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SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
I miss any of the weapons from 1/2/Tactics that are decently modded into the game? Might do a seperate post with outfits and clothing recreated from the previous games for 4 as well.

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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

SeanBeansShako posted:

I miss any of the weapons from 1/2/Tactics that are decently modded into the game? Might do a seperate post with outfits and clothing recreated from the previous games for 4 as well.

There's a new MPL mod that is pretty good quality:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22207/

This R91 remake got a big update about a month ago:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7715/

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


I'm still waiting on a decent 14mm pistol. Seems every model out there is just hella rectangular and doesn't capture the 50s sci-fi blaster feel of the original.

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

turn off the TV posted:

This R91 remake got a big update about a month ago:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7715/

This keeps happening to me too, but, it's actually 2017 now. :v: That "big update" is like a year old.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

turn off the TV posted:

There's a new MPL mod that is pretty good quality:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22207/

This R91 remake got a big update about a month ago:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7715/

Woah that R91 one is so much better and you don't need to get a real world weapon add on as well. Also, got the other one in the post but wasn't sure if it was a a lore friendly pubbie creation or in a game! Will do the outfit and armor one later too.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

potaties posted:

This keeps happening to me too, but, it's actually 2017 now. :v: That "big update" is like a year old.

It was uploaded in Jan 2016 and updated in Jan 2017. On Nexus the last update date is listed to the left of the upload date, just under the description, and below the upload date listed under the title.

The only reason I knew it was updated recently is because I went through the latest updated weapons the other day.

turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Feb 24, 2017

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

turn off the TV posted:

It was uploaded in Jan 2016 and updated in Jan 2017. On Nexus the last update date is listed to the left of the upload date, just under the description, and below the upload date listed under the title.

The only reason I knew it was updated recently is because I went through the latest updated weapons the other day.

"Updated" on the Nexus doesn't necessarily mean the files were updated, just that something in the description was. The dates you want to pay attention to are the file dates. The latest version 1.6, the one referenced in the description with "BIG UPDATE!", was posted 1:47, 3 February 2016, over a year ago. He probably just changed some minor text in the description last month.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?
Goddamn it, the posters with lighting options that came with the workshop(?) DLC have disappeared. I'm guessing a settlement mod overwrote it.

Also I really liked the R91, but all these lovely weapons with custom animations have trumped it for me. I would go back to using that though if it had some customs.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

A problem with the Fallout 4 DT mod is that if an energy or ballistic attack falls below the damage threshold of the armor then zero damage is applied and the attacker flees, whereas in New Vegas the maximum amount of damage blocked was 80%. This means that power armor users are going to experience lots and lots of enemies fleeing and turrets not firing.

I think that I'm going to get around this by giving every single physical attack some amount of bleed damage, and every form of energy attack %health lowering radiation damage. AP rounds will deal less bleed damage than standard rounds, but if they bypass the target's armor they should deal more damage total. Right now there isn't a formula for bleeding damage resist, which I would like to add. Padded armors would have more radiation and bleeding DR and less DT, metal armors more DT and less rad and bleeding DR, with stuff like combat armor in the middle. This will also mean that weapons that have higher bleed damage will be the best option against super mutants, since they wear metal armor and have radiation immunity. I'd also like to add bleed immunity for robots, similar to how mutants are immune to radiation.

I think that this would also go even further in specializing weapons for specific targets and encouraging using a variety of options. High DT targets are vulnerable to radiation and high AP, high HP targets are vulnerable to high ballistic and energy damage, high energy/bleed DR targets are vulnerable high damage and moderate AP, while armored, rad and bleed DR targets (super mutants) are vulnerable to bleeding.

potaties posted:

"Updated" on the Nexus doesn't necessarily mean the files were updated, just that something in the description was. The dates you want to pay attention to are the file dates. The latest version 1.6, the one referenced in the description with "BIG UPDATE!", was posted 1:47, 3 February 2016, over a year ago. He probably just changed some minor text in the description last month.

Well I guess we were both right. I didn't think to check the file date.

Falken posted:

Also I really liked the R91, but all these lovely weapons with custom animations have trumped it for me. I would go back to using that though if it had some customs.

This makes me wonder if the Homemade Rifle animations would look any better on it.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?

turn off the TV posted:

A problem with the Fallout 4 DT mod is that if an energy or ballistic attack falls below the damage threshold of the armor then zero damage is applied and the attacker flees, whereas in New Vegas the maximum amount of damage blocked was 80%. This means that power armor users are going to experience lots and lots of enemies fleeing and turrets not firing.

I think that I'm going to get around this by giving every single physical attack some amount of bleed damage, and every form of energy attack %health lowering radiation damage. AP rounds will deal less bleed damage than standard rounds, but if they bypass the target's armor they should deal more damage total. Right now there isn't a formula for bleeding damage resist, which I would like to add. Padded armors would have more radiation and bleeding DR and less DT, metal armors more DT and less rad and bleeding DR, with stuff like combat armor in the middle. This will also mean that weapons that have higher bleed damage will be the best option against super mutants, since they wear metal armor and have radiation immunity. I'd also like to add bleed immunity for robots, similar to how mutants are immune to radiation.

I think that this would also go even further in specializing weapons for specific targets and encouraging using a variety of options. High DT targets are vulnerable to radiation and high AP, high HP targets are vulnerable to high ballistic and energy damage, high energy/bleed DR targets are vulnerable high damage and moderate AP, while armored, rad and bleed DR targets (super mutants) are vulnerable to bleeding.


Well I guess we were both right. I didn't think to check the file date.


This makes me wonder if the Homemade Rifle animations would look any better on it.
Well if you use Grab the drat Mag it fixes the actual magazine part of the reload. This has a knock on effect that it slightly naffs up the tommy gun reload but eh.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Falken posted:

Well if you use Grab the drat Mag it fixes the actual magazine part of the reload. This has a knock on effect that it slightly naffs up the tommy gun reload but eh.

I didn't know about this mod. People are adding in custom animations somehow, so its likely that you could just add this as a new animation option. That way you'd have a better looking R91 and Chinese Assault Rifle and an acceptable SMG.

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

turn off the TV posted:

This makes me wonder if the Homemade Rifle animations would look any better on it.

Unfortunately, the animations are tied to the mesh's bones in specific ways so that they aren't always natively hot-swappable without having strange issues like floating cylinders or twirling magazines when animations play out. I think sometimes it can work (the STG-60 mod has both SMG and Handmade Rifle anims), but I think that one's an outlier.

Grab the drat Mag is a blessing for pretty much any of those early-developed FO4 weapon mods, since the majority of them are set up with the Submachine Gun anims. But nowadays I've dropped most of them in favor of the fun animations on newer modded weapons. Stuff like the Garand, Varmint Rifle, 9mm, and 45 Auto mods get the double benefit of being lore-friendly and also looking really distinct from the original weapons with their animations. Grab the drat Mag gets kind of boring when you see it across a dozen different guns.

EDIT: This mod is pretty fun for weapons with Deliverer animation sets, but you have to be careful since occasionally some pistol mods won't actually have working models for their magazines.

potaties fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 24, 2017

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
The Morita battle rifle has excellent custom animations. I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill'em all!

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Requires DLC. :argh:

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?

potaties posted:

EDIT: This mod is pretty fun for weapons with Deliverer animation sets, but you have to be careful since occasionally some pistol mods won't actually have working models for their magazines.
Yeah, the Glock 20 doesn't have a magazine modeled.

I'm waiting patiently for more bolt action rifles to be added. I know that the Mauser and XM2010 (which has super animations) exists as well as the right-handed bolt mod for the hunting rifle, but I'd like something along the lines of M24, M40a1 or L96a1.

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

Falken posted:

I'm waiting patiently for more bolt action rifles to be added. I know that the Mauser and XM2010 (which has super animations) exists as well as the right-handed bolt mod for the hunting rifle, but I'd like something along the lines of M24, M40a1 or L96a1.

Here's a Mosin Nagant that's in the works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3wtCZnvrno
The stripper clip is pretty neat, though I wonder how it'll look with a scope on there. Looks nice though.

CascadeBeta
Feb 14, 2009

by Cyrano4747
Has anyone tried Horizon with the DefenseGun replacer? This might be a stupid question, because I don't know if the DefenseGun replacement mod actually changes any stats or just models. Basically, I want to never look at another pipe weapon again. I'm at work and can't check the Nexus at the moment.

CascadeBeta fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 24, 2017

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?

potaties posted:

Here's a Mosin Nagant that's in the works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3wtCZnvrno
The stripper clip is pretty neat, though I wonder how it'll look with a scope on there. Looks nice though.
The scope on a Mosin Nagant sat quite far back, ceasing just before the bolt opening. Wait, that'd just foul with the bolt lever... Off to the side, maybe?

Really nice anims though! Surprised at how good the 3rd person ones are.

CascadeBeta posted:

Has anyone tried Horizon with the DefenseGun replacer? This might be a stupid question, because I don't know if the DefenseGun replacement mod actually changes any stats or just models. Basically, I want to never look at another pipe weapon again. I'm at work and can't check the Nexus at the moment.
I'm fairly certain that the stats are not changed. Strangely enough the pipe weapons AND defense guns are present, with the defense guns having higher stats.

Falken fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Feb 24, 2017

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
This is a sort of legacy mod add on list for outfits, armor and power armor for those first time modders who just want to add a bit more lore friendly content to the game before going nuts. This stuff will basically be either from the previous lore friendly entries of the franchise, or use assets/stuff inspired by official art book/promotional materiel and not stick out too much.

Both the CBBE and AWKCR mods are mandatory and strongly suggested of course.

Fallout 1/2/Tactics:

Classic M1 US Army style combat armor helmet replacement
Classic Cloth style Vault Jumpsuit
Classic Brotherhood Scribe Robes

Fallout 3:

Tunnel Snake Greaser Jacket Vault Suit Combo
Chinese Stealth Suit
Reilly's Rangers Combat Armor -Standalone
Merc Grunt Outfit
Merc Charmer outfit
Merc Troublemaker outfit
Merc Cruiser outfit
Raider Iconoclast armor
Enclave X02 Power Armor
Enclave Colonel Uniform

Fallout New Vegas:

NCR Veteran Range Armor
Benny's Daisy Suit
Vera Keys formal cocktail dress from Dead Money
US Air Force style power armor
NCR Recon Fatigues & Beret
NCR Ranger hat and the Authority aviator style shades
The Kings Greaser Jacket & Jeans combo
Bad rear end Dweller Vault Coat


Lore Friendly Originals:

A More Defined & Detailed Vault Suit
West Tek Tactical Goggles
Concept Art Synthetic Armor/Gear
Two Irma Concept Outfits From The Art Book
A Redcoat/Continental Army soldier uniform
Wasteland Engineer outfit based on the art for one of the Workshop DLC.
Reskin of the vanilla game flight helmet to something that isn't a hidious shade of vomit yellow.
1930's Retro Fashion For Men.
1950's Feminine Outfits (for woman obv)
1950's style US Army Officer Uniforms
Commonwealth Surplus basically adds a bunch of military and civil service style uniforms (cops and other minor branches) to the Commonwealth. This mod is also a sneaky Gunner visual variety mod as it adds most of the new stuff to their gear.
Custom T-49 Armor of the Shoddycast Fallout lore mascot, The Storyteller
2nd World War 2-Tone style Military Fatigues For Pre-War Army uniforms

SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 26, 2017

Saint Sputnik
Apr 1, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!
poo poo, more nice weapons just dropped
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22254/
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22207/


beats for junkies posted:

I have this mod (along with the expanded soundtrack pack) and it's a good mod. Thanks for making it, you've made exploring Far Harbor so much more moody (in a good way)!

After I made that I set aside a bunch of tracks from the Conet Project to make a numbers station radio. Thought I might tie it into wandering eyebots or the ham radios around the world, but a plain radio station would be easiest.

Lurdiak posted:

I'm still waiting on a decent 14mm pistol. Seems every model out there is just hella rectangular and doesn't capture the 50s sci-fi blaster feel of the original.



I can't find it now but I know I've seen one exactly like that

SeanBeansShako posted:

I'm putting that in my suggested list and dropping one of those lovely generic real world guns because my god that 10MM remaster is glorious. This weekend I'll get around to making a good list of lore friendly firearms for first time Fallout 4 mod goons.



I use DOOM's weapon collection which is real-world based but here are some other weapons I use that I would consider lore-friendly, some might be repeats from others' recent posts:

Grease gun
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21921/

Crude blowback
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16657/

Makeshift anti-materiel
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18915/

Handmade revolver
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18457/

Pipe shotgun
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11274/

A different pipe shotgun, which I just realized I forgot to install this time around, dang
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10826/

Also the Borderlands revolver mod is what convinced me to reinstall this lovely game
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21794/

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

After bashing my head against the wall for the better part of the afternoon and evening trying to get the bleed enchantment to work on the 10mm pistol I decided to spawn a serrated machete and, to my surprise, it seems like the bleed enchantment straight up doesn't work at all. There isn't any DoT effect being applied, despite the fact it should be dealing 15 damage over the course of 5 seconds.

Can anyone else test this out and tell me if it's a bug on my end? I'd like to apply bleeding as a weapon mod, but if it's straight up busted I can still apply it to the base weapon, or as a new damage type.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy
This one's an energy weapon, but it looks pretty cool: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22189/

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014


I would recommend as an alternative to these, a different Chinese Assault Rifle and R91. The two linked have some really awful materials that make the guns look like they were sculpted out of a clay/plastic material in game. The R91 I linked isn't perfect but it's better, and the Chinese Assault Rifle is great, with the caveat that it's held further away from the player in first person than any other weapon is for some reason.

Jack Ketch
Jul 5, 2005

:getin:
Lipstick Apathy

turn off the TV posted:

After bashing my head against the wall for the better part of the afternoon and evening trying to get the bleed enchantment to work on the 10mm pistol I decided to spawn a serrated machete and, to my surprise, it seems like the bleed enchantment straight up doesn't work at all. There isn't any DoT effect being applied, despite the fact it should be dealing 15 damage over the course of 5 seconds.

Can anyone else test this out and tell me if it's a bug on my end? I'd like to apply bleeding as a weapon mod, but if it's straight up busted I can still apply it to the base weapon, or as a new damage type.

Did you try using FO4edit and duplicate the legendary effect onto your existing weapon? the Keyword HasLegendary_Weapon_Bleed and enchantment ench_mod_ModLegendaryWeaponBleed parts. It seems to work that way, at least when I added bleed to a new Two-Shot enchantment.
I assume you could still add it to a regular weapon/weapon part.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Jack Ketch posted:

Did you try using FO4edit and duplicate the legendary effect onto your existing weapon? the Keyword HasLegendary_Weapon_Bleed and enchantment ench_mod_ModLegendaryWeaponBleed parts. It seems to work that way, at least when I added bleed to a new Two-Shot enchantment.
I assume you could still add it to a regular weapon/weapon part.

There's actually a non legendary form of bleed, which is what I'm looking at. Legendary bleed woks for me, but regular bleed does not. They use different base spells.

I'd just go ahead and use the legendary bleed effect but I don't seem to be able to apply the magic damage resist stat that I'd like.

Thanks for reminding me about FO4edit, though, I think I'll use that to check if I've accidentally changed something.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

aniviron posted:

I would recommend as an alternative to these, a different Chinese Assault Rifle and R91. The two linked have some really awful materials that make the guns look like they were sculpted out of a clay/plastic material in game. The R91 I linked isn't perfect but it's better, and the Chinese Assault Rifle is great, with the caveat that it's held further away from the player in first person than any other weapon is for some reason.

poo poo for some reason I mixed up my Chinese Assault rifles and I meant originally to post the Melody one. Sadly the R91 I suggested will stay as you get it all as a single mod and is easier to install than the other one.

I also added that hella sweet China Lake & Holo Rifle one too. All that is missing the a classic Gauss Rifle!

staberind
Feb 20, 2008

but i dont wanna be a spaceship
Fun Shoe
We are all fans of dadaist humour here. http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22166/ really scratched that absurdist itch.
Edit : Voiced player character, you can wander around Corvega asking if they know about Addictol, or swearing. both actually, and more.

staberind fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 25, 2017

Captainsalami
Apr 16, 2010

I told you you'd pay!
Is there perhaps a mod that makes items i can pick up outlined so I dont have to go pixel hunting? These games are hoarding simulators for me, not questing. Sometimes its hard to see poo poo. Like I want to be able to walk into a room and easily look around for things i can take.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Captainsalami posted:

Is there perhaps a mod that makes items i can pick up outlined so I dont have to go pixel hunting? These games are hoarding simulators for me, not questing. Sometimes its hard to see poo poo. Like I want to be able to walk into a room and easily look around for things i can take.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/3471/

This mod allows you to toggle everything for Scrapper 2.

Captainsalami
Apr 16, 2010

I told you you'd pay!
Neat, thanks. I'm working on trying to collect all of everything from everywhere, because I have a problem. At my last save i had 8k pounds of poo poo on me.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

I'd like some feedback on the damage system I'm thinking of.

Ballistic and laser weapons would each do three forms of damage, with plasma dealing five.

Ballistic weapons would do ballistic, impact, and bleeding damage. That is, the actual penetration of the bullet, the physical impact, and the amount of bleeding caused by the wound. Ballistic would use DT and DR, bleeding damage would use DT (assuming that I can get it working), and impact would use DR (using the explosive resistances). The amount of impact damage would be a fixed percentage of the overall damage of the shot, probably around 10%, with bleed depending on the type of ammo. Bleeding damage would not effect robots or gen 1 and 2 synths.

Ballistic weapons would have three types of ammo mods:

Penetrating, which would be relatively low damage, low bleed, but with significantly higher armor penetration, meaning that most or all of its damage would get through to the target. AP would be ideal ammo type for targets with padded armor, and armor types its penetration outscales, but would less useful against unarmored targets, or targets with very high DTs, like power armor.

Standard, which would low armor penetration, high damage, and low bleed. Because it deals larger amounts of damage it would have stronger physical impacts. This type of ammunition would effective against heavily armored targets due to the amount of blunt force trauma applied, somewhat effective against unarmored targets, but fairly weak against padded armor types.

Hollow point, which would low armor penetration, low damage, but very high bleed. This type of ammo would be useless against armored opponents, but devastating to unarmored foes. Ideally I'd like to be able to tie the application of the bleed effect to a successful DT check for ballistic damage, but I'm not too sure how possible that would be.

Laser weapons would deal energy, burn, and radiation damage. Energy would be based on DT and DR, burn on DT, and radiation the standard radiation resistances. The amount of burn damage would be tied to the overall damage of the weapon's energy damage, much the same way as ballistic impact. I'm not sure how I'll figure out burn's DT, but I'm thinking I'll connect it to energy resistance.

There would also be three major types of laser weapon beams:

Focused, which is low energy and low radiation damage, but has armor penetration properties. This beam type would be effective against armored targets, and would outclass nearly any form of energy resistance.

Charged (or maybe Scathing?), which would be high damage, low radiation, and low armor piercing. This type of beam would be ideally suited for both moderately armored and unarmored targets, especially mutants, which wouldn't have the DT to block burning.

Irraidiating, which would be low damage, low armor piercing, but high radiation. This beam type would work similarly to the Gamma Gun, but would have a much more evenly balanced damage profile. Since most mutants are immune to, or are even healed by radiation, it would be best suited for dealing with human and artificial targets.

Plasma guns would feature the damage types of both laser and ballistic weapons, except for bleeding. Like the vanilla plasma gun, however, its overall damage would be split between all of its types, meaning that much of it will be nullified by DT. Plasma would, like the other types, offer mods to boost certain damage types. I'm not sure what these would be, or how to implement them without them being too powerful.

Anyways, how does this all sound to people? Any glaring balance problems you can think of?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It sounds complicated, I find it a little difficult to follow.

I think if you want a good damage system then FNV actually did it rather well and I would start from that and expand it if you can. Yours sounds interesting but very complicated for a game that features rather hectic combat.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

OwlFancier posted:

It sounds complicated, I find it a little difficult to follow.

I think if you want a good damage system then FNV actually did it rather well and I would start from that and expand it if you can. Yours sounds interesting but very complicated for a game that features rather hectic combat.

Unfortunately this is a byproduct of adopting the New Vegas approach. Fallout 4's DT mod is an all or nothing effect, where you either pass the check and deal damage subtracted by the DT, or fail the check and do zero damage. As a result of this DT has to be a very small number, or weapons need to deal at least two forms of damage with every shot, one checked by DT and the other ignoring it.

If an NPC cant beat the DT of their target they flee or do nothing, which means that at higher levels you're going to have most of your enemies running away unless, of course, you make the DT values so low that they don't really impact the game, which seems a bit pointless.

I also am basing this on the Stalker franchise, which features a large number of resistances on its armors for various damage effects. Guns in Stalker deal three types of damage, ballistic, impact and rupture. Ballistic and impact are straight up damage, while rupture is bleeding, and all armors have resistances for those damage types (and more). Additionally, every weapon has two or three kinds of ammunition that are stronger against certain resistances than others.

It's a little confusing at first, but once you have the system figured out it's very intuitive. Heavily armored suits are usually great for large amounts of combat, medium and light weight suits are good for traveling due to their weight, while there are a variety of suits designed for dealing with radiation and elemental damage. There isn't necessarily one single best option to use. The same goes for weapons. Armor penetration, bleeding, and overall damage and impact vary, and depending on what you're fighting you will want to use very different weapons. It's hard to fight a Chimera with a VSS loaded with AP rounds, but it's also a nightmare to fight a mercenary in an exoskeleton using a shotgun with buckshot.

My hope is that, by adding a system drawing inspiration from Stalker and New Vegas, how you equip yourself will take a little bit more planning. Certain enemies will be much more vulnerable to certain damage types, while others will be almost immune, so collecting and modding a variety of weapons will be more necessary for success. Similarly, certain armors and armor mods will be much more important and useful for certain situations.

W. D. Basterd
Jul 11, 2016

Falken posted:

Goddamn it, the posters with lighting options that came with the workshop(?) DLC have disappeared. I'm guessing a settlement mod overwrote it.

Also I really liked the R91, but all these lovely weapons with custom animations have trumped it for me. I would go back to using that though if it had some customs.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

turn off the TV posted:

Unfortunately this is a byproduct of adopting the New Vegas approach. Fallout 4's DT mod is an all or nothing effect, where you either pass the check and deal damage subtracted by the DT, or fail the check and do zero damage. As a result of this DT has to be a very small number, or weapons need to deal at least two forms of damage with every shot, one checked by DT and the other ignoring it.

If an NPC cant beat the DT of their target they flee or do nothing, which means that at higher levels you're going to have most of your enemies running away unless, of course, you make the DT values so low that they don't really impact the game, which seems a bit pointless.

I also am basing this on the Stalker franchise, which features a large number of resistances on its armors for various damage effects. Guns in Stalker deal three types of damage, ballistic, impact and rupture. Ballistic and impact are straight up damage, while rupture is bleeding, and all armors have resistances for those damage types (and more). Additionally, every weapon has two or three kinds of ammunition that are stronger against certain resistances than others.

It's a little confusing at first, but once you have the system figured out it's very intuitive. Heavily armored suits are usually great for large amounts of combat, medium and light weight suits are good for traveling due to their weight, while there are a variety of suits designed for dealing with radiation and elemental damage. There isn't necessarily one single best option to use. The same goes for weapons. Armor penetration, bleeding, and overall damage and impact vary, and depending on what you're fighting you will want to use very different weapons. It's hard to fight a Chimera with a VSS loaded with AP rounds, but it's also a nightmare to fight a mercenary in an exoskeleton using a shotgun with buckshot.

My hope is that, by adding a system drawing inspiration from Stalker and New Vegas, how you equip yourself will take a little bit more planning. Certain enemies will be much more vulnerable to certain damage types, while others will be almost immune, so collecting and modding a variety of weapons will be more necessary for success. Similarly, certain armors and armor mods will be much more important and useful for certain situations.

Less is more, especially if it's non-intuitive and you have no way of representing it to the player.

Saint Sputnik
Apr 1, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!
Is there some specific formula Horizon uses to determine weapon damage that I could apply to other mods, or should I just guess at what the nearest equivalent would be?

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014

Feedback as to your damage system:

Not sure how you plan to handle bleeding, but it would have to be either A) The armor reduces bleed damage by a flat percentage based on Maths, or B), it reduces the percentage of the time a bullet actually does make you bleed. B makes a lot more sense but I have no idea how tough it would be to code. If you go for option A then you're back in the same situation we already have where good armors give you great damage resist, and if you go for option B it makes fast firing guns much much better than Rifleman perk weapons because you can stack bleed very very quickly no matter how much armor is on the player (or whatever the player is shooting, Mirelurk queen etc). Oh, and I think you can very much justify robots taking bleed damage; their bodies are still full of fluids that circulate to keep them running, i.e. oil, coolant, hydraulic fluids, which are the equivalent of bleeding.

I like the idea of ammo switching but as far as I am aware there is no way to switch what kind of bullet a gun shoots in the game without swapping out parts at a weapons workbench, so that will be a technical hurdle to overcome.

Radiation damage on energy weapons is bad. Energy weapons are already very second-class in Fallout 4 because of their lower damage potential, their lack of variety, and the fact that so many things have more ER than DR. Making them do rad damage instead of bleed just makes them much worse- because almost everything in the wasteland except humans (which make up maybe a third of everything you fight) are immune to rad damage. Even if everything had no rad resist it would still be worthless- the damage doesn't stack, what happens is that the energy damage depletes their health pool and then the rad damage decreases their max health, but they've already lost the health that you've removed from their max so it effectively does no damage at all. The Radium Rifle has this same problem. Even with Nuclear Physicist, you will kill your enemies from normal damage long long before the rad damage even becomes an issue, and the rad damage isn't helping you kill them.

It's neat that you're taking inspiration from STALKER and I agree, STALKER has a cool armor system. I'm just not sure how applicable it is here, because I'm pretty sure it does use a similar system to FNV's DT, based on my experiences in exoskeletons in those games. Small caliber bullets will still hurt you, just not very much. There are a few other issues that make it not translate very well also- STALKER uses the bleed percent chance resist on your armor, but even in bad armor you can bandage to stop the bleeding or take coagulants to make you less likely to bleed for a while, but in FO4 bleeding is just inevitability. STALKER also didn't have to contend with energy weapon damage, which is starting to make FO4's armors have a lot of really complicated numbers. Finally, impact damage in STALKER was for melee attacks, not bullets. I wouldn't recommend implementing that into FO4 though, the system you're proposing is complicated enough as is.

Bilal
Feb 20, 2012

The immediate problem I see with that ballistic damage system is how counterintuitive penetrating vs standard ammunition is. As a player, if I'm going to be fighting guys in power armor, I am going to say to myself "okay, power armor guys, that means I take armor piercing ammo with me." You'd have to do quite a bit of explaining to the player to get the point across that no, penetrating ammo is best for guys in leather, if you want to fight power armor guys the optimal choice is standard ammunition. Doesn't make any sense.

I'd go the simpler and more obvious route- armor piercing ammunition best for targets with good DT, hollowpoints for targets with low DT, and standard/FMJ ammo as the middle ground that can work against both but inefficiently. That adds the additional problem that players are lazy and would ignore the special ammo and just stock up on standard ammo because it works against everything and there's no need to switch ammo types, but it would make sense for a modded game that drastically cuts down ammunition drops- if you can't stock up reliably and if every bullet counts, players would have to use the best ammunition for the situation in order to kill the enemies in the least number of shots.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
There's some good outfits in there, but lol, it makes Piper look ridiculous by removing her pants and giving her high heels.

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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

turn off the TV posted:

Unfortunately this is a byproduct of adopting the New Vegas approach. Fallout 4's DT mod is an all or nothing effect, where you either pass the check and deal damage subtracted by the DT, or fail the check and do zero damage. As a result of this DT has to be a very small number, or weapons need to deal at least two forms of damage with every shot, one checked by DT and the other ignoring it.

If an NPC cant beat the DT of their target they flee or do nothing, which means that at higher levels you're going to have most of your enemies running away unless, of course, you make the DT values so low that they don't really impact the game, which seems a bit pointless.

I also am basing this on the Stalker franchise, which features a large number of resistances on its armors for various damage effects. Guns in Stalker deal three types of damage, ballistic, impact and rupture. Ballistic and impact are straight up damage, while rupture is bleeding, and all armors have resistances for those damage types (and more). Additionally, every weapon has two or three kinds of ammunition that are stronger against certain resistances than others.

It's a little confusing at first, but once you have the system figured out it's very intuitive. Heavily armored suits are usually great for large amounts of combat, medium and light weight suits are good for traveling due to their weight, while there are a variety of suits designed for dealing with radiation and elemental damage. There isn't necessarily one single best option to use. The same goes for weapons. Armor penetration, bleeding, and overall damage and impact vary, and depending on what you're fighting you will want to use very different weapons. It's hard to fight a Chimera with a VSS loaded with AP rounds, but it's also a nightmare to fight a mercenary in an exoskeleton using a shotgun with buckshot.

My hope is that, by adding a system drawing inspiration from Stalker and New Vegas, how you equip yourself will take a little bit more planning. Certain enemies will be much more vulnerable to certain damage types, while others will be almost immune, so collecting and modding a variety of weapons will be more necessary for success. Similarly, certain armors and armor mods will be much more important and useful for certain situations.

In that case I would suggest adding an invisible 10-20% damage to every weapon which just bypasses DT, which would simulate the mitigation cap in FNV. Don't actually show that because the player doesn't need to know or care about it as it shouldn't differ between guns, it's just an innate property of guns that they can't be completely blocked by armour.

On top of that I would suggest that things that gain bonuses to beat DT as in FNV is still the best way to do armour penetration. I found it very easy to make sense of and capable of ample depth in terms of different ammo types and their effects. And as above, AP for armour, hollowpoint for unarmored targets, standard for general use, makes a lot of sense and is easy to understand, and more importantly, simply makes guns more viable.

I would say though that doing it with receivers is going to be a bit tiresome, FNV worked because you could swap out whenever. Having to carry multiple guns or find a weapon bench to swap ammo is going to take a lot of the enjoyment out of it.

In terms of Stalker I honestly find FNV to be more interesting than Stalker in terms of guns. Stalker is fun, but the gun variety for me amounts to "find the most accurate rifle and put AP rounds in it, and find the most powerful shotgun and put buckshot in it, use former on people, use latter on animals." Because animals just eat bullets, people die if you shoot them in the head.

Whereas FNV had a whole bunch of cool ammo types and guns and stuff you could use.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 26, 2017

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