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I always pre-cook my shrimp, cause they're much easier to shell when they're at least lightly cooked. So boil em, quick dunk in cold water, pull shells and set aside at room temp while cooking the rest of the gumbo. Then they go in at the very end, when there's just enough heat left to firm the shrimps up. Living up here I don't get the nice big shrimps very much, and they've always been frozen. That makes shells a bit of a PITA unless they're cooked. Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:About how long should I let the stock slow-cook for before I take it off the heat? I was thinking about 3 hours or so, but I could go longer. also most seafood stocks you keep at a true simmer. really you only need 30 minutes to an hour, depending on what your seafood is. (if you have whole fish and use the heads for stock, Joy says only 15 minutes because they can produce a bitter flavor if they cook too long.) Klyith fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 05:30
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In a stock, it's recommended that vegetable matter to be cooked no longer than about 90 minutes. More than that and you will see the stock get murky in both appearance (which is fixable) as well as flavor (less so). The things basically just start to degrade and you'll end up with a pot of muck; all the fresh and aromatic flavors we want are extracted within an hour provided you diced it all well enough beforehand. Fish and seafood need similarly short stock times- only heavy beef bones need the all-day dinner to extract their goodness.
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Mar 30, 2017 14:23
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holttho posted:In a stock, it's recommended that vegetable matter to be cooked no longer than about 90 minutes. More than that and you will see the stock get murky in both appearance (which is fixable) as well as flavor (less so). The things basically just start to degrade and you'll end up with a pot of muck; all the fresh and aromatic flavors we want are extracted within an hour provided you diced it all well enough beforehand. Reeeeally wish I had read this last night while the stock was actually being made. I think I cooked it for like two and a half hours or something like that. My bell peppers were basically mush by the time it was done.  So is my gumbo still fixable or did I just waste $40 worth of ingredients?
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Mar 30, 2017 16:22
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:Reeeeally wish I had read this last night while the stock was actually being made. I think I cooked it for like two and a half hours or something like that. My bell peppers were basically mush by the time it was done. Does it taste good? Overcooking vegetables in a gumbo is hardly the worst mistake you can make. Toss in some fresh green onion for some texture if you want but as long as the shrimp arent overcooked and the rest of it tastes good it'll be fine.
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Mar 30, 2017 16:28
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:Reeeeally wish I had read this last night while the stock was actually being made. I think I cooked it for like two and a half hours or something like that. My bell peppers were basically mush by the time it was done. Well considering it sounds like you used the meat from shrimp and crawfish for your stock instead of just the shells, you definitely wasted $40 in good seafood.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:45
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Crusty Nutsack posted:Well considering it sounds like you used the meat from shrimp and crawfish for your stock instead of just the shells, you definitely wasted $40 in good seafood. I think he just cooked the vegetables that long, not the shrimp... I hope... 
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Mar 30, 2017 21:39
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Crusty Nutsack posted:Well considering it sounds like you used the meat from shrimp and crawfish for your stock instead of just the shells, you definitely wasted $40 in good seafood. No no, I used whole crawfish and whole shrimp, shells of both included. That Works posted:I think he just cooked the vegetables that long, not the shrimp... I hope... I cooked everything for that long. But the shrimp going in the gumbo is different from the shrimp I used to make the stock. So I've still got 6 lbs of frozen shrimp that haven't been ruined yet.
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Mar 30, 2017 22:36
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Next time make the stock with shells, you're wasting shrimp and crawfish dude!
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Mar 31, 2017 00:19
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Gonna pour one out tonight for all that seafood you destroyed. Next time, buy raw shell on shrimp, peel them, put the part you eat back in the fridge, and then just the shells in the stockpot.
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Mar 31, 2017 00:43
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Next time make the stock with shells, you're wasting shrimp and crawfish dude! I'm not wasting it. I'm giving it to the homeless to eat out of the trash. 
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Mar 31, 2017 01:25
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You made the most expensive stock you will ever eat, so luxurious
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Mar 31, 2017 01:34
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My roux is about the color of a Hershey bar. Is that dark enough?
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Mar 31, 2017 02:40
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Well after 7 hours of work, my kitchen is destroyed, I have squishy burn wounds on my hand and arm that are full of puss, and all in all my latest gumbo attempt ended in failure.  It seemed to be going good until I added the trinity. I think maybe I added the vegetables too soon after taking the roux off the heat. I put them in right after the roux came off the stove. The whole mixture basically tasted burned after that, and no amount of salt could fix it. A real shame. I spent 2 hours making that roux, and probably put together one of the best stocks I've ever done. $60 worth of ingredients I'll never get back. How long should I wait after taking my roux off the heat before adding the vegetables? I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 07:34
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oh geez  If your roux produced a burnt flavor, the most likely explanation is that it didn't keep moving enough. A cajun roux is touchy and needs constant motion, because there isn't the natural convection that water-based cooking has. I would say that a flat whisk is a required tool for the job. That allows you to keep it moving, and scrape* along the bottom and edges of the pot to prevent overcooking. Maybe the real cajuns who make roux once a week can make do with a wooden spoon, but I would never attempt a dark hot roux without the flat whisk. Also required: a heavy gauge pot to do roux in. Cast iron is best, but I don't have any cast iron myself and a heavy stainless steel with a full spreader disk base works fine. Again, if all I had was thin steel saucepans I would not attempt a cajun roux. Adding the vegetables to the roux is supposed to be the thing that stops it from cooking. This seems to be the traditional thing to do, but the easier alternative is how my mom learned to do it: instead add hot stock to the roux, carefully, a spoonful at a time. This is easiest if you have two people (one to spoon stock in and one to stir / keep it controlled). This is much faster at bringing the roux temperature down and stopping it. It's a bit more violent and you have to saute the veg separately, but it 100% halts the roux. I think the method of sauteing veg in the roux may still allow the flour to burn if you're not paying enough attention. *this can be important because a roux can have weird phase changes where it goes from liquid to sort of clumpy and back as it cooks. I have no idea why it does, and sometimes it doesn't happen. I think it's related to how how you're cooking it. Anyways the flat whisk is crucial when it goes clumpy.
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Mar 31, 2017 13:17
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Klyith posted:oh geez Yeah this is good. Phil and I had a back and forth before on roux. He likes the traditional method of making the roux then throwing the trinity in and having that stop the cooking and then wilting down your vegetables that way. I have recently come around to doing it this way and I think the reason it works for me now is because I have better pots and pans than before when I was cooking. Now I just do it all in 7qt enameled cast iron dutch oven. In the past when I didn't have good pots, I'd wilt down my trinity and a little bit of minced sausage (reserving the rest for later) in butter and add in garlic and seasoning towards the end of that and then reserve off of heat. If I was using chicken, I'd brown the chicken 1st, remove, then cook down the onions in the fond left from the chicken and add in the rest of the trinity to that. In a separate cast iron skillet I'd make my roux and then add in 1-2 cups of stock to stop the roux at the color I wanted. That would go through the whole weird loose clumps then back to a thickened even textured paste and I'd dump all of that into my vegetables that were already softened up in the other pot. That would all get brought up to a boil along with some more added stock. It's a more bulletproof way to avoid loving up the roux, but once you get the hang of doing it the other way, its no longer necessary. I couldn't really say that there was a strong difference between one method or another on the final product. The traditional way uses less pots and pans in the end and is a little less complex but yeah for someone brand new you might gently caress up your roux along with all the vegetables you just dumped into it. Again, in my opinion, the best determinant of making a decent gumbo vs a great gumbo is going to lie with the quality of the stock you use. Don't have any homemade and want to use canned stock? It'll be fine, and can be real good, but it will never be quite as good as what you can get with a homemade stock. I still do them either way depending on what I have available and how much I just want a pot of damned gumbo going in the kitchen on a random day.
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Mar 31, 2017 14:00
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holy smokes just use your oven for the roux and never worry about it again. If you have one of those IR ceramic tops it's basically mandatory so the full blast toggling doesn't burn it. Gitmo, please never waste crawfish/shrimp like that again for your stock. I'm envious you wasted so little money, that would have been easily 140$ here.
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Mar 31, 2017 15:55
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:Well after 7 hours of work, my kitchen is destroyed, I have squishy burn wounds on my hand and arm that are full of puss, and all in all my latest gumbo attempt ended in failure. Bruh I'm sorry...it does sound like you burned the roux. As you now know, once you get to that point nothing will save it. Though sometimes what seems like a burned taste will ease up after a while. What color did you end up with before adding vegetables? A Hershey bar is not burned, though you may have had some burned flakes on the bottom. Like Klyith said, you need to keep it all moving and off the bottom. I use a regular (long-handled) whisk to get the flour mixed in, but I have enameled cast iron pots so I'm not worried about anything. Though once the roux comes together I use a flat-edged wooden spoon or a paddle, though a heavy rubber spatula would also work as well as the flat whisk Klyith says. I scrape the roux off the bottom, mix in a figure-8 motion, go around the edges, do a little zigzag across everything and repeat. I do this at a high heat and it takes about 30 minutes. If you cooked the roux for 2 hours before adding anything there is no way you didn't burn the poo poo out of it unless it was at a low heat. Or you could just cook it in the oven, it's usually just as good and much less work. Don't be discouraged. Everyone has burned a roux and ruined the gumbo at least once. Be happy you didn't throw in a bunch of crabmeat and fresh oysters! I would recommend you stick to chicken and andouille until you get the hang of roux-making. Also, once you figure out how to make a roux in 30-40 minutes, it's not quite as deadly to just start over if you gently caress up. Remember--adding the stock is the point of no return (unless you have more stock). Oil and flour are cheap.
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Mar 31, 2017 15:57
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Tough luck on that, but don't be discouraged. 'Never be afraid to fail a dish' is what most professionals/teachers will tell you; it's the only way to push your boundaries. As far as the roux, I would echo everything everyone has just said, but doubly so on cast iron. A dark roux will burn at the drop of a hat, but a nice thick piece of cast iron between it and the flame will give you a modicum of insurance. Klyith posted:*this can be important because a roux can have weird phase changes where it goes from liquid to sort of clumpy and back as it cooks. I have no idea why it does, and sometimes it doesn't happen. I think it's related to how how you're cooking it. Anyways the flat whisk is crucial when it goes clumpy. When a roux is at the proper proportions of fat to flour, it is a non-Newtonian fluid. Too much fat and it is just a fat with flour suspension, but when you hit it just right, it will become a shear-thickening liquid. Any motion through it (causing shear force) will cause it to firm up. Shear thickening liquids are notorious for resisting convection currents; hence burning. But, you can just simply overpower it with a good whisking and force it to mix. Silly Putty is an example of one as well: it was soft and goopy at low speeds, but if you ever hit it hard against the table, it would shatter.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:48
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What dat fella say?
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Apr 1, 2017 02:36
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I've learned(guess how, roux burning buddy!) to finish your roux a bit lighter than what you want it at. Once you add the trinity in, the roux will quickly darken a few shades, and if it was close to burning before, it'll almost definitely go over the edge during that time. Incidentally, I made a week's worth of gumbo for my work lunches this past Monday, using the recipe on the font page. Nothing special, but I did use a home made ham/chicken stock for the stock, which added the slightest hint of salty smokiness and was actually quite good. But what I did was use my large heavy bottom stainless stock pot, make the roux, and once I got the flower in there and mixed, turned up the heat to medium high and stir constantly at a medium speed till it got to almost a golden brown. Once it got there, I turned the heat off and continued to stir for another 5 minutes till the bubbles subsided almost completely, then turned the heat back on low and added the veggies. What followed was the roux very quickly darkening to almost a mud brown, and giving off notes of popcorn, and/or just-toasted-enough wheat bread. It happened so fast I barely had time to properly sweat the onions, but in the end it didn't matter. The gumbo turned out dark, thick, velvety, and delicious.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:37
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Are there any opinions here regarding the use of canned/jarred roux or Zatarain's Gumbo Base for a gumbo? I have no doubt real roux will win every time, but are these substitutes good enough or am I really better off just staying away? Adding to that, are there any particular brands of jarred roux that are well regarded?
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Apr 4, 2017 01:49
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Rand Ecliptic posted:Are there any opinions here regarding the use of canned/jarred roux or Zatarain's Gumbo Base for a gumbo? I have no doubt real roux will win every time, but are these substitutes good enough or am I really better off just staying away? I've used the jarred roux by Richard's before. It works but is not the same as regular roux, a little...muskier, I thought, slightly more bitter. Also a thinner gumbo when all said and done. Though you will get a darker gumbo out of it for sure. Never tried the gumbo base, what exactly is that? Like a bouillon for gumbo?
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Apr 4, 2017 02:37
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I've used the jarred roux by Richard's before. It works but is not the same as regular roux, a little...muskier, I thought, slightly more bitter. Also a thinner gumbo when all said and done. Though you will get a darker gumbo out of it for sure. Never tried the gumbo base, what exactly is that? Like a bouillon for gumbo? The "gumbo bases" I've seen have essentially been bags of frozen gumbo sans the meat and possibly other vegetables. I've never tried them, but I've seen gumbo base, etouffee base, and so on at the grocery.
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Apr 4, 2017 04:30
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Can I just randomly complain about American labelling? I bought something called "Creole seasoning" and "Cajun seasoning" in NOLA. What I expected was a mix of spices to use in dishes. What I got was a glorified salt laced with trace amounts of spices. An American friend then explained to me that what I had bought was a "seasoning salt" not seasoning. Why the he'll would you not call it a "seasoning salt" on the package then? Now I have two mostly useless packs of salt sitting there that I can at best use on meat or fish and have to mix my own seasoning anyway. Could've saved those 10$ and gone homemade right away...
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Apr 4, 2017 08:09
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Rand Ecliptic posted:Are there any opinions here regarding the use of canned/jarred roux or Zatarain's Gumbo Base for a gumbo? I have no doubt real roux will win every time, but are these substitutes good enough or am I really better off just staying away? I have used doguet's jar roux a couple times before and it tasted alright. It's a good option if you're looking to make gumbo or something without burning the crap out of yourself or if you've already ruined a batch by burning or melting another 'high temp' spoon into it. It could be a little darker.
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Apr 4, 2017 08:13
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Hopper posted:Can I just randomly complain about American labelling? I bought something called "Creole seasoning" and "Cajun seasoning" in NOLA. Yeah, sorry man. Most of those commercial creole seasonings are majorly salty.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:54
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Hopper posted:Can I just randomly complain about American labelling? I bought something called "Creole seasoning" and "Cajun seasoning" in NOLA. Blame American consumerism. Those are still at least decent to throw on some meat in a hurry. Also, funnily enough, they're not bad on a buttery whitebread toast either.
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Apr 4, 2017 14:15
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That Works posted:Blame American consumerism. And french fries. The only thing you can really do is check the ingredients to see where salt is. It's a less than ideal situation.
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Apr 4, 2017 14:51
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Welcome to america, the majority of the stuff sold in our grocery stores is for people who can't cook. (Honestly I'd also say the same thing about the pre-made roux Rand Ecliptic asked about. A cajun roux isn't that difficult, it's just flour + oil + attention. But it's possible to screw up, and it burns like a motherfucker, so it's not great for inexperienced cooks. It's also one of those things that's way easier to learn by demonstration.) Ben Nevis posted:And french fries. Also really good on popcorn, if you have a air popper or something else that produces unsalted popcorn.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:26
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I always looked at pre-made roux as a thing for someone who doesn't cook much and who hasn't cooked cajun food before. Probably ideal for a themed potluck or something if you're not confident with your cooking technique. Of course if you're hesitant to make a pot of gumbo or something and buying that gets you over the edge to start making it, then that's a good thing. Other than a torched roux, even mediocre-made gumbo can be real good.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:43
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isn't a premade roux just browned flour?
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Apr 4, 2017 17:45
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:isn't a premade roux just browned flour? Yeah, browned in oil. The ones I've seen are just a jar of brown paste. I've never used one but my mom tried one once or twice and said it came out alright.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:50
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:isn't a premade roux just browned flour? I guess but something about them you can really taste is different. Maybe the oil, or something in there to preserve it. I don't know. Generally it's not terrible and I bet some people wouldn't even notice a difference.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:50
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I dunno, a roux isn't magic. I tried one and burnt it (started with too strong heat), chucked it and made second one that came out dark blonde and tasted fine so I used that. Next time I went a bit further and got chocolate. It's really not that hard and costs nothing but time if you burn it (and realize early enough). Now a broth I can see why people use bought, it takes ages to make...
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Apr 4, 2017 21:39
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Hopper posted:I dunno, a roux isn't magic. I tried one and burnt it (started with too strong heat), chucked it and made second one that came out dark blonde and tasted fine so I used that. Next time I went a bit further and got chocolate. Sadly some people are so incredibly lazy when it comes to cooking. Hell, people buy pre-made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches....  Also, if you're not using a pressure cooker for stock, you're missing out!
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Apr 4, 2017 23:00
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I consider broth way less annoying than roux. For broth you just need to cut some stuff into a couple big pieces, toss them in a pot with water, and leave it on med-low for a few hours. Roux is constant stirring for 30-45 minutes, with a relatively narrow margin for failure if going for a dark chocolate roux.
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Apr 5, 2017 01:55
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Hey guys, I thought I'd share this Creole Chicken and Rice thing I made that is super easy turned out crazy good. I adapted it from something called "Puerto Rican Chicken and Rice" that was also really good and I have no idea if it's authentic or whatever but who cares. 2-3 lb bone-in skin-on chicken parts (thighs are best) all-purpose seasoning 2 t. cajun or creole seasoning (it's important to use a good one or make your own, it should be mostly red) 1 big yellow onion, diced 5 stalks celery, diced 1 big green pepper, diced 5 big cloves garlic, minced 8 oz jowl bacon, diced (regular bacon would be good too) 1 c. basmati rice 2 c. chicken stock 14.5 oz can red beans, drained 2 bay leaves 3-4 sprigs fresh thyme 1 t. Worcestershire 1 t. Asian fish sauce Louisiana style hot sauce cocktail bitters (I used Peychauds) neutral oil, salt, fresh cracked pepper parsley and/or scallions Edit: It should be noted that I measured nothing and these amounts are my best guess, so if you make this I wouldn't worry too much about getting it exactly right. Season the chicken with the all-purpose seasoning and brown it in oil over med-high heat, skin side first, then the other side. Set aside.  Add the bacon and cook until the fat renders and it's somewhat crispy. Reduce heat to medium and add the onion, celery, and bell pepper, and cook until soft, scraping up the brown bits in the pan. Add the garlic and cook for a few minutes, then the cajun seasoning and cook for a minute.   Return the chicken and any accumulated juiced to the pan and add the rice, beans, chicken stock, bay leaves, thyme, Worcestershire, fish sauce, a few splashes hot sauce to taste, a few splashes bitters, salt and pepper. Bring to a boil then turn down to low and cook covered 15 minutes, without stirring, then uncovered 25 more, or until all the liquid has been absorbed, again without stirring.   Garnish with the parsley and/or scallions and serve with hot sauce and a cold, crisp lager. 
Human Tornada fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 02:11
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Since we got on the topic of "cajun seasoning", I was reminded that I am often looking for a seasoning to things, preferably without much/salt for the reasons specified earlier and not too spicy. I've tried McKormick's Cajun and Bayou Cajun (neither bad, but they both taste fairly generic) as well as the Product Tony Chachere's Creole seasoning in the OP of this thread (good, but too salty). My inclination has been to just mix my own, since I can control the salt and spice level, but I'm not really sure where to start. Searching for cajun spice recipe brings billion results and I'm not familiar enough with various spices to really be able to guess what the mix will taste like without mixing up a batch.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:02
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For the record, this is what my roux looked like just before I added the veggies. Note that the smoke in the photo makes the roux appear lighter than it actually is, so picture this color but slightly darker. Is this too dark?
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Apr 6, 2017 02:08
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poo poo is burnt. Also you shouldn't have roux clinging to the pot like that. It's definitely burnt.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:15
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