EoRaptor posted:Nobody is making you watch. Enjoy it for what it is, or go do something else.  *in an unsettlingly precise Ronaldo voice* so much for the tolerant gems!! Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 23:42
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Feb 25, 2017 23:43
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I thought that Rocknaldo was leaning kind of hard on the "hey allies, it's not about you, don't be lovely" thing, but sometimes you really have to drive home a message that really needs to be delivered to make sure the message is received.
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Feb 25, 2017 23:43
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EoRaptor posted:Nobody is making you watch. Enjoy it for what it is, or go do something else. I feel like statements like this are a gotcha, since someone either likes something, and then why do they have a problem? or they don't like something, and then why are they watching? It disallows a reason to actually complain and like the show at the same time. Kind of annoying when someone doesn't like something and wants to discuss that with fellow fans. One should understand that the strongest critics of a show are its biggest fans, because they actually give enough of a drat to actually give cogent criticism.
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Feb 25, 2017 23:47
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uh actually only uncritical love or hate is possible for all aspects of human experience
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Feb 25, 2017 23:49
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MechaCrash posted:I thought that Rocknaldo was leaning kind of hard on the "hey allies, it's not about you, don't be lovely" thing, but sometimes you really have to drive home a message that really needs to be delivered to make sure the message is received. I made the mistake of reading reactions to this episode on Reddit and Tumblr, and apparently the moral wasn't heavy-handed enough
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Feb 25, 2017 23:51
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I'm just going to buy this for you as an avatar at some point if you keep this up It'll be extra great because I imagine Gamma makes that face a lot too.
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Feb 25, 2017 23:54
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thechosenone posted:I feel like statements like this are a gotcha, since someone either likes something, and then why do they have a problem? or they don't like something, and then why are they watching? It disallows a reason to actually complain and like the show at the same time. Absolutely. Loving something doesn't mean ignoring it's flaws. I feel like I watched a television show that explored that idea one time....
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Feb 25, 2017 23:55
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Milky Moor posted:It was the weakest bomb yet, friendo, and none of that was particularly revelatory or interesting. Like, come on, meeting other Amethysts? We already knew they existed. The other Roses in bubbles? Well, they were that or they were shattered, and that reveal has amounted to precisely zero so far and Steven didn't even react to it beyond "Wow, who bubbled all these Gems?" Yellow Diamond's song was a startling waste of the talent there and very disappointing as a 'villain song'. My point was that it was setup, which isn't "treading water". Also, guessing things and actually seeing them are two different things.
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Feb 25, 2017 23:55
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There's a wide spread belief that season four is the worst season yet. Not so much because every episode is bad, but because it sort of just feels like there's not a lot going on right now. There's no real immediate threat to the heroes, nor do they have any sort of goal they're working actively towards. It feels like there's a lot of pointless meandering happening; which gets a little frustrating because there are so many interesting things that we know exist, but seem to have been forgotten about (remember Gem monsters?)
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Feb 25, 2017 23:59
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This is a show for young children An amazingly smart show for young children, which doesn't assume that children are stupid! But young children do have very short attention spans and probably mostly don't keep up on long running story arcs, and would benefit from a little repetition, and from breather episodes, and from well-intentioned if slightly heavy-handed morals (that are notable mainly for not being Very Special Episode-type morals) It just bears remembering that a big reason SU is so remarkable is that it's a kid's cartoon show. By any TV standards, it's fantastic, and by kid's cartoon standards, it's mind-blowingly good. But maybe don't expect so much nuance and darkness from it?
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Feb 26, 2017 00:04
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:My point was that it was setup, which isn't "treading water". Also, guessing things and actually seeing them are two different things. We had seen other Amethysts before. SU's current idea of 'setup' is stacking an increasing number of increasingly complex guns on an increasing number of mantelpieces, while ignoring the guns that are already there. Such as the big orange striped pair. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 00:04
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thechosenone posted:I feel like statements like this are a gotcha, since someone either likes something, and then why do they have a problem? or they don't like something, and then why are they watching? It disallows a reason to actually complain and like the show at the same time. Criticism is fine, but this was just a complaint that Milky Moor didn't like these episodes. The whole reason for that complaint seems to be 'They don't have anything of interest to say to me', which the show creators are under no obligation to provide and which people are really sick of hearing as a complaint about Steven Universe. The show is aimed at tweens who are getting into puberty and all the unknown that contains, who are just starting to experience the politics of group dynamics, and who may feel there isn't anything in the media they see and experience that relates to their experiences. I am not in that target market, and I don't find these episodes useful to me, however I understand and respect the intent of the creators, understand and respect the value that it brings to its target audience, and understand and respect the value it has to those individuals. Some people don't seem to get all that, and want the show to do other things they find more interesting. And yes, those requests vs the content of the very episode we are currently speaking about is not something I am unaware of, I'm just trying to not to call it out directly because if they didn't listen the first time, berating them about it isn't going to change anything.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:12
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Milky Moor posted:while ignoring the guns that are already there. Such as the big orange striped pair. That specific set are 24 gauge shotguns. Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 00:14
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:There's a wide spread belief that season four is the worst season yet. Not so much because every episode is bad, but because it sort of just feels like there's not a lot going on right now. There's no real immediate threat to the heroes, nor do they have any sort of goal they're working actively towards. It feels like there's a lot of pointless meandering happening; which gets a little frustrating because there are so many interesting things that we know exist, but seem to have been forgotten about (remember Gem monsters?) I think it is fine to not have a major goal right now, but they have to learn how to design an episode around that lack of a goal. Also they should totally be trying to build up defenses to deal with a possibly approaching homeworld.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:14
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EoRaptor posted:Criticism is fine, but this was just a complaint that Milky Moor didn't like these episodes. The whole reason for that complaint seems to be 'They don't have anything of interest to say to me', which the show creators are under no obligation to provide and which people are really sick of hearing as a complaint about Steven Universe. Alright? I just wish they would do something about mystery woman or something like that if they are going to ignore the sword hanging over them that is homeworld.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:17
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EoRaptor posted:Criticism is fine, but this was just a complaint that Milky Moor didn't like these episodes. The whole reason for that complaint seems to be 'They don't have anything of interest to say to me', which the show creators are under no obligation to provide and which people are really sick of hearing as a complaint about Steven Universe. I will willingly and happily post a more detailed critical breakdown about the problems of this season, particularly by comparing to the three previous seasons, if you'd like? I fear it might hurt your argument that it's just a shallow 'dislike' on my part, though. For example, dismissing criticism by implying that the show is beyond it due to being aimed at 'tweens' is a pretty big disservice to the previous seasons, as well as children in general, who really aren't stupid. More importantly, and more obviously, do you really think that 'tweens' have any concept of the stuff that the Rocknaldo episode was arguing against? It isn't 'tweens' who engage in that behavior, my friend!
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Feb 26, 2017 00:18
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Milky Moor posted:We had seen other Amethysts before. When did we see other amethysts?
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Feb 26, 2017 00:21
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If SU wants to really relate to tweens, they should do things that tweens really enjoy, which based on my experiences substitute teaching are pretty much music and meme videos. Bring on the dankness.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:22
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Milky Moor posted:I will willingly and happily post a more detailed critical breakdown about the problems of this season, particularly by comparing to the three previous seasons, if you'd like? then please do, provide the criticism I mean. Posturing does nothing. I say this to ask you to bring on the criticism since I figure it will help me to coalesce my own criticisms. I be not a sarcastic landlubber, though I do be one who suddenly shifts in ter a pirate voice for no reason me hearty.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:27
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thechosenone posted:I think it is fine to not have a major goal right now, but they have to learn how to design an episode around that lack of a goal. Also they should totally be trying to build up defenses to deal with a possibly approaching homeworld. The Crystal Gems should be doing a lot of stuff, frankly. Like, remember how they left the Rubies floating out in space and said they would rescue them later and then didn't? Or how Steven tried to heal one corrupted Gem once and despite being partially successful never tried to do it again? Or how none of them have ever said "Hey, we may have stopped the cluster for now but Yellow Diamond is still expecting it to form and sooner or later she's going to noticed that it hasn't and get suspicious/pissed. Shouldn't we make some plans and preparations for when that inevitably happens?"
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Feb 26, 2017 00:28
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T-man posted:Yeah, OK, I think it's time we addressed this. I didn't read that poster as wanting heteronormative relationships front and center, just that the anti judgemental queer positive message has felt less natural and more "THIS IS A MESSAGE". More a case of the writer getting in between the audience and the show, telling rather than showing. I don't think that's happened, and my interpretation might be wrong, but that's what I took away from those posts. Milky Moor posted:More importantly, and more obviously, do you really think that 'tweens' have any concept of the stuff that the Rocknaldo episode was arguing against? It isn't 'tweens' who engage in that behavior, my friend! Yes it is? Not necessarily with LGBT/race ally issues specifically, but joining a group they like and unconsciously acting like an rear end in a top hat by putting their happiness above everyone else's. I didn't feel super enthused about this episode, and it did seem a little too on the nose at points, but I still liked it. Also keep in mind we're only getting one episode a week; trying to draw conclusions from that seems premature to me and if I did it, a good way to mess up my zen enjoyment of the show. But that's just me. Also they had a nice little cliché fake out at the beginning with Ronaldo's first run of Ronalphlets portraying rock people as bad. For moment I thought they were going to have Ronaldo be an anti-gem racist only to be enlightened after hanging out with the gems. Which is a positive message but done to death. Luckily Ronaldo isn't THAT big of a cartoonish (ha) tool.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:40
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Shima Honnou posted:That specific set are 24 gauge shotguns. Larger gauges are actually smaller with shotguns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter)
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Feb 26, 2017 00:48
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thatbastardken posted:Larger gauges are actually smaller with shotguns I am well aware of this being a TFR poster who owns a few shotguns however the Hogan python joke only works if it's 24 of something and I had to make a choice.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:52
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Colt Pythons with custom-order 24-inch barrels.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:53
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the 24-inch big guns of the Diamond Authority Naval Service
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Feb 26, 2017 00:54
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I can definitely agree with the treading water sentiment, though I feel like there's actually plenty of interesting events happening all the time. Instead what I currently find a bit lacking is the amount character development + meaningful interactions. Steven is still hung up on what Rose did or didn't do, and we haven't had anything new added to that from since when we first learned about the shattering. Nothing new with Pearl since Mystery Woman, and even that was barely anything. Amethyst got some new perspective from the Famethysts, but that wasn't given nearly as much attention as her issues with Jasper earlier. Likewise both Lapis and Peridot have both been demoted to occasional comic relief since then. Garnet has always been a bit dull, but I feel like she got the best material out of the heist at least. We're also in a drought when it comes to character interactions. Everyone is mostly happy to drop their oneliners, but it's been a while since we've seen characters really clash or grow closer. Basically I feel like several major characters have been stuck in a weird limbo since late s3 or early s4, despite some big things happening in the overarching story. This is kind of weird, and makes stuff feel boring.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:56
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hey welcome to the show! posted:My point in all this is that I'm no longer in the target audience of this show because I typically don't care about the politics that go along with the MRA, LGBT feuds that are going on. Politics are not some theoretical space friend. They're real and effect the lives of actual human beings. Hopefully this will help you understand why the bolded is kind of super duper privileged sounding. That being said, I do think there's a reasonable point to be made in that Season 4 of Steven Universe has not managed to meld message and story as elegantly as previous seasons. To say that Steven Universe has "an agenda" is trite. All media has a message, or an agenda. That's normal. But the delivery is everything.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:00
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All this gun talk. Can I get a Pearl with a M1 Garand?
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Feb 26, 2017 01:00
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Shima Honnou posted:music and meme videos. Bring on the dankness. So a bunch of Undertale, then. Not that I'm opposed to such a course of action.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:01
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I feel like my issue with the episode is that it was just Ronaldo being lovely to everyone for 10 minutes and taking advantage of Steven being the nicest person ever. I felt really bad for everyone because of that. Also the ending where Steven tells off Ronaldo made the everything cools ending feel unearned.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:01
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Milky Moor posted:More importantly, and more obviously, do you really think that 'tweens' have any concept of the stuff that the Rocknaldo episode was arguing against? It isn't 'tweens' who engage in that behavior, my friend! Is this a joke or are you actually completely out of touch?
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Feb 26, 2017 01:02
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Who What Now posted:Is this a joke or are you actually completely out of touch? I'm a high school history teacher? Preteen kids don't go on message boards and berate people for bad 'allyship'. They're too busy watching Minecraft and PewDiePie and shouting memes at each other, telling each other how they're being triggered with zero context of the word beyond 'someone got mad about a thing'. Now, if you mean the idea that kids (literally kids, tweens, not teens) might join a group and make it all about them because they don't understand the group dynamics and are selfish, sure. It's pretty basic but, sure. Unfortunately, there was an episode two weeks ago that presented that same basic idea far more effectively, without confusing its message by jabbing at both sides of Internet fandom buttons.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:12
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I think Ronaldo may be an avatar of the five geek social fallacies, a dreadful creature only capable of destroying group dynamics. Steven's got a few of 'em in him himself, but the end of the episode shows that he can at least recognize and confront it.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:17
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Hihohe posted:All this gun talk. Can I get a Pearl with a M1 Garand? Googled "Pearl with a M1 Garand", was rewarded with:  Source: http://the-daily-laugh.tumblr.com/post/131923062910/ihate4kids-theguywiththespookysideburns (technically, I think this is a re-post, but the link there goes to a dead blog, so, this is as close as I can get)
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Feb 26, 2017 02:07
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OB_Juan posted:Googled "Pearl with a M1 Garand", was rewarded with: Garnet wearing Hulk Hands is canon. I remembered what Ronaldo calling himself Bloodstone reminded me of  twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 02:13
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This episode was not very fun. It didn't really further any development of any characters (it's possible that maybe Ronaldo developed some? But he's not really acting as a character in this instance so much as just a representation and extension of dumb nerds throughout society), and it didn't really set up anything for later, unless somehow Ronaldo's pamphlets become important. I wouldn't extend that judgement to the rest of the season though. There's still a lot to unpack from the gems' space adventure, and the rest of the season was full of fun little stories. They have been focused more on the boardies rather than missions or fights, but that's probably just because the last big threat from Homeworld is all cleaned up and done with, and the writers don't want to show Steven having trouble on missions, so we, the viewers, are being left behind on the missions just like Steven was back in season 1.
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Feb 26, 2017 02:39
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Captain Oblivious posted:Politics are not some theoretical space friend. They're real and effect the lives of actual human beings. Hopefully this will help you understand why the bolded is kind of super duper privileged sounding. I get that all media has an agenda. The point I was trying to make was that a decent amount of the new episodes felt like they were built around that message and that everything that happened (expecially in the last episode) was just padding around the point. Also I don't think that politics are theoretical. Its just that my stance on the issue is that whatever two consenting adults do with each other isn't my business. If that makes me "privileged" then so be it but I also feel it's privilege to think that everyone needs to be involved in the politics in one way or another. Im not going to stand in the way of LGBT rights because I feel that they are entitled to them. Im also not going to go out of my way to "fight for the cause". There are plenty of people who feel strongly about this that would love to fight for it.
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Feb 26, 2017 02:56
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So, I'm working on that critique, and I'm just going to point out that we've hit Episode 18 of the fourth season of Steven Universe. And Rocknaldo was a boring episode that didn't seem to know if it wanted to reiterate the lesson of The New Crystal Gems two weeks prior, poke fun at members of its own fanbase, or instruct viewers on the difference between choosing to join a cause and having the cause be your life. There was no fun in it and, frankly, the show's treatment of Ronaldo seems to border on the same meanness that made me dislike The New Lars. Remember when the Gems broke up his relationship? It's pretty bad when you compare it to the eighteenth episodes of previous seasons. Season 3 had Crack the Whip, a great episode that gave us a good insight into Amethyst and Jasper, a demonstration of Stevonnie's prowess, and some fun scenes between Steven, Connie and Amethyst in the town. Season 2 had Catch and Release, which moved along the Cluster thing and locked Peridot in the bathroom. Rocknaldo has...? Rocknaldo moves... what, forwards? What it does, is point out that Season 4 is moving very slowly, and seems to be trying to avoid letting things progress to an endgame (for example, the Gems deciding to do something about Homeworld, Steven figuring out how to heal corruption, whatever). Didn't Lauren Zuke say that there's no overarching plan for SU and that they can just stretch things out as necessary? It feels like that's what is really happening in this season. Maybe things will ramp up - I feel like Tiger Philanthropist will be a 'big' episode - but, at the moment, I think the show needs to start firing on all cylinders again as opposed to coasting along.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:12
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hey welcome to the show! posted:I get that all media has an agenda. The point I was trying to make was that a decent amount of the new episodes felt like they were built around that message and that everything that happened (expecially in the last episode) was just padding around the point. Do you think this show was attacking you personally? Because it sure sounds like it. I don't understand how you think you're being asked to do anything.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:16
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