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CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

I'M SURPRISE GUEST THE GREAT KHALI!

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SHALASHASKA HAWKE
Nov 10, 2016

No child soldier in poverty by 1990
I'm Regular Stormy

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

SLASHER HAWKE posted:

I'm Regular Stormy

show them how serious WE are

Max
Nov 30, 2002

I want them to include Asuka in that, just because.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


CCKeane posted:

I'M SURPRISE GUEST THE GREAT KHALI!

If Great Khali interferes, you will win a fabulous prize

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

by Fluffdaddy
Not talking about ongoing games but even if you aren't playing you should give Paupers of Podlima a read. Good poo poo.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply

chaoslord posted:

If Great Khali interferes, you will win a fabulous prize

I'll TAKE IT

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Got some extra copies of games, and I'm procrastinating:
PM me with the game name and an e-mail address and it's yours.

King Arthur's Gold x2
Rust
Talisman: Prologue
Chroma Squad
Satellite Reign
Her Story
2064: Read Only Memories
Shadowrun: Dragonfall Director's Cut
Walking Dead 500 Days/S1/S2
Magicka
Magicka 2
The Wolf Among Us
I got a copy of Her Story and played it and let me tell you how MAD I AM ABOUT self described "gamers" who hate to explore, experience or think about games. Like what the hell is the point? Why are there so many people out there who think of themselves like gamers but don't even seem to like games at a broader level?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

I got a copy of Her Story and played it and let me tell you how MAD I AM ABOUT self described "gamers" who hate to explore, experience or think about games. Like what the hell is the point? Why are there so many people out there who think of themselves like gamers but don't even seem to like games at a broader level?

Because games, like everything else in our culture, have become politicized.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

I mean that is true to some extent.

I think some people are also just curmudgeons

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

I also hate people being like "It's just an interactive movie, not a game, don't waste your money"

yeah bro it's 5 loving dollars, It costs like 2-3 times as much to see a movie these days. And it's interactive, you know, the key part that makes something a game?

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=
it has HER in the title, loving SJWs ruining the sanctity of gaming with their feminine perspective

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Poque posted:

it has HER in the title, loving SJWs ruining the sanctity of gaming with their feminine perspective

I really want to believe that's not it, but I guess it is?

It just bothers me because they actually put some thought into laying out a non linear story with puzzles and non lateral thinking using a good blend of mechanics and narrative to achieve their goal and it was very reasonably priced, but a lot of the criticism is like "what a ripoff for a fake rear end game that could have just been a series of youtube videos"

E: Opinion background - I didn't really like Firewatch and I thought Gone Home was very good but a bit overpriced at default. Stanley Parable was great, Beginner's guide was okay (although of all of these, Beginner's guide was the least interactive, and I don't care for that)

Jump King fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 11, 2017

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

It seems a valid criticism to suggest that a different medium would be better suited for a certain story

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

For example, I would rather see FIFA 17 as a slot machine, given its insistence on random rubber banding

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Jonathan Fisk posted:

It seems a valid criticism to suggest that a different medium would be better suited for a certain story

The criticism in abstract is fine, but applied to this context it doesn't make sense, as the medium is fairly essential to the way the story is experienced and is almost entirely the point.

A wise man was told me something like video games are inherently more engaging than movies because the interactivity gives you an agency that movies don't.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

If there's actual agency, sure. If you're getting the same experience as watching the intro to skyrim or chilling on the pirates of the Caribbean ride with the restraint bar not functioning I'd say it's gotta step up the game

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

her story is goty 2015, easy.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Is this one you own on psn

Diqnol
May 10, 2010

I prefer games that are challenging to those that aren't and I don't think that is a bad thing.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

coming in with "if the facts were entirely different, and her story didn't absolutely need to be a video game to work, maybe there'd be an argument here!" is particularly weak contrarianism a

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

It's not contrarian

Firewatch had a good story but failed as a game

It was basically press x to have story


The film adaptation will fix this I'm sure

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

I was holding my phone and my hand slip and auto correct tossed out ## what have you done mafia

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

A Winner is you!
Hey sorry to everyone whose games I'm in I got super busy this weekend.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

Quidthulhu posted:

I was holding my phone and my hand slip and auto correct tossed out ## what have you done mafia

I've been discording in my sleep as a like side effect of whatever, and I say some weird as gently caress poo poo all while apparently repeatedly dropping my phone on my face but soldiering on

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back

peramene posted:

I've been discording in my sleep as a like side effect of whatever, and I say some weird as gently caress poo poo all while apparently repeatedly dropping my phone on my face but soldiering on

One of my favorite things I've ever done

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Diqnol posted:

I prefer games that are challenging to those that aren't and I don't think that is a bad thing.

That's fair. I wasn't saying people couldn't like the game in question, just that most criticisms of it I was reading weren't really applicable. A lot of people seem to think it wasn't a game at all even, or that the format wasn't important to the story, or that the mechanics were weak or something.

Jonathan Fisk posted:

Firewatch had a good story but failed as a game

It was basically press x to have story
:agreed:


I think this kind of dividing line is interesting given that we have a lot of walking simulators out right now where the principle interaction is moving from place to place to see more story, but we're also seeing more criticism directed towards narratives in more traditional games where you're essentially playing out a role in a movie and there's not much gained from game interaction. Horror games are particularly susceptible to these sort of drive through plots with a lot of cut scenes or quick time events where the same stuff happens regardless of what you do.

E:
I think Her Story is interesting in that even though you only make one choice that has an impact on the narrative, it is one of the most free games I've ever seen in how you explore that narrative. I find it weird that people call it limiting just because of how uniquely you're able to access the story and interact with it along such free lines. It's one of the least limiting games ever in that sense and I really appreciate the simple, but creative concepts and mechanics that allowed that to work.

Jump King fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 11, 2017

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

MMM Whatchya Say posted:



I think this kind of dividing line is interesting given that we have a lot of walking simulators out right now where the principle interaction is moving from place to place to see more story, but we're also seeing more criticism directed towards narratives in more traditional games where you're essentially playing out a role in a movie and there's not much gained from game interaction. Horror games are particularly susceptible to these sort of drive through plots with a lot of cut scenes or quick time events where the same stuff happens regardless of what you do.

I feel that's more forgivable. RE4 is more on-rails than Ethan Carter, for example, but I'd never consider the former a worse game for it.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

most video games dont have interesting gameplay but actively waste time. a walking simulator is fine unless there is not a competent story (skyrim). in something like firewatch i found that without the game constantly telling me what to do, i ended up just doing weird things for funsies. like hauling books and weird things i found back to the tower.

the other thing about a [game] where you control the character is that, you actually have to move them from place to place. in firewatch the time spent walking provided a space to reflect, analyze, and theorize about what was happening at any given point, that i wouldnt have gotten in like, a movie or a cartoon unless i kept turning it off before it switched to the next scene

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Jonathan Fisk posted:

I feel that's more forgivable. .

Just because something is forgivable doesn't mean it's not open to criticism! I'm also not trying to condemn rail roaded plotlines, because I think every narrative in a video game is going to be pre determined to some extent. I mean, I'm praising Her Story for it's narrative when it's literally the same 300 videos that tell the same story every time, with no alternate courses or anything.

I think it's really about how effectively video games get their narrative across and how being interactive helps those.

Firewatch for example, is a beautiful game, and maybe the best part about it being a video game is the immersion of being able to explore the wilderness. But, that doesn't add a whole lot to the narrative that is largely single track, with very few distractions. I think that's made worse by the game sort of dancing around like there are meaningful decisions you can make or additional things to discover, when there aren't really. I get the reason why they feel this story needs to be told as a video game, but in the end I don't think it does the best job of it.

Gone Home does it much more effectively by allowing you to engage with things on the level that you want to, and while there is a main story you're blasted through in a fairly obvious way, there's a lot more you can gain if you're looking for it. If Gone Home only had the audio logs, it would basically have the same problem Firewatch does imo.

Looking at games that aren't walking simulators, I think a game tying it's narrative to it's mechanics is really sublime, even if the stories are always linear or whatever.

Like the Portal games, they have some of the most linear structure in the world, to the point that they're literally just conditioning the player to complete a puzzle to receive a reward in the form of a nugget of story. It works with the themes though, and the story is massively improved by that and the rare, yet effective environmental set pieces.

Bioshock also does a great job of this, with the first game's famous twist relying heavily on your participation in the game to be effective, even though it does have some of that ~video game stuff where it's presenting you different options that aren't interesting or don't matter. (hm.... do you want to kill the sisters or not? if you kill em all the ending narration will be slightly angrier)

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=
help i'm trapped

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

GulagDolls posted:

most video games dont have interesting gameplay but actively waste time

This is definitely true, which is why I think that the mechanics should tie into the game if they're there. Walking simulators are an interesting phenomena because it's basically the admission that parts of gameplay we consider standard aren't strictly necessary and are maybe even bog things down. Gone Home would be a strictly worse game if you had to like, solve a puzzle each time you opened a door.

Most games (with a narrative) have basically some version of a [Do Bullshit -> Find more story] loop. Generally we regard how good the bullshit is as to how good the game is. Portal is a good one because all the puzzles themselves are fun, and if you weren't doing them the story would be less effective. Walking simulators replace the bullshit with walking, which is still bullshit, just usually less tedious (unless they've hosed up). Lots of people don't like this because they've straight up reduced the difficulty of a game to 0 to allow you to continue to go through the story at an even pace.

What I find really interesting about Her Story is that they've almost entirely taken out the do bullshit part, so you're just finding story. The process for finding it is still an obstacle, but it's not linear or time consuming. In some way it's sort of the bizarro version of walking simulator.

GulagDolls posted:

the other thing about a [game] where you control the character is that, you actually have to move them from place to place. in firewatch the time spent walking provided a space to reflect, analyze, and theorize about what was happening at any given point, that i wouldnt have gotten in like, a movie or a cartoon unless i kept turning it off before it switched to the next scene

I do this all the time, but people on here have told me it's weird before

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.
Holy poo poo. How does it compare to harvest moon?

SHALASHASKA HAWKE
Nov 10, 2016

No child soldier in poverty by 1990
the best plotlines are in bebe's kids

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Moatillata posted:

Holy poo poo. How does it compare to harvest moon?

It's the best harvest moon game

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

Poque posted:

It's the best harvest moon game

I'm gonna get it on steam today and find out about the char somber said I was

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

GulagDolls posted:

most video games dont have interesting gameplay but actively waste time. a walking simulator is fine unless there is not a competent story (skyrim). in something like firewatch i found that without the game constantly telling me what to do, i ended up just doing weird things for funsies. like hauling books and weird things i found back to the tower.

the other thing about a [game] where you control the character is that, you actually have to move them from place to place. in firewatch the time spent walking provided a space to reflect, analyze, and theorize about what was happening at any given point, that i wouldnt have gotten in like, a movie or a cartoon unless i kept turning it off before it switched to the next scene

That's only because films can't go on for 8 hours or w/e. In serialized fiction, be it written or filmed, you are allowed that time to reflect irl

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

Just because something is forgivable doesn't mean it's not open to criticism! I'm also not trying to condemn rail roaded plotlines, because I think every narrative in a video game is going to be pre determined to some extent. I mean, I'm praising Her Story for it's narrative when it's literally the same 300 videos that tell the same story every time, with no alternate courses or anything.

...

The distinctions and draw for these games must be in their gameplay, then, unless we're looking at stories that don't end or are so minimal/diverse that it can hardly be considered a "plot"

I personally don't consider the actual gameplay of walking simulators, etc. worth writing home about. I'd rather walk through the park and read the text on my phone.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Poque posted:

It's the best harvest moon game

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now

Moatillata posted:

Holy poo poo. How does it compare to harvest moon?

the creator said harvest moon 64 was the last good harvest moon. it's really good, even considering that video games are bad.

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Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

I mean magical melody exists but whatever

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