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Tankakern posted:this isn't 1998 anymore, what the hell doesn't have linux drivers nowadays half arsed barely working drivers or 100% feature complete stable drivers ?
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Apr 5, 2017 19:13
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BobHoward posted:lol at everyone trying to own eschaton who assumed he wants linux to work like windows and now we can see the dogma bear fruit, as the only big pain point with new computers is getting your nvidia-drivers glue shitfest to compile on a 4.10 kernel
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Apr 5, 2017 19:21
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jre posted:half arsed barely working drivers or 100% feature complete stable drivers ? fud fest
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Apr 5, 2017 19:21
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does linux support wifi yet?
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Apr 5, 2017 19:24
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BobHoward posted:lol at everyone trying to own eschaton who assumed he wants linux to work like windows it's been a policy that has allowed linux to dominate every market sector where mmu-having general purpose processors are used with the sole exception of desktops, i'd say it's working pretty well for them also please point me to another operating system that supports third-party GPU drivers from a previous major release with no involvement from the OEM
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Apr 5, 2017 19:49
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in other news https://lwn.net/Articles/719037/ about time. rip in piss mir and unity (ubuntu is still trash but at least it's turning into trash that runs a mostly standard infrastructure stack)
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Apr 5, 2017 19:52
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Six years after making Unity the default user interface on Ubuntu desktops, Canonical is giving up on the project and will switch the default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME next year. Canonical is also ending development of Ubuntu software for phones and tablets, spelling doom for the goal of creating a converged experience with phones acting as desktops when docked with the right equipment.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:29
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what a long and expensive failed experiment.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:33
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Sapozhnik posted:about time. rip in piss mir and unity they join their brothers upstart and snap or snappy or whatever their nih flatpak competitor is called
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Apr 5, 2017 20:50
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The_Franz posted:they join their brothers upstart and snap or snappy or whatever their nih flatpak competitor is called wait they killed snappy ?
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Apr 5, 2017 20:50
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jre posted:wait they killed snappy ? not yet but hopefully soon
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Apr 5, 2017 20:58
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jre posted:half arsed barely working drivers or 100% feature complete stable drivers ? The drivers in the mainline kernel are generally far cleaner and less likely to poo poo themselves then if provided by the vendor. Mainly because cheap vendor drivers are notoriously poo poo and offer way to much garbage.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:02
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Tankakern posted:so much wrongposting lol if you think I'm specifically describing Windows here I'm describing every operating system that has any sort of professional design applied in that way Windows was relatively late to the game, but at least they're trying to get there Linux still has a bunch of idiot nerdsplaining about how much binary drivers hate are freedoms and any measure against them is justified
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Apr 5, 2017 23:09
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BobHoward posted:lol at everyone trying to own eschaton who assumed he wants linux to work like windows pain? sure, definitely, for desktop users. it's a pain in the balls to deal with nvidia. failure? I'm not seeing it. linux is wildly successful. substantially all drivers live in-tree. releases are frequent and easy. open source drivers are the norm even for enterprise hardware.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:11
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eschaton posted:Linux still has a bunch of idiot nerdsplaining about how much binary drivers hate are freedoms and any measure against them is justified linux, to the extent that it is organized at all, is a multi-vendor consortium the big firms that really run the project have absolutely no interest in helping people maintain drivers out of tree, because that might allow a competitor to get a leg up without contributing back. the incentives don't line up. ibm and red hat and intel are not run by hippies concerned about your software freedoms. they just don't have any reason to help you maintain your binary drivers. it doesn't benefit them.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:12
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linux is what happens when you let self-hating libertarian turbonerds near a compiler gnu is what happens when you then give them a couple lawyers install windows, dehumanize yourself and face to a good operating system
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Apr 5, 2017 23:43
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ratbert90 posted:The drivers in the mainline kernel are generally far cleaner and less likely to poo poo themselves then if provided by the vendor. lol Walked past my colleague the other day who installed linux on his work laptop 'to be more productive' . Was curious why he wasn't using the two 24" monitors everyone has ? Every time he unplugs from the dock the laptop kernel panics. Stopped working after he did an update This is after he had no sound for a month because of driver issues.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:45
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Kazinsal posted:linux is what happens when you let self-hating libertarian turbonerds near a compiler no that's bsd
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Apr 6, 2017 01:56
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jre posted:lol I assume nvidia or amd graphics card.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:13
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Sapozhnik posted:not yet but hopefully soon hopefully LimeSDR will figure out something to use if they do
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Apr 6, 2017 02:14
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anyway i just loaded up a game in Steam on Windows 10 and then quit out and suddenly my monitor just stopped displaying anything other than one POST screen even after disconnecting both the monitor and the computer from power, then I spent the next 20 minutes frantically connecting various combinations of computers, displays, and display cables praying I hadn't blown up an expensive as poo poo display or an expensive as poo poo gpu and finally I got the display showing a picture again so i don't want to loving hear it about how gpu drivers on "real" operating systems are all pure and amazing
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Apr 6, 2017 03:34
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Sapozhnik posted:it's been a policy that has allowed linux to dominate every market sector where mmu-having general purpose processors are used with the sole exception of desktops, i'd say it's working pretty well for them what you say is the best kind of true (technically) it only works when there's relatively tight control over hardware and software distribution. android is the biggest (or at least highest volume) linux success story, and the reason this poo poo doesn't matter there is that almost nobody gets their anroid updates from anybody but their hardware oem and/or carrier. if they get updates at all, lol. this, however, is the yolotd thread, where we discuss conventional linux kernels and drivers and distributions targeted at mainstream pc hardware. the linux driver philosophy works for some types of pc hardware, but is a proven failure for others mysteriously having a bunch of turbonerds shriek things like BUY INFERIOR HARDWARE and BLAME NVIDIA has failed to get users interested in running linux, especially the kind that don't even want to know what the gently caress a "kernel" is or why they should care about how ~~free~~ their software is
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Apr 6, 2017 04:00
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I use fedora and ubuntu for all my day to day stuff. Hobbies, paying bills, scanning documents and video manipulation are preferable to do in Linux for me. I have not had hardware issues except when I used an older 16.04 instead of 16.04.2 on a computer with a months-old card. With 16.04.2, it worked flawlessly. I have a windows computer but it is relegated to blizzard and steam games and I rarely have the time to switch it on anymore for a quick dungeon or auction house check.
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Apr 6, 2017 05:00
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Sapozhnik posted:anyway i just loaded up a game in Steam on Windows 10 and then quit out and suddenly my monitor just stopped displaying anything other than one POST screen even after disconnecting both the monitor and the computer from power, then I spent the next 20 minutes frantically connecting various combinations of computers, displays, and display cables praying I hadn't blown up an expensive as poo poo display or an expensive as poo poo gpu and finally I got the display showing a picture again
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Apr 6, 2017 07:57
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jre posted:lol some of our work laptops have these same issues every loving time windows 10 updates, please don't pretend gpu drivers aren't a giant shitshow on every platform
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Apr 6, 2017 08:11
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Truga posted:some of our work laptops have these same issues every loving time windows 10 updates, please don't pretend gpu drivers aren't a giant shitshow on every platform
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Apr 6, 2017 09:06
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:pain? sure, definitely, for desktop users. it's a pain in the balls to deal with nvidia. i mean, we would have to get all serious and nuanced to get to a proper bottom of this, which would be out of place in this forum, but the discussion rather lept out of the desktop/laptop ambitions of the unix-clone linux, which has not been a success. servers sure, variants using the underpinnings with entirely/mostly non-unixy new userlands and controlled hardware, sure, to some extent as well. the ambition to become the workstation os for the average professional looked far more likely to succeed in the early years of last decade than it does now, and drivers have certainly been an ongoing issue rather suspect that no choices would have left both server and workstation/consumer markets truly open, so poison picking mostly
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Apr 6, 2017 09:15
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ratbert90 posted:The drivers in the mainline kernel are generally far cleaner and less likely to poo poo themselves then if provided by the vendor. ratbert90 posted:I assume nvidia or amd graphics card. the kernels drivers are so superior , oh you wanted your graphics card to work ? You shouldn't have chosen a laptop with one from the two biggest discrete graphics card manufacturers Lol
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Apr 6, 2017 12:20
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jre posted:the kernels drivers are so superior , oh you wanted your graphics card to work ? You shouldn't have chosen a laptop with one from the two biggest discrete graphics card manufacturers Yes, if only Nvidia had their drivers as part of the mainline kernel or something. JFC.
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Apr 6, 2017 16:11
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nvidia doesn't give a poo poo about making their driver work reliably on linux so it works like poo poo on linux. somehow this is the fault of linux. if they adapted their userland to talk to nouveau's kernel driver (and submit patches as necessary) then their poo poo would work and the kernel development community would be responsible for always presenting that stable abi that y'all like to stroke yourselves into a frenzy over. but they don't want to spend the engineering dollars on that, they just want to ship a lovely solution that crowbars their Windows driver into talking to the Linux kernel. and they don't even do a good job of that because they were by the sounds of things warned about this change to the kernel's dma subsystems well in advance.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:26
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AMD are at least trying but they have a similar mentality: "we want to put a kernel abstraction layer into Linux to make Linux look more like Windows and if you don't like that then gently caress you we're taking our ball and going home" https://lwn.net/Articles/708891/
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Apr 6, 2017 17:28
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Sapozhnik posted:nvidia doesn't give a poo poo about making their driver work reliably on linux so it works like poo poo on linux. somehow this is the fault of linux. they do care because they sell truckloads of quadros and teslas to big customers, but those customers are likely using rhel or centos which is still on kernel 3.10 so they don't need to be too concerned with bleeding-edge kernels Sapozhnik posted:AMD are at least trying but they have a similar mentality: "we want to put a kernel abstraction layer into Linux to make Linux look more like Windows and if you don't like that then gently caress you we're taking our ball and going home" to amd's credit, they are slowly refactoring it and trying to get it in shape for mainline
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Apr 6, 2017 17:42
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templeos would be the best gaming os in the world if nvidia, amd, valve, and game developers were not such ridiculous shitheads about it
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Apr 6, 2017 18:01
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:templeos would be the best gaming os in the world if nvidia, amd, valve, and game developers were not such ridiculous shitheads about it
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Apr 6, 2017 18:02
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so somehow this is Gods fault huh?!
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Apr 6, 2017 18:02
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i mean, we would have to get all serious and nuanced to get to a proper bottom of this, which would be out of place in this forum, but the discussion rather lept out of the desktop/laptop ambitions of the unix-clone linux, which has not been a success. servers sure, variants using the underpinnings with entirely/mostly non-unixy new userlands and controlled hardware, sure, to some extent as well. pc servers have totally uncontrolled hardware, just like your desktop. it used to be totally normal to get SCO and solaris drivers on the driver floppy that came with an expansion card, i poo poo you not. just random-rear end kernel drivers. maybe a readme if you were lucky. there nothing special about desktops vs enterprise that made a fixed kernel ABI a necessity. it was just as useful to end-users in the enterprise as it was on the desktop, but as a multi-vendor consortium, core linux maintainers were more concerned with their competitive position than offering some kind of seamless experience for dudes with driver floppies there's a reason we ended up here, and the reason is not user convenience or beardo ideology
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Apr 7, 2017 02:12
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Sapozhnik posted:AMD are at least trying but they have a similar mentality: "we want to put a kernel abstraction layer into Linux to make Linux look more like Windows and if you don't like that then gently caress you we're taking our ball and going home" What a world to live in if they eventually do clean it up and it gets into mainline, where people will recommend AMD cards because they "just work" in Linux.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:47
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Sapozhnik posted:AMD are at least trying but they have a similar mentality: "we want to put a kernel abstraction layer into Linux to make Linux look more like Windows and if you don't like that then gently caress you we're taking our ball and going home" a perfectly reasonable attitude on their part when the Linux clown show won’t provide a binary compatibility guarantee of their own
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Apr 7, 2017 05:22
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eschaton posted:a perfectly reasonable attitude on their part when the Linux clown show won’t provide a binary compatibility guarantee of their own incredibly funny xkcd comic punchline: and now we have 2 competing graphics abis
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Apr 7, 2017 05:56
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eschaton posted:a perfectly reasonable attitude on their part when the Linux clown show won’t provide a binary compatibility guarantee of their own it's a source compatibility layer. amd has abandoned dumbass binary blobs in the kernel tree. they are making a real effort to get their kernel drivers into the mainline kernel. amd still publishes a proprietary driver, but their end-goal is to have all the proprietary parts live in the userspace opengl/vulkan libraries, not inside a kernel driver.
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Apr 7, 2017 06:22
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