Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

Sunswipe posted:

Is there a Heavy Rain-inspired mod that changes all the player's dialogue to "SHAUN!"?
There was actually, but it doesn't seem to be on the Nexus any more because the Nexus hates fun and it doesn't seem to work on the Wayback Machine :(
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1454/

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
I like iracing but after a while it makes me think of the futility of life and what's the point anyway

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

smuh posted:

And while people tend to hate the 'chaos' system in the Dishonored games, I really liked it because you didn't have to do 95% of the game in a specific playstyle for the game to recognize it.

I really don't know how people dislike it, it's a real cool system. Like it's not even "Good or Bad" in a lot of cases, hell pretty much all of the "non-lethal" ways to take out the big conspirators are much, much worse than just running them through, the very first one sets the tone of that pretty well. First big guy you reach is Campbell the High Overseer, the big boss of the sorta national cult. Now you can make sure he just gets flat out dead a couple ways, or you can knock him out, drag him into one of their headquarters little torture rooms, then brand his face with a big ole hot iron, which marks him as a heretic and will pretty much get you shunned and exiled, even if you're the bossman himself. If you do this, the sorta loudspeaker news will talk about how he's been cast out and later on you can even find him in the flooded district of the city, the poorest and most messed up part of the place, brain fried and insane from catching the plague.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Speaking of Chaos in Dishonored 2, I felt justified in killing 3/4s of the coup soldiers in Dunwall. When I got to Karnaca, I killed no one, because they weren't directly part of the coup. But the game remembered only that I had killed so very many people, so two levels later when I find a bloodfly carcass Emily sighs "who has killed more people in Karnaca, madam Bloodfly? You or me?" I was like "the Bloodfly wins that by default."

Edit: it took like four levels for my chaos to go back to low.

marshmallow creep has a new favorite as of 22:28 on Mar 8, 2017

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Yardbomb posted:

I really don't know how people dislike it, it's a real cool system. Like it's not even "Good or Bad" in a lot of cases, hell pretty much all of the "non-lethal" ways to take out the big conspirators are much, much worse than just running them through, the very first one sets the tone of that pretty well. First big guy you reach is Campbell the High Overseer, the big boss of the sorta national cult. Now you can make sure he just gets flat out dead a couple ways, or you can knock him out, drag him into one of their headquarters little torture rooms, then brand his face with a big ole hot iron, which marks him as a heretic and will pretty much get you shunned and exiled, even if you're the bossman himself. If you do this, the sorta loudspeaker news will talk about how he's been cast out and later on you can even find him in the flooded district of the city, the poorest and most messed up part of the place, brain fried and insane from catching the plague.

Plus, like smuh said, it was reaaaaaaally lenient. I killed literally everything that moved in the last two levels because gently caress those guys, and I still got the lowest Chaos ending with no problem.

Dishonored is really, really good.

Rags to Liches
Mar 11, 2008

future skeleton soldier


Sunswipe posted:

I've seen people complain about New Vegas cutting you off from quests as a result of your faction choices because it means they can't see everything on one playthrough. Maybe it's just because I'm a cheap bastard, but I always figured it was a good thing if a game had more than one run's content in it.

People complained about this with the Witcher 3 too. AND that the game was too long. (I personally like my giant RPGs to be enormous and take forever tyvm)

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Aubergine Mage posted:

People complained about this with the Witcher 3 too.

Jesus christ.

Things dragging down RPGs: The people that want every playthrough to run together into a big samey demigod blob with no possible distinct paths

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Yardbomb posted:

I really don't know how people dislike it, it's a real cool system. Like it's not even "Good or Bad" in a lot of cases, hell pretty much all of the "non-lethal" ways to take out the big conspirators are much, much worse than just running them through, the very first one sets the tone of that pretty well. First big guy you reach is Campbell the High Overseer, the big boss of the sorta national cult. Now you can make sure he just gets flat out dead a couple ways, or you can knock him out, drag him into one of their headquarters little torture rooms, then brand his face with a big ole hot iron, which marks him as a heretic and will pretty much get you shunned and exiled, even if you're the bossman himself. If you do this, the sorta loudspeaker news will talk about how he's been cast out and later on you can even find him in the flooded district of the city, the poorest and most messed up part of the place, brain fried and insane from catching the plague.

i think the high chaos stuff clashed with some people because of hang-ups with Bad Endings in games by conflating 'endings where bad things happen' with 'endings where the game is punishing me, the player by depriving me of content for not doing things the right way'

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

This was discussed in the dishonored 2 thread. The idea behind chaos making everything worse is not that every little bad thing you see specific to high chaos is a direct result of your actions (which would mean the "bad ending" is your fault), but rather that the game is changing the tone of the story to fit your actions. If the story told by what the player does is "a fuckton of people are getting violently killed" then the game tells a darker story for you. Which is a very clever way to keep things tonally consistent in a game where the player could behave in very different ways.

Rags to Liches
Mar 11, 2008

future skeleton soldier


Yardbomb posted:

Jesus christ.

Things dragging down RPGs: The people that want every playthrough to run together into a big samey demigod blob with no possible distinct paths

I know! I also miss the days when map packs and RPG scenario/extra story stuff were free.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Digirat posted:

This was discussed in the dishonored 2 thread. The idea behind chaos making everything worse is not that every little bad thing you see specific to high chaos is a direct result of your actions (which would mean the "bad ending" is your fault), but rather that the game is changing the tone of the story to fit your actions. If the story told by what the player does is "a fuckton of people are getting violently killed" then the game tells a darker story for you. Which is a very clever way to keep things tonally consistent in a game where the player could behave in very different ways.

my first dishonored 1 run will always be magical to me because i killed a fuckton of people not out of malice or because i wanted to kill lots of peeps but because i was godawful at stealth and kept getting caught but didn't like constant reloading

so my internal narrative ended up being that corvo was just a bumbling goofball who sucked at anything more complicated than 'sword goes here, bullets go here' but the world treated him like this heartless juggernaut that murdered anything that breathed near him

(also that part where emily is drawing some hosed up picture of corvo standing over a bunch of corspes and talking about how she wants to be just like you when she grows up genuinely gave me an emotional reaction of feeling like a bad person but that's less funny)

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Apparently murdering dudes makes the weather more rainy, which on one hand is silly but on the other, if it's meant to reflect reality it does explain a lot about Glasgow

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Yardbomb posted:

Jesus christ.

Things dragging down RPGs: The people that want every playthrough to run together into a big samey demigod blob with no possible distinct paths

But if I can't do everything in one run, how can I get the platinum trophy in less than a week and call it the game of the year then never play it again while fondly talking about how it's the best game before the next big title comes out?

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.

Aubergine Mage posted:

I know! I also miss the days when map packs and RPG scenario/extra story stuff were free.

When was this? Paid expansions have been a thing for like 20 years.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Yardbomb posted:

Jesus christ.

Things dragging down RPGs: The people that want every playthrough to run together into a big samey demigod blob with no possible distinct paths

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time. One of the things New Vegas did right is that it doesn't actually lock you out of very much content in a single playthrough, halfway through to main questline the other faction conveniently decides to forgive you for murdering hundreds of their members because *mumble mumble* so you can do both sides in a single game, and then at the end of the main quest the point of no return that permanently locks you out of the other endings is signposted with a huge unskippable warning splash screen as well as a cautioning quest in your questlog so you know to make a backup save so you don't have to sink a zillion hours to get back to the point where it actually changes and you get to see new things. And even if you do start over an experienced player can jump to one of the main quest line's big points of diversion in less time than it takes to leave Witcher 3's tutorial.

Olive!
Mar 16, 2015

It's not a ghost, but probably a 'living corpse'. The 'living dead' with a hell of a lot of bloodlust...

Guy Mann posted:

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time.

No one expects you to do this.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

Guy Mann posted:

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time.

If you're already putting 70+ hours into a game your time obviously isn't worth jack poo poo.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Guy Mann posted:

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time.

The idea isn't to have you replay a 70 hour RPG multiple times to see all the content, it's to have the story in your game reflect the choices you made and be more reactive and personal to how you played it. Obsidian's stuff like NV and Alpha Protocol is more "gotta see it all", being as that it's a shorter game with sweeping changes and the ability to totally change gameplay styles, so it lends itself more to multiple playthroughs. One run of AP is something like 10 hours, so it lends itself well to trying out all sorts of diversion points. W3 is more about small changes to the overall narrative.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


Action Tortoise posted:

if a game was designed for multiple playthroughs, then why does it matter if you're locked out of content because of choices you made?
Because "designed for multiple playthroughs" generally means "arbitrarily locks you out of a tiny amount of stuff in order to create a shallow illusion of greater depth and complexity".

Yardbomb posted:

Things dragging down RPGs: The people that want every playthrough to run together into a big samey demigod blob with no possible distinct paths
If the game was actually different each time you played it, fine. Great. But it isn't. It's 90% the same poo poo you already did/saw with a few tiny changes.

Guy Mann posted:

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time.
Someone gets it.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

The idea isn't to have you replay a 70 hour RPG multiple times to see all the content, it's to have the story in your game reflect the choices you made and be more reactive and personal to how you played it.
If that's the intention then there are far, far better ways than locking players out of some of the game that they paid for unless they go through the tedious process of repeating everything.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Obsidian's stuff like NV and Alpha Protocol is more "gotta see it all", being as that it's a shorter game with sweeping changes and the ability to totally change gameplay styles, so it lends itself more to multiple playthroughs. One run of AP is something like 10 hours, so it lends itself well to trying out all sorts of diversion points.
That's still going to be 9 hours of doing the same poo poo you did last time in order to see that tiny bit of extra content.

Rags to Liches
Mar 11, 2008

future skeleton soldier


RyokoTK posted:

When was this? Paid expansions have been a thing for like 20 years.

I'm not talking full expansion packs. I mean maps, extra scenarios, stuff that now costs 5-10 bucks or so. I don't remember that ever costing that much even twenty years ago when I was a kid.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost
How about y'all make the choices y'all wanna make and just be fuckin' happy with them rather than complaining about a self-imposed obligation to maximally exploit each game for its precious content.

Or just play the 100% run of Undertale and get a few angry lectures on the subject from a talking flower and a skeleton.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Guy Mann posted:

Being expected to replay a 70+ hour game lile Witcher 3 multiple times just to experience a small amount of actual new content is asinine and shows that they have no respect for your time.
You're not expected to replay it, you're expected to play it and have an experience that's somewhat individual to you, and to replay it if you want to.


Tiggum posted:

If that's the intention then there are far, far better ways than locking players out of some of the game that they paid for unless they go through the tedious process of repeating everything.
If you consider playing a game to be a "tedious process" then you probably don't even want to play it once.

Lmao also at the idea that if someone pays for a game then having choices and consequences is some kind of consumer-unfriendly practise. Quite apart from the fact that people often buy this type of game because they might be "locked out" of content by choices they make in the game (people complained at Pillars Of Eternity not being much different between playthroughs) it's the era of youtube, and you can experience that content for free by typing it into google. I've seen every possible cutscene in the Mass Effect 3 Citadel DLC without playing it even once.

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.
I like when RPGs have different quests based on your choices or alignment or whatever the gently caress. Gives me an excuse to replay it with a different character class, too.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

2house2fly posted:

You're not expected to replay it, you're expected to play it and have an experience that's somewhat individual to you, and to replay it if you want to.

Seriously. Wanting to experience every single thing in one playthrough is almost mutually exclusive with wanting a game to have meaningful choices. Do people expect to be able to choose every single conversation option simultaneously in the witcher or something?

Aubergine Mage posted:

I'm not talking full expansion packs. I mean maps, extra scenarios, stuff that now costs 5-10 bucks or so. I don't remember that ever costing that much even twenty years ago when I was a kid.

DLC didn't cost that much 20 years ago because DLC wasn't a thing 20 years ago. Small packs of content just weren't done, it was expansions or nothing.

e: I know there were some exceptions like total annihilation, but they definitely weren't the norm

Owl Inspector has a new favorite as of 06:13 on Mar 9, 2017

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth
Either you can claim your time has value or you can try to 100% the story of a game. You cannot do both.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


2house2fly posted:

If you consider playing a game to be a "tedious process" then you probably don't even want to play it once.
How are you this dense? Seriously? You can't see any difference at all between "playing this game is a tedious process" and "replaying the bits of this game I already played once in order to see the bits I didn't is a tedious process"? Those mean the same thing to you?

2house2fly posted:

it's the era of youtube, and you can experience that content for free by typing it into google.
Playing a game is not the same thing as watching someone else play a game. Do you have this level of confusion with everything that's similar to another thing? Do you think eating a sandwich is the same as watching someone else eat a sandwich? Do you think it's the same as eating two sandwiches?

Digirat posted:

Seriously. Wanting to experience every single thing in one playthrough is almost mutually exclusive with wanting a game to have meaningful choices. Do people expect to be able to choose every single conversation option simultaneously in the witcher or something?
There's a huge difference between not seeing every branch of every conversation and being locked out of an entire quest.

Who What Now posted:

Either you can claim your time has value or you can try to 100% the story of a game. You cannot do both.
Bullshit.

TheShrike
Oct 30, 2010

You mechs may have copper wiring to re-route your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.
Calm down people.

Things dragging down metal gear solid peace walker - there is two endings and to get to the true ending I have to grind a bunch of extra missions and finish building the mech. I like the general gameplay so this wouldn't be a problem... if I hadn't already played and finished MGS5 and its true ending. It's the same song and dance just lots worse and I have little motivation to go through it- but I have to since I've played every part of every metal gear up to this point.

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
My time is worth a whole lot these days, I work full time and freelance a lot after work because I loving love money (and owing the IRS apparently)

I still play 70 hour RPGs pretty regularly?

suck on that nerds

TheShrike
Oct 30, 2010

You mechs may have copper wiring to re-route your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.

KingSlime posted:

My time is worth a whole lot these days, I work full time and freelance a lot after work because I loving love money (and owing the IRS apparently)

I still play 70 hour RPGs pretty regularly?

suck on that nerds

"Nerd you dont value your time like I do playing cs go 20 hours a week"

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

KingSlime posted:

My time is worth a whole lot these days, I work full time and freelance a lot after work because I loving love money (and owing the IRS apparently)

I still play 70 hour RPGs pretty regularly?

suck on that nerds

Get a social life.

TheShrike
Oct 30, 2010

You mechs may have copper wiring to re-route your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.

MiddleOne posted:

Get a social life.

There have been 8771 posts made by MiddleOne, an average of 3.97 posts per day

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Tiggum posted:

There's a huge difference between not seeing every branch of every conversation and being locked out of an entire quest.

True, but depending on how far you draw that line, you're still either limiting the consequences of the player's choices or having to make extremely contrived justifications for why the same player character can do absolutely everything. For example, if the player sides with the imperials in the civil war in skyrim, how would you thematically justify them still being able to go and do the stormcloak quests after they've already killed ulfric? It wouldn't make any sense, and skyrim is even more lenient than most in that area (it still lets you be the head of every guild, etc).

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Kontradaz posted:

There have been 8771 posts made by MiddleOne, an average of 3.97 posts per day

Checkmate...? :confused:

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
It's perfectly possible to do all that and have a social life and not be a fat slob who doesn't work out and also make time for really long RPGs (prob not more than one at a time though), I also play music so I find myself having to divide my fun time between that and video games, and shitposting here of course

Here's my hot take: some of you might just not be very good at managing your time! not a lot of people are

And lengthy games that require replays for a little more content are 100% disrespectful of your time in my humble opinion

E: yeah 4 posts a day is..not a lot

I appreciate the gesture nonetheless! it was a dumb rebuttal on his part

KingSlime has a new favorite as of 07:28 on Mar 9, 2017

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

KingSlime posted:

It's perfectly possible to do all that and have a social life and not be a fat slob who doesn't work out and also make time for really long RPGs (prob not more than one at a time though), I also play music so I find myself having to divide my fun time between that and video games, and shitposting here of course

Here's my hot take: some of you might just not be very good at managing your time! not a lot of people are

And lengthy games that require replays for a little more content are 100% disrespectful of your time in my humble opinion

E: yeah 4 posts a day is..not a lot

I appreciate the gesture nonetheless!

Oh agreed, but that's also why I just avoid playing them for the most part as I've grown older. I think the exceptions I made last year were Fallout 4, Tyranny and ZTD and that's only 70 hours total if Steam is to be believed. I do most of my playing while watching shows, which means that it's mostly low-attention stuff like Battlebrothers and Hearthstone than can be dropped at a hat.

EDIT: I reserve the right to make bad jokes. :v:

MiddleOne has a new favorite as of 07:38 on Mar 9, 2017

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
Yeah doubling up on TV while gaming is the way to go.

I'm obviously not clearing multiple lenghty rpgs a week, but do like to sink my teeth into a meaty game. I'm with tiggum that it sucks to be locked out of some content in order to fill in the box of "it's got choicez" because there's just too many good games coming out and I don't beat enough games as is, I'm definitely not gonna play most games again

Dark souls/BB is the exception to this, I always go back

Youtube definitely helps with this though, watching the cut content is good enough for the most part

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost
Wanting choices to have an impact on the story and wanting nothing to be walled off by player choices are mutually exclusive urges, fellows.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Tiggum posted:

Because "designed for multiple playthroughs" generally means "arbitrarily locks you out of a tiny amount of stuff in order to create a shallow illusion of greater depth and complexity".

games are binary systems that can abstract complex experiences like conversations and relationships. it's why morality is such a hard balancing act to do right, if it ever has been done right. if you know a character isn't going to go along with a choice you made, how is it arbitrary that they then refuse to continue their relationship with you?

like, we know none of this poo poo is deep. we just like to see where the path goes, and some of us apparently don't mind if doors are closed because it's a function of the system reacting to our input.

meh, agree to disagree and whatever.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Kontradaz posted:

Things dragging down metal gear solid peace walker - there is two endings and to get to the true ending I have to grind a bunch of extra missions and finish building the mech. I like the general gameplay so this wouldn't be a problem... if I hadn't already played and finished MGS5 and its true ending. It's the same song and dance just lots worse and I have little motivation to go through it- but I have to since I've played every part of every metal gear up to this point.

whenever i hear Zadornov, i can't help but picture the Medic from TF2 saying "the doorknob."

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Action Tortoise posted:

whenever i hear Zadornov, i can't help but picture the Medic from TF2 saying "the doorknob."

I have this problem so much with Robin Atkin Downes, around MGSV I'd gotten done playing a bunch of No More Heroes again, so any time he talked I just heard Travis Touchdown threatening to gently caress up Huey or whatever else.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply