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Volguus posted:Thanks for opening my eyes (you and everyone before), as indeed you are right, i am not a founder and I did not take any risks so far. I guess I was just too greedy. I'll just look towards getting some employee-level stake in the company, even if ultimately it may be just a puff of smoke. There are so many ways for the founders to get screwed over it's generally best to avoid thinking too much about it and put a multiplier on the value of your options very close to 0. Off the top of my head, none of you get money because the company is worth less than the multiple on the investors shares. Or they issue a trillion shares leaving you with effectively nothing. Or they fire you the day before your shares vest.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:01
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Volguus posted:I'll just look towards getting some employee-level stake in the company, even if ultimately it may be just a puff of smoke. You could get laid off, company could get bought, it's generally not worth enumerating the failure modes. The pertinent questions are: 1) What's your runway? 2) What's your funding strategy/plan? 3) What's your preferred exit? Runway is important, even at millions of dollars in the bank, because that's when you get laid off. Long-term funding is in the same boat, "do you have a credible plan for me to bet my life and career on," if it's the rich guy's idle hobby you might not want to sign up. Preferred exit gives you a time frame and tells you if they'll go broke to ship more units instead of taking the $6 billion earth dollars from google.
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Apr 5, 2017 21:02
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I got contacted by a Google recruiter who turned out to be looking for "Software Engineer, Site Reliability Engineering”. I haven't been a software engineer that works on ~global scale systems~. In fact, with my last job (and hopefully the next) I've been moving my career more towards the embedded side of things. I've never been able to bring myself to care deeply about data center networking or ensuring website availability and that sounds like that's pretty much the gist of an SRE. The job descriptions from Google's site and the recruiter are all vagaries about "you're still doing software engineering, just at a LARGE SCALE." No specifics at all and that bugs me. Is anyone here an SRE for Google or has interviewed for same? Do I have the right read on it?
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Apr 8, 2017 17:05
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If you work in a field you're interested in, and aren't looking for a change, why force it? Embedded isn't going anywhere, ever.
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Apr 8, 2017 17:30
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I don't want to dismiss anything out of hand based on a preconceived notion that's totally wrong
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Apr 8, 2017 17:38
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How serious are you about specializing in embedded systems? That's the question you really need to answer. If it's something you're just interested in, then taking a job doing something else might not be so bad. If it's something that you're obsessed with, you need to hold out for something relevant.
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Apr 8, 2017 17:54
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csammis posted:I got contacted by a Google recruiter who turned out to be looking for "Software Engineer, Site Reliability Engineering”. I haven't been a software engineer that works on ~global scale systems~. In fact, with my last job (and hopefully the next) I've been moving my career more towards the embedded side of things. I've never been able to bring myself to care deeply about data center networking or ensuring website availability and that sounds like that's pretty much the gist of an SRE. The job descriptions from Google's site and the recruiter are all vagaries about "you're still doing software engineering, just at a LARGE SCALE." No specifics at all and that bugs me. The SREs in Google Pittsburgh talked a lot about working on "everything" . That when something broke they fixed it but had it reviewed by the team that developed it. They paired programmed and seemed to potentially have their hand in anything. So if that's your type of field it would work.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:52
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I work at a big tech company. I've been here for a little over two years and haven't gotten a meaningful raise and won't have a chance of getting promoted until January, so I want to interview at a competing company so I can get an offer and use it to justify asking for a raise. However, I don't think I'll be ready to interview for that for another three months, and I just found out a new team in a completely different area is being formed to tackle something cool, and I'd like to see what they're up to and whether I'd be interested in joining. The problem is that I don't think they will have openings for long, so I can't interview externally before switching. If I wait to interview externally until afterward, it seems like I'd risk pissing off my new manager/director with the implicit threat of leaving within just a couple months after joining their team. Also, if it takes me six months to get ramped up and do something significant on the new team, then I wonder if that would negatively impact my chances of getting promoted. I guess that could be mitigated if I were to transfer to their team and defer any external interviewing until next year?
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Apr 8, 2017 21:24
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oliveoil posted:If I wait to interview externally until afterward, it seems like I'd risk pissing off my new manager/director with the implicit threat of leaving within just a couple months after joining their team. Gee, I'd love to hear from you what kind of threat you would consider 'explicit'.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:23
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Well, I figured I would say something like "hey, I like working here but this other company is offering me more and I'm sure how to respond. what should I do?" rather than "if you don't pay me more then I'm going to leave."
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Apr 8, 2017 22:28
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oliveoil posted:"if you don't pay me more then I'm going to leave." No matter what you say, this is what they're going to hear.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:54
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If you aren't paid fairly have you considered actually leaving? Threatening to leave to get a raise is a bad move all around.
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Apr 8, 2017 23:10
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Jose Valasquez posted:If you aren't paid fairly have you considered actually leaving? Threatening to leave to get a raise is a bad move all around. One guy on a sibling team suggested I try to get a retention bonus, and someone I knew who used to be a manager of software engineers here actually told me a while back that this is how to say it. Basically to say I got an offer and don't know what to do. So I think "threatening to leave to get a raise" is probably not uncommon here, though doing it two months after joining a new team does seem like it would be perceived as a lovely move. I do like the company I'm at. Maybe I'd actually leave if another place offered me both a promotion and a significant raise. I.e., moving from my junior-level position to a mid-level position with pay high enough that my current company wouldn't ever consider matching it for a junior. If compensation ended up being equal, though, I'd prefer to stay. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 23:24
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Parsing the phrasing for your intention takes a back seat to the fact that it's a power move. And it's understandable on both sides, because you want more leverage. Regardless of how you convey it, you're forcing a potentially hard choice on your own timing. This isn't very implicit as it's clear as day. Especially so at a big tech company which has no doubt seen this countless times. They may even, as a policy, reject these kinds of demands because it's happened enough times, and maybe employee retention isn't good enough after the fact anyways. Have you already had conversations with your boss or relevant superiors? Have you seen a growth in responsibilities and developed deep expertise in some area? "I've been here for a couple of years, and want to grow my career here. However, as I've grown in responsibilities and developed deeper knowledge around X, my pay has remained flat. I want to advance in my career goals. Is there anything I can do to help make this happen?" ...or something. EDIT: "junior-level position" After two years, this is a sign that you either really need a title bump, or you're not as good as you think. Either way, since you say it's a large company, I think a snap judgment of "junior title. nah." isn't out of the question. Maybe try for the title bump.
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Apr 8, 2017 23:31
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:EDIT: "junior-level position" Elsewhere, they've said they have 4 years experience overall. Regardless, given they've said they work at a "MicroLinkedFaceGooberZon" i would be really concerned about having two years experience as an entry-level engineer without having been put up for promotion. they'll need some good storytime to explain why they haven't been promoted, and their reasons should be something like having a bad manager/mentor or transferring teams to much. also, if they do want to leave and come back, they should be cognizant of the fact that most large tech companies take growth into account. someone who's entry level and straight out of college is fine, but someone who has been stuck at entry-level for 5 years probably isn't worth the hire. additionally, what do they actually want to be? in this thread they've thought about * becoming a sales engineer * focusing on ML * somehow getting a senior-level position at another major tech company (when they can't even convince their current company that they should be promoted once from entry-level?) * taking a whole summer off to play videogames so maybe figure that out first?
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Apr 9, 2017 01:28
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FamDav posted:Elsewhere, they've said they have 4 years experience overall. Yeah, I had about 2 years experience before getting hired as a junior here, and being specific about my life details on the internet makes my shudder, so I may have slightly more or less experience than I've said. Also, I change my mind a lot. I don't really have a clear goal except I want to make as much money as I can and I'm not sure which way to do that or what is possible, so I keep thinking of different options and then I don't know if they're feasible or not so I throw them at the Internet and see what smarter people think. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 01:32
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The people who stay in this career long-term are the ones who have goals beyond making a lot of money. If you've been doing it for about four years, you're reaching the point where you need to start thinking about exactly what you do want.
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Apr 9, 2017 01:37
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csammis posted:Is anyone here an SRE for Google or has interviewed for same? Do I have the right read on it? I'm a Google SWE-SRE, but I just got back from Germany so my brain is too cooked to write a good response. As a job it's pretty far from embedded systems, but it's a legit engineering type role, not a "herp a derp, reboot the server" kind of job. It's more about being an expert in Google's massive production environment and engineering tools and processes focusing on reliability and scale (as opposed too 'neat ML tricks' or snazzy web UX frontends, etc). If you PM me or reply I can try and think of something later when I'm less dumb. On that note, SRE teams tend to be geographically distributed so more opportunities for international travel in business class if that's your thing! Also executing prod changes over dodgy wifi in airport lounges 
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Apr 9, 2017 02:06
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I need some advice folks. So, I handed in my notice because basically I'm fed up with putting on so many miles onto my car. My current work have for all intents and purposes matched what I would be getting working for this new place, in terms of salary, with the addition of working from home one day a week. Now, I have been doing this for five and a half years - a 60 mile round trip every day, compared to 19 miles round trip for this new place. What would you folks do? I work with a very good team in my office and a huge part of me really, really doesn't want to leave that. but the distance...
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Apr 9, 2017 12:10
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Westie posted:What would you folks do? I work with a very good team in my office and a huge part of me really, really doesn't want to leave that. but the distance... How long does the drive take? I commute about 30 miles (per direction), but it's 95% easy highway. The average time is 35-45 minutes. I thought I would hate it, but with a USB memory stick full of podcasts and a fuel efficient car, it's not so bad. Anyway, did you approach your manager about working from home 1-2 days a week? They might be willing to allow you to do that vs losing a good employee. As you found out, that day or two also makes a huge difference when you have a decent commute.
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Apr 9, 2017 13:17
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Westie posted:I need some advice folks. You already put in notice, so I'd go with the new place. Enjoy your shorter commute; I did 60 miles in LA for a while and presently live less than 2 from my current place. It'd be real hard for me to go back to a real commute for a while (ever).
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Apr 9, 2017 13:18
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Westie posted:I need some advice folks. If you use the IRS mileage rate, then it costs you about $5000 a year to drive those additional 40 miles a day and that's ignoring the time cost. You've already given notice and that's a substantial amount of money and time that you'll be saving every year.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:32
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Westie posted:What would you folks do? I work with a very good team in my office and a huge part of me really, really doesn't want to leave that. but the distance... As others have said you already put in your notice - if you were feeling fed up enough to do that, that's reason enough to stick to your guns at this point. For my part, I walk to my job in under 10 minutes, and it's loving amazing. Not everything about the job is great, in fact I'm likely going to be in a new job by the end of the year if certain events proceed the way it looks like they will. But I can tell you right now that companies within walkable distance are going to have an enormous advantage right out of the gate. That's me though, I get really aggravated in the heavy traffic we have where I live, and I can't imagine starting and ending each and every work day with that kind of stress. I feel like it would taint the entire job.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:19
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I hated a long commute, never again. Stick with your decision IMO.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:23
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Commute is just part of compensation. I joked that going from Bellevue to Seattle is a 20k crossing the bridge premium for me in my calculations. Figure out how much you care and follow it. For me now I have a bad commute but a great house for the family and that worth it. Single and no family 3 mi 10 min commute was great.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:42
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Most people underestimate the quality of life effects of a long commute. It's not just time, and it's rarely worth it.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:57
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Switching from a thirty minute shuttle commute each way (meaning extra padding before and after, and very limited arrival/departures) to a <5 minute walk and I can't loving wait. Trading adding a roommate to get that plus $12,000 more per year, which is probably pretty fair.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:03
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B-Nasty posted:How long does the drive take? I commute about 30 miles (per direction), but it's 95% easy highway. The average time is 35-45 minutes. It can take anywhere between 42 minutes (which is for me, absolutely perfect as it's through rural country roads) to an hour and ten minutes, depending on how quickly i can move 2 miles mhm that's right, sometimes one one third (time wise) of a 30 mile journey is spent moving two miles i'm literally that guy from Montreal at times rest of the time, zero traffic! I love British infrastructure
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Apr 10, 2017 00:46
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Westie posted:It can take anywhere between 42 minutes (which is for me, absolutely perfect as it's through rural country roads) to an hour and ten minutes, depending on how quickly i can move 2 miles That's probably standard for most large us cities. Going from office parking garage to the freeway for me is like 3 blocks and can take 20-25 minutes and routing 10 blocks to save time.
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Apr 10, 2017 00:48
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Westie posted:It can take anywhere between 42 minutes (which is for me, absolutely perfect as it's through rural country roads) to an hour and ten minutes, depending on how quickly i can move 2 miles Yeah, the two killers for me would be >45 minutes and/or high variability in traffic jams. Nothing ruins your day like being all ready to get in/home and seeing a sea of brake lights ahead of you. Another tip for commuters is to find a gym real close to the office (bonus if it's free/part of the campus.) After work, you can get in a 45-60 minute workout, and when you leave the gym, the traffic should've died down. It also removes the excuses and laziness that sets in once you get home.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:02
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Don't negotiate for a raise with another offer (at least explicitly, fine to keep one in your pocket and bounce if you don't get what you want). Don't accept a counter offer either. You will regret it 9/10 times.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:34
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Don't negotiate for a raise with another offer (at least explicitly, fine to keep one in your pocket and bounce if you don't get what you want). Don't accept a counter offer either. You will regret it 9/10 times. Is that personal experience? I'm not sure what's wrong with taking a counter-offer. I mean, yeah your current job doesn't appreciate your true worth but neither does the new job. If the only thing at issue is that you want more compensation (more money, less commute, more vacation) and it takes slapping them with another offer to get it, are they really going to hold it against you? Every time I've left a job it's either been an issue with upper management or the otherwise-awesome job that couldn't make payroll. Either way, I wasn't going to get a counter-offer that would change my mind. But I could see working at some decent job and just wanting them to fork over a raise.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:56
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Mniot posted:I'm not sure what's wrong with taking a counter-offer. I mean, yeah your current job doesn't appreciate your true worth but neither does the new job. If the only thing at issue is that you want more compensation (more money, less commute, more vacation) and it takes slapping them with another offer to get it, are they really going to hold it against you? In my experience, yes. You might get what you want in the counteroffer, but many bosses will resent you for playing the game.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:28
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Yep, I accepted a counter offer. Which resulted in a 4 or 5 year long lawsuit. Fun times! You don't need to be a rocket scientist or have personal experience to figure out that threatening to leave might actually make your boss like you less, at the very least, and offchance turn them into a psychopath that torches their own career to gently caress you over. Obviously that's not terribly likely, but the first one is a near definite! Plus, if you want to leave at all, you'll still want to leave. Might take you 6 months to remember, but you will.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:35
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Comp is *never* the only issue, anyway. People get bored, just move on.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:36
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I've never understood counteroffers, it seems like a sign of a bad compensation plan. But then I've never angled for or received one. Ask A Manager sums it up the whole thing pretty well here: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2012/03/26/why-you-shouldnt-take-a-counteroffer VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Yep, I accepted a counter offer. Which resulted in a 4 or 5 year long lawsuit. Fun times! A lawsuit? Please continue.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:20
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Comp is *never* the only issue, anyway. People get bored, just move on. Disagree. The one successful counter I know of was starting new grads at 35-40k and then giving 2-3% raises for two years. "Hey, I got an offer down the block for 90k". 15 years later he's still there running the team he's on.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:43
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Yep, I accepted a counter offer. Which resulted in a 4 or 5 year long lawsuit. Fun times! I don't suppose you can share more? This sounds interesting.
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Apr 10, 2017 04:10
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:Comp is *never* the only issue, anyway. People get bored, just move on.
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Apr 10, 2017 04:20
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csammis posted:I got contacted by a Google recruiter who turned out to be looking for "Software Engineer, Site Reliability Engineering”. I haven't been a software engineer that works on ~global scale systems~. In fact, with my last job (and hopefully the next) I've been moving my career more towards the embedded side of things. I've never been able to bring myself to care deeply about data center networking or ensuring website availability and that sounds like that's pretty much the gist of an SRE. The job descriptions from Google's site and the recruiter are all vagaries about "you're still doing software engineering, just at a LARGE SCALE." No specifics at all and that bugs me. I was a SRE at Facebook (they call them Production Engineers over there). No, you haven't worked on ~global scale systems~ but not many people have, and they recognize that. They'll train you up. It's kinda hard to characterize what a SRE does, but basically since you're dealing with cattle and not pets, you'll be building the robots that take care of the cattle. Examples of things SREs did: - build a system to automatically upgrade host kernels as fast as possible, but in such a way that production capacity is not affected. - Add some monitoring and alarming to a service that uses week-on-week metric comparisons to judge health. - Write a system that uses shadow production traffic to exercise candidate binaries and does statistical comparisons of various metrics to detect bugs and perf wins (this is an alternative to using explicit tests). - Rework the compile/link phases to ensure "hot functions" are grouped together so they don't ever stomp on each other's I-cache lines. At scale, aggregate statistics become more important than individual data points: e.g. not "why is traffic to this machine so slow" but "why is the 95th percentile of request latency to my 50,000 machines so high? Is this problem regional, specific to a certain type of hardware, kernel version, etc?" SREs tend to have broad knowledge about many different things, but not really that deep into any specific thing. c.f. Software Engineers who tend to have deep knowledge in a couple of areas.
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