|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 05:03 |
|
|
Im adding this to the OP.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 05:06
|
|
|
Teenage Mutant Democratic Socialists
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 05:07
|
|
|
thing
ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 22:08 on Sep 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 05:38
|
|
|
Yeah, saw that up on FB and every comment was garbage so I actually read it and didn't see anything objectionable or controversial in what she wrote. People sure are angry on the internet though. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 08:21
|
|
|
angry about socialism, on the internet
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 09:16
|
|
|
Actually Chavez owned, Maduro sucks. Though Chavez did hand-pick him. So maybe Chavez also sucks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 14:56
|
|
|
 
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:13
|
|
|
Chavez owns and if you think someone owns but has bad opinions you should think about how bad the bad opinions truly are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
chavez in fact emphatically did not own and was a corrupt thieving kleptocrat who knew how to say the right things to make leftists abroad like him. he destroyed his country and set the cause of socialism back decades and i celebrated when he died. the fact that he was right about some things (American imperialism) does not erase that he was not enacting socialism but simply recreating authoritarianism. do not fall victim to the same mistakes that socialists have made in the past. this is a personal issue to me because my wife fled a South American dictatorship as a child. she is a socialist as well but sees through chavismo bullshit. i also live on an island 500-odd miles off the coast of Venezuela and we get refugees fleeing their collapsing state here. they are not bourgeoisie, they are poor and desperate and they spit when they hear chavez's name. this isn't a respectability politics thing, Chavez was a murderous criminal and his death is one of the best things to happen to socialism in the past decade. it's not a matter of bad opinions either. you can't be a socialist and support American imperial war abroad, and you can't be a socialist and support authoritarian dictators either. the fact that a lot of chavez's harshest critics were warmongering American corporate scum doesn't mean he was a good guy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:chavez in fact emphatically did not own and was a corrupt thieving kleptocrat who knew how to say the right things to make leftists abroad like him. he destroyed his country and set the cause of socialism back decades and i celebrated when he died. the fact that he was right about some things (American imperialism) does not erase that he was not enacting socialism but simply recreating authoritarianism. do not fall victim to the same mistakes that socialists have made in the past. wow i didn't know chavez was responsible for oil prices collapsing and bankrupting venezuela's social systems
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
Also plz move the chavez talk to the not underground leftist thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
Fiction posted:wow i didn't know chavez was responsible for oil prices collapsing and bankrupting venezuela's social systems "well poverty has been reduced by 30% and extreme poverty cut in half, but did you hear he shut down that TV station that literally backed a coup against him?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
Fiction posted:wow i didn't know chavez was responsible for oil prices collapsing and bankrupting venezuela's social systems no he was responsible for funneling huge amounts of money that was supposedly going to socialist programs to his cronies, empowering and protecting narco traffickers to raise money to cover the shortfall, covering up the resultant crime wave and harassing victims into silence, corrupting elections beyond all recognition with state funds, funding FARC, crushing his critics (including trade unions and any labor groups he felt were a threat to his power), and filled the government with a legion of corrupt thieves who got rich off extortion and hoarding. he may have started with good intentions but after the 2002 coup attempt he got steadily more unhinged and began justifying anything he did as anti-imperialist. i've met with people who were kidnapped multiple times in a year by criminals who had the implicit backing of the regime. one guy escaped incompetent kidnappers and went to the police who delivered him right back to the gang, who cut off his hand and killed him. his cousin fled after that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
FARC are leftist revolutionaries who wouldn't even exist if the Colombian government didn't murder every leftist politician who tries to play by the rules.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:37
|
|
|
zegermans posted:FARC are leftist revolutionaries who wouldn't even exist if the Colombian government didn't murder every leftist politician who tries to play by the rules. they're murdering drug traffickers who use child soldiers, the fact that they're nominally leftist doesn't excuse that. there are plenty of leftist movements in Latin America that don't keep comfort women. zegermans posted:"well poverty has been reduced by 30% and extreme poverty cut in half, but did you hear he shut down that TV station that literally backed a coup against him?" and now things are worse than ever. when oil prices collapsed not every petrostate collapsed. venezuela did because the whole thing was a house of cards propped up to allow chavez and co to enrich themselves from the country's treasury. i've been trying to organize down here, talking to respected figures in the labor community, and it's hard going because socialism is such a toxic word to people who fled venezuela. these aren't bourgie white people afraid of the red menace, they're the poorest and most in need of socialism but all socialism means to them is $10 for a pound of rice and armed men coming in the night.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
lmao I'm getting flashbacks to DND, where dudes who actually lived in Venezuela were called objectively wrong by dumb kids because they said Chavez was actually kinda poo poo
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
mhhmm yes, roght after a page about self policing and making sure toxic poo poo doesnt take root we will now defend a poo poo politician while ignoring his numerous flaws by the way holodomor is a myth and furthermore lysenkoism is right
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:mhhmm yes, roght after a page about self policing and making sure toxic poo poo doesnt take root we will now defend a poo poo politician while ignoring his numerous flaws i bet you agree with sanctions against north korea too
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
I have no doubt that plenty of people in Venezuela thought Chavez was poo poo, but I think its also poo poo to claim that he was an over all bad person when time after time there were popular uprisings to defend him from CIA/international corporation backed coups and 'student' protests. It is indisputable that Chavez did a ton of good, all you have to do is look at the increases in literacy. I think though, that Chavez fell into a trap that a lot of socialist leaders fall into. They're afraid to set their babies free. Its a very legitimate fear, especially when the US is responsible for coups and other clandestine activities against you and you can bet big money on your opposition being funded by those same CIA or international corporations. Another good example right now is Ecuador. I have family there who loathes Correa because they're rich fucks who owned land, and now that land is being used by indigenous people to live instead of rich people to just look at. So gently caress them. gently caress rich people who have poo poo and aren't willing to give it up so that others can have better lives. I also have trouble trusting any of the media that comes out of Venezuela, chances are by the time it gets to us its been distorted simply because Venezuela was moving away from the US and capitalism with its policies and redistributing wealth by nationalizing oil. I also have trouble trusting anyone who says Chavez was poo poo because chances are they were probably a rich gently caress or have bought into rich gently caress propaganda. Doorknob Slobber has issued a correction as of 17:27 on Mar 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
Hey I made a thread to argue about how Chavez was bad/not bad. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3812553 It's something I like arguing about but this probably isn't the place for it. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 17:31 on Mar 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
zegermans posted:Actually Chavez owned, Maduro sucks. Though Chavez did hand-pick him. So maybe Chavez also sucks. This is your fault, you bastard.  and stayout drat you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:29
|
|
|
Quote is not edit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:31
|
|
|
Doorknob Slobber posted:I also have trouble trusting anyone who says Chavez was poo poo because chances are they were probably a rich gently caress or have bought into rich gently caress propaganda.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:35
|
|
|
ChickenOfTomorrow posted:ETA ok who itt reported us to National: http://www.dsausa.org/de_dudeing_socialism Emily Robinson owns hell yea
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Chavez was an enemy of socialism and the working class.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he was an overall bad person or whether he was overall good for the country. It just means the US (as it is wont to do) managed to shoot themselves in the foot and empower him even further. Maybe its reactionary, but for the most part whenever I see the US and corporate backed interests aligned against something I feel like its probably ok to look at it and go, well, maybe it isn't so bad. Its indisputable that Chavez improved the lives of the vast majority of Venezuelans. In my view, over time, as a direct result of foreign intervention he began to become protectionist and authoritarian. Because of foreign interventions and bad economic decisions, mainly the reliance on oil instead of investing in alternatives, the country became increasingly unstable. Whether you want to lay the blame of that solely on Chavez or foreign intervention is up to you, and again I think that is Chavez's biggest failing, but I also think its completely understandable when your country is facing the kind of opposition brought to bear against Chavez. There is a lot that points to the violence going on in Venezuela as being the result of class warfare backed by foreign money and even probably training. And again when you look at Ecuador and the rest of South America, I believe it. Indigenous peoples especially are considered second class citizens in many countries in South America and things are very much divided along class lines.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
Doorknob Slobber posted:Maybe its reactionary, but for the most part whenever I see the US and corporate backed interests aligned against something I feel like its probably ok to look at it and go, well, maybe it isn't so bad. Its indisputable that Chavez improved the lives of the vast majority of Venezuelans. In my view, over time, as a direct result of foreign intervention he began to become protectionist and authoritarian. Because of foreign interventions and bad economic decisions, mainly the reliance on oil instead of investing in alternatives, the country became increasingly unstable. citing telesur to back up claims of us intervention in Venezuela is like citing breitbart to back up claims of crimes committed by immigrants just FYI
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:03
|
|
|
Now post that here so I don't feel bad about arguing with it: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3812553
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
From a purely tactical standpoint it's probably best to not hitch too many proverbial horses to figures most Americans only understand in the sense of being "bad for some reason." After all I think most of us aren't pushing for single ruler implementations of socialist ideology anyway, hence the Democratic in the organization title.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:citing telesur to back up claims of us intervention in Venezuela is like citing breitbart to back up claims of crimes committed by immigrants just FYI At least I'm citing anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
Please take it literally anywhere else on the forums except this thread OK thanks!!!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
How does one get into the rocketchat?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
lessthankyle posted:How does one get into the rocketchat? Knowing the right people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
lessthankyle posted:How does one get into the rocketchat? Patience, luck, and submitting to the form multiple times, in my experience.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
I'll stick to loudly saying "I WISH WE HAD A SLACK" at every meeting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
I got into the chat 
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
lessthankyle posted:I'll stick to loudly saying "I WISH WE HAD A SLACK" at every meeting. I heard that they decided slack was too expensive?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 05:03 |
|
|
lancemantis posted:I heard that they decided slack was too expensive? Most likely. I'm fine with RC, I just want to give them a reason to shut me up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 22:30
|
|