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Melee only could make your frontlines quite busy, you'd have to give half your guys reach weapons and might still get in situations where a few of them can't reach their targets. Vancian classes, yea you can do without.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:46
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Traitorous Leopard posted:So I'm very new to this game, on my first playthrough, and I'm thinking about restarting (only a few hours in). I'm not a huge fan of Vancian magic, so if I were to restart and roll with a crew entirely of non-Vancian (maybe even melee-only) dudes, would I ever hit a point in the game combat-wise where I'd hate myself? Playing on normal difficulty for now. I wouldn't do melee only since you'll have issues with bottle necking but I'm actually about to start a similar playthrough with all non-casters utilizing all of the proc-on-hit weapons and armor. Seems like it'll be fun. On normal you should be fine with non-casters you just might need to dip into consumables a little more often.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:47
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My current playthrough is Cipher main, Eder, Pallegina, Maneha, Sagani and Aloth (Aloth despite annoying Vanciness because he carries through) and I hardly ever bother using Aloth's spells, and it goes all right. Just unlocked the final tier of the unlabored blade and bugger me that was a chore.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:51
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CFox posted:I wouldn't do melee only since you'll have issues with bottle necking but I'm actually about to start a similar playthrough with all non-casters utilizing all of the proc-on-hit weapons and armor. Seems like it'll be fun. On normal you should be fine with non-casters you just might need to dip into consumables a little more often. Proccing items are awesome in Poe1. I think my favorite is the Swaddling Sheet. It's a drop from one of the random quests your Stronghold gets but basically once an encounter it will cause a smashing wave to proc if you get hit by a critical hit. So much like the Shod in Faith boots it procs alll the time. There is nothing like starting a fight against a big zerg of enemies and having eight of them immediately stunned by a big gently caress off wave.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:51
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Ginette Reno posted:Proccing items are awesome in Poe1. I think my favorite is the Swaddling Sheet. It's a drop from one of the random quests your Stronghold gets but basically once an encounter it will cause a smashing wave to proc if you get hit by a critical hit. So much like the Shod in Faith boots it procs alll the time. There is nothing like starting a fight against a big zerg of enemies and having eight of them immediately stunned by a big gently caress off wave.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:56
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So, what's the most beneficial way to go for a melee Cipher? Should you focus on two handed weapons in order to generate a big chunk of focus at once or would it be better to dual wield in order to chip away at an enemy for a steady generation?
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Mar 8, 2017 21:58
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https://twitter.com/WorldofEternity/status/839276350808588288
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Mar 8, 2017 22:00
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rope kid posted:Yes. You can actually see someone do it our ship video. Watch the guy just below center at 0:44 Awesome, thanks! Sylphosaurus posted:So, what's the most beneficial way to go for a melee Cipher? Should you focus on two handed weapons in order to generate a big chunk of focus at once or would it be better to dual wield in order to chip away at an enemy for a steady generation? IMO a melee cipher should be using reach weapons, because you want them in light armor for speed purposes and they're not so good at going toe-to-toe with most enemies. And even on an otherwise melee cipher, opening every fight with a gunshot is a good idea because a solid hit from an arquebus or blunderbuss will get you a big chunk of focus immediately.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:14
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Did retaliation cipher get nerfed? Remember that being quite popular.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:16
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Retaliation doesn't generate Focus anymore. Melee Cipher is still fairly flexible and fun to play. Not as powerful as melee Wizard, but then, what is?
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Mar 8, 2017 22:24
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Walrus Pete posted:Awesome, thanks! Maybe that's the Llawran's Stick build I've been wondering about. *Theoretically*, if you upgrade it, it's one of the most damaging weapons in game, since it has increased speed and does Crushing damage which has wide vulnerability.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:33
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For melee cipher I'd play them a little bit like a rogue. Island aumaua + arms dealer and quickswitch is good too - keep arquebuses for when you need extra focus. Bitter cut + shield works nice. Once you get time parasite/defensive mindweb go nuts with a 2H'er - you'll be able to get max recovery and you'll be untouchable too.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:33
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Thanks to cross-class talents, it's easily possible to spend the first half of the game picking only talents that work for both melee and ranged as a Cipher, since you can just take the two Whip talents, the baby versions of Frenzy and Sneak Attack, and/or a Weapon Focus. Ruffian being an obvious Weapon Focus pick here for stilettos/sabres and a gun, or soldier for the pike and shot approach if you want a reach weapon. I'm playing a hybrid Cipher like that on PotD right now, also in a party without Vancian casters. This party is very light on action denial, especially early in a fight, which does make controlling incoming damage harder, but the Cipher has never been knocked out despite being in melee pretty often. I just let others (Pallegina and Zahua) absorb the first blow while the Cipher fires her gun for an early Focus boost and then uses the best power available at that particular moment. Which is frequently putting Ectopsychic Echo on Itumaak. Playing without Vancian casters definitely makes the game harder. Large enemy groups that come with CC of their own can be problematic. And it's much harder to punch above your weight when you can't burn all your per-rest spells on a single boss fight you enter freshly rested, obviously. I'm still getting through the game without real problems, although I had to give up on some particular fights I was underleveled for, like Cail the Silent at level 6 - a Wizard and a Druid instead of a Cipher and a Barbarian would have made that an easy battle.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:59
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Wizard Styles posted:And it's much harder to punch above your weight when you can't burn all your per-rest spells on a single boss fight you enter freshly rested, obviously. Which, I assume, is precisely why PoE2 will move to a system where per-rest resources are equally important to all classes. Much easier to balance your encounters when you don't have to worry about certain team compositions having much more spike damage than others.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:07
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Samuel Clemens posted:Which, I assume, is precisely why PoE2 will move to a system where per-rest resources are equally important to all classes. Much easier to balance your encounters when you don't have to worry about certain team compositions having much more spike damage than others. In Cail the Silent's case, for example, it's more that he can easily knock out several level 6 characters with one use of his breath weapon. If you bring a Druid and a Wizard, that's not really a problem, because he will not even get the chance. When all you've got for action denial are a Cipher and a Chanter, keeping him locked down is a lot less likely due to both your CC sources effectively being on cooldowns. It's probably still theoretically possible, but you better roll really well because you can't afford a miss. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 23:14
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rope kid posted:Yes. You can actually see someone do it our ship video. Watch the guy just below center at 0:44
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Mar 8, 2017 23:18
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Chairchucker posted:On normal difficulty you'll be fine. On hard you will even be fine if you pay the slightest bit of attention to the mechanics.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:23
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Wizard Styles posted:It's not even spike damage, necessarily. You can replace "spike damage" with "spike CC" if you want. My point was more generally about the fact that balancing classes whose abilities are powerful but limited and others whose abilities are weaker but plentiful is a nightmare when you can't control exactly at which points a player will rest.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:24
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X_Toad posted:Who are the big guys by the way? Local ogres? In the ship scene, those are all aumaua.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:03
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that q&a is live atm btw https://www.twitch.tv/obsidian
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Mar 9, 2017 01:18
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Enemies now have vision cones and a hearing radius for when you're sneaking.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:48
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I saw the comment that we'd be getting some undetermined amount of new PC portraits and I remembered what a loving pain it was to scroll through like 100 portraits with left/right arrows. Ropekid, if you're not already doing it can we get a portrait interface more like this, maybe racial tabs and display a bunch at once:  ? edit: I know it'd probably be really low priority, but...
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Mar 9, 2017 02:21
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I just finished Pillars of Eternity after starting it a few weeks ago and I have to say it's a good game. Not great, but good. That said, I have a question that the game didn't answer. At least, I don't think it did. What was Woedica's deal? Why... everything about her actually. The game only ever told me that she was bad and mean, but didn't explain what she had done to lose power or why everyone hated her. The most I got was that she demanded fealty from everyone, even gods, but nothing really specific.
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Mar 9, 2017 09:39
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Woedica was originally the queen of the gods, but at some point the other gods got fed up of her tyrannical rule and cast her down, since when she has schemed to get her revenge and win back her throne. Thaos, who is a sort of tech support for the gods, seems to have been unwilling to correct this since restoring her to power would require harvesting thousands of human souls to give her a boost, but then the science of animancy grew popular in the Dyrwood. Animancy was how the gods were created in the first place, and if the mortals found that out it would be a great threat to all the gods' power. So he set about using ancient machines to harvest the souls of the unborn, gathering fuel for Woedica's return to power, with the intent of blaming the resulting soulless infants on animancy so that the science would be banned.
2house2fly fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 12:49
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Edér looks like young Max von Sydow?
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Mar 9, 2017 15:57
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RickDaedalus posted:I just finished Pillars of Eternity after starting it a few weeks ago and I have to say it's a good game. Not great, but good. That said, I have a question that the game didn't answer. At least, I don't think it did. It's not explicitly laid out. My assumption is she tried to impose her power a bit too directly on the world. It seems like the Gods try to be more indirect with their influence on the world and direct intervention (Eothas invading the Dyrwood for example) is hugely frowned on by the other gods. I'm guessing she had a similar situation to Eothas and was cast down accordingly. 2house2fly posted:Woedica was originally the queen of the gods, but at some point the other gods got fed up of her tyrannical rule and cast her down, since when she has schemed to get her revenge and win back her throne. Thaos, who is a sort of tech support for the gods, seems to have been unwilling to correct this since restoring her to power would require harvesting thousands of human souls to give her a boost, but then the science of animancy grew popular in the Dyrwood. Animancy was how the gods were created in the first place, and if the mortals found that out it would be a great threat to all the gods' power. So he set about using ancient machines to harvest the souls of the unborn, gathering fuel for Woedica's return to power, with the intent of blaming the resulting soulless infants on animancy so that the science would be banned. I assumed Thaos had been working for a long time to try to bring her back. He's directly her servant so I don't think he was ever okay with her being dead or powered down. Someone had a theory in one of the other threads about her being sort of like the enforcer of the Gods and that she'd been periodically brought in to restore the status quo and then powered down again throughout history. I could see that being the case as well. Mortals need a kick in the rear end? She comes in and does it, then you power her down after that because she's a loving lunatic and can't play nice.
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Mar 9, 2017 16:29
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Furism posted:Edér looks like young Max von Sydow? Imagine Edér in The Virgin Spring.
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Mar 9, 2017 16:45
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Ginette Reno posted:It's not explicitly laid out. My assumption is she tried to impose her power a bit too directly on the world. It seems like the Gods try to be more indirect with their influence on the world and direct intervention (Eothas invading the Dyrwood for example) is hugely frowned on by the other gods. Interesting to note, it was Magran who torched them both. In her capacity as Goddess of War, Rebellion and Ordeals, she seems to be a dedicated check on divine overreach.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:07
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Ginette Reno posted:It's not explicitly laid out. My assumption is she tried to impose her power a bit too directly on the world. It seems like the Gods try to be more indirect with their influence on the world and direct intervention (Eothas invading the Dyrwood for example) is hugely frowned on by the other gods. That actually leads into the sequel setting now that I'm thinking about it. Imagine if Woedica could bend the ear of Rautai or Vailian leaders to tell them Deadfire is their destiny as rulers.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:11
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I hate to backseat thread-police and find what y'all are saying is pretty interesting, but you might want to spoiler some of that stuff as there a few people who are new to the game coming through here now.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:39
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That's a good point, the odd person comes through saying "i just started this what class is best" and they probably don't want to have the ending spoiled
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Mar 9, 2017 17:54
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Samuel Clemens posted:Which, I assume, is precisely why PoE2 will move to a system where per-rest resources are equally important to all classes. Much easier to balance your encounters when you don't have to worry about certain team compositions having much more spike damage than others. I wonder if they'll be adding anything that actually gives the sort of strategic gameplay that "per rest" abilities rely on a chance to even remotely exist? Because in the original is was a joke in like a half dozen different ways on that front. "A strategy subgame where you manage a single nearly unlimited resources based largely on information that is impossible to acquire in advance, where the biggest trade off is between playing optimally and suffering through really tedious load screens" is not really... fun. At best you could call it ignorable since it's like the game on any normal difficulty is hard enough for strategy to even matter, but I certainly didn't feel like it added anything meaningful.This coming from someone who loves the concept of Vancian casting but who thinks per rest abilities (of all sorts) were done in a really dumb and boring way in PoE (and an even dumber way in Tyranny). Knowing they're being expanded in PoE2 does not fill me with much confidence unless the actual gameplay is being modified somehow so doing so might add something of value. But as it was it felt like they were trying to shoehorn strategic elements into gameplay without the infrastructure needed to support it.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:04
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DrPop posted:I hate to backseat thread-police and find what y'all are saying is pretty interesting, but you might want to spoiler some of that stuff as there a few people who are new to the game coming through here now. The game is years old at this point, and any story that is "spoiled" by finding out the ending is pretty garbage in the first place. Edar's brother was really a sled.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:29
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bongwizzard posted:The game is years old at this point, and any story that is "spoiled" by finding out the ending is pretty garbage in the first place. I found the story pretty unique and interesting  but also quote:Edar's brother was really a sled. lmao
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Mar 9, 2017 18:31
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DrPop posted:I found the story pretty unique and interesting That was my point, the story is interesting enough that learning the ending doesn't really detract from it being interesting. Also that part in act three where you learn that Durance is really Keyser Söze was particularly awesome.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:35
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Hiravias was really dead the whole time and only Eder can see him.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:47
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I certainly agree that the story wouldn't suffer from being spoiled, but hiding that stuff behind tags is just polite
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Mar 9, 2017 19:02
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2house2fly posted:I certainly agree that the story wouldn't suffer from being spoiled, but hiding that stuff behind tags is just polite I disagree with the concept of spoilers in general, but it's super absurd to insist on it for a game it's been out for this long. Like, the infinity engine games thread still had people posting never played before, so they spoiler everything of those threads to?
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Mar 9, 2017 20:35
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bongwizzard posted:I disagree with the concept of spoilers in general, but it's super absurd to insist on it for a game it's been out for this long. Like, the infinity engine games thread still had people posting never played before, so they spoiler everything of those threads to? Some of the big stuff, yeah.
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Mar 9, 2017 20:45
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As someone who just bought the game a few days ago when it and all the expansion packs were on sale for the first time, I could do without major spoilers. I'd quite like to know which spell damage types and conditions are consistently useful and which are garbage, though. e: Is the wannabe monk talent good for ranged people who wind up in melee? Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 20:56
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