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it's also kind of weird that you can't end your movement under a mountain so the underway ends up a real pain to use in the place where you'd expect it to be super good (it's still way better than not having it in those areas obviously)
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Mar 28, 2017 07:21
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I've started a new Dwarf campaign because I'm a baby that's bad at the game. On Turn 80 I've secured the entire eastern area (killed the Greenskins, so everything is blue except a single dwarf city that's giving me way more money in trading that would give me otherwise), and confederated the clan near Tilea, but to my annoyance Chaos has already crushed most of the Empire (and vampires). What's the plan here? Wait for them to come into my lands beating up stacks or push up using the Underway and rotate armies as needed? My armies are mostly Longbeards, Quarrelers and catapults, so I clearly need some upgrades. Any suggestion on army composition? Most of the units are going to come from Global recruitment, so any change is going to be slow. Cash flow is okayish, 6k because I have three extra armies running around my territory playing whack-a-mole with revolts, with only Dwarf King and Slayer King available to punch Chaos.
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Mar 28, 2017 08:18
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Fat Samurai posted:I've started a new Dwarf campaign because I'm a baby that's bad at the game. On Turn 80 I've secured the entire eastern area (killed the Greenskins, so everything is blue except a single dwarf city that's giving me way more money in trading that would give me otherwise), and confederated the clan near Tilea, but to my annoyance Chaos has already crushed most of the Empire (and vampires). What's the plan here? Wait for them to come into my lands beating up stacks or push up using the Underway and rotate armies as needed? Thunderers and slayers are basically necessary for fighting Warriors of Chaos, due to predominance of armoured units and monsters respectively. Longbeards will be okay but take lots of casualties, and I recommend keeping some quarrellers for anti-marauder-horseman duties - foot archers beat mounted skirmishers any day.
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Mar 28, 2017 08:48
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Is this a good thread to ask for advice in the vein of "I have never played Total War and have no idea what the gently caress is going on"? Because that's me. I started as Dwarves because they were easiest, apparently, and I immediately started expanding southwest with a Lord from my capital and went northeast with Thorgrim to do the quest I was offered up there. Took some cities down south, but I'm embroiled in this endless war with the Greenskins where I'll beat them down, then start recovering my armies, and by the time I do so Skarsnik and Pals are back at fighting strength too. Should I be sieging Black Crag to try and get control of this whole province? It doesn't seem like I have the time to. I guess as general "I'm not good at this game" questions: 1. Does it matter if I just click "End Battle" as soon as it becomes available? Or should I be trying to whittle down the stragglers? 2. Right now I usually do battles by making all my Quarrelers focus-fire their Lord until he routs/dies for the Leadership debuff. Is this a bad idea? 3. Should I chase down routing units? The dwarves don't seem to have any good speedy characters to hunt them down. 4. I don't really have any idea how the siege mechanics work. 5. Usually when a unit's near death, a little white mark appears in their HP bar, typically while they're routing. Is that supposed to represent regenerating HP/Morale? I haven't really been able to parse it.
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Mar 28, 2017 09:04
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LordHippoman posted:Is this a good thread to ask for advice in the vein of "I have never played Total War and have no idea what the gently caress is going on"? Because that's me. 1. It matters to an extent - if you just hit End Battle the game will simulate chasing down the routing troops, but it's not necessarily as good at it as you might be. This has an exception which we'll come back to. 2. This isn't a terrible idea! You should maybe diverge if the enemy has better targets for your quarrellers, such as massed archers that might hurt you while you're focusing the lord. It's also less effective against armies with higher leadership than the greenskins have. 3. Yes, you should, but dwarfs are kind of the exception as you're the slowest faction and lack any good chase options. As dwarfs I tend to just let my ranged and artillery fire on fleeing troops until they're out of range then end the battle. 4. This is sort of a broad non-question so I'm not sure where to start. Do you mean like... campaign map siege mechanics, or how sieges work in battle, or what? 5. I've no idea what this is, sorry! Never noticed such a thing.
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Mar 28, 2017 09:14
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John Charity Spring posted:
My bad, I worded it poorly. I meant on the campaign map. Do the siege units I can buy with the labor force have actual battle presence? Or do they just make the settlement faster to surrender? I don't think I've had an actual siege battle on the RTS layer yet.
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Mar 28, 2017 09:18
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The purpose of continuing battle after you've won is to kill/capture as many routing units as you can (capturing isn't a special game mechanic btw, a certain percentage of units you "kill" in the post-battle are just counted as captives). This is generally done with cavalry, which dwarves don't get, so you kind of miss out. If there is an important enemy unit you think you can catch with infantry (or whittle off the last of their health with quarrelers/artillery) it might be worth trying to kill them off, but in general dwarves just end the battle when they win. If you are attacking a city, you can forget about all of this, because all the units in the city die automatically if you beat them. Focussing quarrelers on the enemy lord isn't a bad idea, but it's really situational. Generally the best way to deal with a lord is to hit them with artillery/ranged on the way in, and then sicc your lord, heroes, or armour-piercing infantry on them. Most lords are heavily armoured, so quarrelers are not especially good against them; you might be better off targetting the enemy's ranged units, especially ranged cavalry. You basically can't catch ranged cav with your melee units; you need to outshoot them, and quarrelers are excellent at that. You basically win the battle by breaking the enemy's morale, and while killing their lord helps with this, shooting their main line or routing their ranged units is a much easier way to accomplish the same thing. When you siege a city, two timers begin: one until the city runs out of food (default is around 6 turns), and one until the city just gives up (around 12 turns). When the city runs out of food, the garrison and attached army experience extremely severe attrition; one or two turns of it and it's nearly impossible to lose to them. Note that garrison buildings increase the siege timer, and certain skills and techs can decrease it. Anyway, if you don't feel like waiting, you can just attack the city. If it has walls, you need to fight through them; if not, you will fight a field-battle against the garrison. All the provincial capitals have walls by default, and all the other towns can get them if they upgrade the garrison building to level 2. (Also all Brettonian towns get them at Tier 3, and all wood elf towns are unwalled). Certain agents--I forget which for the dwarves--get a "destroy walls" action, with which they can blow a couple of holes in a settlement's walls. This is not an in-battle thing; you need to target the city with that agent, and you can only do that when it's NOT under siege. Anyway, when you besiege a walled town, you get the option to build siege equipment: rams and siege towers. You should basically never build rams, they're too slow to be useful. Siege towers are great; for every "unit" you build, you get two towers in the battle itself. Some people recommend hanging back until your artillery has killed the towers/gate/walls, but I've gotten along fine without that. Unless you outnumber the enemy massively, you should focus your attack on one part of the wall. Any artillery should fire on the gate, or on high-value units on the walls. You should run you lord and any miners in your army over to the gate to bash it down; miners get a hidden stat that makes them really good at doing this. Your other infantry should be loaded into siege towers and sent straight into the walls as quickly as possible; if they rush, the enemy towers can't shoot them down. Your units are generally better than the orc ones; you can expect them to win on the walls, and on the gate once it's down. Where possible you should try to flank the enemy; the goal, like on a field battle, is to cause a route. Your quarrelers will be much less effective than normal shooting dudes on walls, but they'll do good work focus-firing on units you've already engaged in melee. Once the forces on the walls break, it's extremely hard to lose. Just advance on the city centre and clear it out. You can expect to find whatever cavalry and artillery the enemy has there. If siege towers aren't an option, you can just right-click on the walls with your units to use ladders, but you should try to avoid this. Using ladders is exhausting, and tiredness causes quite major stat debuffs. I'm not sure which little white mark you mean. Does it look like an eye? Kazzah fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 09:32
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That advice helps a lot, thanks. Doing a battle and focusing down the archers instead of just going straight for Snarsnik actually gave me a lot fewer casualties. Glad to have the help, since I'm enjoying this game quite a bit and I'm looking forward to opponents who aren't just Greenskins  .(Also, I think that white tick is actually a graphical bug. Whoops.)
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Mar 28, 2017 10:10
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tayvaan posted:Agreed Just get the guys who did Battlefleet Gothic to do it. Also get the CA guys who did Alien: Isolation to do a WHFB version.
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Mar 28, 2017 10:45
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Alien Isolation: war hammer edition is something I'd play the shoot out of. Also I wish vermin tide was expanded for all races. I don't care how dumb the lore reason for it would be. Anyone know if the ladder is global? I hear Turin say he's around 100.
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Mar 28, 2017 11:27
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Okay, with Sneaky Stabbin' getting hit with the nerf stick hard, what Waaagh! magic variant is preferable now? Particularly with Crooked Moon? Does blowing everything up with Orc magic beat out the utility of the Little Waaagh?
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Mar 28, 2017 13:31
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Itchy Nuisance is still good.
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Mar 28, 2017 13:38
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4th Horseman posted:Alien Isolation: war hammer edition is something I'd play the shoot out of. Also I wish vermin tide was expanded for all races. I don't care how dumb the lore reason for it would be. You're allowed to say poo poo on the internet by the way.
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Mar 28, 2017 14:26
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Empowered foot of gork is amazing at dropping a super heavy unit but that requires more things to happen than dropping itchy onto their front line.
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Mar 28, 2017 14:34
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A real underground map or a more comprehensive design for it would be cool. The more factions you allow to use the current system, the more it feels like a placeholder and not a feature. I get the feeling they'll just add a couple tactical maps like a sewer siege for empire towns and call it a day though. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 14:36
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Mazz posted:A real underground map or a more comprehensive design for it would be cool. The more factions you allow to use the current system, the more it feels like a placeholder and not a feature. e: vvvv Neat, I'm glad they do that. I thought I had to hover over the heart icon on their little card to see the possible regen HP remaining. vvvv Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 14:55
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That white line you're asking about is the limit on HP regeneration. Certain units and abilities can gain back HP, but it used to be really broken to stack HP regen infinitely, so they capped it at 60% of the unit's total HP.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:43
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E: beaten To the poster about the white mark on HP bar on routed units: Does it look like a | crossing the bar? If so that is displaying the max HP that unit could recover from healing items/spells. A unit can only regenerate ~2x the max hp from healing, so when a unit gets very low hp that max is also very low and shown on the hp bar. In practice this means very little unless you are fighting someone who has lots of regeneration like Vampire Counts armies.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:47
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I will put up the specs of my laptop later to see if it works. Anyway, I have always kind of liked Wood Elves so I am curious about how they work as a faction and anything I should be aware of?
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Mar 28, 2017 16:23
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Hunt11 posted:I will put up the specs of my laptop later to see if it works. Anyway, I have always kind of liked Wood Elves so I am curious about how they work as a faction and anything I should be aware of? The Wood Elves are the only race that can settle in the four provinces of Athel Loren, the forest they live in, or control the fifth unique province, the Oak of Ages. They start split into four factions, two of which are playable (one with an elf focus and one with a forest spirit focus, broadly). They can occupy any other province on the map, unlike other factions which are restricted in what they can take, but they can't make full use of any of them; their home provinces are therefore super-sized to 10 building slots rather than 6 to make up for it. They need to get amber, a unique resource, either by taking regions for themselves or by allying with other factions. They need amber to upgrade their buildings (especially the Oak of Ages) and also to research certain technologies and maintain certain units. Once they upgrade the Oak to level 5, they face large-scale Beastmen invasions and have to fight a final battle to win the campaign.
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Mar 28, 2017 16:50
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Fangz posted:Itchy Nuisance is still good. Also Gork'll fix it. The power of a loss of vigor (and the other things) is very effective, especially against armored foes.. In the end the greatest enemy of the dwarfs is their own fat, lazy bodies. Shoot poison arrows into a mass of dwarfs while casting Gork'll Fix It and that armor will turn to paper.
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Mar 28, 2017 17:09
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LordHippoman posted:That advice helps a lot, thanks. Doing a battle and focusing down the archers instead of just going straight for Snarsnik actually gave me a lot fewer casualties. I don't think this was mentioned yet, but use archers against lightly armored targets (30 or less) for better effect. I'd not use them against heroes because they tend to have really high armor and ignore most of the damage. Thunderers do much better against heroes, but you are still probably better off using them to flank things like black orcs.
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Mar 28, 2017 17:13
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The real answer to how wood elves work as a faction is that you level the gently caress out of their red melee tree first, research the +40 growth first, and make a whole lotta wardancers
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Mar 28, 2017 17:29
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Many heroes have so much baked in armor and missile resistance that its a waste of ammo to do this unless their whole army is routing anyway. I use quarrelers on goblin/orc archers and the moment the target routs I switch targets. Having enemy units routing/falling back is a good Ld malus in itself for nearby enemy units. I typically will use my dwarf Lords/heroes to duel their lords and heroes. Get a unit with very good melee defense to wear down their vigor so they're easier to finish off later on. Focus firing Giants, however, does work well because they don't have all that much armor and they are super easy to hit. A few other things I've learned about Dwarf missile units: Quarrelers fire in a pretty decent arc; the best way to make the most of this is to fire at maximum range so the projectiles are falling at a steep angle. This makes it a lot easier to fire over the heads of friendly units engaged with the target. Thunderers are like a ranged counterpart to great weapons.Their attacks are slower but per-hit they are more damaging I believe (at least for me I noticed an opening salvo of thunderers seems more devastating). Above 30 armor (so like Orc Boyz and most basic infantry units) Thunderers outdamage Quarrlers in spite of shooting slower, but the trick is to get in a good fire position, either by flanking from the sides or creating 'gaps' between your infantry clumps that the Thunderers can shoot between. Thunderers will do much more noticible damage to heroes and Lords because of their Armor piercing but also because their projectiles travel faster and hit moving targets more effectively. Irondrakes are functionally similar to Quarrlers except for shorter range, but the arc is there and lobbing flamethrower salvoes works fine. Vs very lightly armor targets like Night Goblins they are absolutely devastating and a single salvo can cause some charging units to rout before they can engage you in melee. The RoR version is nuts because it gets AP and can murder clumps of armored units (but be careful using it too close to your own guys) Trollhammers are more like infantry-based cannons but their slow rate of fire means positioning is really important. I don't use them much because usually I'll have several units of cannon that can snipe down big easy-to-hit targets from much further away, but I suppose Trollhammers would be particularly nice vs mounted lords, especially the flyers since its easier to get a clear shot when they're in the air. The explosive charges on Miners and Ironbreakers are in fact AP and these are pretty decent vs Chaos. Not only do they disrupt enemy infantry charging at you by knocking them around, but once clumped up they will damage a lot of units. These weapons are incredibly fun to use vs enemies on walls or jammed up in gates.
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Mar 28, 2017 17:30
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Shooting units is nearly always better than lords unless it's a big rear end target like kholek or a slow moving high value target like runesmith. You're immediately removing potential damage with each enemy trooper you kill, but a heroic suffers less degradation as health goes down. 4th Horseman fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 17:31
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It's also that most of your shots will miss if you aim at a man sized target. Focus firing down big stuff like giant spiders and giants is very worthwhile though, especially if you don't have slayers yet. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 17:50
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Does the AI need to unlock legendary lords to recruit them, like a player has to? I want to confederate Mannfred and his two buddies, but he is still stuck in Drakenhof so if he has to unlock them i'll be waiting a looong time before he recruits them and i can unite Sylvania.
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Mar 28, 2017 18:29
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Party In My Diapee posted:Does the AI need to unlock legendary lords to recruit them, like a player has to? I want to confederate Mannfred and his two buddies, but he is still stuck in Drakenhof so if he has to unlock them i'll be waiting a looong time before he recruits them and i can unite Sylvania. No, they have no requirements for recruiting them. Same way they don't have to do the quests and instead just get the relevant items when the lord reaches the quest-start level.
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Mar 28, 2017 18:50
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12 pages and I have seen no one mention how excited they are for REPEATING CROSSBOWS what is wrong with you guys. I hope they bring in the corsairs with repeating crossbow pistols so you can glock some fools.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:41
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BadLlama posted:12 pages and I have seen no one mention how excited they are for REPEATING CROSSBOWS what is wrong with you guys. I hope they bring in the corsairs with repeating crossbow pistols so you can glock some fools. As long as they hold them sideways
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Mar 28, 2017 19:43
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Fine, I'm super excited for rapid firing AP repeater crossbows behind a line of tough spears.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:47
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wiegieman posted:Fine, I'm super excited for rapid firing AP repeater crossbows behind a line of tough spears. Goodman.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:49
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Dark Elves seem really good and I don't see what their weakness is, but I never played the table top game. I mean I would guess it would be armor/line infantry but we thought that was going to be the case for wood elves and they turned out fine. I guess a lack of long range shooting/artillery? Repeating crossbows seem bad rear end but I feel like they'd have to tone down the range to make it fair.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:51
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BadLlama posted:12 pages and I have seen no one mention how excited they are for REPEATING CROSSBOWS what is wrong with you guys. I hope they bring in the corsairs with repeating crossbow pistols so you can glock some fools. did htey announce TW: 3 kingdoms?
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Mar 28, 2017 19:52
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Low armor and health will probably be their primary weakness but they should have access to some very strong monsters and Calvary/chariot units. None of this matters though as you will take 20 units of repeating crossbows. I just hope their Hydra's don't need to be baby sat by animal herder dudes.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:53
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Dark Elves seem really good and I don't see what their weakness is, but I never played the table top game. I mean I would guess it would be armor/line infantry but we thought that was going to be the case for wood elves and they turned out fine. I guess a lack of long range shooting/artillery? Repeating crossbows seem bad rear end but I feel like they'd have to tone down the range to make it fair. They're still elves. No matter how spikey the armor looks, it's still an elf in there, which means frail elf bones.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:54
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It's nice conceptually, but since they'll undoubtedly be skirmish-focused it's gonna be the equivalent of fighting horse archers in Mount and Blade, only all of their units are horse archers.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:58
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Dark Elves seem really good and I don't see what their weakness is, but I never played the table top game. I mean I would guess it would be armor/line infantry but we thought that was going to be the case for wood elves and they turned out fine. I guess a lack of long range shooting/artillery? Repeating crossbows seem bad rear end but I feel like they'd have to tone down the range to make it fair. Low armor, low health, small unit sizes, expensive units and weak line infantry would be classic to them. So long as their tech+redline skills aren't as ludicrous as welfs, it should be fine
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Mar 28, 2017 19:59
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Kaza42 posted:Low armor, low health, small unit sizes, expensive units and weak line infantry would be classic to them. So long as their tech+redline skills aren't as ludicrous as welfs, it should be fine I think their unit sizes will be about average, the last update to them before the thing we have now reduced a lot of the point cost to their units so you could field more mans. I just don't recall them having any true fodder units like peasants or goblins etc. I just looked at the GW store for warhams and Dark Elves are considered Order now? And Bretonnia doesn't exist?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:05
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BadLlama posted:I think their unit sizes will be about average, the last update to them before the thing we have now reduced a lot of the point cost to their units so you could field more mans. I just don't recall them having any true fodder units like peasants or goblins etc. There's no reason they have to have fodder units though. Dwarfs, Empire, and Wood Elves don't really have fodder troops on par with zombies, peasants, or goblins.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:08
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