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Look, I worked in a comic book store in the '90s, when Rob Liefeld was ruining superhero art, and I still never lost my love for idiots in spandex thumping each other. If I could survive that, I can survive this. I mean, it still can't be any worse than Batman Vs Superman, a movie which managed to make Bruce Wayne actually stupid.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:24
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That this thing doesn't even have good fight scenes seems like it's biggest sin. How do you screw that up in your kung fu show?
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Mar 8, 2017 18:26
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They can use Shang Chi, but they just cant use his fathers name. Which makes it drat hard to tell a shang chi story as like 90% of his stories revolve around the fact that his father is Fu Manchu. I think there have been reletvely recent comics where his father was only refered to obliquely or under a pseudonym but thatkind of only works if your audience knows what is being hinted at. Of course its possible that the rights issues could have changed since the last time I looked it up which was ages ago now. The other thing is, Shang chi, well.... as much as "Make Iron Fist asian-american" would have been (I think anyway) be a good step for the character (and the marvel universe in general), doing that or giving us Shang Chi would still have us in a position where Marvels first Asian main character is kung fu dude. I mean, still way better than "We have no asian main characters", but still not really breaking any stereotypes. Again its a problem with the source as much as anything else; If a comicbook character isnt a white north american then there is something like a 2 outta 3 chance that their gimmick is based on racial or national stereotypes (See; Captain Boomerang, Banshee, silver samurai, Jubilee (who, while being asian-american and not kung-fu has the power of fireworks, the Mandarin, apache chief, assorted "Captain Country"s, the black widow, crimson dynamo, red guardian and so on and so forth.).
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Mar 8, 2017 18:34
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Huh isn't Fu Manchu in the Public Domain by now?
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Mar 8, 2017 18:41
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achillesforever6 posted:Huh isn't Fu Manchu in the Public Domain by now? I would have assumed so as well, but the way they dance around it there is obviously some impediment. If I remember right it was something like the original book is, but later books (and anything introduced in them) isnt, or something like that? I am not in any way shape or form an expert on copyright law so maybe dont quote me on that. I mean in all fairness even if he was in the public domain he is the literal embodiment of the "Yellow Peril" archetype even more so than the mandarin, and marvel made the (very smart in my opinion) decision that the comicbook version of the mandarin would not fly in a major motion picture in 2017.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:59
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Should've just cast a Middle Eastern or Latino actor as Iron Fist
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Mar 8, 2017 19:00
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SiKboy posted:They can use Shang Chi, but they just cant use his fathers name. Which makes it drat hard to tell a shang chi story as like 90% of his stories revolve around the fact that his father is Fu Manchu. I think there have been reletvely recent comics where his father was only refered to obliquely or under a pseudonym but thatkind of only works if your audience knows what is being hinted at. Of course its possible that the rights issues could have changed since the last time I looked it up which was ages ago now. I can only talk about this from being black, but even though every black hero seems to ride a skateboard, uses electricity, and/or has the word black before their title, I'm still happy to see them in the funny books/screen. It's a step up and better than not being represented at all. It's especially better than having entertainment monopolized by bland white guys.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:04
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Why isn't Iron Fist Asian anyways? Like the defenders is set up to be the diversity superhero group except they lost it at Iron Fist.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:04
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Invalid Validation posted:Why isn't Iron Fist Asian anyways? Like the defenders is set up to be the diversity superhero group except they lost it at Iron Fist. Because David Carradine is white.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:05
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Mameluke posted:Should've just cast a Middle Eastern or Latino actor as Iron Fist This guy gets it
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Mar 8, 2017 19:07
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SiKboy posted:They can use Shang Chi, but they just cant use his fathers name. Which makes it drat hard to tell a shang chi story as like 90% of his stories revolve around the fact that his father is Fu Manchu. I think there have been reletvely recent comics where his father was only refered to obliquely or under a pseudonym but thatkind of only works if your audience knows what is being hinted at. Of course its possible that the rights issues could have changed since the last time I looked it up which was ages ago now. I wanna see Amadeus Cho. Let him play the Rick Jones part until Ruffallo wants to retire, then Hulk-ify him.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:10
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Nobby posted:I wanna see Amadeus Cho. Let him play the Rick Jones part until Ruffallo wants to retire, then Hulk-ify him. I think in the novelization, the guy that Banner bribes with the pizza is identified as Amadeus Cho in Incredible Hulk.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:13
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A POC headlining this disaster would probably land them in casting jail anyway, so they're probably better off. Somehow, the Dexter dude will manage to find work in the future.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:36
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ufarn posted:Everyone's panning it like it's the Ghost in the Shell of TV. The only thing complimented is, of course, the supporting cast who as always pick up the slack. As far as I know the guys running Defenders are the same showrunners on DD season 2, so there will probably be a lovely boring love triangle and a magical enhanced Asian.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:38
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Shageletic posted:I can only talk about this from being black, but even though every black hero seems to ride a skateboard, uses electricity, and/or has the word black before their title, I'm still happy to see them in the funny books/screen. It's a step up and better than not being represented at all. It's especially better than having entertainment monopolized by bland white guys. I'm so white I'm practically translucent, so I'll cheerfully cede the point that even iffy representation is better than none, and I didnt mean to imply otherwise. I just kind of feel that rather than putting the kung fu dude in to give the MCU some asian representation they should use one of the million and one superheroes who arent kung fu dudes. Obviously if the choice is kung fu dude or nothing then bring on the kung fu dude. Also I've always wondered; Does anyone know, out of all the possible power sets out there, why the hell Electricity became the stereotypical go-to power set for black heroes (outside of the "superhuman strength and toughness" set which is ubiquitous across all races)?
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Mar 8, 2017 19:49
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SiKboy posted:Also I've always wondered; Does anyone know, out of all the possible power sets out there, why the hell Electricity became the stereotypical go-to power set for black heroes (outside of the "superhuman strength and toughness" set which is ubiquitous across all races)? Beat me to it. Another white as the driven snow person here and I was just wondering what was stereotypical about a black person with electricity powers. Like, I know there are a few, but I couldn't figure out what the link between black skin/culture and electricity was that made it stereotypical in the first place. Is it just that it's been done a lot despite not having any apparent basis then?
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Mar 8, 2017 20:14
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Doesn't matter I'm pot committed, gonna go all in. I also like Luke Cage more than many of you folks though, so it will probably be okay for me. eta- I've also watched Arrow on purpose and stuff. eta2- Marvel should make a movie about Blue Marvel. Zythrst fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 20:35
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Man, I really hope Danny punches the dragon in episode 7, and it's awesome, and then Luke Cage shows up and they're BFFs. Also Danny starts dating Misty Knight. Then Orson Randall shows up and kicks the show runner off and we just follow Fraction Iron Fist for the last 6 episodes. Oh god, Madam Gao sells opium/heroin doesn't she? Goddamn it Danny isn't going to punch any actual dragons, it'll just be a dumb pun on Chasing The Dragon. tsob posted:Beat me to it. Another white as the driven snow person here and I was just wondering what was stereotypical about a black person with electricity powers. Like, I know there are a few, but I couldn't figure out what the link between black skin/culture and electricity was that made it stereotypical in the first place. Is it just that it's been done a lot despite not having any apparent basis then? The Super Friends was really popular and Black Lightning was the black guy on the team. Later there was a dispute about royalties or ownership or something, so DC made a different Black Guy With Lightning Powers. However, as Black Lightning was the only black character to really permeate popular culture at the time, electrical powers became associated with black people. Much like how in the 70s all East Asians knew Kung Fu. Add in the tendency of comic books to rip off each other with that minor popularity, and BAM, BGWLP became something of a standard. I think that's what happened.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:40
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SiKboy posted:I'm so white I'm practically translucent, so I'll cheerfully cede the point that even iffy representation is better than none, and I didnt mean to imply otherwise. I just kind of feel that rather than putting the kung fu dude in to give the MCU some asian representation they should use one of the million and one superheroes who arent kung fu dudes. Obviously if the choice is kung fu dude or nothing then bring on the kung fu dude. There has got to be an article or two about this already, but perhaps the tendency of black heroes to evince powers suggesting technology, the future, or learning (Mr. Fantastic, Static Shock, Black Lightning) might be just a reaction to create a model type of representation by people who have to struggle to introduce any at all. I dunno.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:47
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Shageletic posted:There has got to be an article or two about this already, but perhaps the tendency of black heroes to evince powers suggesting technology, the future, or learning (Mr. Fantastic, Static Shock, Black Lightning) might be just a reaction to create a model type of representation by people who have to struggle to introduce any at all. I dunno. Mr Terrific I think you mean, unless theres been another FF reboot I didnt pay attention to. He's from the late 90's (if anyone couldnt tell by looking at his jacket), and I kind of assumed at that point the guys modernising the JSA kind of went "What if, and you might want to brace yourself for this one, we made a black superhero who wasnt from the street, wasnt ex-military, wasnt accused of a crime he didnt commit and didnt have lightning powers?". Admittedly that kind of out of the box thinking would probably give DC editorial an attack of the vapours, but they'd calm down when the followup was "And he's in the JSA so if we gently caress it up only a couple of dozen people will even notice". So long story short I think he is a deliberate attempt to give some representation that doesnt fall into the usual hackneyed comicbook stereotypes. Again, super fuckin' white over here but I always liked Mr Terrific. But then I'm on record as liking my comics slightly goofy, so the "T" on the face, the fairplay jacket, the orb things (I want to say they are called T-balls but that surely cant be right)... These are things that will endear a character to me. On that note I will be watching all of iron fist, good bad or indifferent. I'm a really big iron fist fan from when I was a kid (as I say, give me a slightly goofy C-lister over your batmen and spidermen any day) and motherfucker if I made it through the Lungren Punisher, the Spawn movie and the 1990 Captain america movie I can make it through this. I didnt even particularly like the Spawn comics, that just how hard up we were for comicbook related media dammit.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:04
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ufarn posted:Everyone's panning it like it's the Ghost in the Shell of TV. Wait...has the Ghost in the Shell live action movie gotten reviews that panned it already or something? I don't say that in surprise that it'll be bad, since that's at least probable given the pedigree of anime movie adaptions if nothing else, but that it's happened with at least a few weeks before the movie came out. Or is it just general consensus before the movie hits, rather than reviews based on actual viewings?
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Mar 8, 2017 21:38
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tsob posted:Wait...has the Ghost in the Shell live action movie gotten reviews that panned it already or something? I don't say that in surprise that it'll be bad, since that's at least probable given the pedigree of anime movie adaptions if nothing else, but that it's happened with at least a few weeks before the movie came out. Or is it just general consensus before the movie hits, rather than reviews based on actual viewings? It seems like the kind of movie they might let some people in to see early, but I wouldn't expect them to have effusive praise for it, so they're probably not going with that strat.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:56
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SiKboy posted:Mr Terrific I think you mean, unless theres been another FF reboot I didnt pay attention to. He's from the late 90's (if anyone couldnt tell by looking at his jacket), and I kind of assumed at that point the guys modernising the JSA kind of went "What if, and you might want to brace yourself for this one, we made a black superhero who wasnt from the street, wasnt ex-military, wasnt accused of a crime he didnt commit and didnt have lightning powers?". Admittedly that kind of out of the box thinking would probably give DC editorial an attack of the vapours, but they'd calm down when the followup was "And he's in the JSA so if we gently caress it up only a couple of dozen people will even notice". So long story short I think he is a deliberate attempt to give some representation that doesnt fall into the usual hackneyed comicbook stereotypes. Again, super fuckin' white over here but I always liked Mr Terrific. But then I'm on record as liking my comics slightly goofy, so the "T" on the face, the fairplay jacket, the orb things (I want to say they are called T-balls but that surely cant be right)... These are things that will endear a character to me. I think they were called T-Spheres? And aside from lightning powers, was it really common to have a black hoodlum/ broken home/orphan/ex-con/foster kid to end up being taken under the hero's wing to become a hero as well or use their powers to turn their life around? Also, Marvel had BLACK Goliath (super scientist) BLACK Panther (rules a country!) and there's DC's piece de resistance...  LadyPictureShow fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 22:05
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Hey guys, I'm looking forward to this show!
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Mar 8, 2017 22:17
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tsob posted:Beat me to it. Another white as the driven snow person here and I was just wondering what was stereotypical about a black person with electricity powers. Like, I know there are a few, but I couldn't figure out what the link between black skin/culture and electricity was that made it stereotypical in the first place. Is it just that it's been done a lot despite not having any apparent basis then? Maybe crackling blue electricity looks cooler against black skin than it does against white skin in a cartoon. Feel like white dudes get fire powers.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:32
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WRT black superheroes having lightning powers, the other argument I've heard is that circa the 60's and 70's, the idea of a black hero was strongly tied into 1) urban settings and 2) technological modernism. There was a sense that comic publishers were doing something cutting-edge and new by highlighting a (typically urban) black hero, and so they fixated on a powerset that felt modern or technological...hence lightning or electricity. From the 70's onward, similar associations led to cybernetic characters like Cyborg or Deathlok. Likewise, Asian or Asian-inspired characters of the same period became more tied to mysticism and martial arts. Iron Fist, Dr. Strange, Ras al-Ghul, Katana, etc. Comics are racist.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:46
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I'm so happy I can just skip this show now. I feel alive again.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:18
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Goons have the wost opinions on the Netflix shows. They have all been great, and I expect Iron Fist will be, as well. Gonna watch the entire thing, though it will have to wait until the weekend, due to my work schedule.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:25
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Kheldarn posted:Goons have the wost opinions on the Netflix shows. They have all been great, and I expect Iron Fist will be, as well. Gonna watch the entire thing, though it will have to wait until the weekend, due to my work schedule. Yea all those goon reviewers crapping on episodes 1-6
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Mar 9, 2017 00:38
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Race stuff aside I can absolutely believe Loras Tyrell is a poo poo actor. They should've cast the little girl that played the Lord of Bear Island. She acted the poo poo out of that role.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:50
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tsob posted:Beat me to it. Another white as the driven snow person here and I was just wondering what was stereotypical about a black person with electricity powers. Like, I know there are a few, but I couldn't figure out what the link between black skin/culture and electricity was that made it stereotypical in the first place. Is it just that it's been done a lot despite not having any apparent basis then? There's quite a few black characters with electricity powers but about 80% of them are alternate versions of Black Lightning, or members of his family.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:55
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Shageletic posted:I can only talk about this from being black, but even though every black hero seems to ride a skateboard, uses electricity, and/or has the word black before their title, I'm still happy to see them in the funny books/screen. It's a step up and better than not being represented at all. It's especially better than having entertainment monopolized by bland white guys. As someone who, until recently thanks to Kamala Khan, had no one but I dunno, Indian Spider man? I agree wholeheartedly. But I will say that I still think Khan's stretch Armstrong powers are stupid.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:48
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Grant Morrison did a limited series called Vimanarama about some Indian superheroes based on Indian mythology and religion if I recall.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:56
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Yeah, I'll drunk watch this poo poo.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:07
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Goonspeed Netflix watchers
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Mar 9, 2017 02:23
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polish sausage posted:As someone who, until recently thanks to Kamala Khan, had no one but I dunno, Indian Spider man? I agree wholeheartedly. But I will say that I still think Khan's stretch Armstrong powers are stupid. There was an X-man that was an actual Indian from Indian, but was very confusingly called Thunderbird
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Mar 9, 2017 03:02
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Guy Goodbody posted:There was an X-man that was an actual Indian from Indian, but was very confusingly called Thunderbird Pretty sure Thunderbird was Native American.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:26
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Gyges posted:Pretty sure Thunderbird was Native American. There are two Marvel superheroes called Thunderbird  
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Mar 9, 2017 03:31
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Gyges posted:The Super Friends was really popular and Black Lightning was the black guy on the team. It's Black Vulcan. 
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Mar 9, 2017 03:40
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BiggerBoat posted:It's Black Vulcan. Note that he used to go by Supervolt
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Mar 9, 2017 03:58
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