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straight up brolic posted:Whose shooting would you rather have Josh Jackson shooting 30 something percent from three and 55% from the line or DeAaron Fox shooting 17% from three and 74% from the line? NBA coaching should improve both of these percentages though.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:37
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Khagan posted:NBA coaching should improve both of these percentages though. I mean, most bad free throw shooters will stay bad free throw shooters for their entire careers. Three point shooting can be improved more easily. But expecting a dude who shoots 17% to become passable is a bit of a fools errand.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:51
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The list of guys who were terrible ft shooters but good 3 point shooters is not a very long one. You'll occasionally get a Bruce Bowen who trains himself to just hit corner 3s but there tends to be a strong correlation.
MourningView fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 17:13
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Didn't think bad FT shot mechanics could be that hard to correct.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:54
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Khagan posted:Didn't think bad FT shot mechanics could be that hard to correct. It's not always mechanics. *insert lakers free throw practice numbers here*
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Mar 2, 2017 17:55
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Khagan posted:Didn't think bad FT shot mechanics could be that hard to correct. You'd think that but years of evidence suggests otherwise.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:56
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Khagan posted:Didn't think bad FT shot mechanics could be that hard to correct. 
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Mar 2, 2017 17:57
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Khagan posted:Didn't think bad FT shot mechanics could be that hard to correct. it's more that shooting 37% 3pt/55% ft the free throw % is so low, considering the shot is unguarded, it calls into question if the relatively high 3pt % is a fluke and whether the player can make jumpers in a game situation Justise Winslow shot 41.8% 3pt / 64.1% ft in college and can't hit a jumper in the NBA to save his life
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Mar 2, 2017 18:24
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Winslow was also ungodly awful on 2 point jumpers in college, which was another thing pointing to his 3 pt% being a fluke. Not sure how Jackson is on those
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Mar 2, 2017 18:28
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IcePhoenix posted:It's not always mechanics. That can easily be chalked up to Dwight putting stick'em on his hands.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:19
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ragle posted:it's more that shooting 37% 3pt/55% ft Forgot to mention if Jackson's and Fox's %s are bad for their position relative to your average NBA player with a couple years experience. Yeah I know Centers are generally poor at the stripe.
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Mar 2, 2017 21:33
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Doltos posted:That can easily be chalked up to Dwight putting stick'em on his hands. That's still one of my favorite things in the last few years.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:06
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Khagan posted:Forgot to mention if Jackson's and Fox's %s are bad for their position relative to your average NBA player with a couple years experience. Yeah I know Centers are generally poor at the stripe. Generally the benchmarks are 30% on 3s and 60% on FTs. Anything lower is A Problem, regardless of position.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:14
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And what, really, is the upper limit of improvement in the pros? I can think of a quite a few cases of guys who went from low 30s 3pt% to being sharpshooters, but only a small handful who dramatically improved at the line (Karl Malone notoriously went from a Shaq esque trash shooter in college and his rookie year to slightly below average, and Chris Webber and Tyson Chandler made big leaps from bad to above average, but not until they'd been in the league for nearly a decade). Really in either case you're talking probably a 10% upper limit realistically, which is a much bigger relative improvement from 3.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:44
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Blake Griffin is 52% in year 2 to 75%
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Mar 3, 2017 01:11
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Derrick Rose 70% in college to 86%
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Mar 3, 2017 01:12
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straight up brolic posted:Blake Griffin is 52% in year 2 to 75% Griffin shot like 59% in college but that's still another good example. Rose is bizarre because these jumps are almost NEVER guards: almost every time it's a big man. I can't find anyone who's done the same work scraping colege bball reference and comparing and I don't have the time, but I think Rose is likely to be an extreme aberration.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:39
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To me the question isn't if Jackson will learn to hit threes, but if he is still going to be able to get to the basket in the NBA.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:15
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Rick posted:To me the question isn't if Jackson will learn to hit threes, but if he is still going to be able to get to the basket in the NBA. Hitting threes would help a lot with that.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:19
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DeimosRising posted:Hitting threes would help a lot with that. Seconding this, he has the athletism and passing already. A good 3-ball would ensure the triple threat.
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Mar 3, 2017 10:31
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Rick posted:To me the question isn't if Jackson will learn to hit threes, but if he is still going to be able to get to the basket in the NBA. It's not like there's an abundance of dudes that can match him in frame and footspeed. He's going to get bullied in the paint until he puts on more weight but he's a skilled passer and has a floater and some spin moves at his disposal. If he's aggressive enough he shouldn't have more than the normal adjustment period in the NBA. DeimosRising posted:And what, really, is the upper limit of improvement in the pros? I can think of a quite a few cases of guys who went from low 30s 3pt% to being sharpshooters, but only a small handful who dramatically improved at the line (Karl Malone notoriously went from a Shaq esque trash shooter in college and his rookie year to slightly below average, and Chris Webber and Tyson Chandler made big leaps from bad to above average, but not until they'd been in the league for nearly a decade). Really in either case you're talking probably a 10% upper limit realistically, which is a much bigger relative improvement from 3. Tim Duncan bounced between 59 and 80% for his career but settled around 70% towards the end.
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Mar 5, 2017 07:21
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Yeah that's what I tend to believe. I all the time see people saying "well what about Winslow, Stanley Johnson" and like, I get the comparison, but Jackson's just so much more skilled than they were in college in finishing in a wide variety of manners. -- I'm currently falling into a homer trap with Markkanen but man I really love this dude. I mean like we know what he can do offensively but he just defensively shut ASU down today. I guess they aren't exactly a talent laden but like dude was just wreaking havoc on them.
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Mar 5, 2017 08:38
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EvanTH posted:I'm sayin' that scouting was largely correct, to this day, despite his years of insanity training and recovery with breathing tubes suspended inside a plexiglass tube filled with a mysterious green fluid he's still a below average shooter and it only doesn't matter because of God-like ability at everything else A quick look at basketball reference shows LeBron has a career 50% shooting percentage, and from to 2009-present it's well over 50%. That doesn't sound below average to me.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:55
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Charlz Guybon posted:A quick look at basketball reference shows LeBron has a career 50% shooting percentage, and from to 2009-present it's well over 50%. That doesn't sound below average to me. They mean jump shooter. He's always been a terror shooting at or close to the rim.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:58
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Kibner posted:They mean jump shooter. He's always been a terror shooting at or close to the rim. Fun fact, Lebron is shooting 77% at the rim this year!
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Mar 6, 2017 16:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:A quick look at basketball reference shows LeBron has a career 50% shooting percentage, and from to 2009-present it's well over 50%. That doesn't sound below average to me. Straight FG% isn't a good metric of someone's shooting ability because it doesn't account for shot selection. The highest FG% in the league is typically held by a center like Deandre Jordan who doesn't take shots from more than a few feet out. League average 3p shooting has hovered around .350-.360 over the last 15 years or so. LeBron shot ~.330 from three over his first 8 years the league, but he's improved to .367 over his last five years. LeBron is perpetually a few points below league average in FT% and his playoffs 3p% sinks to ~.320. He's one of the greatest finishers in league history around the rim (personal opinion, don't have stats to back it up. Jordan was better), and one of the best at putting the ball in the hoop (TS% this season is .617, Curry's is .619) but shooting is not one of his strengths, and in the past has been about his only weakness (aside from deliberately overheated arenas). I think Kevin Durant is better at putting the ball in the hoop than any other player I have ever seen, better than Jordan or LeBron, but he can't pass like LeBron or defend like either of them.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:19
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Durant and Lebron are both supernaturally good finishers at the rim. Min 3 shot attempts per game in the restricted area:  Durant and Lebron and then a load of centers.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:43
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I don't know what's more shocking - Jerryd Bayless' presence on that list, or that he's only 28 years old.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:56
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Gobias Ind. posted:I don't know what's more shocking - Jerryd Bayless' presence on that list, or that he's only 28 years old. He's had perpetual old man look for years
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Mar 7, 2017 01:25
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I can see the Markelle Fultz D'angelo "The Mussel" Russell comparisons. They both play point in the same sort of smooth and cool way, everything looks really relaxed and they sort of bop with the ball. Markelle is just more athletic, faster, bouncier, and better, better at getting to the basket, better at shooting, just better, maybe not a better passer, but it's washington, so who knows.
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Mar 11, 2017 18:19
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Now LaMarcus is out with a heart arrhythmia
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Mar 11, 2017 18:23
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Gobias Ind. posted:I don't know what's more shocking - Jerryd Bayless' presence on that list, or that he's only 28 years old. Wait he's younger than me? What the actual gently caress.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:28
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Dejan Bimble posted:I can see the Markelle Fultz D'angelo "The Mussel" Russell comparisons. They both play point in the same sort of smooth and cool way, everything looks really relaxed and they sort of bop with the ball. Markelle is just more athletic, faster, bouncier, and better, better at getting to the basket, better at shooting, just better, maybe not a better passer, but it's washington, so who knows. Fultz is really built to destroy the modern NBA defenses provided his knee is not a permanent issue or that he's not slower than we think because he's going against college dudes. But yeah if the Lakers get him via some miracle (I don't trust them to draft him even if they get the first anymore) he would probably be more likely to be the offensive guard with D'Angelo still passing. Rick fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 22:40
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Rick posted:Fultz is really built to destroy the modern NBA defenses provided his knee is not a permanent issue or that he's not slower than we think because he's going against college dudes. I can see that happening, it's essentially running the good passing not quite so quick or strong or athletic baby James Harden who's a good passer at pg while the not root beer barrel shaped James Harden who never the less can pass starts the play without the ball, and the distraction of him alone could lead to lots of easy baskets and open threes. The fact they both shoot threes really well off the dirbble would probably trigger a that's not fair clause and default the pick to the last rigged winner, The Cleveland Cavaliers. Any team who drafts josh jackson and expects him to be a good three point shooter might be in for a shock. His shooting form is bad, and not bad in that he needs to turn his body a quarter of a circle to shoot, like Lonzo Ball, but that he almost has to hold the balll at arms length to measure the distance to the hoop before he shoots. The spotVU studies say that defender distance for an open three is 4 feet. And if he's giving them an extra 1.5 feet, hes going to have a hard time finding a comfortable open three. And if you can only make wide open threes yet you're athletic and long and so on, that makes you Reggie Bullock. That's ignoring Jackson's defense and pasing and so on, of course.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:48
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Ouch, that is rough on the shooting predictions for Jackson. It is unfair, he was perfect for the 90s where the ability to get to the basket was king.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:29
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Josh Jackson is a less broken MKG, which is a borderline all-star player.
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Mar 12, 2017 20:35
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straight up brolic posted:Josh Jackson is a less broken MKG, which is a borderline all-star player. I think MKG is the star I have seen the least so maybe this is why I am not thinking of it.
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Mar 12, 2017 20:50
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Depending on fit I think he may actually still go #1 after the combine etc...teams will talk themselves into him
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Mar 12, 2017 20:53
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Doltos posted:Bonzie Colson is a new age Barkley Had an amazing game in the ACC finals and showed a great outside game as well. However just seems like he 100% will not translate into an NBA player. What does everyone think of Jayson Tatum? He had a pretty amazing ACC tournament.
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Mar 12, 2017 21:07
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straight up brolic posted:Depending on fit I think he may actually still go #1 after the combine etc...teams will talk themselves into him If he shoots well over the tournament, summer, etc. someone definitely might, especially if there are any serious doubts about Fultz's knee or Ball's shot. He's a good defender, great passer, smart, athletic, good on and off the ball, etc.
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Mar 12, 2017 21:53
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