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fridge corn
Apr 2, 2003

NO MERCY, ONLY PAIN :black101:
FF12 is one on my favourite FFs

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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Playing Theathrythm for over 200 hours means that there's at least a few tracks from every FF that I can remember now at least. II is maybe the most forgettable outside of the Town/Wild Rose theme, but I think outside of Big Bridge my least favourite of the stuff I've played more than once is V - the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head are Four Hearts and Home Sweet Home.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

^ exdeath fight theme is sick, imo

Tae posted:

FF12 was ahead of its time of making GBS threads up its pace for story when the world opens up.

ff6 did that way earlier

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Brother Entropy posted:

^ exdeath fight theme is sick, imo


ff6 did that way earlier

Seriously? I thought FF6 had great pacing in the World of Ruin - bad guy won and took over, and now you have to go around collecting your party again, oh and by the way let's take this opportunity to explore the backstory/history of every character as you go.

I mean once the bad guy wins and takes over, what else can you really do in terms of story aside from "let's get the gang together, we gotta stop this poo poo."

Honestly the reason the final act of FFXV fell so flat for me was because you went straight from "oh poo poo the bad guys won" to the final confrontation with very little in between. Would have been great if the rest of the party was scattered throughout the world after the time jump, forcing you to travel around and find them while also learning/seeing how bad the world is now.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Kelp Me! posted:

Seriously? I thought FF6 had great pacing in the World of Ruin - bad guy won and took over, and now you have to go around collecting your party again, oh and by the way let's take this opportunity to explore the backstory/history of every character as you go.

I mean once the bad guy wins and takes over, what else can you really do in terms of story aside from "let's get the gang together, we gotta stop this poo poo."

Honestly the reason the final act of FFXV fell so flat for me was because you went straight from "oh poo poo the bad guys won" to the final confrontation with very little in between. Would have been great if the rest of the party was scattered throughout the world after the time jump, forcing you to travel around and find them while also learning/seeing how bad the world is now.

I think it's pretty clear that the original intention of the WoR was exactly that but weeeeeelp games gotta ship

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


ImpAtom posted:

I think it's pretty clear that the original intention of the WoR was exactly that but weeeeeelp games gotta ship

:agreed: and it's a drat shame

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

You know I kind of think the Gladio DLC should have been rewritten to take place during the WoR.

It still wouldn't have fixed everything and you still would have his awkward moment where he just fucks off for a chapter earlier go unexplained, but it would have been a more interesting part of the game to expand upon IMO.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3

ImpAtom posted:

I think it's pretty clear that the original intention of the WoR was exactly that but weeeeeelp games gotta ship

Congratulations ImpAtom, they're going to fix that a year from now. Please look forward to it, and did you like it?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Kelp Me! posted:

:agreed: and it's a drat shame

I agree, I also wish FFXV didn't ship. Then we could just argue about it baselessly forever, which I personally prefer over having to play a game I will not like before I can have an opinion on it. I already did that once, and I'm not getting those 80 hours I spent being Shaun's Mom back.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

So what are the various differences between all the versions of FF2 out there?

Dross
Sep 26, 2006

Every night he puts his hot dogs in the trees so the pigeons can't get them.

Alxprit posted:

So what are the various differences between all the versions of FF2 out there?

Some of them are bad, broken, and unintuitive, and others are bad, broken, unintuitive, and slightly more pretty.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Gologle posted:

Congratulations ImpAtom, they're going to fix that a year from now. Please look forward to it, and did you like it?


Cleretic posted:

I agree, I also wish FFXV didn't ship. Then we could just argue about it baselessly forever, which I personally prefer over having to play a game I will not like before I can have an opinion on it. I already did that once, and I'm not getting those 80 hours I spent being Shaun's Mom back.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

Cleretic posted:

before I can have an opinion on it

Cleretic posted:

I will not like

🤔

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

Alxprit posted:

So what are the various differences between all the versions of FF2 out there?

They get increasingly easier because they ease up the leveling requirements a ton, to the point where you can handle the game relatively easily even if you don't know the ways to break the game. They also updated the inventory system, which is great because in the original you had like twenty slots, half of which are taken up by irremovable key items. And of course the usual bonus content, like the GBA's post-game dungeon and the PSP adding password dungeons to give you powerful poo poo early.

The problem is they didn't really fix any of the game's other problems (horrible dungeon design with dumb-rear end monster closets, explaining how exactly to level certain stats like agility, the fourth character being essentially useless after Minwu) so it's still kind of a slog even if you can breeze through it. It's really only enjoyable in that FF8 "Let's break this game in half ten-times over" way, except without a decent card game attached and you have to have a rough understanding of the basic mechanics to do so (i.e. agility/evade is god stat, Osmose trivializes everything). The characters are flat as hell and the story's only interesting in how god drat bleak it is, so all it really has going for it is a decent-yet-underdeveloped villain and said broken gameplay.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal

Alxprit posted:

So what are the various differences between all the versions of FF2 out there?

NES version has an easily exploitable way to power level early on, but had all the issues of being an NES game. The GBA version fixes that, but also fixes a host of issues like losing stats if you didn't "use them enough." Also, the Soul of Rebirth addition is really good. The PSP version just tightens up the graphics some more, and maybe adds another extra boss (I haven't played it).

If you can, you could play the GBA version on emulator pretty easily and use a fast forward button to help power up and get gil.

edit: I will say even with all the bells and whistles the GBA version adds, you still can't make the worst FF game of the series a great game.

seiferguy fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 4, 2017

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream


Cleretic has issues with any game who's gameplay is so hectically paced to be faster than setting things from a window with very little pressing you to do so quickly and that has kind of colored their bad bad posting about...most games, but FFXV is particular.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Thanks for the input. I had just heard so much about FF2 but I really wanted to make my own opinion on it, but do so in the simplest way possible. I'll go for GBA then, most likely.

Keep in mind I'm a pretty big fan of SaGa games so I probably won't have too much of an issue with grinding.

hit button
Mar 18, 2012


I played the FF Origins version on the PS1 which was also fine.

You can completely break FF2 if you do a ton of tedious grinding, but if you don't try to abuse the mechanics too badly then its actually fairly hard. Which option you go for is up to you.

It is definitely the worst FF game, but it still has its charms.

Help Im Alive
Nov 8, 2009

The Emperor seems ok if Dissidia is anything to go by

Die Sexmonster!
Nov 30, 2005

Cleretic posted:

I agree, I also wish FFXV didn't ship

The gently caress is wrong with you?

Game needed another year in the oven, but it was a perfectly fine entry into this flawed franchise. No one's arguing Act 3 was well-paced, but it's got one of the best endings in all of Final Fantasy.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

fridge corn posted:

FF12 is one on my favourite FFs

... to talk poo poo about :smug:

Honestly, I just didn't like it. I didn't like anything about it at all. And it's not like I wanted to dislike it--hell, I bought the steelbook. But it was just a neverending stream of disappointment and disengagement.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Any positive thoughts about FF12 I had was gone when I actually started playing FF14 because I just wanted more active combat and Dragon Age Origins did the whole AI poo poo way better.

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.
I think ff12 is ok. I prefer it to every pre-playstation era FF except 6 and also 9. That said, it has by far my least favorite plot. Not because it's bad but because they did such a good job getting me invested in it right up until I hit Archaedes and after that everything went to horrible tepid pointless poo poo. The level of disappointment 12 hit me with would not be topped until Destiny.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Failboattootoot posted:

I think ff12 is ok. I prefer it to every pre-playstation era FF except 6 and also 9. That said, it has by far my least favorite plot. Not because it's bad but because they did such a good job getting me invested in it right up until I hit Archaedes and after that everything went to horrible tepid pointless poo poo. The level of disappointment 12 hit me with would not be topped until Destiny.

Why the gently caress did you think Destiny would be good lmao

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

corn in the bible posted:

Why the gently caress did you think Destiny would be good lmao

I played the demo and my sense at the time was, "This is pretty great for low level gameplay in an mmo. As long as they do something about the bullet spongey enemies and make loot a bit easier to come by they should be golden." And then they didn't do either of those things and also hosed up a bunch of other basic rear end mmo poo poo that it is shameful to get wrong. Joke was on me I guess.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

Dross posted:

Some of them are bad, broken, and unintuitive, and others are bad, broken, unintuitive, and slightly more pretty.

ff2 gba is good

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
I wish Noctis was never born!

Also Vaan but I don't think anyone would argue against that one.

some bust on that guy
Jan 21, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.
FF15 is like FF12 but somehow made good.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Die Sexmonster! posted:

The gently caress is wrong with you?

Game needed another year in the oven, but it was a perfectly fine entry into this flawed franchise. No one's arguing Act 3 was well-paced, but it's got one of the best endings in all of Final Fantasy.

In short, I haven't played the game nor have any desire to thanks to a few choices it made in both development and writing. I think it's worthwhile and interesting talking to talk about these problems, however, which is difficult and makes people pretty mad when I voice opinions without having played the game.

And, as I learned with other games, those goalposts become 'you have to get to X point before it gets good' if you do play it. That lasts all the way until you complete it, but at that point things change completely to 'why did you play so much of a game you hated'. So if you're like me and want to discuss a game you have no intention to play, the best point to do so is those few months before release where you have enough to formulate a stance but nobody can tell you to play it because you can't.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Cleretic posted:

In short, I haven't played the game nor have any desire to thanks to a few choices it made in both development and writing. I think it's worthwhile and interesting talking to talk about these problems, however, which is difficult and makes people pretty mad when I voice opinions without having played the game.

And, as I learned with other games, those goalposts become 'you have to get to X point before it gets good' if you do play it. That lasts all the way until you complete it, but at that point things change completely to 'why did you play so much of a game you hated'. So if you're like me and want to discuss a game you have no intention to play, the best point to do so is those few months before release where you have enough to formulate a stance but nobody can tell you to play it because you can't.

lmao gently caress off with your supercilious bullshit

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Cleretic posted:

I voice opinions without having played the game.

lol

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Cleretic posted:

I voice opinions without having played the game.

lol

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

Cleretic posted:

In short, I haven't played the game nor have any desire to thanks to a few choices it made in both development and writing. I think it's worthwhile and interesting talking to talk about these problems, however, which is difficult and makes people pretty mad when I voice opinions without having played the game.

And, as I learned with other games, those goalposts become 'you have to get to X point before it gets good' if you do play it. That lasts all the way until you complete it, but at that point things change completely to 'why did you play so much of a game you hated'. So if you're like me and want to discuss a game you have no intention to play, the best point to do so is those few months before release where you have enough to formulate a stance but nobody can tell you to play it because you can't.

Your argument was "I wish FF15 did not ship", which is loving asinine for a variety of reasons. It would have been a serious monetary blow to SE after all they invested into it, even SE's weaker games have some merits and at least have some variety to them, FF15 was a good excuse to release a lot of supplementary material, it briefly made SE relevant again in the gaming world by showing the Final Fantasy series still lives, and finally, a lot of people actually enjoy the game.

Like, I just argued that FF2 is a very flawed and bad game, but it also showed Square was willing to reinvent themselves for each game, it showed a big step forward towards story-wise in having distinct characters and a more cohesive narrative, it introduced core FF elements like Chocobos and Cids, and Square did learn from a lot of the mistakes it made on that game and improved from them, both in the main FF series and in the SaGa games inspired by FF2's gameplay. No way I'd argue they should've never shipped it, especially since some people do like it (and hell, I kinda do myself).

I haven't played FF15 yet due to going PC this gen, but lots of people are enjoying it and despite my constant shittalking during its fifty-year development time I do look forward to taking selfies of noodle cups while running over chcocobos in my hovercar one day because I love this big dumb idiot series for insane people and all the terrible games within.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3

Cleretic posted:

I voice opinions without having played the game.

lol

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
I voice opinions without playing games but they're usually outrageous to the point of self parody

For instance, FF3 is good

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Mega64 posted:

Your argument was "I wish FF15 did not ship", which is loving asinine for a variety of reasons. It would have been a serious monetary blow to SE after all they invested into it, even SE's weaker games have some merits and at least have some variety to them, FF15 was a good excuse to release a lot of supplementary material, it briefly made SE relevant again in the gaming world by showing the Final Fantasy series still lives, and finally, a lot of people actually enjoy the game.

Like, I just argued that FF2 is a very flawed and bad game, but it also showed Square was willing to reinvent themselves for each game, it showed a big step forward towards story-wise in having distinct characters and a more cohesive narrative, it introduced core FF elements like Chocobos and Cids, and Square did learn from a lot of the mistakes it made on that game and improved from them, both in the main FF series and in the SaGa games inspired by FF2's gameplay. No way I'd argue they should've never shipped it, especially since some people do like it (and hell, I kinda do myself).

I haven't played FF15 yet due to going PC this gen, but lots of people are enjoying it and despite my constant shittalking during its fifty-year development time I do look forward to taking selfies of noodle cups while running over chcocobos in my hovercar one day because I love this big dumb idiot series for insane people and all the terrible games within.

Oh, I'm not saying this seriously, I assure you. I do not maliciously think that it would be better if FFXV did not exist, even if I personally don't like that it does. I'm just saying that from my perspective it would be more enjoyable if it existed in this fantastical perpetual state of 'almost released' where full opinions and argumets can be had about it but that barrier of 'you have to play the game' cannot exist.

And hell, once it does come out on PC I'll probably give it a shot and find things I like about it that I didn't expect. I don't like being this cynical about Final Fantasy because I even find the bad ones fun, but at this point when I don't presently intend to buy it I'd love to be able to talk about something like how it's pretty poo poo that the entire core party is white males without the 'well actually' that somebody is composing literally right now.

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012

Cleretic posted:

I'd love to be able to talk about something like how it's pretty poo poo that the entire core party is white males

what.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
He's doing the forum version of holding his breath until mommy gets him attention

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

What, you didn't notice? I'm phoneposting so I can't write anything too long, but FF has been historically pretty good for female representation, as far back as the first time they had actual characters in the party at all they've had some pretty solid first-stringer female characters. Seriously, go back, realize that even FFII had Maria and Leila.

That is, until XV, when your unchangeable party is four dudes except for a short period when a good female character is swapped in as a guest. This is a time that's even more conscious about that sort of thing, yet FF went backwards.

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Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


The entire core party is asian males

in fact, most of the characters in the game are asian, for some unexplained reason. Weird. :confused:

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