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eschaton posted:a perfectly reasonable attitude on their part when the Linux clown show wont provide a binary compatibility guarantee of their own Yeah, that way the mainline kernel becomes an unmanageable mess where AMD has to maintain their layer or else it breaks part of their 100,000 lines of garbage HAL. That's a far more reasonable solution than: use existing kernel functions and create a manageable stack that the community can maintain. Yep, the first option is way better. Huh, it's almost like if AMD or Nvidia played by the rules, they could get a binary compatibility guarantee that would be maintained by the community, and at least AMD is trying!
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Apr 7, 2017 12:43
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amd have been trying this "open source" thing for 10 years now but success hasn't really happened yet
Maximum Leader fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 13:09
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Maximum Leader posted:amd have been trying this "open source" thing for 10 years now but success hasn't really happened yet They thought they could strong arm the community into adding their lovely HAL layer, they were wrong.
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Apr 7, 2017 13:17
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amd has been saying they'd do ~good lunix~ since they bought ati, but they haven't actually done anything at all until 2016. it'll probably take them a good year or two more at this pace before their gpu driver is in the kernel and working properly, and i can only hope they don't give up on it, they sure seem to be going in the right direction right now.
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Apr 7, 2017 13:34
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ratbert90 posted:They thought they could strong arm the community into adding their lovely HAL layer, they were wrong. hardware abstraction layer layer
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Apr 7, 2017 13:57
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yeah, should've been hardware abstraction abstraction layer.
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Apr 7, 2017 14:01
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ratbert90 posted:Yeah, that way the mainline kernel becomes an unmanageable mess where AMD has to maintain their layer or else it breaks part of their 100,000 lines of garbage HAL. huh it's almost as if linux had real stable interfaces and sound engineering practices it wouldn't be necessary at all to intimately tie the development cycles of amd or nvidia to those of the kernel this is the worst blind spot of the open source world. the development and interface models that are popular due to blindly applied ideology do not scale. applies at all levels too, it's an even worse problem at the distro level start looking with open eyes at what isn't really working and is likely to continue being dysfunctional no matter how much you tell yourself the promised land is near. otherwise you will be doomed to continue repeating bad mistakes and ensuring that open sores software stays in its nerd niches (aside from commercial outfits taking your stuff and using it in a way which doesn't really contribute back to you in a meaningful way, see: android) also lol at the idea that gpu drivers can be meaningfully maintained by the community
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Apr 7, 2017 19:10
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BobHoward posted:huh it's almost as if linux had real stable interfaces and sound engineering practices it wouldn't be necessary at all to intimately tie the development cycles of amd or nvidia to those of the kernel Isn't Linux by far the kernel with the widest platform support ever? Seems it works OK and is not just ideology. Even if it means some (important) proprietary chips have a hard time maintaining drivers.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:00
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in reality it just means that anything using any kind of proprietary driver is stuck on some old version of linux, idk how you can twist that into being a good thing but feel free to try
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Apr 7, 2017 22:22
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Athas posted:Isn't Linux by far the kernel with the widest platform support ever? Seems it works OK and is not just ideology. Even if it means some (important) proprietary chips have a hard time maintaining drivers. nope, that's netbsd
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Apr 7, 2017 22:37
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Maximum Leader posted:in reality it just means that anything using any kind of proprietary driver is stuck on some old version of linux, idk how you can twist that into being a good thing but feel free to try nvidia cards aside, what really needs proprietary drivers anymore? even broadcom's janky wifi chips generally work now.
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Apr 7, 2017 22:37
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The_Franz posted:nvidia cards aside, what really needs proprietary drivers anymore? even broadcom's janky wifi chips generally work now. ya they "work"
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Apr 7, 2017 22:40
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BobHoward posted:huh it's almost as if linux had real stable interfaces and sound engineering practices it wouldn't be necessary at all to intimately tie the development cycles of amd or nvidia to those of the kernel broadly the most important realization in any kind of platform work is to see when the value of the stuff which relies on your thing exceeds the value of your thing in and of itself. linux has sort of been bailed out by red hat, and for a lot of key use cases, the java team, understanding this, and insulating the actually productive world from the linux "community" bullshit microsoft, intel and ibm were largely built on this realization, though microsoft is rather wavering of late (as was intel in the itanium days), but in the end respect for invested value does win out
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Apr 8, 2017 00:10
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BobHoward posted:huh it's almost as if linux had real stable interfaces and sound engineering practices it wouldn't be necessary at all to intimately tie the development cycles of amd or nvidia to those of the kernel Perhaps if Nvidia or AMD had sound engineering practices they would write proper drivers that were in the mainline kernel. Also the community literally created the open source AMD and nvidia drivers by reverse engineering registers, if those registers were documented the open source drivers would be just fine. FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 04:20
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ratbert90 posted:Perhaps if Nvidia or AMD had sound engineering practices they would write proper drivers that were in the mainline kernel. Yes, all they have to do is piss tens of millions down the drain continuously updating really complex software for a worthless market with < 1% share. It's odd that neither of them have done this. Or the linux devs could put their big boy pants on and make a stable abi The_Franz posted:even broadcom's janky wifi chips generally work now. Reminder: jre posted:half arsed barely working drivers or 100% feature complete stable drivers ?
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Apr 8, 2017 04:27
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Maximum Leader posted:in reality it just means that anything using any kind of proprietary driver is stuck on some old version of linux, idk how you can twist that into being a good thing but feel free to try it's not good, it just doesn't matter vendors who try to ship old kernels with proprietary drivers are only hurting their customers and themselves
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Apr 8, 2017 04:27
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jre posted:Yes, all they have to do is piss tens of millions down the drain continuously updating really complex software for a worthless market with < 1% share. It's odd that neither of them have done this. Or the linux devs could put their big boy pants on and make a stable abi the linux market is very valuable to nvidia though not so much video games. more, video walls, teleconferencing, visualization, projection systems, etc.
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Apr 8, 2017 04:28
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jre posted:Yes, all they have to do is piss tens of millions down the drain continuously updating really complex software for a worthless market with < 1% share. It's odd that neither of them have done this. Or the linux devs could put their big boy pants on and make a stable abi Yeah, there's no way they could make a driver work with the Kernel. Instead they should just keep shoehorning the windows binary blob into the Kernel via a wrapper.
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Apr 8, 2017 04:32
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jre posted:Yes, all they have to do is piss tens of millions down the drain continuously updating really complex software for a worthless market with < 1% share. It's odd that neither of them have done this. Or the linux devs could put their big boy pants on and make a stable abi hint: gpus are used for a lot more than babby bideo james and not having working linux drivers is one of the big reasons why nvidia owns the workstation and high-end compute markets
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Apr 8, 2017 14:12
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cuda
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Apr 8, 2017 16:15
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i barely knew her!
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Apr 8, 2017 16:26
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The_Franz posted:hint: gpus are used for a lot more than babby bideo james Wow really ? What an amazing insight. Literally no-one else in this thread other than you knew that. Thank god you're here quote:and not having working linux drivers is one of the big reasons why nvidia owns the workstation and high-end compute markets So you're agreeing with me that nvidia's approach of ignoring the idiot linux kernel developers and just doing blobs was the right one ?
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Apr 8, 2017 17:58
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jre posted:So you're agreeing with me that nvidia's approach of ignoring the idiot linux kernel developers and just doing blobs was the right one ? no. amd "ignored the idiot kernel developers" and had their fglrx binary blob drivers for a long time too. terrible doesn't even begin to describe them and they were worse than the radeonsi kernel drivers in every possible way. the current open driver push came out of them realizing that their blob drivers were unsalvageable and starting over
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Apr 8, 2017 18:09
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amd drivers always were and still are terrible regardless of platform and licensing
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Apr 8, 2017 22:12
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Silver Alicorn posted:nope, that's netbsd why do you lie
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Apr 8, 2017 23:22
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Lmbo the Windows 10 creators update breaks the Nvidia drivers. So much for a stable ABI!
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Apr 9, 2017 06:16
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ive been playin video games all day on creators update w/ NVidia drivers w no probs.
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Apr 9, 2017 06:20
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Shaggar posted:ive been playin video games all day on creators update w/ NVidia drivers w no probs. Nvidia posted new drivers with notes specifically about fixing Creators Update issues. I assume you have the latest drivers.
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Apr 9, 2017 06:26
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ratbert90 posted:Nvidia posted new drivers with notes specifically about fixing Creators Update issues. I assume you have the latest drivers.
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Apr 9, 2017 06:43
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i'm sure the new amd drivers will still be bad, but at least they won't be broken all the time getting out of the business of shipping kernel blobs is a good move
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Apr 9, 2017 14:43
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ratbert90 posted:Nvidia posted new drivers with notes specifically about fixing Creators Update issues. I assume you have the latest drivers. they also released fixed linux drivers a day or two later which fixed the 4.10 compatibility issue the shameful thing is that in both cases nvidia knew these changes were coming for months and yet they still had launch day hiccups
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Apr 10, 2017 18:02
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The_Franz posted:they also released fixed linux drivers a day or two later which fixed the 4.10 compatibility issue That would require them to give a poo poo and have good engineering practices.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:30
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linux is awesome and unique, you can't pin it down with a stable abi
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Apr 10, 2017 19:28
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Toady posted:linux is awesome and unique, you can't pin it down with a stable abi vs windows which has the world's most stable ABI.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:36
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Shaggar posted:windows stable driver apis mean it has drivers. the lack of stable drivers mean Linux doesn't have drivers. having drivers is better than not having drivers. windows is better than Linux because windows has drivers and Linux does not.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:34
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gently caress, how am I typing this when there's no drivers for Linux?
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Apr 10, 2017 21:05
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ratbert90 posted:gently caress, how am I typing this when there's no drivers for Linux?
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Apr 10, 2017 21:37
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cinci zoo sniper posted:you are the typing driver for linux I'm the chipset, sata controller, filing system, hard drive, USB, graphics card, HDMI, keyboard, and mouse drivers for Linux.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:47
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Apr 10, 2017 23:48
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Apr 10, 2017 23:51
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