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Covok posted:How well does a OPP WW game translate to PbP? Scion is owned by OPP. Trinity too. Not licensed, but bought outright. So this is really striking out on a different, uh, path. But there were a couple of mandates to keep the game friendly for people who came in through WoD/CofD/Exalted. Those three games do consider the whole legacy, though I'm not sure what V5 will bring. I designed the first few iterations of Storypath's core systems, but haven't been too connected to playtest adjustments since. They might have become even more adventurous. I work for Green Ronin full time now, so my dabbling in OPP's stuff will probably not be as frequent now.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:20
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Covok posted:How well does a OPP WW game translate to PbP? They translate fine from my experience. Some focus more on the world, and you play inside it with some degree of autonomy. Some focus on just a group of players in a group like you would for TT. Combat can be a slog if you let it be and get all crunchy with it. It really depends on who you're playing with.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:34
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Covok posted:How well does a OPP WW game translate to PbP? What Flavivirus says: Flavivirus posted:I don't think this is a fair assessment - as far as I know there's been a continuity of people working on WoD products all the way from White Wolf to CCP to Onyx Path to nuWW. The name of the group making the book may have changed but there was never really a point where there was a dead company to revive the IP of. Some of the people designing Storytelling Revised (aka GMC, the rules of CofD second editions) designed its first version, back in the 2004 World of Darkness Rulebook Those freelancers previously worked on cWoD material. If I were to characterise the influence of the 20th anniversary editions of WoD games on the rest of our work, I'd say it's made us want to make more innovative steps. There's a sense around the virtual water cooler that the x20 lines are where you stick to tried-and-tested mechanics its fans (who are, by nature of them being anniversary celebrations, more conservative mechanically) are comfortable with and the CofD lines are where you experiment with anything thought up in the last ten years. But even then, the CofD's core engine is old now. Vampire: The Requiem has now been a going concern longer than Vampire: The Masquerade was before Gehenna (the book) was published. Werewolf is a few months off. Mage will be in about a year and a half. We went a long way with Storytelling Revised to do things like encourage non-aspirational play through the (ironicly named) Aspiration and Beat system, codifying Conditions into system language, making sure Mage's spellcasting obeyed the central dice mechanic of the game, adding minigames of Violences' complexty for non-combat situations, and so on, but it's still the d10 dice pool modified for difficulty, fixed TN8, one TN-beating die is a successful action core. If we were doing it again... Well, it'd probably look a lot like Storypath (the main attraction of which is systemising in a FFG-Star Warsy way both raw success/failure and complication/benefit) modified for genre. But as second editions of existing games, there's limits to how far you can push an engine. Deviant will push it in ways it's not been pushed before - no Virtue or Vice equivalents, no fuel trait, two Integrity equivalents, an optional power trait - but it's constrained by that central rolling mechanic, same as any other CofD game. Contrary to some claims, we XXX of Darkness writers do play other games, from Indie titles to D&D (D&D 4th ed is surprisingly popular among OPP types.) and breaking new ground is fun. From what they've said, White Wolf intend Masquerade fifth to be much more radical, rules-wise, than 20th anniversary. It will be interesting to see what they come up with, as their primary in-house team is made up of LARPers. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it'll be a lot lighter, mechanically. Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 17:40
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Dave Brookshaw posted:(D&D 4th ed is surprisingly popular among OPP types.) Yesss. 
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Mar 8, 2017 17:52
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Covok posted:How well does a OPP WW game translate to PbP? All the usual caveats of PbP apply; it will take significantly longer, a statement that goes double for rules discussions. Likewise, there's the boon that it is easier for people to play it up and the end result can be really quite beautiful. Also, if you're talking about a board-based PbP instead of an IRC or Skype/Discord thing, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here. The game has all the hope of surviving of a starving and orphaned baby deer in the middle of winter.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:58
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Dave Brookshaw posted:What Flavivirus says: Is anyone at OPP involved at all with Masquerade 5th, or is it a completely new in-house team? Are there old WW writers involved, as far as you know?
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Mar 8, 2017 18:03
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yesss. It's a very well designed game that knows exactly what it wants to do, which is more than I can say for D&D 5th ed.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:03
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Flavivirus posted:I don't think this is a fair assessment - as far as I know there's been a continuity of people working on WoD products all the way from White Wolf to CCP to Onyx Path to nuWW. The name of the group making the book may have changed but there was never really a point where there was a dead company to revive the IP of. Well, I suppose that's best blamed on my lack of facts about the full picture. My understanding was limited to White Wolf disappearing and OPP appearing. I suppose the reality is much more complicated. MalcolmSheppard posted:Scion is owned by OPP. Trinity too. Not licensed, but bought outright. So this is really striking out on a different, uh, path. But there were a couple of mandates to keep the game friendly for people who came in through WoD/CofD/Exalted. Those three games do consider the whole legacy, though I'm not sure what V5 will bring. So, I am aware White Wolf was purchased by Paradox Interactive, who I am to assume are the current rights owners to the majority of the line. Why was Scion and Trinity on the market for a full purchase? Not popular/valuable enough in the eyes of the previous holder in comparison to the rest? Also, am I right in thinking Aberrant is a part of Trinity? Dave Brookshaw posted:What Flavivirus says: I didn't mean to offend with my assertions earlier, but I suppose they were more than a bit rude. I guess this the level of complexity I should expect from working on a game franchise that has two versions of each game line (more or less) with radically different lore and mechanics and different fan bases. Not to mention the desire of the writing staff to branch out and stretch their wings, so to speak. All makes sense, really. Also, what is Deviant about? The first I'm hearing of this new game line. Also, I'm not surprised to hear you guys play different games. It'd be odder if all you played were your own titles. From experience (unless I'm a weirdo), it's actually odder playing a game you made yourself because you see all its flaws and, if the rules gently caress up and mess up play, that's on you. What indie games tend to be popular among OPP types, if you feel like divulging? I'm curious what indie rpgs are influencing, even if subconsciously, some development in the OPP circle. Finally, there is a subtle thing I just picked up on in your post. If there is only so much you can do with a new edition of an iteration of a game line and some of the staff feel the game line is getting old as its reaching the same age as the last iteration was before it wrapped up, that must mean there are whispers of a new, new world of darkness in some circles. I'd understand if you can't comment.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:04
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Is anyone at OPP involved at all with Masquerade 5th, or is it a completely new in-house team? Are there old WW writers involved, as far as you know? Dunno. Shane DeFreest works there, and he wrote a bit for old WW in the latter years (he is, of course, most known for By Night Studio's LARP versions). If anyone's freelancing for both Onyx Path and White Wolf, they haven't told me, nor would I expect them to.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:05
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Dave Brookshaw posted:It's a very well designed game that knows exactly what it wants to do, which is more than I can say for D&D 5th ed.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:06
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Dave Brookshaw posted:It's a very well designed game that knows exactly what it wants to do, which is more than I can say for D&D 5th ed. You folks are good eggs. Don't let board based pbp's deter you, I'd be down for vampire, mage, or werewolf.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:09
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Axelgear posted:All the usual caveats of PbP apply; it will take significantly longer, a statement that goes double for rules discussions. Depressing metaphor, but I see your point there. So, board based is a lost cause and discord is the best bet. How would that work, really? Since one of the reasons I'm looking at pbp is to get around my time constraints and trying to take advantage of my desk jobs computer access. Wouldn't discord based pbp not solve the time constraint issue or am I misunderstanding? An occasional post seems possible for me, but not constant upkeep. New to the whole job thing, just out of college, if you couldn't tell.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:12
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Covok posted:Well, I suppose that's best blamed on my lack of facts about the full picture. My understanding was limited to White Wolf disappearing and OPP appearing. I suppose the reality is much more complicated. The changeover from CCP North America (the last remnants of original white wolf) to Onyx Path happened mid-book for me. Rich emailed us all, cheques started coming from a different postal address. One guy went from being the person you handed your book to at CCP to being hired by CCP as a consultant to be their approvals bod. The workflow set up is a bit different now, both as OPP has hired more permenant staff and improved processes and after CCP sold the White Wolf name and IPs to Paradox, but at first, we keyboard-monkeys barely noticed. Smooth transition. quote:So, I am aware White Wolf was purchased by Paradox Interactive, who I am to assume are the current rights owners to the majority of the line. Why was Scion and Trinity on the market for a full purchase? Not popular/valuable enough in the eyes of the previous holder in comparison to the rest? Everything was on the market, it's just that World of Darkness (both of them) and Exalted were considerably more expensive. CCP never wanted to do anything with Trinity, because a space game would conflict with EVE. Ian (OPP's Trinity Developer) even got as far as proposing Trinity for a comeback a few years before the selloff. And yeah - Aberrant is one of the Trinity games. quote:I didn't mean to offend with my assertions earlier, but I suppose they were more than a bit rude. All good quote:Also, what is Deviant about? The first I'm hearing of this new game line. Next Chronicles of Darkness game. Jekyll, Dr Moreau, and the Invisible Man. People who've been turned into monsters by accident or malice of other people. quote:Also, I'm not surprised to hear you guys play different games. It'd be odder if all you played were your own titles. From experience (unless I'm a weirdo), it's actually odder playing a game you made yourself because you see all its flaws and, if the rules gently caress up and mess up play, that's on you. What indie games tend to be popular among OPP types, if you feel like divulging? I'm curious what indie rpgs are influencing, even if subconsciously, some development in the OPP circle. Fiasco. So much Fiasco.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:16
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If you have a smartphone and wifi access, the Discord app is really solid. Come to think of it, when people cite Skype/Discord as an alternative to PbP, do they just mean it in terms of facilitating a virtual tabletop experience, or a more viable means of asynchronous collaborative storytelling? Because the potential for more considered prose and the lack of time-sensitive improv are the real draws of PbP for me.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:18
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Dave Brookshaw posted:(D&D 4th ed is surprisingly popular among OPP types.)
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Mar 8, 2017 18:22
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Basic Chunnel posted:If you have a smartphone and wifi access, the Discord app is really solid. My own Mage game is going to give Discord a go for PbP style asynchronous play but I've never heard of anyone else trying that. In my experience people generally want to use Skype/Discord to facilitate a virtual tabletop experience. You all login at the same time and shout down microphones.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:52
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I've been running a 'board-style' Requiem PbP game since 2012. I've had one constant player (who actually co-STs a bunch of NPCs) through that whole time, currently have four active players, and at most had seven going at once (and just the one during lean times). A couple of the players live in my same town, and another is in driving distance (3 hours) so on occasion I run one-shot style games where they get to use their characters at a tabletop session. Average one or two a year. I have one player who only attends the live sessions. For the PbP format, we started in Google Wave, and transitioned to Rizzoma (free version) when Wave phased out. There are probably better formats to use, but we like it for the easy edit options, nested conversations, easy invite (so only certain players can see certain threads/scenes), image support and export capabilities. We don't have an inbuilt dice system, so just link to Orikos rolls (though really I just trust people.) Character sheets are just dedicated threads, so no fancy links to auto-rollers or anything. For social and investigation scenes everything is great. Combat and high-action scenes do bog down, and if anything goes beyond about 10-15 combat rounds, I think real hard about either abstracting it (usually giving the PCs a little extra effectiveness in the result) or scheduling a game-night where everyone can be on at once (so more like a discord style scene). My first taste of WoD was Ars Magica, so once someone has been vetted with a starting neonate for a while, I let them make a 2nd Ancillae character if they wish. I've found that having more than one character lets people really do different things. I think there's a tendency by players (especially ones who are game starved) to try and do it all - cram every experience into their character even if it doesn't totally make sense. But when you have two, you can really think which of your characters would truly be interested in responding to different plot events and really start to personalize them beyond a direct in-game avatar. I ask that people dedicate time for one post per day. Anything beyond that is gravy. I am able to sneak posts at work. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:58
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There have been a couple of surprisingly durable PBP games on the OPP forums running for the last few months, if you want an example of how it can look in practice.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:27
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Basic Chunnel posted:If you have a smartphone and wifi access, the Discord app is really solid. exactly. I'd go so far as to say that using discord/Irc for fights if everyone can get together would be a good idea, but PbP's main draw is that people in different timezones with different schedules can all play. EDIT: I've posted this before, but back in the day the only pbp game's more populous than Mutants & Masterminds were WoD games. When VtR first came out, I was in a game here that last two or three years and actually finished. Just have a way to introduce new players when old ones flake out. PbP is fine, don't let them scare you off. Soonmot fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 19:33
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Covok posted:Depressing metaphor, but I see your point there. So, board based is a lost cause and discord is the best bet. How would that work, really? Since one of the reasons I'm looking at pbp is to get around my time constraints and trying to take advantage of my desk jobs computer access. Wouldn't discord based pbp not solve the time constraint issue or am I misunderstanding? An occasional post seems possible for me, but not constant upkeep. As others have pointed out, board-based things have their advantages, but my experiences haven't been positive. That might be mostly because I was organizing games with strangers on forums, so it wasn't as coordinated as it could've been, but they had problems related to player engagement and a high frequency of simply dying. If you know people you consider good, or are simply willing to take the chance, do it. Don't let me scare you off from something. It costs you nothing but time you wanted to spend on it anyway, right? I mean, even now, after coming out and stating how much I dislike PbP, I still find myself looking at Soonmot's thing about being up for a PbP game and have to keep myself from going "Hmmm...". (And, heh, sorry for the metaphor.) Basic Chunnel posted:Come to think of it, when people cite Skype/Discord as an alternative to PbP, do they just mean it in terms of facilitating a virtual tabletop experience, or a more viable means of asynchronous collaborative storytelling? Because the potential for more considered prose and the lack of time-sensitive improv are the real draws of PbP for me. Little from column A, little from column B. I like the prose, myself, but the real-time feedback is also a draw. It helps keep people in the mindset and the moment. Dave Brookshaw posted:Dr Moreau This is honestly still my favourite part of the Deviant pitch. I'm curious to see if/how you included "alien behaviour" options for Deviant (a la Frenzy, Kuruth, Obsessions, etc.), given its unique design structure. The Hulk's unrepentant rage, or the bestial instincts that Moreau couldn't breed out of the animals and tried to suppress with the Law, or, hell, to pull an example from my childhood, Cybersix's need to feed on the magic juice Von Richter pumped Fixed Ideas up with.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:39
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Dunno. Shane DeFreest works there, and he wrote a bit for old WW in the latter years (he is, of course, most known for By Night Studio's LARP versions). If anyone's freelancing for both Onyx Path and White Wolf, they haven't told me, nor would I expect them to. gently caress Shane Defreest
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Mar 8, 2017 20:55
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Dunno. Shane DeFreest works there, and he wrote a bit for old WW in the latter years (he is, of course, most known for By Night Studio's LARP versions). If anyone's freelancing for both Onyx Path and White Wolf, they haven't told me, nor would I expect them to. One person is freelancing for both. But I don't even really know who they are, because they're afraid to reveal their identity because people might not like them. Which is weird, because it'll come out eventually? I dunno. But I sorely doubt it's any of the more prominent OPP names. MC Smoke Sensei posted:gently caress Shane Defreest I'd really advise against it. You don't know where he's been.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:40
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Out of curiosity, have any of you actually used the God Machine in your games? Obviously a given for Demon but what about in Vampire or Hunter? Going about disabling infrastructure, fighting angels and stuff. It sounds like a pretty great "here's the creepy cosmology for our game" if that's what the players want.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:13
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I'm gonna be scattering a few God Machine hooks around my Mage game for my players to follow up on if it interests them. As Mages, I assume it'll trigger their  sense.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:21
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crime fighting hog posted:Out of curiosity, have any of you actually used the God Machine in your games? Obviously a given for Demon but what about in Vampire or Hunter? Going about disabling infrastructure, fighting angels and stuff. It sounds like a pretty great "here's the creepy cosmology for our game" if that's what the players want. The God-Machine is a key element in the Mage game I'm writing right now. A bunch of burned out Mysterium adventurers accidentally end up working for a Demon to retrieve Infrastructure. I've used it before in another game, I actually find Demons and Mages are natural playmates. They're both curious gits that value secrecy.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:24
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My favorite "Did not think this through" thing in the BNS LARP rules is the awareness skill. Having one dot allows you, anytime somebody nearby uses a power, to make a test against them to detect their use of the power. This means that every. single. loving. use. of dominate, presence, etc. involves a dozen goddamn people testing for awareness, and in practice means that subtle use of social disciplines doesn't exist. It's also a big nerf to Ventrue on top of presence powers costing blood, as the lack of blood-spending disciplines used to be a big counterbalance to their clan weakness.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:29
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Pope Guilty posted:My favorite "Did not think this through" thing in the BNS LARP rules is the awareness skill. Having one dot allows you, anytime somebody nearby uses a power, to make a test against them to detect their use of the power. This means that every. single. loving. use. of dominate, presence, etc. involves a dozen goddamn people testing for awareness, and in practice means that subtle use of social disciplines doesn't exist. It's also a big nerf to Ventrue on top of presence powers costing blood, as the lack of blood-spending disciplines used to be a big counterbalance to their clan weakness. That's literally my experience with MET Auspex. And it was loving butchery. Ruined the flow of play. And, frankly, ruined the fact that vampires lying is such an important facet of the game. I walked out of a game once because amidst giving an important speech the Storyteller requested I give and give acting gravity to, I was literally stopped for bullshit lie and superpower detection twelve times. Can't stand that stuff.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:39
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In the Demon game I'm running, the "director" of the PC's Agency is secretly a mage. He's from another universe that the God-Machine can't yet access, and he's trying to get back there while keeping the God-Machine out. He's pretending to be a demon so that other demons will work for him, hunting down God-Machine agents and trying to get information on the God-Machine's attempts to access his universe. He's managed to convince my PCs in particular to work for him by keeping a hunter angel off their back (which he can do because he's a master of Spirit). I'm still considering what a universe without the God-Machine looks like. I'm thinking it has a lot less technology, and that one of the things the God-Machine has been effectively doing is keeping the supernatural hidden as a side effect of it's general tendency toward secrecy. In the other world, the move from magic and superstition to science and reason never really happened. Supernatural creatures are dominant powers in the world, and rule over a number of competing city-states which are varying levels of nightmarish hellscapes. Speaking of hellscapes, this is a universe that doesn't have the God-Machine. The PC's are already looking for such a place (as part of a couple of their backstories), so if they make it there they have to decide if they're cool with the state of things, or if they will take it upon themselves to form their own kingdom. And then I guess we play Exalted?
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Mar 9, 2017 00:42
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MachineIV posted:That's literally my experience with MET Auspex. And it was loving butchery. Ruined the flow of play. And, frankly, ruined the fact that vampires lying is such an important facet of the game. I walked out of a game once because amidst giving an important speech the Storyteller requested I give and give acting gravity to, I was literally stopped for bullshit lie and superpower detection twelve times. Once my character was executed because they couldn't tell whether or not I was lying about my guilt with Auspex, so they had to presume I was lying and guilty. Mind, I was innocent, which was ironic because it was probably the only time I was ever innocent of anything.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:50
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The good news is that BNS categorically removes all lie detectors. Nothing can definitively determine that somebody is lying.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:55
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Once my character was executed because they couldn't tell whether or not I was lying about my guilt with Auspex, so they had to presume I was lying and guilty. Mind, I was innocent, which was ironic because it was probably the only time I was ever innocent of anything. I have seen this exact thing a few times. I ended up only LARPing in very tight, curated groups where I fundamentally redesigned the game mechanics.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:18
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Removing lie detection is a Good Thing™ and I have hard anecdata as to why. My LARP group (nVamp since a bit after its release) runs one standalone chron a year, resetting ST team, setting, characters, etc. after every 10 games. This means more often than not, games will experiment with really far-out setting and mechanical variants to keep things fresh. This year, there is no Masquerade--a PC broke it on national television in 1960. The clan/covenant setup is also changed a bit; though some clans are decently similar to core, the primary, most substantial difference is that nobody has Auspex or Dominate. Between vampires being public and the two most brute-force social disciplines being peeled out, we've had the most subtle, intricate, and baffling politics all year, just from people being forced to play their horrible schemes out the hard way (with social merits)--and as a secret from both the law and the Kindred community, because everyone has to obey the law anyway. We're going to be going back into Masquerade-present years with some weird habits after this one, but not all bad ones.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:21
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How does the new LARP scheme avoid Dominating people into telling you the truth?Mister Olympus posted:Removing lie detection is a Good Thing™ and I have hard anecdata as to why. Lie detection is the stupidest thing in a LARP. It makes a certain amount of sense in tabletop, where figuring out who to trust and when is more of a PvE element and something the group has to balance risk/reward to figure out. The problem with the LARP environment is that the status quo is decided by and large by the players, not the STs. So that means everyone instantly normalizes lie detection because why the hell wouldn't you, in an environment where everyone is known to lie all the time? But of course this removes one of the most important elements of social roleplaying, which is deciding who to trust. If you don't have that, you can just evaluate everything rationally, which is boring as poo poo.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:53
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:In the Demon game I'm running, the "director" of the PC's Agency is secretly a mage. He's from another universe that the God-Machine can't yet access, and he's trying to get back there while keeping the God-Machine out. That's so cool. If my players are inclined I may start dropping hints of the big TERROR BEYOND THE STARS stuff as we play on but I'm looking to ramp it up slowly. Maybe sightings of static angels, glitches in the matrix type moments at first before finding basements of mechanical doppelgangers and bottomless pits of gears beneath corporate HQs.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:56
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Mendrian posted:How does the new LARP scheme avoid Dominating people into telling you the truth? Oh, Dominate isn't automatic or Generation-bound anymore; there's a test pool. You can't be sure, IC, if your power worked.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:09
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Mister Olympus posted:Removing lie detection is a Good Thing™ and I have hard anecdata as to why. I have another sort of counter-anecdote that still supports the premise that lie detection is a bad thing. I played an inquisitor who tried to play a political game to eliminate enemies. Every time I falsely accused someone, instead of people rolling with it and accepting that the game isn't about honest people, I was met with an overwhelming air of, "NUH UH MY SUPERPOWER SAYS YOU'RE LYING." And, then everyone starts nodding, because clearly the person who said that out-of-character's character is honest and doesn't have an agenda. Nevermind the way things like Status work. It makes the game boring, lacking nuance, and downright childish.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:23
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Hey, random question: Is your name meant to be read as "Machine Four" or "Machine-Ayy-Vee"?
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Mar 9, 2017 02:38
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Pope Guilty posted:The good news is that BNS categorically removes all lie detectors. Nothing can definitively determine that somebody is lying. I mean, except Dominate or Dementation. Mesmerize: Answer any question I ask you honestly. Or use Dementation 4 to give them a derangement Compulsion (Confess the Truth) with the Trigger of the sound of hands clapping. Or something similar there are a million ways to do it with Dementation. Edit: I didn't see others had mentioned this and the response was "well it requires a test". That is true (unless you're a Ventrue with Aura of Command Dominating a mortal but who cares in that circumstance), but you can try every ten minutes anyways and you'll win eventually? I can't recall, did Laws of the Night Auspex lie-detection not require a test? Exrandu fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 02:38
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I have yet to hear a LARP story that makes me think "man, I wish I could find a LARP group because it sure doesn't sound like a continual shoryuken to the balls!"
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Mar 9, 2017 03:07
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Axelgear posted:Hey, random question: Is your name meant to be read as "Machine Four" or "Machine-Ayy-Vee"? Machine Four. It's a reference to an old Sister Machine Gun song of all things. But it stuck with me.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:12
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