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I found an old copy of Mage the Ascension and Guide to the Technocracy in a second hand store the other day. I picked it up but the waves of second hand embarassment were too much. I might buy them after next payday though, for shits and giggles.
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Apr 25, 2017 21:16
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I'm having another bit of Demon trouble. The books talk a lot about how demons buy, sell and trade Pacts, but as far as I can tell there is no mention at all of how that works mechanically. Can you sell Pacts that you've already made part of your Cover? Can you hoard Pacts without making them part of your Cover? Can you in fact sell your entire Cover? Can you move Pacts from one of your Covers to another? The wiki mentions something called a "Bill of Sale" that's supposedly some kind of rider you add to a Pact to make it tradeable and the rules for that would really clear this up, but they don't seem to actually be anywhere in the books.
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Apr 25, 2017 22:38
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I Am Just a Box posted:The shame is that the art is probably the one pretty good thing about Beast. If you extracted all those illustrations in the book from the context of Beasts and what they are and do, they include some pretty solid "what the gently caress is that" miscellaneous horrors. Sam Araya, man. There's F&Fs of all three. Someone did Genius and Leviathan and I did most of Princess. Leviathan is interesting in that it's conceptually tighter relatively speaking and focuses on family and legacy as the splat is said to be older than humanity or something. Their powers are about exerting their influence and they occasionally lose control over their powers and change to their true forms which are distinctly more monstrous. It's been a while so I may be off on the details.
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Apr 25, 2017 22:39
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Terrorforge posted:I'm having another bit of Demon trouble. The books talk a lot about how demons buy, sell and trade Pacts, but as far as I can tell there is no mention at all of how that works mechanically. Can you sell Pacts that you've already made part of your Cover? Can you hoard Pacts without making them part of your Cover? Can you in fact sell your entire Cover? Can you move Pacts from one of your Covers to another? Advanced Pacting (Bils of Sale, promissary pacts, etc) are in Demon: Interface. It's an easy book to miss, as it's the Demon story anthology. It just also has rules in it.
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Apr 25, 2017 23:08
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Advanced Pacting (Bils of Sale, promissary pacts, etc) are in Demon: Interface. It's an easy book to miss, as it's the Demon story anthology. It just also has rules in it. Well. I was literally digging through all the demon books, opened Interface, saw "story anthology" and immediately closed it because clearly that's not the one, right? Thanks.
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Apr 25, 2017 23:11
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Terrorforge posted:Well. I was literally digging through all the demon books, opened Interface, saw "story anthology" and immediately closed it because clearly that's not the one, right? Thanks. Interface is the most important Demon book everyone forgets tbh.
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Apr 25, 2017 23:12
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Nevermind, I forgot Interface existed.
Rubix Squid fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 23:19
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http://bjz-backup.droppages.com/archive/asomatous.html This discipline was my favorite for some reason back in the Rhydin and Denver by Night days.
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Apr 25, 2017 23:41
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Kavak posted:Most of that can be probably traced to Beast's creator Matt McFarland doubling down on everything Senior Scarybagels said while the rest of the writing staff try to work things in a Vampire-like direction. The Hunter supplement from the Kickstarter ranged from the Union explaining exactly why they're no better than child abusers to Cheiron grinding them up to make super-viagra for Trump. That Hunter book was a good place to work out some of my problems with the game. I kind of approached it from a, "What if Beasts were..." standpoint. Also at the time I wrote most of it, the second draft version wasn't ready yet. Admittedly, I only kind of skimmed the second draft, because it's a pretty big book and I find it painstakingly difficult to parse minor differences in such a huge thing I was only nominally involved in.
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Apr 26, 2017 05:19
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That was very helpful, but there's still one big thing that confuses me - how does banking Pacts work? Do you specifically have to make it a Promisory or Transfer Pact to prevent it from taking effect immediately? The wording of the rules for Bills of Sale seems to imply that you can have a pact and enjoy the roleplaying benefits of being, say, being a cab driver without fully incorporating it into your Cover to benefit from the Cover xp. Is that right? And when you're doing Cover Trading, it mentions you must do so with entire dots at a time. So if I have, say, a 2-xp relationship with a loyal dog, can I not trade it at all, or would I just have to bundle it with a 1-xp aspect? And are there any guidelines for moving things between your Covers? This system would technically allow you to sell something to another demon and then buy it right back for your other Cover, but then you're trusting another demon and anchoring a favorite part of your identity with two Pacts. Actually, how does chaining Pacts work? Say I Pact a mortal for his wife, incorporate her into my Cover, then sell her to Mr. Fishy in a Cover Trade. If my original Pact is destroyed, does Mr. Fishy lose his new wife? e: oh, and in the example for Promisory Pacts, the demon pays extra for delaying her own reward. Is that a mistake, or does it fall under the Duration remit of "being able to dictate these terms always benefits the demon" Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 11:03
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LatwPIAT posted:Changing the Assamite Clan Flaw for one of the other Clan Flaw they've had through the ages wouldn't exactly be a great step away from the celebration of the game's entire history, especially when that's already being done with the Tremere. And they could have gone with a less orientalist drawing for the splat-writeup.
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Apr 26, 2017 11:20
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Nessus posted:It would probably impair the gothic luridness of the entire situation but it would be tight if they did some kind of V20/W20/whatever20-2 that sandblasted away most of the racist crap (and I only say most because so many of these subsplats' flavor have roots in a specific cultural milieu. You can delete the Fianna though) It would certainly be easy enough to do for Vampire, since I'm pretty sure nearly all the important concepts in Vampire have had tastefully-executed iterations of themselves somewhere in the game line (and the ones that haven't are easier to drop). I absolutely don't care about Assamites turning black (is that even a stereotype for Muslims?) but if it turns out there's something awful there I was ignorant of, it's certainly easy enough to toss away. It would be way, way, way harder to do for Werewolf, because so much of the problematical ideas are just baked in.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:26
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I Am Just a Box posted:The shame is that the art is probably the one pretty good thing about Beast. If you extracted all those illustrations in the book from the context of Beasts and what they are and do, they include some pretty solid "what the gently caress is that" miscellaneous horrors. Sam Araya, man. The Yuri Group or whatever it's called is really a long overdue concept. That's about the best thing I can think of Beast. "People who get that monsters that used to people probably start out as people and slowly degenerate due to the lovely situation they're in." is a huge change of pace from the whole noble bigot/we're killing you for your own good thing that most Hunter groups have going. It's kind of ironic that it came in Beast of all freaking things though. The fact that the Yuri Group can actually keep lines like Vampire from falling prey to their internal mechanics punches one hell of a big hole in the concept that the monsters have to hurt humans and the hunters have to hurt the monsters. It also raises a bunch of neat moral questions about whether you're handling the hunt right by being the type to kill first and ask questions later instead of looking for long term solutions. As a bonus their ideology is literally a complete and utter call out of Beast's bullshit justifications of using fear to improve people as the crock of poo poo that it is. Turns out that being comprised of more than a few psychologists and other similar professions means that they can tell when someone is desperately trying to justify their own predatory urges and insecure need to feel superior to the rest of the world due to their own insecurities. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 15:39
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Archonex posted:As a bonus their ideology is literally a complete and utter call out of Beast's bullshit justifications of using fear to improve people as the crock of poo poo that it is. Turns out that being comprised of more than a few psychologists and other similar professions means that they can tell when someone is desperately trying to justify their own predatory urges and need insecure need to feel superior to the rest of the world. It's intentional. MachineIV posted:That Hunter book was a good place to work out some of my problems with the game. I kind of approached it from a, "What if Beasts were..." standpoint.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:47
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Rand Brittain posted:It would certainly be easy enough to do for Vampire, since I'm pretty sure nearly all the important concepts in Vampire have had tastefully-executed iterations of themselves somewhere in the game line (and the ones that haven't are easier to drop). I absolutely don't care about Assamites turning black (is that even a stereotype for Muslims?) but if it turns out there's something awful there I was ignorant of, it's certainly easy enough to toss away. The big problem is the archetypal association of black with evil, especially in the context of the Curse of Ham (as fuckwits interpret it, anyway) mixed in with the whole 'evil assamites' shtick. Personally, I actually really like the late era Assamite clan, though it has some things I'm still unhappy with. The curse itself is fine too - if it were the Lasombra, no one would bat an eyebrow in all likelihood. It's just that when you make the 'Muslim' clan (and as much as the setting moved on, that's still the Assamite stereotype - a muslim assassin who eats his victim's souls in the service of a dark tyrant. Usually, but not always, associated with extremist islam in the stereotype, since 1E Assamites weren't exactly great) be the one that is both evil and dark-skinned, people see that as either a deliberate shot or an inadvertant 'this... looks bad' situation.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:48
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Cease to Hope posted:It's intentional. Yeah, there's no way that whoever came up with the Yuri Group wasn't aware that Beast's are pretentious little assholes as how they're presented. The best part is that they have a militant arm too. The one thing that convinces the Yuri Group that you're beyond redemption is if you actively prey on people that are trying to seek help or better themselves. Picture your average dainty little psychologist with a PHD getting together with a bunch of other similar professionals and self help guru's to put a few 12 gauge rounds in the Prince's/the local Pure pack's rear end and you get what happens when even the most reasonable people in the setting say that you're beyond hope of doing anything but hurting other people. What's more, they probably know a lot more about how various supernatural beings work due to actively sitting down and trying to help them cope with their condition. So they could gently caress you up in ways that even the conspiracies couldn't. They're basically what the Talbot Group and Null Mysteriis wish they could be. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 15:57
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Archonex posted:Yeah, there's no way that whoever came up with the Yuri Group wasn't aware that Beast's are pretentious little assholes as how they're presented. MachineIV is the whoever, in this case. 
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Apr 26, 2017 16:00
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Cease to Hope posted:MachineIV is the whoever, in this case. Well holy poo poo. No wonder that group seemed way out of place to the rest of the line.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:59
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Archonex posted:The Yuri Group or whatever it's called is really a long overdue concept. That's about the best thing I can think of Beast. Yuri's Group. The Yuri Group is a completely different game line. 
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Apr 26, 2017 16:05
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Kurieg posted:Yuri's Group. Fan game line, at that. Something about hope, or somesuch. 
Spector29 fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 16:08
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It also has 3 incredibly detailed chapters on rules for making a campaign about Ice Skating for no discernible reason.
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Apr 26, 2017 16:11
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Kurieg posted:It also has 3 incredibly detailed chapters on rules for making a campaign about Ice Skating for no discernible reason. And a recipe for piroshiki. Quite useful, actually!
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Apr 26, 2017 16:12
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Important Game Design Tip: When you name stuff in an RPG, it might be wise to see what a Google search on that name turns up.
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Apr 26, 2017 16:20
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As long as it's a possessive (In the book it's Yuri's group, so your brain parses it as a person) it's fine. It's when you forget the possessive your brain starts parsing it as an activity.
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Apr 26, 2017 16:20
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Kurieg posted:It also has 3 incredibly detailed chapters on rules for making a campaign about Ice Skating for no discernible reason.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:11
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So I did some writing. It's just a Changeling 1.5e attempt, but I figured it's fun. I still need to add the Seeming Conditions but... Well, it's something.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u3RGhznctE 
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Apr 26, 2017 20:57
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Important Game Design Tip: When you name stuff in an RPG, it might be wise to see what a Google search on that name turns up. A part of me is curious as to what that references. Another part of me knows better due to past incidents when morbid curiosity got the better of me. Edit: Haha. Whelp. I googled the word "yuri group". loving hell, internet. Time to scrub my internet history. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 22:56
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Kurieg posted:It also has 3 incredibly detailed chapters on rules for making a campaign about Ice Skating for no discernible reason. Are you sure it's not the edition with psionic Soviets?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFyCMTvl5lQ
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Apr 26, 2017 23:04
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Xelkelvos posted:Are you sure it's not the edition with psionic Soviets? Not gonna lie. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard of that faction. Granted, there is a faction of psychic hunters that Beast introduced. But i'm pretty sure they aren't a group of bald-headed time traveling Russian tyrants. Rather, they prefer to hunt Beast's in their dreams using the psychic powers they were designed by a conspiracy to have. Or something like that. They sounded like a rad as gently caress crossover pitch with Deviant and Hunter when it was explained to me. It's kind of funny that the best written parts of Beast deal with people that want to stop or kill Beasts. Edit: Got it, their name is the Merrick Institute. From TVtropes, because i'm lazy as gently caress and it's been a long day: The Merrick Institute's Origin Story posted:After years being used as guinea pigs for painful dream experiments by a shadowy government organization, a group of child prodigies actually managed to communicate between themselves using code, overthrow their captors and take over the Institute, gaining their freedom in the process. Not only that, but they actually ended up starting their own conspiracy to fight monsters of their own will so they could protect people. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 23:06
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Archonex posted:A part of me is curious as to what that references. Another part of me knows better due to past incidents when morbid curiosity got the better of me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre) Kurieg fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 23:28
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Archonex posted:A part of me is curious as to what that references. Another part of me knows better due to past incidents when morbid curiosity got the better of me.
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Apr 27, 2017 00:37
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Archonex posted:A part of me is curious as to what that references. Another part of me knows better due to past incidents when morbid curiosity got the better of me. Oh no. Cartoon lesbians. How horrifying. Clearly you've seen the bottom of the pit of the internet now.
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Apr 27, 2017 00:40
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Yawgmoth posted:You know drat well it could have been a lot worse. Yeah, I figured this was some lemon party level stuff at first. Kind of disappointed now that it isn't. Daeren posted:Oh no. Cartoon lesbians. How horrifying. Clearly you've seen the bottom of the pit of the internet now. Hey, would you want to explain to your significant other/roommate/whatever why you apparently had a search for lesbian cartoons in your history? That'd be an awkward conversation to have.
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Apr 27, 2017 01:35
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"wow, your taste in mild quasi-porn is kinda heteronormative and possessive, what the gently caress man"
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Apr 27, 2017 01:36
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Whose partner is possessive over porn? That's some real...I don't know what but it's creepy and kinda pathetic.
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Apr 27, 2017 01:38
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:"wow, your taste in mild quasi-porn is kinda heteronormative and possessive, what the gently caress man" Alternatively: "Haha, what the heck? You watch cartoons about lesbians in love?" would be suitable for subbing in there. Still, not a big deal either way. Edit: I never said that they'd mock me for it. Just that it'd be kind of awkward until I explained it. Where are you getting that from? Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 01:40
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Archonex posted:Alternatively: "Haha, what the heck? You watch cartoons about lesbians in love?" would be suitable for subbing in there. If your SO is gonna mock you for watching Steven Universe, maybe they're kind of a jerk.
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Apr 27, 2017 01:43
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Archonex posted:Hey, would you want to explain to your significant other/roommate/whatever why you apparently had a search for lesbian cartoons in your history? That'd be an awkward conversation to have. Secondly, I have so many many things in my search history that are weirder than cartoon lesbians. So many things.
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Apr 27, 2017 02:08
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So many experiences playing and running V:tM in the MES, and this document, the requirements and creation guide for Elders in the new chronicle, reflects them all.
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Apr 27, 2017 02:15
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