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CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


I started going through my Tull-read audiobooks again (for, like, the fifth time) and man, I forgot just how gross Mrs. Williams is.

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ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

I started going through my Tull-read audiobooks again (for, like, the fifth time) and man, I forgot just how gross Mrs. Williams is.

Ditto, and ditto (some, like Mauritius Command, I've easily been through a dozen times). Any part in particular you're referencing?

CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


ItalicSquirrels posted:

Ditto, and ditto (some, like Mauritius Command, I've easily been through a dozen times). Any part in particular you're referencing?

Yeah, I just started Desolation Island and I forgot how much I enjoyed this one.

As for the Mrs. Williams thing, nothing in particular, she's just so gross and manipulative. I love when Stephen finally tells her that if she doesn't stop loving with Brigid that he'll have the law down on her head in a heartbeat later in the series. It's sooooooooooooo satisfying.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

I feel like I have just started "The Surgeon's Mate" but I'm actially halfway through it. I read the scene where the snooty Senior Post Captain's wife is doing her best to insult Stephen for being a lowly surgeon, telling him that she understands that surgeons in other navies are tasked with shaving the captain, and he ruefully tells her how much worse the British navy is and laments having to shine Aubrey's boots.

O'Brien has a talent for setting up pretty Georgian scenes and then slipping in icredibly funny, dry humor that takes me by surprise every time.

Edit: also, Stephen's clinical dispatching of the French operatives towards the end of "Fortune" was pretty :stare:-worthy

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Professor Shark posted:

Edit: also, Stephen's clinical dispatching of the French operatives towards the end of "Fortune" was pretty :stare:-worthy

Stephen can be extremely ruthless. After Jack has seen what he did there, he goes out of his way to dissuade people, who want to go out with Stephen from it. One of the best scenes of Stephen losing his countenance is after the dinner in New South Wales in "The Nutmeg of Consolidation".

Fire Safety Doug
Sep 3, 2006

99 % caffeine free is 99 % not my kinda thing
Not sure if I'm imagining it, but on my latest re-read I felt that O'Brian really hits his stride humour-wise in The Surgeon's Mate. There's just so many subtly hilarious moments and exchanges.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

Decius posted:

Stephen can be extremely ruthless. After Jack has seen what he did there, he goes out of his way to dissuade people, who want to go out with Stephen from it. One of the best scenes of Stephen losing his countenance is after the dinner in New South Wales in "The Nutmeg of Consolidation".

It actually starts in Surprise, when Stephen fights his duel at the end. Jack tries everything he can (within social norms) to keep the duel from happening, because he knows that at least the other guy will get killed. He flat out says, "My man is deadly". This is all after he sees Stephen practicing sword dueling in Post Captain with the Marine lieutenant before shooting the pips out of a playing card at ten paces (no mean feat with a smoothbored pistol).

Fire Safety Doug posted:

Not sure if I'm imagining it, but on my latest re-read I felt that O'Brian really hits his stride humour-wise in The Surgeon's Mate. There's just so many subtly hilarious moments and exchanges.

My favorite's from Ionian Mission:
'You and Martin may say what you like,' said Jack, but there are two ends to every pudding.'
'I should be the last to deny it,' said Stephen. 'If a pudding starts, clearly it must end; the human mind is incapable of grasping infinity, and an endless pudding passes our conception.'

Professor Shark posted:

Edit: also, Stephen's clinical dispatching of the French operatives towards the end of "Fortune" was pretty :stare:-worthy

To be fair, even Stephen comments on the :stare:-worthiness of it, or at least the results.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Decius posted:

Stephen can be extremely ruthless. After Jack has seen what he did there, he goes out of his way to dissuade people, who want to go out with Stephen from it. One of the best scenes of Stephen losing his countenance is after the dinner in New South Wales in "The Nutmeg of Consolidation".

That's one of my favorite scenes. "nah, I'm cool now that I've stabbed him." "ok, but let's get on the ship and gtfo anyway"


ItalicSquirrels posted:

It actually starts in Surprise, when Stephen fights his duel at the end. Jack tries everything he can (within social norms) to keep the duel from happening, because he knows that at least the other guy will get killed. He flat out says, "My man is deadly". This is all after he sees Stephen practicing sword dueling in Post Captain with the Marine lieutenant before shooting the pips out of a playing card at ten paces (no mean feat with a smoothbored pistol).


My favorite's from Ionian Mission:
'You and Martin may say what you like,' said Jack, but there are two ends to every pudding.'
'I should be the last to deny it,' said Stephen. 'If a pudding starts, clearly it must end; the human mind is incapable of grasping infinity, and an endless pudding passes our conception.'


To be fair, even Stephen comments on the :stare:-worthiness of it, or at least the results.

RIP Canning. Dude had it coming though.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

In which book to Stephen's hands get all messed up?

bondetamp
Aug 8, 2011

Could you have been born, Richardson? And not egg-hatched as I've always assumed? Did your mother hover over you, snaggle-toothed and doting as you now hover over me?
Post Captain

The Merry Marauder
Apr 4, 2009

"But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."
HMS Surprise. The rescue is the first bit of that book.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.



builds character posted:

RIP Canning. Dude had it coming though.
Really not sure that he did. Among (many) other things, he really has to play the proper gentleman to the jealous local crowd, what with being Jewish and all.

oldman
Dec 15, 2003
grumpy
Punk struck Stephen a blow. Can't let a blow stand.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Xander77 posted:

Really not sure that he did. Among (many) other things, he really has to play the proper gentleman to the jealous local crowd, what with being Jewish and all.

There's a strong argument that both Stephen and Canning deserved better than Diana. Not because she was a "fallen woman" but because she treated them all horribly.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Diana and Stephen were a match in the worst way. Both intelligent and sensitive people afflicted by personal tragedy early in life and crippled by low self-esteem.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Xander77 posted:

Really not sure that he did. Among (many) other things, he really has to play the proper gentleman to the jealous local crowd, what with being Jewish and all.

Taking advantage of a helpless widow instead of making an honest woman of her? Trying to kill poor, helpless Stephen (such a poor shot that he can't even not hit what he isn't aiming at, to say nothing of his ability to climb aboard a ship without a bosun's chair). And then, worst of all, trying to steal Captain Aubrey from his Majesty's service by offering him a letter of marque. You're right. He deserved far worse.

Arglebargle III posted:

Diana and Stephen were a match in the worst way. Both intelligent and sensitive people afflicted by personal tragedy early in life and crippled by low self-esteem.

There are some nice moments too though. Like when they're married and he's talking to her in bed.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

There's a strong argument that both Stephen and Canning deserved better than Diana. Not because she was a "fallen woman" but because she treated them all horribly.

Um, did you not see how hot she was and how one was a Jew and the other a bastard papist?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
The Jew and the bastard papist were both absurdly rich, though, and the bastard was bastard (Irish) nobility.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


I though the nobility was on his Catalonian side?

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Then how did he get all those Fitzpatrick cousins?

Huggybear
Jun 17, 2005

I got the jimjams

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Yeah, I just started Desolation Island and I forgot how much I enjoyed this one.

As for the Mrs. Williams thing, nothing in particular, she's just so gross and manipulative. I love when Stephen finally tells her that if she doesn't stop loving with Brigid that he'll have the law down on her head in a heartbeat later in the series. It's sooooooooooooo satisfying.

She is the worst, and by that I mean the best, because O'Brian creates this snappish, shrewish, churlish, deeply stupid, ignorant presumptuous and deeply classist/prejudiced old woman that everyone must tolerate because she is family and they are landowning, Parliamentarian-class Navy and British, and thus must remain stoic calm and superior. Given this catch 22, O'Brian can have her do any horrible thing he wishes (he must have found this amusing), and only Stephen gets to put her in her place, although the way Stephen talks about her to other people is hilarious also.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The Jew and the bastard papist were both absurdly rich, though, and the bastard was bastard (Irish) nobility.

Absurdly rich is even an understatement for Stephen, at least after his inheritance. In today's money the gold alone he has transported to Spain after the legal troubles comes to about 300 million dollar. Probably worth a lot more when gold was the base of all money and really hard to come by during wartime.
But even before he should have been worth not short of 100,000 pounds, considering how much money Aubrey made (and lost), and he was there with his Surgeon's share, getting money, but hardly spending any.

Decius fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Feb 17, 2017

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

It probably all went to castle repairs.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Galaga Galaxian posted:

I though the nobility was on his Catalonian side?

Both sides. His Irish cousin Edward that he refers to from the revolution is the fifth son of a Duke. It's left to the reader as to which son of the Duke Stephen is descended from but it would have to be one of the older ones since he was of an age with Edward.

Its not clear which family on his mothers side he's related to but they are obviously wealthy and influential.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

builds character posted:

There are some nice moments too though. Like when they're married and he's talking to her in bed.

Yeah I think that scene is when he realized how much his drug addiction interfered with his attempts to court Diana over the years. Just a really nice couple.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

I started going through the Patrick Tull audio books again on a long car trip. Spoiler alert: it's really good.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Arglebargle III posted:

I started going through the Patrick Tull audio books again on a long car trip. Spoiler alert: it's really good.

Same! Just finished the Far side of the world.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Huggybear posted:

... although the way Stephen talks about her to other people is hilarious also.

What's the quote? From memory it's something like "a deeply grasping shrewish lickpenny." I remember "lickpenny" in particular. It's evocative as all hell.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Notahippie posted:

What's the quote? From memory it's something like "a deeply grasping shrewish lickpenny." I remember "lickpenny" in particular. It's evocative as all hell.

a deeply stupid, griping, illiberal, avid, tenacious, pinchfist lickpenny, a sordid lickpenny and a shrew

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Oh my God the scene in Post-Captain when Diana invites Stephen into her bedroom to look at butterflies or whatever is so painful. We're seeing the scene through his internal monologue and he never seems to notice that she's propositioning him. Repeatedly. Their whole romance is so painful. She's throwing out hints left and right and clearly lonely and unhappy. Stephen is too involved in his own morose thoughts about the Diana in his head to notice that the actual Diana in front of him is practically throwing herself at him. Then he gets confused and wounded when she's mean to him the next time they meet. He's so conscious of the difference of Diana the mental construct and Diana the actual person in an abstract sense, because he's a sharp study of character in the abstract, but he never seems able to connect his own actions to Diana's behavior.

They go through this cycle where each keeps trying to open up to the other and then gets rejected, but both of them keep making excuses to meet in private, like where the hell are you going with this Stephen?! Diana straight up asks him what his intentions are and he won't really give a definite answer, but he keeps showing up as more than a friend without actually proposing any sort of relationship. Sophie finally tells him to propose marriage and that she would accept but he's too much of a sadbrains to do it and she finally gives up on him for a loveless series of affairs. They go through exactly the same thing near the end of the novel where Stephen tells Sophie to run after Jack and propose marriage, and Sophie works up the courage to do it where Stephen didn't. Stephen is so goddamn dumb for a smart guy.

What do you think the unnamed love affair in Ireland was? Stephen's clearly depressed in Master and Commander and occasionally his internal monologue will reference an attachment in Ireland that seems too painful for him to even think about. He also tells Sophie that long engagements never work out and outlines a series of tragedies inherent to long engagements (so he says) that seem suspiciously precise.

Do you think he was engaged while in school in Dublin, and the Rising somehow threw a wrench in the works and they ended up parting unhappily?

These books are so good.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
When the crew hears that they are protected from pressing:

Jack's mind was still too full of Stephen's paper and its possible implications to take much notice of the din, and he hurried below. But scarcely was his file in its proper place before a far greater hullaballoo broke out: as the Viper filled and gathered way all the men from Shelmerston and all those Surprises who were deserters raced up into the weather shrouds, facing the cutter. The yeoman of the sheets called out 'One, two, three,' and they all bellowed 'Hoo, hoo, hoo' and slapped their backsides in unison, laughing like maniacs. 'Belay there,' roared Jack in a Cape Horn voice. 'Goddamned pack of mooncalves - is this a bawdy-house? The next man to slap his arse will have it flogged off him.'

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

builds character posted:

a deeply stupid, griping, illiberal, avid, tenacious, pinchfist lickpenny, a sordid lickpenny and a shrew

That's the one. drat, it's even harsher than I remembered.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Arglebargle III posted:

Oh my God the scene in Post-Captain when Diana invites Stephen into her bedroom to look at butterflies or whatever is so painful. We're seeing the scene through his internal monologue and he never seems to notice that she's propositioning him. Repeatedly. Their whole romance is so painful. She's throwing out hints left and right and clearly lonely and unhappy. Stephen is too involved in his own morose thoughts about the Diana in his head to notice that the actual Diana in front of him is practically throwing herself at him. Then he gets confused and wounded when she's mean to him the next time they meet. He's so conscious of the difference of Diana the mental construct and Diana the actual person in an abstract sense, because he's a sharp study of character in the abstract, but he never seems able to connect his own actions to Diana's behavior.

That's true, but Diana is also hot and cold - at the ball early in their relationship (in Post Captain?), he's gearing up to declare his affection and she shuts him down completely and intentionally. Stephen is proud enough that it has to be hard to come back from that and try again, and also unsure enough about her like you said that I always felt that he was cued to assume that her behavior wasn't as meaningful as it was.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

I'm not sure if she's trying to shut him down or make him jealous at the ball, but either way it backfires spectacularly.

Diana is definitely conflicted about the relationship but so is Stephen, is the point I was trying to make. They both try to break it off and both make overtures but they're never on the same wavelength in Post Captain. I get the sense one reason Diana thinks of Stephen as so exceptional is that the tricks she uses on other men -- we see her internal monologue with Babbington and she's quite manipulative -- never work right on Stephen. So I think she's a little baffled by Stephen's clumsy advances and apt to do inappropriate things.

They're too alike in a lot of ways; both sensitive, prideful, brooding, intelligent, indecisive, and inclined to self-destruction.

I think the two pairs are kind of foils: both Jack and Sophie and Stephen and Diana are similar people, but with Jack and Sophie the traits they share make them suitable for each other while Stephen and Diana get along like cats in a bag.

Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jun 16, 2017

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

Arglebargle III posted:

Oh my God the scene in Post-Captain when Diana invites Stephen into her bedroom to look at butterflies or whatever is so painful. We're seeing the scene through his internal monologue and he never seems to notice that she's propositioning him. Repeatedly. Their whole romance is so painful. She's throwing out hints left and right and clearly lonely and unhappy. Stephen is too involved in his own morose thoughts about the Diana in his head to notice that the actual Diana in front of him is practically throwing herself at him. Then he gets confused and wounded when she's mean to him the next time they meet. He's so conscious of the difference of Diana the mental construct and Diana the actual person in an abstract sense, because he's a sharp study of character in the abstract, but he never seems able to connect his own actions to Diana's behavior.

Stephen is so goddamn dumb for a smart guy.

...gently caress. I always read that as Diana treating him like she said he was, a great friend but no more and Stephen respecting that (but obviously wishing for more). Now I'm rethinking that whole thing. Dammit.

quote:

What do you think the unnamed love affair in Ireland was? Stephen's clearly depressed in Master and Commander and occasionally his internal monologue will reference an attachment in Ireland that seems too painful for him to even think about. He also tells Sophie that long engagements never work out and outlines a series of tragedies inherent to long engagements (so he says) that seem suspiciously precise.

Do you think he was engaged while in school in Dublin, and the Rising somehow threw a wrench in the works and they ended up parting unhappily?

Her name was Mona, and I've always taken it to be that she died. It wasn't unknown for people to die young, and if Stephen were her attending physician (which he'd of course do, or at least consult) her death would weigh especially heavy on him, just like the young man at the start of Desolation Island.

quote:

These books are so good.

Hear him! Hear him!

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

ItalicSquirrels posted:

...gently caress. I always read that as Diana treating him like she said he was, a great friend but no more and Stephen respecting that (but obviously wishing for more). Now I'm rethinking that whole thing. Dammit.

Ironically, Diana concludes the same thing about Stephen and that's why, coupled with her lack of self - esteem, she convinces herself that Stephen is trying to rescue her from ignominy with his offer of marriage rather than genuinely wanting a relationship. They would have cleared up that misunderstanding on the way home from India on the Surprise had Jack not very rudely refused to carry her.

Jack is sort of responsible for the six year gap between Stephen proposing to and marrying Diana but you can understand his reason. Jack's refusal to take her after the duel must have contributed to her conviction that she wasn't good enough for Stephen.

Or is it more like nine years between HMS Surprise and The Surgeon's Mate?

Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 20, 2017

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Arglebargle III posted:

Ironically, Diana concludes the same thing about Stephen and that's why, coupled with her lack of self - esteem, she convinces herself that Stephen is trying to rescue her from ignominy with his offer of marriage rather than genuinely wanting a relationship. They would have cleared up that misunderstanding on the way home from India on the Surprise had Jack not very rudely refused to carry her.

Jack is sort of responsible for the six year gap between Stephen proposing to and marrying Diana but you can understand his reason. Jack's refusal to take her after the duel must have contributed to her conviction that she wasn't good enough for Stephen.

Or is it more like nine years between HMS Surprise and The Surgeon's Mate?

If I recall correctly, there were at least 1814a, 1814b, and 1814c in addition to normal years.

E: I didn't recall correctly. You were right, there were nine years between HMS Surprise (1804) and The Surgeon's Mate (1813), but 1813 was the timeloop year:

From The Surgeon's Mate to The Commodore (11 books)

1808: British spy James Robertson persuades the Marquis de la Romana and 15,000 Spanish troops stationed in the Baltic to defect. Admiral Keats transports them back to Spain to fight against Napoleon.
1813 - 1814: Cruise of the USS Essex in the Pacific
1814: Lord Cochrane convicted of Stock Exchange fraud, and dismissed from the Royal Navy.
1817: HMS Alceste, carrying the diplomatic mission of Lord Amherst, runs aground in the Banka Strait.

These books all take place in the repeating year of 1813.


From: http://www.hmssurprise.org/aubrey-maturin-chronology

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Jun 21, 2017

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Am I right in thinking that Jack missed his baronetcy for the Mauritius but was rewarded with the Bath?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Arglebargle III posted:

Am I right in thinking that Jack missed his baronetcy for the Mauritius but was rewarded with the Bath?

Yes. And iirc the reason for not getting the title was his father. Like it usually was.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

I thought it was because Bertie swooped in and got the baronetcy for the campaign.

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jerman999
Apr 26, 2006

This is a lex imperfecta
The Bath was always strange to me, because it was never mentioned it again and Jack doesn't appear to wear the ribbon when he is in full dress. And no one calls him Sir. Maybe he is modest?

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