|
D_Smart posted:Well to be fair, they've done worse than that. I mean, think about it, if I posted that it was raining in FL and one of those knuckelheads walks outside (in FL) and saw/felt it raining, he would post that it wasn't actually raining because the Sun was also shining. I've watched a curtain of rain move down my street, so beware of using Florida as any kind of rational data point, especially for weather. Or any social issues.
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 17:06 |
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I like the guy wearing cold weather clothes with flip flops. I'm the Crobbers clone from The 6th Day
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Lladre posted:That doesn't even look like Crobblers. To be fair the "Ancient technology is better then anything now" is a pretty well established trope, and it could make sense in the SC universe where people have apparently forgotten how to make the Roomba and computer controlled gun turrets. However it makes no sense when you've apparently still got the blueprints on file and can just start rolling ships off the production line again. Also, as a side note I'd love to see a video game subvert the "powerful ancient technology" trope by... like having the big bad open the ancient super weapon vault and discover it held something like bronze cannons. Sure the were terrifying at the time, but what did you expect from some bronze age sheep fuckers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Virtual Captain posted:Yes it's all bullshit but they're paying 350+ employees somehow. I have no doubt they have somekind of outside investment, and they probably use ship sales to show new investors that they are stable and have cashflow. I almost disagreed with you about the outside investors (i.e., "What institutional investor would be that stupid?"), but then I remembered that Lily Robotics got about $15 million of outside investment without having a product, too (and, much like SC, attempting to make a product that literally cannot be done with current technology at that price point).
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
Yeah, that's not looking good, is it? "What do you think is the inevitable fate of Star Citizen?" Oh, and they tried a "do over" poll which we believe was because they didn't like the 1st poll results. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:22
|
|
|
Viscous Soda posted:To be fair the "Ancient technology is better then anything now" is a pretty well established trope, and it could make sense in the SC universe where people have apparently forgotten how to make the Roomba and computer controlled gun turrets. However it makes no sense when you've apparently still got the blueprints on file and can just start rolling ships off the production line again. https://youtu.be/KoExgr3yzvg?t=16
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:22
|
|
|
If the funding counter includes VAT, and about 3/4 of the funding comes from Europe, doesn't that mean you should knock about £21 million off the funding counter to get the amount they actually have to work with?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Well, there is this individual over at the sc trading subreddit who has had posted literally 100s of threads called "Central Shipyard", in which multiples of nearly every ship in the game are being offered for sale (over the course of a year). Looks kinda suspicious to me. This would be pretty lovely on a number of levels if true. 1. The funding tracker would be bullshit (lying to backers about finances) 2. CIG would be allowing employees to essentially profit off backers in an underhanded way If I work for Apple I get a discount on their products. I doubt Apple would like it if I then bought a hundred computers and sold them on Amazon for profit. Of course, true shitizens would find a way to make it all sound fine and dandy and declare CIG to be a pioneer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
Viscous Soda posted:To be fair the "Ancient technology is better then anything now" is a pretty well established trope, and it could make sense in the SC universe where people have apparently forgotten how to make the Roomba and computer controlled gun turrets. However it makes no sense when you've apparently still got the blueprints on file and can just start rolling ships off the production line again. Set down, friend, and let me regale you with tales from the Finno-Korean Hyperwar
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
The next stage in crowd funding is to allow the crowd to individually fund the roles that they think the game needs. By allowing artists/programmers to sell the ships, they are cutting out the expensive middle man who sets up salaries/does HR and other publisher-like administration that simply sucks the creative life out of a project.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Well, there is this individual over at the sc trading subreddit who has posted literally 100s of threads (over the course of the past year) called "Central Shipyard", in which multiples of nearly every ship in the game are being offered for sale. Looks kinda suspicious to me. That's where my claims of money laundering come from. Buy ships with dirty money. Then either refund, or sell on the Grey market. Instant clean money. CIG may have caught onto it; hence the recent ID requirements for refunds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:I almost disagreed with you about the outside investors (i.e., "What institutional investor would be that stupid?"), but then I remembered that Lily Robotics got about $15 million of outside investment without having a product, too (and, much like SC, attempting to make a product that literally cannot be done with current technology at that price point). Theranos; Dec, 2016 undisclosed amount / Venture — — 1 Mar, 2015 $348.5M / Private Equity — — 9 Feb, 2014 $198.9M / Private Equity — — 0 Sep, 2013 $50M / Undisclosed — Walgreens 1 Jul, 2010 $45M / Venture — — 0 Nov, 2006 $28.5M / Series C — — 4 Feb, 2006 $9.1M / Series B — — 1 Feb, 2005 $5.8M / Series A — — 0 Jun, 2004 $500k / Seed — Draper Fisher Jurvetson (DFJ) 1 Fools and their money, etc. Edit: Total estimated value was $725M, but they're currently facing a couple of lawsuits for $240M with about $200M left in the bank. They're working on a 'minilab' concept rather than the 'single-drop' test that made everyone who knew anything about blood panels laugh like drains. Hav fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
Hav posted:Theranos; Yup. But to Ms. Holmes credit, she surrounded herself with very big names (in government, etc.) and con
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
Viscous Soda posted:To be fair the "Ancient technology is better then anything now" is a pretty well established trope, and it could make sense in the SC universe where people have apparently forgotten how to make the Roomba and computer controlled gun turrets. However it makes no sense when you've apparently still got the blueprints on file and can just start rolling ships off the production line again. Need I remind you in Cribblers infinite vision , one of the enemy space ships has a giant gently caress off blade dangling off the side ?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Achamp posted:This would be pretty lovely on a number of levels if true. It's actually quite funny when you think about it CIG is robbing itself blind by letting employees take ALL the profit with zero cash coming into development with these giveaways Unless that's the whole point- making employees into willing active participants in the scam, from the law's point of view That would be really lovely
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
Alright you guys got me to play in Citizen land a little. That Hurricane ship was made/developed 200 years ago, and is the Anvil Hurricane. Current Star Citizen year is apparently 2945. That would put the ship design at 2745. Anvil Aerospace was apparently founded in 2772. Anvil didn't even exist when they made this ship? So uh, I don't know. Lore masters got to lore? Maybe somebody more in the know can correct my 45 seconds of googling.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I like the guy wearing cold weather clothes with flip flops. I don't know who those people are but they aren't backers on a visit as they aren't wearing SQ42 t-shirts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:Alright you guys got me to play in Citizen land a little. "It's bullshit. All of it."
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Achamp posted:This would be pretty lovely on a number of levels if true. I used to work for a manufacturing company and they scored places like eBay for employees selling gifted/discount stuff from their jobs. They were fired if discovered. But CIG isn't exactly a core of morality and honesty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
cool new Polack jokes posted:It's actually quite funny when you think about it Just gaming out this little "hypothesis," I would allege that sales to real backers are way down and they decided the only way to keep raising money (and looking like a good investment to the extent they are trying to bring in true outside investors) was to discount the ships. But they can't discount the ships on the primary market (or else the backers will lose their minds). So instead, they using willing "middlemen" (like employees) to sell discounted ships on the secondary grey market (with the middlemen getting a cut). Just a thought. Of course, this hypothesis might be totally off-base and just my way of try to rationalize the completely irrational fundraising I see happening with this vaporware game. MinorInconvenience fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
cool new Polack jokes posted:It's actually quite funny when you think about it What if the "employees" are in on the scam. They don't really have many programmers or artists, but 250 con men and a small handful of people who kinda know how to make a game and are good at turning a blind eye. That would explain the glacial pace of production and the hideous amount of conning and lying going on. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/836287203865088003 Huge milestone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Yup. But to Ms. Holmes credit, she surrounded herself with very big names (in government, etc.) and con No, gently caress her. She's destroyed confidence in anyone else that actually comes up with a decent prototype. More seriously, there's a particular way of looking at the world today that relies on marketing stretching what any reasonable person would call an 'objective truth' in order to get paid and this isn't entirely prosecuted to the fullest extent because people hide behind the concept of _knowingly lying_ being difficult to prove against _honest mistake_. Theranos didn't manage to even come close to explaining how they'd achieve the impossible despite people asking the questions; trade secrets notwithstanding. Same poo poo for Star Citizen; I was interested to see how they'd surmount the technical issues. Answer is that they haven't. Same poo poo for the laser razor; there are specific problems inherent to the idea that stop it being a reality. Effectively they're all the same poo poo writ large - Give me some money now and I'll probably give you something of higher value later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
cool new Polack jokes posted:"It's bullshit. All of it." You would at least assume that the guys whose only job is "write fake poo poo" and produce nothing of value towards the game itself could actually check over their dates and plans. They literally have loremasters who are trying to do these things. It's just all poo poo, all the way down. Nobody cares there. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
They care about money and how to get more of it. Sorry, can't forget that. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
Hav posted:No, gently caress her. She's destroyed confidence in anyone else that actually comes up with a decent prototype. Yes. I believe the technical term for all of it is "Fake it 'til you make it." (And please don't misunderstand me, I was not defending her.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Yes. I believe the technical term for all of it is "Fake it 'til you make it." It's all good, brah. The problem is that many people fake it until they make it, but they at least have a chance of making it. There's also something to be said for knowing your limitations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:01
|
|
|
What I predict will be the fate of CIG/RSI/F42 over in the UK https://www.ft.com/content/4e710e1e-fcfc-11e6-8d8e-a5e3738f9ae4 archive D_Smart fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Yup. But to Ms. Holmes credit, she surrounded herself with very big names (in government, etc.) and con Always nice to see a fresh face, please share your Star Citizen story
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
Achamp posted:This would be pretty lovely on a number of levels if true. Well, if you think about it, there is a limit to the size of the discount that Apple can give to it's employees. It would probably top out at the total cost of manufacturing the product, just parts and labor, no profit margin from employees. Apple would be rightly pissed if somebody was flipping products on the side. They are losing profit. CIG does not have to worry about manufacturing a drat thing. Most ships are drawings with some made up stats. The discount can be what ever keeps ships moving out the door. Even if you lose 30% for selling a ship to an employee who sells it to a backer, you still get to put the whole price on the scoreboard. That is the true value here. It's the confidence that you're getting by moving as many ships as possible, even at a discount. Confidence is the real currency CIG is running on. It's what keeps people buying and keeps them from refunding. As soon as the confidence runs out, everything grinds to a halt. Employees profiting off this is pretty much what they've always been doing. They're getting money from backers to work for CIG. Whether it's from making coffee, designing ships, or making animations OR from dealing discounted ships to backers, it's pretty much the same. It's about the same level of scamming to me. Except that maybe employees would be stuck with 50k worth of ships that they can't unload when this all goes under. Which would be like getting paid in CIG stock that suddenly became worthless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
hot balls man no homo posted:Confidence is the real currency CIG is running on. It's what keeps people buying and keeps them from refunding. As soon as the confidence runs out, everything grinds to a halt. Sounds like a penny-stock pump-and-dump scam using the employees as the stock sellers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:Alright you guys got me to play in Citizen land a little. Obviously the original maker went out of business and Anvil acquired the design for pennies on the dollar. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:Alright. You may not believe this, but it's 110% true. I remember that night. I was outside in the parking lot hacking the network. As a Star Citizen backer, I know I am smarter than anyone, including the government, and I was in desperate need of more sweet, sweet JPeGs, so I had a deal to sell the top secret FEMA prison camp plans to the Russians. I had just set up my seventh proxy, when I heard an engine and saw a bright flash...
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Always nice to see a fresh face, please share your Star Citizen story Nothing dramatic, I'm afraid. Backed the Kickstarter many, many moons ago at a low level ($37). Basically forgot about it until I saw the Hellion game go into early access and got curious about the state of Star Citizen. I googled and found so much insanity. So like in response to any good car accident, I have pumped my breaks and started rubbernecking.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Nothing dramatic, I'm afraid. Backed the Kickstarter many, many moons ago at a low level ($37). Basically forgot about it until I saw the Hellion game go into early access and got curious about the state of Star Citizen. I googled and found so much insanity. So like in response to any good car accident, I have pumped my breaks and started rubbernecking. Welcome to the party, pal! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
Viscous Soda posted:To be fair the "Ancient technology is better then anything now" is a pretty well established trope, and it could make sense in the SC universe where people have apparently forgotten how to make the Roomba and computer controlled gun turrets. However it makes no sense when you've apparently still got the blueprints on file and can just start rolling ships off the production line again. You'll like this: http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/20/final-fantasys-first-ultima-spell-useless/ A japanese programmer enforced "reality" in a RPG and made the an ancient piece of wizard tech crap.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
cool new Polack jokes posted:It's actually quite funny when you think about it Well I doubt employees could get THAT much money from this sort of tactic, simply because the grey market is only so big. You can't have 200 employees trying to sell grey market items on r/starcitizen_trades. The site just isn't that active (though I'm not sure what the other big hubs are). You could definitely supplement the tracker though, and since it is free to hand out jpegs to staff they don't really have any incentive NOT to do this except for leaks. There are 360 employees. Even if each employee got a ship for 1 buck every time a new one came out (at an average premium price of $150), the funding tracker would only jump $52,500 per ship release. That's not much in the overall funding if you believe their tracker. You'd have to multiply these numbers quite a bit to come up with say $500,000 or $1,000,000 per ship release. Even then you'd have a distribution problem. I can't imagine people could unload all those ships.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Achamp posted:There are 360 employees. Even if each employee got a ship for 1 buck every time a new one came out (at an average premium price of $150), the funding tracker would only jump $52,500 per ship release. That's not much in the overall funding if you believe their tracker. You'd have to multiply these numbers quite a bit to come up with say $500,000 or $1,000,000 per ship release. Even then you'd have a distribution problem. I can't imagine people could unload all those ships. Well, if the numbers are real and correct then real backers are buying those ships at full price on the primary market. Thus, Croberts is able to unload those ships if this is all real. If it isn't real, the secondary market would necessarily be smaller/cheaper than the aforementioned potentially real primary market. Does that make sense? Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I posit that it is more believable that the ships are being sold at a discount on the secondary market than whales buying on the primary market.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
MinorInconvenience posted:Well, if the numbers are real and correct then real backers are buying those ships at full price on the primary market. Thus, Croberts is able to unload those ships if this is all real. If it isn't real, the secondary market would necessarily be smaller/cheaper than the aforementioned potentially real primary market. Does that make sense? But the primary market gives you option to refund, even if it is past the new ironclad TOS date. Are people really risking losing everything just to save a bit of cash on a ship? Is the faith strong enough to buy without a refund option but still not strong enough to give the full amount to CIG?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 17:06 |
|
|
How about this CIG releases a new concept jpg for $250 , limited to 1000 or whatever number they make up Within a few days / hours they show all the 1000 have been sold (but they haven't) Mena while at CIG hq they've sold 900 to the staff , at 75% off. Cig staff now head to the grey market , eBay , wherever, and sell their 900 ships to the general public (or more likely one of the big ship middle men) for 50% of the original msrp (or 25% more than what the cig employee paid) Idiot shill or Internet spaceship collector buys it thinking wow 25% off I made out like a bandit ! Meanwhile cig claims the sale at full price , the employee pockets their 25% off the entire transaction, and the shill continues to praise the crobberts
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:05
|
|