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The goon who did an LP of it on these very forums, Bobbinthreadbare, explained why the game suffers such a tonal shift, and if I remembering it right Cole Phelps was not even supposed to be the player character it was the other guy or something to that extent. It was a very good LP and I highly suggest it if you wanna see the game done to completion and not have to do it yourself.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:20
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:It's crazy how suddenly and dramatically LA Noire shifts from the really good slice-of-life cases at the beginning to absolutely bonkers and terrible conspiracies. No, that's where it gets good because it finally embraces its own inherent dumbness.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:23
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Feonir posted:The goon who did an LP of it on these very forums, Bobbinthreadbare, explained why the game suffers such a tonal shift, and if I remembering it right Cole Phelps was not even supposed to be the player character it was the other guy or something to that extent. It was a very good LP and I highly suggest it if you wanna see the game done to completion and not have to do it yourself.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:16
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:It's crazy how suddenly and dramatically LA Noire shifts from the really good slice-of-life cases at the beginning to absolutely bonkers and terrible conspiracies. The fact that games can't have normal plots and everything has to be some grand high-stakes BS is my biggest complaint about games right now. Especially military games, where you have to be some elite special forces dude recovering nukes from Russian ultranationalists in every game instead of just being a military guy from Country A shooting military guys from Country B. Like 3/4 of all games are fantasy or sci-fi and every single one has the exact same plot where you have to stop the ancient evil that just awakened before it can [destroy/take over] the [world/galaxy].
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Apr 2, 2017 17:50
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Chuck Buried Treasure posted:The fact that games can't have normal plots and everything has to be some grand high-stakes BS is my biggest complaint about games right now. Especially military games, where you have to be some elite special forces dude recovering nukes from Russian ultranationalists in every game instead of just being a military guy from Country A shooting military guys from Country B. Like 3/4 of all games are fantasy or sci-fi and every single one has the exact same plot where you have to stop the ancient evil that just awakened before it can [destroy/take over] the [world/galaxy]. This is pretty much all action oriented fiction though, not just video games. "Raise the stakes" is the standard lazy storytelling technique.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:05
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I liked LA Noire
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Apr 2, 2017 19:13
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I remember being super engrossed into the intense realism of LA Noire, and that feeling completely evaporating the moment I found myself surrounded by waist high boxes and gunning down waves of people like it was the zombie apocalypse.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:34
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oldpainless posted:I liked LA Noire more like oldtasteless 
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Apr 2, 2017 19:37
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Away all Goats posted:I remember being super engrossed into the intense realism of LA Noire, and that feeling completely evaporating the moment I found myself surrounded by waist high boxes and gunning down waves of people like it was the zombie apocalypse. Somewhere in an alternate reality LA Noire was allowed to be the adventure game that it clearly wanted to be. 
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Apr 2, 2017 19:38
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Bar Crow posted:This is pretty much all action oriented fiction though, not just video games. "Raise the stakes" is the standard lazy storytelling technique. That's one thing i liked about the first Hotline Miami, that you're doing all this because it's more interesting and pays better than delivering pizzas or whatever, and even when you find out what your employers' goals are they just seem delusional and self-serving. OK you've been working for the Dark Enlightenment Cato Institute of Mom's Basement, FL the whole time but who gives a poo poo, it's not like it's gonna matter.. The sequel retroactively makes it all a much bigger deal though. I especially like it when your character has a clear, understandable, sympathetic goal that's probably a bad idea and compels them to do stuff they definitely should not, but you kind of want them to succeed anyway. Shadow of the Colossus is great about this. Kane & Lynch is oddly good about it
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Apr 2, 2017 20:43
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I'm fine with a world-ender as long as the person responsible is interesting and the world feels like it actually cares. A lot of games have a world-ending baddie and just flop 'em out on the dull gameboard as if that's enough. You give me a reason to care about the world ending and a person with a compelling reason to end it and I'm so fuckin' in. Especially if the scale drops away right at the end and it's just you and them in a room fighting for what you believe in.
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Apr 2, 2017 21:02
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Bar Crow posted:This is pretty much all action oriented fiction though, not just video games. "Raise the stakes" is the standard lazy storytelling technique. True. I just wish games could branch out a little more. I really appreciate when a game, especially a SF/F game since they always seem to be the least imaginative story-wise, decides to just keep things small. Like Tyranny kinda gets big at the very end but for the most part is just about a small power struggle in a little backwater province. As much deserved flak as both games got, I dig Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda's stories over the other games in their respective series--DA2 had you worrying about your family at first and then when it did get bigger it was still all focused on the one city-state, and while I'm not through with Andromeda I'm liking worrying about the fate of this relatively small colonization effort more than the first trilogy's "we filed the serial numbers off the backstory of Galactic Civilizations 2 so go save the galaxy again!!!" The Witcher 3 was probably the best since it managed to have its cake and eat it too: there was still the Wild Hunt trying to take over the world and the White Frost threatening to destroy the world, but Geralt didn't give a poo poo about that except insofar as it related to him finding his adoptive daughter and keeping her safe. Basically I can only save the world or prevent the detonation of a nuke so many times before I stop giving a poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2017 21:09
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I didn't actually mind it as much in the original Mass Effect trilogy, because that one at least took the time to actually set things up properly. The entire first game was pretty much just about what the hell was going on with that giant weird space ship Sovereign and how the Geth were going crazy, with only a small glimpse at something larger going on towards the end. Then the second one expanded on the threat and its nature, revealing the true scope and end-game of the whole thing. The third one was then focused entirely around the final galaxy-wide clash and endgame, and might just have pulled it off if the ending hadn't been such dogshit.
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Apr 2, 2017 21:29
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:It's crazy how suddenly and dramatically LA Noire shifts from the really good slice-of-life cases at the beginning to absolutely bonkers and terrible conspiracies. I feel like they just cut out a huge middle part that'd work as a transition. Like, spoilers for a really old game but Cole cheating on his wife? Cole, the most boring person to ever walk this earth? Who is this lover? Like for gently caress's sake, I was convinced he was framed for having an affair for how unbelievable that was.
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Apr 2, 2017 21:49
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Bar Crow posted:This is pretty much all action oriented fiction though, not just video games. "Raise the stakes" is the standard lazy storytelling technique. Its something that RPG mechanics sorta encourage as well.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:26
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Somfin posted:I'm fine with a world-ender as long as the person responsible is interesting and the world feels like it actually cares. A lot of games have a world-ending baddie and just flop 'em out on the dull gameboard as if that's enough. You give me a reason to care about the world ending and a person with a compelling reason to end it and I'm so fuckin' in. I liked this a lot in Witcher 2. Chuck Buried Treasure posted:True. I just wish games could branch out a little more. I really appreciate when a game, especially a SF/F game since they always seem to be the least imaginative story-wise, decides to just keep things small. Like Tyranny kinda gets big at the very end but for the most part is just about a small power struggle in a little backwater province. As much deserved flak as both games got, I dig Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda's stories over the other games in their respective series--DA2 had you worrying about your family at first and then when it did get bigger it was still all focused on the one city-state, and while I'm not through with Andromeda I'm liking worrying about the fate of this relatively small colonization effort more than the first trilogy's "we filed the serial numbers off the backstory of Galactic Civilizations 2 so go save the galaxy again!!!" The Witcher 3 was probably the best since it managed to have its cake and eat it too: there was still the Wild Hunt trying to take over the world and the White Frost threatening to destroy the world, but Geralt didn't give a poo poo about that except insofar as it related to him finding his adoptive daughter and keeping her safe. What I liked about Witcher 2's plot is that it initially comes off as this big, intriguing mystery about which powerful organization is pulling the strings and as the game reveals more of the story you realize it's actually about a small group of people in power who are constantly trying to gently caress each other over and the ones who suffer the most are the people underneath them who are mostly powerless to retaliate.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:41
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I'm fine with the world-ending cataclysm in Hotline Miami 2 because I think it was really trying to underscore how nihilistic that entire world is. It was certainly not an epic game or trying to be one.
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Apr 3, 2017 01:19
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HM2 even has some dialogue with the 4th wall breaking 'spirit of violence' that the rooster mask from the first game turned into that points out "you're not gonna like how this all ends" which I always thought was more in reference to the player than the guy he's talking to
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Apr 3, 2017 01:26
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It's really a shame that the level design in Hotline 2 was so aggressively aggravating, because I really liked the first game and the broadening of the scope and the overall grim outlook on humanity it had really struck a chord for me. But the game just was not pleasant to play like the first one. And the level editor came out maybe six months too late.
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Apr 3, 2017 02:46
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Chuck Buried Treasure posted:I really appreciate when a game, especially a SF/F game since they always seem to be the least imaginative story-wise, decides to just keep things small. Probably my biggest problem with the Shadowrun Returns games is how the plot inevitably ramps up to some world-ending disaster that you have to stop. Doing the little runs along the way for and against various corporations is great, but then it's all capped off with some conspiracy or cult trying to take over or destroy the world, and I feel like it undermines the whole "you're an insignificant cog in the machine" feel you get from the setting. Like, you're just one guy doing his best to survive in a world controlled by giant corporations and ancient gods and dragons and nothing you do will ever change anything - except for that one time you saved the world.
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Apr 3, 2017 04:24
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Tiggum posted:Probably my biggest problem with the Shadowrun Returns games is how the plot inevitably ramps up to some world-ending disaster that you have to stop. Doing the little runs along the way for and against various corporations is great, but then it's all capped off with some conspiracy or cult trying to take over or destroy the world, and I feel like it undermines the whole "you're an insignificant cog in the machine" feel you get from the setting. Like, you're just one guy doing his best to survive in a world controlled by giant corporations and ancient gods and dragons and nothing you do will ever change anything - except for that one time you saved the world. I agree. I felt like dragon age 2 had a lot of potential because it was a small focused plot on the politics of one city instead of saving the world yet again. Shame about the actual execution tho.
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Apr 3, 2017 04:33
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I generally agree, but I like how Shadowrun Hong Kong ramps up to it's doomsday scenario. That felt like it was done right.
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Apr 3, 2017 04:53
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marshmallow creep posted:I generally agree, but I like how Shadowrun Hong Kong ramps up to it's doomsday scenario. That felt like it was done right. I almost said Hong Kong was the exception, but actually I still think it would have been slightly better without that.
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Apr 3, 2017 05:48
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:It's crazy how suddenly and dramatically LA Noire shifts from the really good slice-of-life cases at the beginning to absolutely bonkers and terrible conspiracies. I feel like it could have worked if they just stuck with one version or another. Like if it was just low-key, straightforward murders with a boring straight-laced protagonist or if they just leaned into it and made everything a lurid EC Comics universe with Cole as the unhinged monster they want us to think he is at the end. Trying to do both just makes neither one of them satisfying.
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Apr 3, 2017 07:11
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So some more about FF14 pvp and why its a loving dumpster fire: Crowd control, whether it be stuns or binds or sleeps, are the most unfun thing and almost every class has at least 2. Now there is a thing in game that diminishes the effectiveness of them as you keep getting hit by them, except you'll be loving dead which I am POSITIVE resets your immunity. So you'll get stun spammed, die, come back (just in time for their stuns to come off cooldown!) and get stunned again. And if you're really luck you'll have players who just alternate, one will use a bind while they beat on you then another will stun you then bind then stun then bind then stun. I just had a match where a player was constantly sleeping me and I couldn't loving do anything about it. In fact a quarter of the drat match I was loving asleep. There is an ability you can use at any time to cure every status ailment except 1: Its on a 90 second cooldown and 2: Nothing is stopping them from simply reapplying the stun. Get the attention of a paladin, get stunned and purify it? He'll just stun you again. You're going to loving sit there helpless and get beat on and you will like it. So you're thinking surely there is an ability or item or something that will nip that in the bud right? Well there ARE potions and foods that provide a resistance against every status ailment in the game. Too loving bad not a single one of them actually works in pvp! There is even materia you can meld onto your gear to provide resistances AND THEY DON'T loving WORK! I guess they only work in specific pvp mode? But for the majority and more to the point: The ones people actually play they don't actually work. Latency is a mother fucker resulting in you being right up in someone's rear end and they start running off but on your screen they're right next to you next thing you know they're just out of reach and you're trying to chase them but its too late you'll never be able to catch up. This resulted in a match where someone was trying to run away and I sprinted past him and used an ability that pushes him away from me. Except thanks to latency when I popped it he managed to get ever so slightly ahead of me and was pushed further toward his destination. This also causes endless frustration with ranged players cause you'll slow them then bind them then sprint off and jump around a corner or over a cliff and they're still managing to not only keep up but also constantly hitting you. The fact that your team will never ever tell you when they bailed. I can be trying to kill someone (who is targeted by their healer so that aint happening) then suddenly 20 people will be on top of me and I check the map and my team is halfway across the map.
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Apr 3, 2017 07:16
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Somfin posted:I'm fine with a world-ender as long as the person responsible is interesting and the world feels like it actually cares. A lot of games have a world-ending baddie and just flop 'em out on the dull gameboard as if that's enough. You give me a reason to care about the world ending and a person with a compelling reason to end it and I'm so fuckin' in. I really wish more games with apocalyptic plots gave you the option to just go "lol k, have fun. Reality sucks anyway." Like in Fallout where you could betray your vault and just let the Master keep doin' his thing. Like hell yeah, I get to be a nine foot tall killing machine that can live like 300 years? Sign my rear end right the gently caress up! Who cares that humans will end up going extinct in the process? Look at what we did to this place. We suck. Or better yet have the apocalyptic plot be what the player is trying to further. Like drat it, I've saved the world hundreds of times by now. Can't I just blow it the gently caress up once?
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Apr 3, 2017 08:44
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Afghanistan 11 is trying to hard in it's strive to be realistic. I get why not being attacked by the Taliban would decrease willingness from Washington to send me funding to go around visiting dinky villages but in a strategy game it just becomes insufferable that you're so dependent on the whims of the AI to be able to play the game.
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Apr 3, 2017 08:49
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Tiggum posted:Probably my biggest problem with the Shadowrun Returns games is how the plot inevitably ramps up to some world-ending disaster that you have to stop. Doing the little runs along the way for and against various corporations is great, but then it's all capped off with some conspiracy or cult trying to take over or destroy the world, and I feel like it undermines the whole "you're an insignificant cog in the machine" feel you get from the setting. Like, you're just one guy doing his best to survive in a world controlled by giant corporations and ancient gods and dragons and nothing you do will ever change anything - except for that one time you saved the world.
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Apr 3, 2017 09:44
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Leal posted:So some more about FF14 pvp and why its a loving dumpster fire Pretty much don't bother with MMO PvP unless you're playing an MMO that was up front about a focus on it.
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Apr 3, 2017 09:59
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I really wish more games with apocalyptic plots gave you the option to just go "lol k, have fun. Reality sucks anyway." Like in Fallout where you could betray your vault and just let the Master keep doin' his thing. Like hell yeah, I get to be a nine foot tall killing machine that can live like 300 years? Sign my rear end right the gently caress up! Who cares that humans will end up going extinct in the process? Look at what we did to this place. We suck. And while super mutants might be sterile, they've got a few hundred years to solve the problem. Sounds like plenty of time to make cloning vats or something.
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Apr 3, 2017 10:52
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my favourite stupid Fallout retcon (was it from 3 or 2/Fallout Bible? Could be either) is that super mutants stopped being sterile at some point because it turned out to just be a temporary issue
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Apr 3, 2017 10:57
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In Fallout 3 they claimed that the virus erased all sexual characteristics of the mutants, which kinda renders all finer points of sterility moot. Also it doesn't really make sense. But then again, it is Fallout 3, so not it making any sense is to be expected.
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Apr 3, 2017 11:06
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Persona 5 is back with demon negotiation. For those who don't know, in a lot of Shin Megami Tensei titles, to get more demons in your retinue you need to negotiate with them in battle. This involves getting asked a few questions and selecting a choice from three possibilities as to what you want to answer; random bullshit like "Am I pretty?" 1- Yes 2- No 3- Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter what you answer because every demon is different, and an answer that pleases one will piss off another, even if they're the exact same type of demon. What people say this does is give personality to the demons. This doesn't actually matter because you don't give a poo poo and just need them to be mulched up to create more demons, so why give a poo poo about their 'personality'? What it actually does, is make you roll a boring loving dice every time you want a demon in your party. A dice that has 'you lose your entire turn and get attacked' as three of the options. Which is not a lot of fun! The fact that it's back in Persona, after missing from P3 and P4 is a real goddamn annoyance.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:53
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Morpheus posted:Persona 5 is back with demon negotiation. If it's anything like previous games what's happening is that picking the correct answer just boosts the odds, because not all Jack Frosts are the same. You loving racist.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:56
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Slime posted:If it's anything like previous games what's happening is that picking the correct answer just boosts the odds, because not all Jack Frosts are the same. Ra-hee-ho-wa now.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:02
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Holy cow I'm suddenly interested in Persona 5. Are the enemies still boring faceless blobs? Are the protagonists still in high school?
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Apr 3, 2017 14:08
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StrixNebulosa posted:Holy cow I'm suddenly interested in Persona 5. Are the enemies still boring faceless blobs? Are the protagonists still in high school? The common mooks are back to being demons like they were in Persona 1 and 2, the protagonists are still in high school but basically operate under the principle of gently caress DA POLICE.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:20
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Slime posted:The common mooks are back to being demons like they were in Persona 1 and 2, the protagonists are still in high school but basically operate under the principle of gently caress DA POLICE.  I suddenly need a PS5. This sounds like the series has finally returned to being something I'd dig.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:21
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StrixNebulosa posted:
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Apr 3, 2017 14:45
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Oxxidation posted:Ra-hee-ho-wa now. This got a chuckle outta me
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Apr 3, 2017 15:09
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