent ARRI master prime lenses as a comparison). That kind of lens is bordering on fisheye lens territory. If the player gets close to a character using this kind of FOV it distorts faces, so what we are doing is gradually changing the FOV over a certain time down to 30 which is equivalent to a ~25mm wide angle portrait lens. We are finding this is a nice compromise of the faces revealing all of the awesome scanned detail by appearing big on screen while still allowing for a sense of orientation in regards to the background (if player decides to move during a conversation)."

Also, making a new custom scripting language.

How can anyone see any of this and not have alarms going off? It's all crazy niche detail stuff that nobody will want to deal with after the second time they experience the immersion and fidelity. All the stuff quoted from SelenicMartian are details somebody making tools for a CG movie should be focused on, not a video game. If you start playing with dynamic fov, and dynamic depth of field, forget about VR sickness, they'll be making people sick on normal screens.

Dead project walking.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

lol @ "Diffusion"

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

You can always tell when a project is being developed by inexperienced or incompetent people - they honestly believe that every problem they face has to be solved from scratch.

99% of every problem you will encounter when developing something has already been encountered and solved by someone else. Most of them have been solved so many times that solving the problem is now a refined art.

Anyone who approaches a development problem in a video game by creating their own bespoke language is an imbecile.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

DapperDon posted:

So let's pretend I do not understand game development or programming. Why is that a bad "horrendous" thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinventing_the_wheel

I talk primarily in links.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

DapperDon posted:

So let's pretend I do not understand game development or programming. Why is that a bad "horrendous" thing?

Developing a real language is an academic activity. Coherent languages almost always come out of joint development with multiple universities and industry standards organizations, and have groups of people with Phds working on them for years.

You can create a simple language on your own, something that does simple parsing/scripting, but there's no point to do it for a commercial project as there almost certainly already exists something that can do the job better.

If it isn't a bold faced lie, their language is probably just a custom markup language, or some newly hired college grad has vastly overestimated their abilities.

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Sillybones posted:

That is a good explanation for why anyone talented would still be working there. Getting the resources for and paid to do some pet project you never justified the time for.

And it could also be, as other have noted, the result of using people who really don't know the territory at all and are just pulling this out of their arses to keep getting paid.

Or just the baffling with bullshit option, where the bullshit is flowing in so many directions internally and externally that a bullshit event horizon is dangerously close beyond which bullshit cannot be escaped and swallows all who come near it.

Star Citizen: supermassive bullshit black hole.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

trucutru posted:

From the montly report:


:downs:

Wow, and here I thought you just would have an oxygen bar that goes down to zero before you suffocate. No, they are modelling how the players breathe and how their bodies convert that air into stamina.

What a bunch of bullshit.

Also: "have started being implemented and soon..." Out in 2014/2015/2016/2017

Stuff like that is the worst, most archaic poo poo imaginable, I loving hate games that gimp you for no good reason. There's a reason that poo poo isn't in games much now.

DapperDon
Sep 7, 2016

Samizdata posted:

From the Reddit trenches they seem to be getting desperate. They are switching to the name calling/not listening/puppet master triple-reverse-with-quadruple-twist-and-plie troll level even faster than ever.

It amazes me how virulently they respond to my latest tack - "There would be no CIG without backers. You backers deserve respect from CIG. Stop giving them money (don't refund, just stop the pledges) until they give you real answers and productivity" or something like that. And I pretty much get called everything but a child of God. Well, I try that tack with backers that seem to have some little splash of reason left. People like Zecumbe, and that idiot 2IRRC. And then there are the sad cases like Angry Pacifist that seem to think they deserve the treatment they are getting. :sigh: I shall continue fighting the good fight, but at times I wonder about our chances at success until CIG flames out or pulls an ELE.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away
Still no MMO architecture for their MMO. Approaching 7 years in development?

Plural Abysss
Feb 25, 2016
Goddamn NOFX got old

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

I wonder what they will name their language?

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

Colostomy Bag posted:

lol @ "Diffusion"

you just dont understand game development.

http://i.imgur.com/HAdLsiU.mp4

Chin
Dec 12, 2005

GET LOST 2013
-RALPH
Chris in six months: "I'm tired of all of these questions, 'where's subsumption?' Subsumption is in the game, there have been NPC ships since 2.0 and shopkeeper NPCs since 2.3."

"The game changer we're working on now is Perspicacitationality which will be a big part of 2.7."

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016

Colostomy Bag posted:

I wonder what they will name their language?

Retardese 2pointParp

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Fail++

Dial A For Awesome
May 23, 2009

Colostomy Bag posted:

I wonder what they will name their language?

Flinglish

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Colostomy Bag posted:

I wonder what they will name their language?

Leyitespiewck

Dooguk
Oct 11, 2016

Pillbug

Colostomy Bag posted:

I wonder what they will name their language?

Handwavese.

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016

Colostomy Bag posted:

I wonder what they will name their language?

What about :

DosBux

EmptyShell (Much like Sandi's soul)

C-unt++

Lavascript (Archered by Java obviously)

erAs (Arse in dyslexic)

Parpy On Rails (Archered by Ruby)

Dullphi

Etc.

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Erenthal
Jan 1, 2008

A relaxing walk in the woods
Grimey Drawer
poo poo

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