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axeil posted:knowing how absolutely scummy uber is i have no doubt that Otto was conceived from the start as a (very dumb) scheme to steal google's IP. knowing how uber is a techbro startup with more venture capital than sense I have no doubt that the scheme was exactly as dumb as you think it is.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:40
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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divabot posted:Some speculation on just how much of a problem being sued by Alphabet will be for Uber, particularly when they get to discovery. There's a ton of really suspicious coincidences here which lead me to believe uber is hosed. Nice find.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:01
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Why the gently caress did he talk with coworkers at waymo about this? How can you be so dumb and be in that position?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:36
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Discendo Vox posted:Those exist already. What non-H1 visa would you recommend for executives? O is pretty tricky unless your work has been reported on in the press.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:41
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ohgodwhat posted:Why the gently caress did he talk with coworkers at waymo about this? How can you be so dumb and be in that position? From the sound of it he spoke with one person who he was close to and trying to recruit as a co-conspirator.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:43
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Subjunctive posted:What non-H1 visa would you recommend for executives? O is pretty tricky unless your work has been reported on in the press. O's the big one (there are ways to game the extraordinary talent reqs, but they're expensive). There's an investor option, too. But the reason why an auction is appealing to these types is because meeting the requirements is hard/expensive.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:44
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ohgodwhat posted:Why the gently caress did he talk with coworkers at waymo about this? How can you be so dumb and be in that position? one of the main reason people get caught doing crime is because they're bad at being criminals
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Mar 14, 2017 00:47
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Discendo Vox posted:O's the big one (there are ways to game the extraordinary talent reqs, but they're expensive). There's an investor option, too. But the reason why an auction is appealing to these types is because meeting the requirements is hard/expensive. I've done O applications, and the very similar EB-1 PERM, and I don't think they're a solution as you describe for most execs who currently immigrate. You may be familiar with different cases, of course, or worked with different attorneys. I'm sure that affects the assessments. Are you asserting that the people advocating for auctions are doing it largely to ease executive immigration? That would surprise me, based only on my own experiences importing people to the US. The stats are available, I suppose.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:49
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Subjunctive posted:I've done O applications, and the very similar EB-1 PERM, and I don't think they're a solution as you describe for most execs who currently immigrate. You may be familiar with different cases, of course, or worked with different attorneys. I'm sure that affects the assessments. I'm just basing my experience on reading policy pieces on it, and my experience in law school. I'm really not focusing from a user perspective so much as on what the goal of the visa program is. I think the people in the thread advocating auctions didn't know about LCAs and their abuse. Auctions are a nice appealing market-driven solution to a policy problem, so it has a strong heuristic appeal in some audiences.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:20
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Well, I would be surprised to learn that the goal of the O visa is to bring in executives, even if it can be applied that way if the exec happens to otherwise meet the criteria. "She's an exec? We'll just do an O" is not something I have heard or would expect to hear from an immigration attorney. I'd be surprised if one in 20 could qualify.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:23
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Congrats to Uber, they have managed to become so odious that I am rooting for loving Google in an IP lawsuit.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:38
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cheese posted:Congrats to Uber, they have managed to become so odious that I am rooting for loving Google in an IP lawsuit. The 'don't be evil' spirit lives on as they flatten Uber in a corporate espionage suit. If a smoking gun comes out confirming the collection of suspicious circumstances pointing to preplanning before 280/Otto was launched, well, Uber's gonna get loving wrecked.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:06
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Subjunctive posted:Well, I would be surprised to learn that the goal of the O visa is to bring in executives, even if it can be applied that way if the exec happens to otherwise meet the criteria. "She's an exec? We'll just do an O" is not something I have heard or would expect to hear from an immigration attorney. I'd be surprised if one in 20 could qualify. The goal of Os is to bring in real superstars, including businessmen-it's just that the executives are among the ones better equipped to game the system (by, for example, buying a newspaper in their country of origin). There's not a specific route for executives (or code monkeys), because there's not really a shortage of them. When there have been shortages, specific H visa variants were set up. There's been some vague motions toward a medical H visa, but that's DOA on a number of levels.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:40
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Discendo Vox posted:The goal of Os is to bring in real superstars, including businessmen-it's just that the executives are among the ones better equipped to game the system (by, for example, buying a newspaper in their country of origin). There's not a specific route for executives (or code monkeys), because there's not really a shortage of them. When there have been shortages, specific H visa variants were set up. There's been some vague motions toward a medical H visa, but that's DOA on a number of levels. There is a lot of daylight between H's "of qualifications that are scarce" and O's "internationally-significant accomplishments". The H bar reflects actual scarcity for execs, since most execs are terrible and terrible execs are very bad times. It was at least as hard to fill low-exec management positions at FB as it was to fill engineering jobs, and I assure you that there was no low-balling on comp. It's not unique to Facebook, or large tech companies, or tech companies, or large companies. It's a scarce talent set, and every company needs good senior managers.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:52
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Subjunctive posted:There is a lot of daylight between H's "of qualifications that are scarce" and O's "internationally-significant accomplishments". The H bar reflects actual scarcity for execs, since most execs are terrible and terrible execs are very bad times. It was at least as hard to fill low-exec management positions at FB as it was to fill engineering jobs, and I assure you that there was no low-balling on comp. It's not unique to Facebook, or large tech companies, or tech companies, or large companies. It's a scarce talent set, and every company needs good senior managers. I can totally see that as an argument- to increase the number of Hs, depending on some other factors, or create other policy changes that would address the shortage. The auction idea is, still, not really a match for it. The questions then might be "why is there a shortage of this kind of worker, is the shortage temporary, and should we be recruiting from overseas with temps to fill these positions"? Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 03:17
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We might be able to get more workers with particularly scarce skillsets if we paid them more. That might mean we let the companies that are willing to pay more actually get to hire them and then pay them more.
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Mar 14, 2017 04:39
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ShadowHawk posted:We might be able to get more workers with particularly scarce skillsets if we paid them more. That might mean we let the companies that are willing to pay more actually get to hire them and then pay them more. Let's try this again. Auctioning salaries does not prevent H-1Bs as strikebreaking, labor abuse or preparation for outsourcing. H-1B visas are field-neutral, designed to address temporary shortages in workers who have a bachelor's in a technical field. Higher pay != skillset in higher demand across the entire national economy. The fact that someone gets higher pay does not merit displacing workers in other fields, or employers from other companies. The workers with extremely scare skillsets immigrate using other visa programs that also exist. Auctioning salaries does not prevent displacement.
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Mar 14, 2017 05:10
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Discendo Vox posted:H-1B visas are field-neutral, designed to address temporary shortages in workers who have a bachelor's in a technical field. The fact that there is a separate quota for masters degree holders is proof positive that the system is not intended to be agnostic with respect to ability/training. Discendo Vox posted:The workers with extremely scare skillsets immigrate using other visa programs that also exist. For someone who has been adamant that the H-1B isn't a visa for talent, you must be aware that the criteria for O-1 don't map to extreme scarcity either. It would be fairly difficult for me to get an O-1/EB-1 in my current industry position, but definitely possible if I had done a postdoc instead given my publication history and another 3 years of publications/reviewing/etc -- but people with my skillset in industry are far more scarce and far more in demand (and I'm also comparatively much better at what I do in industry than I was in academia). blah_blah fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 08:50
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Discendo Vox posted:Let's try this again. Auctioning salaries does not prevent H-1Bs as strikebreaking, labor abuse or preparation for outsourcing. H-1B visas are field-neutral, designed to address temporary shortages in workers who have a bachelor's in a technical field. Higher pay != skillset in higher demand across the entire national economy. The fact that someone gets higher pay does not merit displacing workers in other fields, or employers from other companies. The workers with extremely scare skillsets immigrate using other visa programs that also exist. Auctioning salaries does not prevent displacement. The 'temporary shortage' is just a shortage at the at the wages and conditions being offered. Increase the salary by 10x and the shortage goes away. We're not talking about irreplaceable world-experts here. We're talking about companies wanting, year over year, to pay less than market-clearing wages. And, at some level, that's understandable. Visa restrictions are a form of protectionism for domestic workers. The H1B is a safety valve that limits the ability of this protectionism to drive wages up too high. But, if this is a safety valve, why not do the economically efficient thing and action the visas off? Let the jobs that generate the least economic surplus go unfilled.
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Mar 14, 2017 08:58
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call to action posted:What substantial shifts have there been that you don't see the Trump administration reversing, and why? What I've heard about are media/entertainment companies being asked to substantiate the "co-op" or "learning" nature of some of their unpaid internships, to ensure that they really are providing sufficient educational value and not just a way to hire on-call PAs for $0/hour. For unpaid internships like this, the enforcement has typically been state rather than federal. And if, say, NY, CA, and IL continue to more vigorously enforce their labor laws in this area, you wind up with a pretty large portion of the US (and an even higher portion of such jobs) with enforcement.
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Mar 14, 2017 10:12
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I am deeply enjoying all these folks responding without reading my posts, over and over and over again- nor, it appears, reading anything else about the purposes of the H-visas and the current regulatory structure. I'm also enjoying the endless appeals to (simplified, econ 101) market-driven economics through simple disruptive tricks. Simultaneously arguing that wages are fully market-responsive across all fields, and that the need for H-visas is just that companies don't want to pay people enough (which is totally a good reason to have them), to ignoring most of the reasons for current abuse, to arguing both sides of demand. My goodness! Let whomever has the most money control the flow of H-visas! Why hadn't someone thought of this first! Who on earth could this benefit?! Who could find it reasonable? The techbros are coming from inside the thread. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 11:43
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Discendo Vox posted:Let's try this again. Auctioning salaries does not prevent H-1Bs as strikebreaking, labor abuse or preparation for outsourcing. H-1B visas are field-neutral, designed to address temporary shortages in workers who have a bachelor's in a technical field. Higher pay != skillset in higher demand across the entire national economy. The fact that someone gets higher pay does not merit displacing workers in other fields, or employers from other companies. The workers with extremely scare skillsets immigrate using other visa programs that also exist. Auctioning salaries does not prevent displacement. Businesses that specialize in abusing workers might find that more difficult if they can only hire highly paid ones.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:58
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I think I've lost the plot.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:09
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Alright, I miss self-driving car chat now.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:48
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WrenP-Complete posted:I think I've lost the plot.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:57
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DACK FAYDEN posted:No, Plottr is a map app. You want Threadr. Hm, I was thinking iNS.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:05
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Discendo Vox posted:I am deeply enjoying all these folks responding without reading my posts Dude I'm trying, they're just so disconnected from how immigration in these visa classes actually works. Like with taxation, law enforcement, and relationships, approaching immigration purely in the abstract is just not productive. And the investor visa for hiring execs, or buying your way around O-1/EB-1 requirements? It is not encouraging. But sure, dismiss me as a tech bro, most of my hundred+ cases of visa applications were from that industry after all. It is a productive discussion tactic.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:56
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You gotta admit, it's a lot easier to dismiss someone's arguments by labeling them than actually engaging with their reasoning.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:14
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I'm willing to pay top dollar to bring in a skilled temporary foreign discussion participant.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:16
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Discendo Vox posted:I am deeply enjoying all these folks responding without reading my posts, over and over and over again- nor, it appears, reading anything else about the purposes of the H-visas and the current regulatory structure. I'm also enjoying the endless appeals to (simplified, econ 101) market-driven economics through simple disruptive tricks. Simultaneously arguing that wages are fully market-responsive across all fields, and that the need for H-visas is just that companies don't want to pay people enough (which is totally a good reason to have them), to ignoring most of the reasons for current abuse, to arguing both sides of demand.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:18
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Also quote:(simplified, econ 101) market-driven economics
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Mar 14, 2017 17:19
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Maluco Marinero posted:The 'don't be evil' spirit lives on as they flatten Uber in a corporate espionage suit. If a smoking gun comes out confirming the collection of suspicious circumstances pointing to preplanning before 280/Otto was launched, well, Uber's gonna get loving wrecked.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:31
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The CTO wasn't hit with a fine, was he? Palmer and Brendan were.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:35
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Subjunctive posted:The CTO wasn't hit with a fine, was he? Palmer and Brendan were. You're right. That's weird. (cite for not being sued at end of article, but the whole article is interesting.)
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Mar 14, 2017 17:44
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You may recognize the CTO as John Carmack, who is best known for demoing Minecraft VR at E3.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:45
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TheScott2K posted:You may recognize the CTO as John Carmack, who is best known for demoing Minecraft VR at E3. Ah, these young 'uns.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:50
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TheScott2K posted:You may recognize the CTO as John Carmack, who is best known for demoing Minecraft VR at E3. Huh, that's what he's doing nowadays? Always weird when the old PC game developers crop up elsewhere. What's John Romero doing now?
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Mar 14, 2017 18:15
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MikeCrotch posted:Huh, that's what he's doing nowadays? Always weird when the old PC game developers crop up elsewhere. What's John Romero doing now? Phone game Kickstarters
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Mar 14, 2017 18:15
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I think he also ported some games to the iphone. And he's also suing Zenimax for apparently failing to pay out some of the id acquisition cash.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:15
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TheScott2K posted:You may recognize the CTO as John Carmack, who is best known for demoing Minecraft VR at E3. Pretty sure that's not what he's best known for...
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Mar 14, 2017 18:22
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