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I'm thinking more about something like as you get higher level materials that unlock better furnaces/steel, you also unlock better boilers that eat vastly smaller amounts of fuel per energy produced. Call them superheating boilers or whatever. There's no point in putting silly micromanagement into solar power imo, it works like it's supposed to right now. I'm not asking for a solar nerf either, you already need huge fields of it for megafactories, but rather upgrades to the basic steam, so it doesn't feel like I'm cutting against the grain even harder than I actually am for using it. I guess I'll just make a mod for it if nothing like that happens, it shouldn't be too hard.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:49
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Solars are fine, it's accumulators that's the problem. Now I'm wondering what it would be like if instead of accumulators there were electric boilers so you'd have to store solar energy in the form of boiled water in tanks, then feed that back into the steam engines. Would require some fancy circuitry and pumps to not make stupid loops (or perpetual motion machines).
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Feb 21, 2017 04:34
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Hell, solar by steam would be a lot cooler and better. Make the only energy producer the standard steam generator (or perhaps with upgraded versions) but make it so that solar panels are heating panels not the kind that directly convert sunlight to electricity. Now instead of producing free *power* you're just producing free *steam*. Now you have to design your solar plants around steam instead of making gigantic parking lots of glass panels. Ideally though the steam generator would get some sort of upgrade. And besides, the nuclear setup seems to be just another form of tea-kettle anyways. Why not make your entire base run on steam?
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Feb 21, 2017 06:09
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Truga posted:I'm thinking more about something like as you get higher level materials that unlock better furnaces/steel, you also unlock better boilers that eat vastly smaller amounts of fuel per energy produced. Call them superheating boilers or whatever. Exactly. In my megafactory it is SUCH a pain in the rear end to add power, i literally have every bit of land under human control dedicated to just holding solar panels, since it gives such little power per unit area. If nuclear allows me the same power output but uses a fraction of that land, it's gonna be legitimately useful.
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Feb 21, 2017 06:48
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Some pollution facts I discovered after a good bit of wiki and spreadsheeting: - Beacons produce no pollution despite using energy, so if their energy source is entirely "free" (solar), then they can function as permanent upgrades. - With enough accumulators, it takes ~11.5 solars to provide enough power for a beacon continuously. - Pollution comes from assembly machines and other objects at a set rate per second running, multiplied by energy used. This means that speed on its own has an implied pollution reduction. Speed modules are counterbalanced by an energy penalty, usually making them net pollution increasing. - If you combine speed modules with efficiency modules (which you can also do using "free" beacons), you can get both a maximally efficient assembler and a speed boost. Doing so lets you get considerably less pollution per unit. - If you're not using beacons, 3 Efficiency 3 modules + 1 Speed 3 Module gets you 65% of the pollution of just using 2 efficiency 2 modules (both machines are at the efficiency cap). - If you are using a single line of beacons, you can cut pollution again by 65%. In this setup 4 beacons touch each assembler, each assembler has 2 Efficiency 2 + 2 Speed 3, and the 4 beacons have 7 Efficiency 3 + 1 Speed 3. - Upgraded assembly machines are both faster and less polluting per second. This makes them better in every way.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:24
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Or you use prod-3's abs speed beacons and pave the world because you're turning it into a toxic hellscape.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:28
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M_Gargantua posted:Or you use prod-3's abs speed beacons and pave the world because you're turning it into a toxic hellscape.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:48
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Making solar panels steam generators instead of electricity generators would be nice. Change solar panels to reflectors and have a solar heating tower that outputs hot water / steam based on how many reflectors are around it. You can already mod in upgraded steam generators from GotLag's nuclear mod. Even if you don't use the reactors you have the Steam Turbine that can be fed by (a lot of) boilers.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:43
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I don't know if it'd be too bloated, but I'd like both options. Solar->Power can be less efficient or require more materials than Solar->Steam->Engine->Power. Sometimes you need an outpost power supply without a whole water setup, so old solar shouldn't go away.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:49
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Started a new game and wound up in a desert area with a small patch of coal. This is the first time I actually used the wood bio (agriculture) mod since I installed it 5 games ago. Wound up being a fun lil puzzle to do before I get to set up trains and oil. Feels validating that I kept that poo poo in.
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Feb 21, 2017 10:45
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I want to set up a wood to charcoal to solid fuel production line to make my factory more energy efficient (and also because I do t have much coal around). How viable is this idea?
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Feb 21, 2017 10:49
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You just have to set up a poo poo ton of farms to be a true replacement. I just got done setting up a 4 wood farm buildings for testing and it is only like 5% of my coal production compared to 12 coal miners. Looking at the tech tree, it looks like it provides decent fuel production, but that gets far more complicated.
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Feb 21, 2017 10:56
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I really want to binge on Factorio but I've been holding off waiting for this darn patch. I've decided that my next game, I'll incorporate solar panels and accu's into my sprawling rail network, or at least the main rail network closer to my base. This leads on to the question: I never know how the gently caress to calculate how many accu's I need to ensure I can power my factory. Cause accu's store joules and I dunno how to convert that to useful information regarding how many watts my factory pulls. I'm a god drat engineer and I don't know this, it's embarrassing. So is there a way I could look at my power production, see how much watts my factory needs, then do a calculation to find out how many joules of storage I should aim for to ensure I can power it?
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Feb 21, 2017 12:00
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Well a joule is a Watt-second, right? So it's 3.6 megajoules to a kilowatt hour, or 3.6 gigajoules to a megawatt-hour Ed: ah, screw it. Per Google, you need 25 fully charged accumulators per MW of demand to last the night. Or 21 accumulators for each 25 solar panels ZekeNY fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 14:01
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ZekeNY posted:Well a joule is a Watt-second, right? So it's 3.6 megajoules to a kilowatt hour, or 3.6 gigajoules to a megawatt-hour Thanks, I wanna understand the math behind it, but it goes over my head and I don't know why I can't grasp it. I'll just stick to the 25 accu's per MW.
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Feb 21, 2017 14:12
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Babby's first factory reporting in: using bus method(because I am a creature of chaos and will absolutely create a mess if I dont use this) I just got green science done. For the future robot apocalypse I decided to go make some factories to stock up on.. well, the goal is to have everything that isn't an intermediate product in a box somewhere. In the mean time I am researching everything because why not and I... think I am done? I'm researching so much faster than I could ever possibly build it's crazy. And then oil  jesus. I mean I read up on it and I get it, it's not even difficult once you get the complete base picture of oil + cracking in your head but I just don't agree on how it is introduced I guess. Up until this point everything gets thrown at you in pieces. You build up gradually. In order to properly do oil, though, you need to set up a large part of it in advance and already keep in mind you need to crack down the line and pretty much instantly research advanced oil, unless you enjoy getting stuck because one of your oils quietly backs up.Besides that, it is pretty neat and I like what it adds to the game. Now I just need to do my best to not turn it into a total mess of pipes.
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Feb 21, 2017 14:23
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It's a bit finicky because nighttime doesn't instantly switch on and off, there's a gradual ramp in solar efficiency during dusk. So if you have an excess of solar panels you actually need (slightly) fewer accumulators to keep everything on. Dusk is 83.3... seconds at each end of nighttime, and night itself lasts 41.6... seconds. So you need 41.6... MJ to supply 1 MW for the entire night, and 83.3... MJ to supply 1 MW during dusk periods (2 periods, at an average 50% duty cycle). If you have zero excess solar capacity, this means you need 125 MJ per MW, or 25 accumulators. In reality, you are going to have excess solar capacity. (In fact, if you didn't, your accumulators would end up not recharging during the day). So you can actually get away with slightly fewer.
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Feb 21, 2017 14:27
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"fewer" is a word that should never be said about anything in this game
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Feb 21, 2017 14:49
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Renegret posted:"fewer" is a word that should never be said about anything in this game Well, when I say "fewer", I really mean "more of absolutely everything else". It's all relative.
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Feb 21, 2017 14:51
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Jabor posted:Well, when I say "fewer", I really mean "more of absolutely everything else". It's all relative. hell yeah now you're speaking my language
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Feb 21, 2017 14:52
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If I remember right, 24 solar panels and 20 accumulators will give you 24-hour coverage of 1 MW of electricity. e: I should try reading more than the last two posts. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 15:00
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Jabor posted:It's a bit finicky because nighttime doesn't instantly switch on and off, there's a gradual ramp in solar efficiency during dusk. So if you have an excess of solar panels you actually need (slightly) fewer accumulators to keep everything on. Dusk is 83.3... seconds at each end of nighttime, and night itself lasts 41.6... seconds. So you need 41.6... MJ to supply 1 MW for the entire night, and 83.3... MJ to supply 1 MW during dusk periods (2 periods, at an average 50% duty cycle). If you have zero excess solar capacity, this means you need 125 MJ per MW, or 25 accumulators.
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Feb 21, 2017 15:05
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I build giant farms of solar panels, then I build giant farms of accumulators next to them with no regard of ratios other than "the blocks line up nicely and look pretty" Mostly because I like the sound hundreds of accumulators make when you're standing next to them while they're on. bzzzzzzzztbzzzzzzzztbzzzzzzzztbzzzzzzzztbzzzzzzzzt
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Feb 21, 2017 15:09
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Renegret posted:I build giant farms of solar panels, then I build giant farms of accumulators next to them with no regard of ratios other than "the blocks line up nicely and look pretty" Perfectly valid. Factorio is the best.
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Feb 21, 2017 15:15
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Renegret posted:"fewer" is a word that should never be said about anything in this game Fewer patches of unpaved land.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:14
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Collateral Damage posted:Making solar panels steam generators instead of electricity generators would be nice. Change solar panels to reflectors and have a solar heating tower that outputs hot water / steam based on how many reflectors are around it. So, instead of using accumulators, we can just store the steam in tanks overnight?
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Feb 21, 2017 17:37
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Dr. Stab posted:So, instead of using accumulators, we can just store the steam in tanks overnight? That's an idea that the community has been kicking around for a while: https://wiki.factorio.com/Power_production#Storing_hot_water_in_tanks A single tank full of 100° hot water stores a lot of power in a small space.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:14
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Solumin posted:That's an idea that the community has been kicking around for a while: https://wiki.factorio.com/Power_production#Storing_hot_water_in_tanks Wait, you can actually store hot liquids in tanks? drat, now I really want a solar boiler mod.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:19
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Bit late on the auto-burner chat but my preferred method these days is to hook the accumulator signal up to the coal belts. You can do a neat stepped-activation thing by activating the belts into each row of boilers at different power thresholds* (one each at 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% is what I usually do), and since they move a bunch of coal in, the boilers keep running for a while after the power gets back above the threshold, so it goes into recharging the accumulators a little bit. *I'm sure you could do something fancy with combinators instead of settting each belt individually but it works well enough for me and I rarely put down more than 4 sets of 28-21-2 boilers so I only have four belts to set up.
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Feb 22, 2017 04:21
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I hope that if you split a hive mind's territory, the separated parts go independent.
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Feb 22, 2017 10:00
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Oxygen Not Included is somewhat similar to Factorio except it's based more on chemistry and physics instead of engineering. It's done by the guys who did Don't Starve. It's in early access except you can't buy it directly from Steam for some reason. Use the link mentioned in this post to buy it. There are a number of Let's Play's on YouTube, I'm following the Skye Storm one, but Blitz just started playing it (he bought it with his own money) as well. I'm playing it and screwing it up majorly, just like when I first started in Factorio 
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Feb 23, 2017 16:39
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Lorini posted:It's in early access except you can't buy it directly from Steam for some reason.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:45
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Lorini posted:Oxygen Not Included is somewhat similar to Factorio except it's based more on chemistry and physics instead of engineering. It's done by the guys who did Don't Starve. It's in early access except you can't buy it directly from Steam for some reason. Use the link mentioned in this post to buy it. There are a number of Let's Play's on YouTube, I'm following the Skye Storm one, but Blitz just started playing it (he bought it with his own money) as well. I'm on the fence after watching a couple of vids, but they didn't get very far into it so was difficult to say how much depth/complexity it had. I'll probably end up getting it at some point though. The ant-farm view and oxygen/power management aspects of it remind me a bit of Nom Nom Galaxy. SinineSiil posted:You actually can. Even the page you linked to has link to it. I think they meant that you can't get it from it's page on the Steam store. It just shows as "not available". You can only get it off Steam with that direct add-to-basket link. For anyone who has played or watched further than an hour or so... do you get more colonists at some point or is it just the ones you start with? Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 16:46
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SinineSiil posted:You actually can. Even the page you linked to has link to it. The link opens in a browser and adds it to steam cart yes. But if you search the store via the steam client, the page you get doesn't have a purchase button. For me that's a hassle since I don't leave my browser logged into steam, logging in means I need my phone (because of the 2 factor auth app) and of course the phone battery is flat right now. I'm not sure I like the art style but I might give it a shot later if I remember once the phone charges.
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Feb 23, 2017 17:12
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Ratzap posted:The link opens in a browser and adds it to steam cart yes. But if you search the store via the steam client, the page you get doesn't have a purchase button. For me that's a hassle since I don't leave my browser logged into steam, logging in means I need my phone (because of the 2 factor auth app) and of course the phone battery is flat right now. I'm not sure I like the art style but I might give it a shot later if I remember once the phone charges. Oh, they got two different apps for some reason.
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Feb 23, 2017 17:17
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Gravy Jones posted:For anyone who has played or watched further than an hour or so... do you get more colonists at some point or is it just the ones you start with? Yes, about 24:40 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXBCWP66siU&t=1479s
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Feb 23, 2017 17:49
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Yes it's like RimWorld, you get new people from time to time. You can choose one from a set of three offered when they show up. I'm not sure what makes them come, it could be a set amount of time. Naturally if you are already short on oxygen/food you don't want more people. Also they aren't kidding about putting in a toilet first thing.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:03
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Just an FYI, it is very early alpha. There's not much to do. There's only about 15 items you can build and it's relatively simple to set up a self-sufficient colony. The game has heaps of promise, just right now it's in it's babby stages. Klei is an awesome developer though so I know it'll turn into a real gem.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:19
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zedprime posted:As a problem its kind of painted into a corner. Solar panels are free energy as long as there is no logistic or defensive need baked into. Its just hard to argue with those economics because belting things around becomes a limiting factor in a super factory. pollution is a bigger problem imo. If you go with coal-only beyond just building a single rocket, biters get completely out of control
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Feb 24, 2017 01:59
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little munchkin posted:pollution is a bigger problem imo. If you go with coal-only beyond just building a single rocket, biters get completely out of control Thus, absent efficiency modules, a "green" factory will produce 1/3 the pollution of a coal-powered one for its assemblers and 87% for its mining drills. But efficiency modules can get you down to 20% for both. In other words, you can cut pollution dramatically more by using efficiency modules than by switching off coal to solar.
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Feb 24, 2017 03:26
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