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Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
I never heard of anyone negging FE12 for Kris other than the usual suspects who don't like any game past the gamecube one.

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Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
I've seen a handful of people complaining that Kris has a tendency to shoehorn their way into like every scene from the original and steal Marth's thunder, but no complaints that the OP self-insert was dragging the game down.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.

blizzardvizard posted:

This LP also makes me wanna play Shadow Dragon, but uh, I'm not sure if this is a case of the LP making the game seem much more fun than it actually is.

Honestly, I think Shadow Dragon gets worse rep than it deserves, and if you had a good time with New Mystery I think you'll like SD well enough, but no it is nowhere near as good as New Mystery.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

blizzardvizard posted:

I recently read through this LP, which made me want to reread the New Mystery LP, which then made me want to finish New Mystery after dropping it many years ago, and it was great fun so thanks for that. :) It's a pity the game got such a bad rep because of Kris (who I thought was pretty inoffensive self-insert tbh) and the lackluster art direction because I think the gameplay is top-notch.

Crap quality image because phone screenshot but I wanna show off this Ogma:

Because I find the image of a hardened warrior charging at you on a horse with two legendary weapons in hand :black101: af.

Horseman Ogma is something I'd never really considered but drat if that doesn't own. Definitely a good choice, especially considering it looks like you capped pretty much all the important stuff! New Mystery is one of my favorite Fire Emblems, while Shadow Dragon is in my bottom two or three, but that's personal choice and you might still enjoy it. I'd say it's at least worth giving a test run.

I've actually heard a little of the Kris hate, though pretty sparsely. (although that may be because FE12 is one of the less played games compared to like, Blazing Sword or Fates) Personally I don't really have a problem with them, since past the prologue they basically just act as an extension of Marth. You can certainly argue that having Marth need someone to reassure him a lot makes him look a little less strong, but having that sort of wary/shell shocked thing going on makes him less of a bland sandwich.

Miacis
Oct 9, 2012

Get off my lawn!!
Another common complaint I've heard about Kris is they are rather one-note and uninteresting compared to say, Robin. While this wouldn't be much an issue in a game full of one-note characters, they've also got a ton of lines of dialogue (not even counting supports), so their grampa/training/dutiful shtick wears thing rather quickly.

Being incredibly overpowered probably didn't win Kris any favors when the game first came out either. Now with Rob'n'Corr doing the same, we've gotten used to it.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Miacis posted:

Another common complaint I've heard about Kris is they are rather one-note and uninteresting compared to say, Robin. While this wouldn't be much an issue in a game full of one-note characters, they've also got a ton of lines of dialogue (not even counting supports), so their grampa/training/dutiful shtick wears thing rather quickly.

Being incredibly overpowered probably didn't win Kris any favors when the game first came out either. Now with Rob'n'Corr doing the same, we've gotten used to it.

I feel like the games since New Mystery each illustrated a good way to incorporate character creation into Fire Emblem going forward. In Fates, your character is the star of the show and everything revolves around them. In Awakening, you share a deuteragonist role with the main lord and while a lot of the story's about them, the other half is still focused on you. In New Mystery, you're just a very important friend to the main lord, with your own little subplot that takes place in gaiden chapters, away from the main story. I'll agree that the characterization in the last case was a little threadbare, but it's a good start. I don't think it'd be a good move to have the Avatar always be the main character, as in Fates, so I hope they use the other two models when they make the next new game.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

I think 12 is undeniably the overall best Fire Emblem. It does all the things that make FE FE without shunning any of them.

10 is the best gameplaywise, but thats at the cost of supports. 13 is the best supportwise, but thats at the cost of gameplay.

13 is actually my favorite but again, story gamer of course I like the one with the most character focus with all the bad jokes. I GROUND OUT EVERY SINGLE MOTHER loving SUPPORT GOD DAMNIT, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THAT TAKES? AN ENTIRE 100 HOURS.

My 3DS suddenly started working again so Ill probably try grinding 14 again after 15 assuming 15 doesnt have the mandatory grinding of 13 and 14.

Edit: I hope they bring back the 9/12 support Map # unlocks, combined with grindable maps you unlock at the very end of the game, BAM ALL SUPPORTS UNLOCKED IN 2 HOURS.

MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 17, 2017

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

MythosDragon posted:

I think 12 is undeniably the overall best Fire Emblem. It does all the things that make FE FE without shunning any of them.

10 is the best gameplaywise, but thats at the cost of supports. 13 is the best supportwise, but thats at the cost of gameplay.

13 is actually my favorite but again, story gamer of course I like the one with the most character focus with all the bad jokes. I GROUND OUT EVERY SINGLE MOTHER loving SUPPORT GOD DAMNIT, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THAT TAKES? AN ENTIRE 100 HOURS.

My 3DS suddenly started working again so Ill probably try grinding 14 again after 15 assuming 15 doesnt have the mandatory grinding of 13 and 14.

Edit: I hope they bring back the 9/12 support Map # unlocks, combined with grindable maps you unlock at the very end of the game, BAM ALL SUPPORTS UNLOCKED IN 2 HOURS.

I spent well over 100 hours carefully going through all the (non-S for gen 1) supports. Good times, good times.
Slightly less good times in Fates. Tried to get all the supports (ALL OF THEM, all variants) in Birthright in the middle of the campaign and nearly burnt out on the game; i didn't even try for that in Conquest and only focused on the shared supports in Revelation.

Echoes, at least, seems to be going for a mix of map/support points, so who knows what they'll go with in FE16.


Also, Corrin is kind of weird. Like they're the main character but also kind of...not? Birthright they really don't matter for about 90% of it, it feels. You're just kind of there with the rest of the army until Ryoma shows up, at which point its more his game guest starring Corrin's familial issues.
He's the bigger focus in Conquest, but he honestly matters less than Azura. Like he TRIES to matter but he still just kind of goes along with the flow rather tha ndoing anything stand out or endearing. Azura is the one with the plan that she pushes forward, really.
Revelation Corrin is more firmly the star but still feels like it goes out of focus once you're in the second half of the game.

That said it's not like there's anything inherently wrong with avatars being the main lord, if Ike or Marth were made customizable down to appearence & name they'd still be Ike or Marth, for example.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

rannum posted:

Echoes, at least, seems to be going for a mix of map/support points, so who knows what they'll go with in FE16.
Echoes is apparently FE16, according to some of the datamined code in the game. Which means that FE15 was in fact FE Heroes.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

AradoBalanga posted:

Echoes is apparently FE16, according to some of the datamined code in the game. Which means that FE15 was in fact FE Heroes.

Oh, neat. Well Heroes did have actual IS staff on it so I guess that's not too surprising.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Well the bigger thing is that they appparently count bs fire emblem, that dlc pack for fe12, as a number.

BlazeEmblem
Jun 8, 2013

Uh oh. Do I use Ariadne thread or Goho-M?

AradoBalanga posted:

Echoes is apparently FE16, according to some of the datamined code in the game. Which means that FE15 was in fact FE Heroes.

No, IS considers the Satellaview maps for FE3 (which were remade as bonus stages in New Mystery) as FE6 for some reason. So FE15 was Fates.

Edit: Beaten.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

BlazeEmblem posted:

No, IS considers the Satellaview maps for FE3 (which were remade as bonus stages in New Mystery) as FE6 for some reason. So FE15 was Fates.

Edit: Beaten.
:psyduck:

Okay then, note to self: don't bother trying to organize Fire Emblem games by release number.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.
I mean, for whatever reason we count the remakes as numbered entries, so this never made sense anyway.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

Yeah, screw that, keeping my numbers.

My philosophy is that the moment an enhanced remake exists with extra story content, the OG gets tossed in the trash and erased from existence. Yes even this games prologue that doesnt exist on hard and gaidens with absurd unlocks you would never see if you played normally count. So if we forced accurate numbers 4 would be the new 1, and thats just asking for confusion. Remakes that cut story content(FE 3's 1, Re: Neptunia) are things I will hate with a passion, and remakes that dont add story content just make me go "meh, why?".

I too decided to Grind supports in the Middle of 14R, That was about when I finally noticed my 3DS turns off at the slightest impact such as taking a drink and putting my hand back on the 3DS. I wasnt feeling many of the supports much either so I just kinda put my 3DS down till DQ8 came out it was still doing it. Fast forward to a week ago and I downloaded some of the bonus items with it and smacked it a bit hard by accident and it didnt turn off, so bam my 3DS fixed itself after a year for some reason. Its a launch 3DS.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



rannum posted:

I spent well over 100 hours carefully going through all the (non-S for gen 1) supports. Good times, good times.
Slightly less good times in Fates. Tried to get all the supports (ALL OF THEM, all variants) in Birthright in the middle of the campaign and nearly burnt out on the game; i didn't even try for that in Conquest and only focused on the shared supports in Revelation.

Echoes, at least, seems to be going for a mix of map/support points, so who knows what they'll go with in FE16.


Also, Corrin is kind of weird. Like they're the main character but also kind of...not? Birthright they really don't matter for about 90% of it, it feels. You're just kind of there with the rest of the army until Ryoma shows up, at which point its more his game guest starring Corrin's familial issues.
He's the bigger focus in Conquest, but he honestly matters less than Azura. Like he TRIES to matter but he still just kind of goes along with the flow rather tha ndoing anything stand out or endearing. Azura is the one with the plan that she pushes forward, really.
Revelation Corrin is more firmly the star but still feels like it goes out of focus once you're in the second half of the game.

That said it's not like there's anything inherently wrong with avatars being the main lord, if Ike or Marth were made customizable down to appearence & name they'd still be Ike or Marth, for example.

Customizable leads do mess up cutscenes. The need to never show Corrin was a major handicap compared to what Awakening worked with.

That said... yeah. Fate's narrative wasn't really about anyone. It's not a story where decision A leads to consequence B leads to choice C. Instead it's a sequence of random events. Good stories tend to arise from the decisions of the characters in them, whereas Fates has the characters and the story just... kind of happen near each other.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.
Chapter 17x: Thiefless Speedrun (Prep)

: The stories of Marth’s return to Altea have become distorted over these years. It’s best to hear it from someone who was there.

: But I was-

: Don’t worry, I’ll clear everything up.



: This was just as terrible as they say it was.




The Ballistas are still a nasty threat on Normal, honestly this chapter’s not too different. They have a little less attack power than their Hard versions, but they’re just about as obnoxious.




That said, so many more of my Normal units have better Defense.




Horace is pretty great on this map. Fresh from recruitment with a Steel Bow, he can one round most of the enemies, and he’s not going to be taking much, if any damage from them.




: Alas, Sir Astram fell on the field of battle.




: Thankfully, we recovered his stuff.




I realized I didn’t get Grigas’ boss quote last time. Here it is. Wow!




: Nobody really gives Gra credit, do they? Seems uncalled for.

: They sent a bouquet of weeds to Marth’s wedding, remember?

: Oh yeah. Never mind.



This is the problem Caeda can run into, somewhat frequently. She only has 6 Strength, and it’s starting to take its toll.

(Fun fact, that Stonehoist will one-shot Wrys if I don’t kill it immediately. He’s gotten like four empty levels.)




No Warp tricks this time, and Marth’s a little banged up from walking through Archer Alley there.




: I’m not sure why everyone keeps talking about these “Three” Pegasus Sisters, I only remember two.




: Our powerful army was nigh unstoppable.




: We chose to attack King Jiol from afar.



: It didn’t work. We closed in!




: Also did not work.

: You really should have hired a tactician.

: Oh, because THAT always works out, doesn’t it?

: ...Point taken.




: As we entered the cursed desert of Gharnef, we felt the life force seep from our bodies!

: That’s called sweat, Sir Jagen.




Here are our new Generics for this update. Hepto here has some ridiculous HP, but only five defense to back it up.




Octu’s made of tissue paper.




Naunu has one more strength than Caeda. They all have Resistance, though! And...zero luck. Huh.

: Naturally, when encountering the watchful wizards of Khadein, we did our best to conceal ourselves.




: With disguises!

: Give that back!





: Even my weapons were brilliant illusions.




Everyone is clearly very disguised here. Except Caeda, I mean, she didn’t get the memo. Julian only has the one outfit.




: Where did you get the dragon?




: Sir Jagen, that man doesn’t even have the right weapon.

: There’s a reason you don’t learn the Legend Of Hepto in Altean schools.





: Well, two reasons.




I just wanted to show the cool part of Imhullu’s animation, where the giant purple face appears and barfs a laser.




: Behold, the famous Pegasus Triangle Attack!

: That’s...not exactly how that works, I think.




The mages do a little less damage on this difficulty.. It took about three turns for these two to whittle down Naunu.





This is Merric’s incredibly unimpressive Crit animation.




: I was happy to return to my healing duties for Prince Marth’s sake.




: As well as a slight bribe.




Here’s the village we didn’t visit last time. Who could be waiting inside?




: :smith:

: :smith:

: but, things change, and I came to live here in this village. If you need warriors for the coming struggle, I would be honored to fight. Unfortunately, there has always been bad blood between this village and our neighbors. No doubt they closed their gates to you as soon as they saw you come here. You won’t be able to recruit the hero Samson now, I’m afraid.




Arran here is a little better than Samson, but that’s sadly not saying too much. His bases are awful for a unit his level, and he’s got very little room to grow. He’s pretty bad.




I wasn’t able to set up the defensive line this time.




Dealing with the reinforcements is much easier on this difficulty, because they don’t move on their first appearance. That means Caeda can get close with a Wing Spear.




: We embarked on a quest to get that Master Seal.




: We did, at least, get the Master Seal.

I kind of wanted to see how viable it would be to play the rest of the game without a thief. The Master Keys/Door Keys should make the doors easy, and the chests won’t be an issue due to the Fire Emblem.




: He never even talked to Marth.




I neglected the usefulness of the Barrier Staff on this map last time around.




This time it provided a Warp/Horace bomb.




The mages are smart enough to come into a range where he can’t counterattack, though.




This is Barrier doing its work again.




Grinding Norne’s weapon levels paid off here, because wow, Morzas’ defenses and resistances are completely disgusting.




: Now then, where was I…

: Retaking Altea Castle.





: an old fortress and key supply point during Dolhr and Grust’s occupation. There he meant to seize the last of the enemy’s gold and provisions, but Grust would not give up the castle without a fight…




I went ahead and promoted almost everyone. Ran out of seals for Merric and Wrys.




The layout for this map is a little strange. We’re starting in the middle, and have to head up north and loop around.




Lots of locked doors and rooms of hidden foes. I...probably should have kept the Thief around. But those great generic names…




The enemies aren’t very threatening here, aside from a few nasty promoted foes skulking around.




There’s also this incredibly rude hallway full of mages and archers. Next time we’ll deal with that.

Bonus Content

Horace Is Boring

: Dame Steve. I must thank you for saving my life.

: No, no. You should be thanking Prince Marth. He was the one who made the decision to help you, Lord Horace.

: ...Haha, I see. You and Prince Marth are really alike.

: ...Excuse me?

: ...Oh, forgive me. I found it amusing how the liege and vassal told me more or less the same thing. Prince Marth told me that too that I should be thanking you, Steve.

: R-really?

: Yes. You two are really well-matched. I'd like to learn from you. And to do that, we must first...

: Yes, Lord Horace. Assuredly, we shall FIRE EMBLEM 12 PLOT POINT

: It's most reassuring to hear it coming from you, Dame Steve. I might not be strong, but I'll do my best for Prince Marth. I will be counting on you, Dame Steve.

: Likewise, Lord Horace.

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


Dame Steve?

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

HardDiskD posted:

Dame Steve?

"Dame" is the female counterpart to "Sir" when speaking to those who hold a knighthood, it's used frequently in the Fire Emblem series.


LordHippoman posted:

Here are our new Generics for this update. Hepto here has some ridiculous HP, but only five defense to back it up.

Octu’s made of tissue paper.

Naunu has one more strength than Caeda. They all have Resistance, though! And...zero luck. Huh.

I said it before, but the generic units are literally just procedurally generated using their class' base stats and unmodified growth rates (that is, no personal growth rates are generated), two generic units of the same class and level should be identical. That's why they have Resistance and no Luck, every promoted class except Berserker (the class Intelligent Systems hates) has at least one point of Resistance, and every class has zero Luck, both for bases and growths. Also the classes are completely random, taken from the basic reclass pool (that is to say, no Falcoknights). They also won't generate as any class that's had its reclass limit maxed out, but you'd be hard-pressed to manage that for most classes, given that you need to murder your whole army just to unlock these guys.

Anyway, since we're working with level 1 promoted units, the stat formula is a little more complicated, adding a bonus equal to approximately fourteen times the class' growth rate (converted to a decimal) in each stat (though not exactly, as you can see by Hepto's stats being a point or two off that formula in places like HP and Skill), due to their promotion level being set at 15. As to the minor discrepancies, it may be that a couple random points are assigned to prevent the issue with guys being identical that I pointed out above, or it could be that the formula is more complex than the data miners claim.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

EclecticTastes posted:

They also won't generate as any class that's had its reclass limit maxed out, but you'd be hard-pressed to manage that for most classes, given that you need to murder your whole army just to unlock these guys.

Berserkers are capped at two and the only class that is likely to encounter this, another sign that intsys hates the best class

Paused
Oct 24, 2010

Torrannor posted:

Was somebody crazy enough to do this in Thracia 776? :aaa:

Here if you want to see it done, with audio commentary too. Played by dondon151, and it's actually the latest full 0% run hes completed and uploaded; he's done a few, including of this game,on Hard5 no less. (He started to upload one for FE12 but sadly the laptop with all the files relating to the run, which he had finished, were stolen a little after he posted the last video from the prologue.)

It's max rank, so it also is max recruitment/no deaths too. The only caveat is it's played on paragon mode which means units get double exp, though in 0% exp that just allows units to promote 'earlier'. Dondon claims this effects no core strategies, just reduces the need for a bit of grinding on enemies that are usually bypassed, and essentially just reduces the amount of time producing attempts he'd loose to bad luck. He explains the details better in the introduction video, which is worth not skipping, at it has alot of technical info in it. It's not a 'babys first FE introduction video.'

If high level FE play is your thing at all its well worth a watch. I mean I'm sure LordHippoman taught the guy everything he knows though.

Paused fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Apr 20, 2017

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

Someone hack the games and just give us a full squad of generics to play with.

NO PORTRAITS RUN.

Paused
Oct 24, 2010
No portraits means no mid blink screen shots. Be careful what you wish for.

Miacis
Oct 9, 2012

Get off my lawn!!
You could do an all-Einherjar run in Awakening. They technically have portraits, but they're about as generic and characterless as can be.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

Miacis posted:

You could do an all-Einherjar run in Awakening. They technically have portraits, but they're about as generic and characterless as can be.

That implies I'd play 13 for gameplay instead of grinding all the chick supports. Its really hard to play 13 for gameplay since all the maps are basically just free for alls.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.



Catria will remember this

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

LordHippoman posted:



I realized I didn’t get Grigas’ boss quote last time. Here it is. Wow!

And it's such a good boss quote, too!

LordHippoman posted:

: With disguises!

: Give that back!

Nooooo let him have the hat, he doesn't have much time left and you can just pick it off his corpse later.

(Jagen Tales remains the best part of the thread.)



Also:



I'd like to point out that Astram's faceless replacement nearly has the same stats as the actual character.

How Rude
Aug 13, 2012


FUCK THIS SHIT
Hell he's better than Astram. +7 HP, +1 speed for -1 str, -1 def and -3 luck

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




For a second I thought there was an edit of Steve minus that one hat entirely for just that joke.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

RareAcumen posted:

For a second I thought there was an edit of Steve minus that one hat entirely for just that joke.

I was legitimately tempted, but it's buried in there pretty well and my cropping skills are iffy at best.


vilkacis posted:


I'd like to point out that Astram's faceless replacement nearly has the same stats as the actual character.

The Generics are like, surprisingly not all complete garbage? Like EclecticTastes mentioned, they'll always have that awful Luck, but it's the least important stat and they can usually hold their own decently for the places they come in.


Camel Pimp posted:



Catria will remember this

:ohdear:

(What's that background from? It looks weirdly familiar.)


Paused posted:

If high level FE play is your thing at all its well worth a watch. I mean I'm sure LordHippoman taught the guy everything he knows though.

I'm afraid I'm the only one who can wield such complex strategies as "Forget The Healer For A Whole Map" or "Leave Wrys In Range Of A Ballista, Again, poo poo", and thus have not tried to teach them.

(On a serious note dondon's videos are rad and I'd highly recommend the Shadow Dragon one.)

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

LordHippoman posted:

The Generics are like, surprisingly not all complete garbage? Like EclecticTastes mentioned, they'll always have that awful Luck, but it's the least important stat and they can usually hold their own decently for the places they come in.

As long as you maintain a high rate of turnover, the generation formula for replacement units will usually churn out half-decent characters, serviceable at whatever they're supposed to be good at, though still nothing compared to the "real" characters beyond a couple of the worst prepromotes (however, even Astram will quickly outshine Nauna). Though, the higher your army's average level goes, the worse the generics get in comparison to what you'd normally expect at that level. Some especially upsetting examples are the axe classes, which never gain a single point beyond their base Defense due to a 0% growth, and Generals proving to be double magnets due to never gaining a single point of Speed. Interestingly, Sages have enough base Strength that never gaining any is fine, as most tomes have WT of 3 or less (the heaviest are only at 4), but Sorcerors have a base of 2, and Bishops only 1, which causes tomes to weigh them right down. Additionally, if they're not a magic-using class, they'll never gain any Resistance. HP and Skill are the only stats that every class has a positive growth rate for.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.
Chapter 17x: Thiefless Speedrun (Prep)

Right. So, this is a pretty quick and simple chapter. If you’ve managed to make it this far, you shouldn’t have any trouble with Helena Palace.

: Lord Dactyl, I’ve brought the mage.

That’s a Sorcerer, but I understand.



Dactyl’s portrait is loving fantastic, by the way. How are all these good portraits trapped in the Gaidens?




: Well, then? Have you been persuaded to fight for us?

: ...Never. I’d rather die.

: You’d rather DIE? Ha! As if a spell-slinging vagabond like you has any choice in the matter! Enough. Strip him of all his possessions and lock him up someplace. Perhaps we can use him later.


: There’s not much to strip him of, milord. Just the tome and this ring…

: Ring? Let me have a look at that.





: O-oi! Take your hands off Lord Dactyl!

: Rrgh...please, not the ring! Give it BACK!

*Implied Action Takes Place, Shame About Those Portrait Limitations*

: Unhand me, you filthy maggot!

: Nngh! ...Unnh…

: Take this wretch away. Now!

: At once, milord!

: Hmph, all that for some tawdry ring. ...Hmm? That gives me an idea...




There’s really nothing interesting I’m doing at the start of this turn except putting Norne in Horseman range to take him out. Parthia lends her some serious power, and that speed is pretty great too.




The enemies on this map really aren’t anything to speak of. Very few promoted foes, and a lot of weak unpromoted ones to serve as experience chaff. At the end of the first turn, a scene triggers.




: Good. I’ve had a change of heart. I am considering giving that ring of yours back.

: …!


: BUT...you must fight the League for us. How much considering I do hinges on how well you fight.

: ...And how am I to fight unarmed, my lord?

MONKS FOR FE15/16 WHATEVER THE ONE AFTER VALENTIA IS

: Hmm? ...Ah. Yes, well, you can have your little book back. But you know what the consequences will be if you betray us...




Etzel enters the bottom of the map. We’ll ignore him for now.




Sedgar doesn’t even need promotion gains to kick rear end.




Marth and a few leftover units are heading to the right side to open the doors here while the rest clear the main path on the left. Just a Chest in this first one.




This area is probably the only one on the map I’d worry about. This hallway is crawling with ranged units, including magic wielders, and a Manakete blocking the exit. Frey should do fine, though.




Now that’s a nice prize.




: To this day I’m not sure how they conquered the continent.

: Grandpa knocked one of them out cold with a loaf of stale bread.




This is more worrying, but nothing Sedgar can’t handle. He also can’t double, but that’s a very minor inconvenience.




This second door seems to just have a dragon in it. What a dick! By the way, if you have both a Master and Door Key in your inventory, it uses the Master. Or maybe it’s just the one on top.




Get outta here.




A wizard! These doors blow!




Even Arran is one rounding these goons.




In a sneaky move, there is a Chest behind the mage, but you have to scroll a bit to the right to see it.




Pretty handy for Barst, especially considering we’ve got Paladins on the horizon.




Now that we’ve mostly cleared the map, it’s time to take a look at Etzel. He’s really not even trying, he won’t move from that spot and will only attack if you wander into his range. Just don’t provoke him.




There are reinforcements, and they’re actually quite a bit more frightening than the enemies we’ve fought so far. The other two have Javelins. Still not huge threats, but not just punching bags.




Horace should be able to bother their advance a bit.




Fed up with waiting for Marth, so Barst is gonna open the door up.




Ah poo poo.




Thankfully, instead of both Bishops going for Caeda (who they could kill), they both went for Barst...who they did not.




Enough of that silliness.




One more locked door on this side. Athena’s running backup here.




We ended up not needing her. I want Merric to get some experience, since he’s got some room before I scrounge up another Seal.




You might notice something about the end of this map. That’s the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a way into this last area. No doors.




This is a rude trick.




As soon as you round the corner, the party reveals itself. Hope you didn’t leave a flier next to that south wall!




We can finally look at Dactyl, and he’s thoroughly...bad.




The mercenaries will rush you, but they aren’t worth worrying about.




Ooh. I guess the Secret Shop isn’t the only place to get this.




: No foe could withstand my magical might!




Another wave of the Paladins shows up on Turn 14, exactly the same as the first one. I’ve got Horace and Norne on it.




Now then, Dactyl.





This has been: Dactyl.




This was a Crit! Good thing it was against Horace!




The penultimate chest has an interesting little reward.




The Wo Dao is basically the Killing Edge, but with More Killing and quite possibly More Edge.




The last treasure’s less interesting, but no less handy.




:toot:




Oh yeah, Malledus still exists, huh?

: This much gold should buy plenty of equipment. Might I suggest, sire, you avail yourself of this opportunity to outfit your soldiers? Our next opponent will be Grust’s Sable Order. By our scouts’ reports, they march to meet us as we speak. Many say their knights are the strongest on the continent. We’ll want to be well prepared.

I’m actually not sure if this gives you gold, or how much. There’s no pop up and I wasn’t wise enough to compare before and after.



: ...Who are you?

: His royal charisma is astounding.

: My name is Etzel. I am a traveling sorcerer. Those Grustian cowards stole a ring from me, and were it not for you, I might never have seen it again.

: The ring must have been very dear to you, then.



His wife, Ursula, not to be confused with the other Fire Emblem Ursula, who is completely unrelated and on a different continent.


: Those were dark days. You have my deepest sympathies; I lost my father in the same battle.

: Will there be no end to this bloodshed?

: There will, Etzel. I have sworn to end it; that’s the very reason all of us fight.



Marth in a nutshell. (Shadow Dragon Marth, at least)

: But I can tell you are sincere. Tell me, Prince, have you any need for an extra…spell slinger? I’ve no taste for war, but I do have a fierce hunger for ending it. Let’s usher in a new era, you and I.

And, with that, Etzel joins the party.




Etzel’s not really great. His growths are decent to subpar, without any major stand outs. His base stats are also a little sketchy, but he does okay, especially on Normal. He’s better in the sequel.

Monocles are kinda cool though so I’m using him.

Bonus Content



Etzel’s Official Art

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
Etzel's the kind of guy you want to like based on his design, but a magic-user that can't double consistently isn't a magic-user worth fielding. Speed is sort of the be-all, end-all stat in Fire Emblem in general, anyone that can't turn that number green by the endgame is just begging for a place on the bench, unless they're a General (and in some games in the series, Generals aren't all that great, the FE1/3 remakes being two of them*).

*Because most of the maps require a lot of movement, Generals end up being a bit of a millstone, forcing you to hang back to let them catch up. It's the same reason Arden and Hannibal in FE4 were only useful for standing on each map's initial castle. Compare with the Radiant games, which often had more compact maps, and had a number of defense objectives, or otherwise encouraged holding your ground rather than advancing, making Generals extremely useful for turning choke points into meat grinders.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

LordHippoman posted:

Bonus Content



Etzel’s Official Art

...Is he wearing a corset or something? It's not even like his whole body shape is feminine leaning (hi Lucius!), the rest of his proportions look fine. It's literally just his waistline.

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014

Etzal feels like a reference to Blazing Sword. He has Canas' monocle, and Nergal's backstory, toned down from 10 to 3.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Cattail Prophet posted:

...Is he wearing a corset or something? It's not even like his whole body shape is feminine leaning (hi Lucius!), the rest of his proportions look fine. It's literally just his waistline.
It's probably a case of how the artist draws "person walking towards the viewer" images.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

LordHippoman posted:

Dactyl’s portrait is loving fantastic, by the way. How are all these good portraits trapped in the Gaidens?

Because those were the only places where intsys would let the remake team have any fun.

LordHippoman posted:

The Wo Dao is basically the Killing Edge, but with More Killing and quite possibly More Edge.

:objection:

The Killing Edge has more attack, so the Wo Dao is a Killing Edge with some of the Edge exchanged for more Killing! :eng101:

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

MightyPretenders posted:

Etzal feels like a reference to Blazing Sword. He has Canas' monocle, and Nergal's backstory, toned down from 10 to 3.

I wish Etzel was as rad as Canas but unfortunately nobody in Archanea has heard of "Luna" yet.


vilkacis posted:

:objection:

The Killing Edge has more attack, so the Wo Dao is a Killing Edge with some of the Edge exchanged for more Killing! :eng101:



It's never specified whether the Killing or Edge contribute to damage, so I assumed they both correlated to Crit Chance.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.
Bonus Chapter 2: Wind and Thunder



: Sir Jagen, I’m having...trouble believing some of your stories.

: Why’s that? You know Etzel, don’t you?

: Yes...but that doesn’t mean anything you said about him was-

: Fine. Have another tale about Sir Etzel! Then you’ll believe me!

: That still doesn’t…

: Quiet, Chris.




We’re heading back into New Mystery for this one. This is the first of the DLC bonus maps, but I’m playing it second. The order doesn’t matter, they aren’t at all related to each other. This takes place between the two games, as they all do.







: Once ruled by the Dark Pontifex Gharnef, these lands were liberated by Marth during the War of Shadows. However, rumors say the Dark Pontifex still holds mysterious rituals in the ruins that litter the surrounding desert. Following the orders of his teacher Wendell, Merric, wind mage of Khadein, leaves to investigate those ruins…




: Elrean…




Elrean doesn’t appear in Shadow Dragon, but he’s one of Merric’s classmates. His specialty is Thoron, which is way lamer than Excalibur.

: However, what is the meaning of this? Didn’t Gharnef die in the previous war?

: True. But according to Master Wendell, Gharnef's subordinates--the heretic bishops-- are on the prowl.




: Linde... Are you fine with coming here? It's dangerous inside. Maybe you'd better return to Princess Nyna...

Rude as hell, Merric.

: We've already talked over this. I'm an experienced mage just like you. And besides... We're friends, right? And friends always help each other.

: Alright. Then I’ll borrow your strength. Thank you, Linde.



: I’m lending you my strength because I owe Khadein, but...this is going to be a difficult battle.

: For a pacifist, he sure seems to end up in battle, like, a lot.

: You speak truly, Sir Etzel. None of us can withstand many enemy attacks. We must proceed with caution.




Heeding Merric’s words will be important...briefly. You’ll see. For now, let’s go over our characters for this map. Elrean (Now officially localized as “Arlen” thanks to the Heroes poll) is a pretty standard Mage. He’s the second beefiest of our units, and 22 is a pretty good ATK score, so he’ll be seeing quite a bit of use. That second item he has, Aries, just passively buffs his Skill and Luck by 1. Hooray?




Merric himself doesn’t have the same punch Elrean does, but he does still have Excalibur. That’s going to be quite helpful.




Linde, unfortunately, is just not that great on this map. She’s still got great attack power thanks to Aura, but she’s slow and made of tissue paper, and one extra damage over Elrean isn’t a great trade off.




Etzel forgot to bring a cool Tome and thus has the lowest damage on the team, despite his high Magic stat, but his Heal staff is super useful, and he’s tanky enough to eat a hit or two where the others can’t.




There are quite a few enemies on the way, most of them of the Hard Hitting variety. Great. The Fire Dragons don’t appear in Shadow Dragon, but they’re pretty much just Manaketes.




There are also a ton of treasures littered around the map to be pilfered, if we can scrounge up the keys.




The actual goal is to lead our gang of mages through this building, out the top entrance, across the courtyard, and into the top left area.




That’s where the boss Heretic Bishop is waiting. But, keep in mind, this is a “Rout Enemy” map, so every enemy must die for a victory.




Time to finally get this show on the road. Elrean is tanking the first hit, because Etzel couldn’t walk that far already.

: Look well, Merric. This is the power of my magic!




Elrean dishes out a lot of damage, but you can see that our team’s defenses are going to be an issue.




With the myrmidon approaching as well, I pivot Elrean around the Barbarian to get in his range for the next attack, and heal him up with Etzel’s staff. It’s a good idea to push into the building quickly so you have some room for an upcoming surprise.




I’m not going to show all the level ups/item drops in the Bonus map, but hey, this is something.




Despite his decent speed, Elrean still gets doubled. He also doesn’t quite kill this guy. Someone at IntSys probably thought this was hilarious.

More importantly, at the end of the second turn, something happens...




Feena’s a dancer, she doesn’t show up in Shadow Dragon. That other guy, however…




Oh, hey, I’ve heard of you.

: Hey, don’t ignore me!

: Woman... I have no time to waste with you. I have to go and save my sister. Dig yourself a hole and hide or whatever takes your fancy.

: W-wait, you don't have to be so mean! Well, I'm grateful because you saved me when those barbarians tried to kidnap me. But, how am I supposed to get back to town if you just leave me here? You're a man, so you have to take responsibility until the very end. If you do, then I'll...



I love that his portrait actually just disappears. :allears:

: Meanie. I bet you've got a terrible relationship with your sister!




Nerve successfully stricken.


: Oh… bull’s eye?

: ...As if. More like you missed the mark completely. But, what gave you the idea?

I really like the mental image of Michalis, usurper king of the Dragon Country, holding a giant lance, sitting on his wyvern and saying “AS IF!”

: Oh, that’s easy. You may be pretty handsome, but you don’t understand a girl’s heart at all. Understand? You know, girls are… Hey, w-wait!




Well, we’ll worry about them later. Linde seems to think she’s that other guy, but I don’t see any Aethers coming from her.





Merric’s battle quote is rather unimpressed. (We’ve already had three screenshots of someone just saying “...”)




So, Feena’s joined the team now, and she’s awful in combat. Anything here well probably kill her in a single round. Don’t let her near any enemies. She does have a talent, though, being a Dancer.



Michalis breaks this map into tiny pieces. Holy poo poo. Almost nothing here can damage him in any significant manner. 20 Defense, 22 Speed, and 33 attack. This is gross.




Feena’s Dance command, while eating up her turn, lets her allow any other unit to move again. I use it to get Michalis in position to lure the two ranged enemies in this area.






Holy poo poo.




Reinforcements arrive immediately though, and this looks bad. Or, at least it does if we don’t consider that Michalis is the human embodiment of a wrecking ball.




After this, Feena just dances for him one square south of his current position.




There, both of the attackers on the left side are done for and Michalis has formed a chokepoint. There’s still a danger to the southwest, though. These weren’t the only Turn 3 reinforcements.




: gently caress

God. Wyverns blow. Wyverns are basically Manaketes with twelve points of movement. And they fly. We won’t see them in Shadow Dragon, but they pop up in this game sometimes. Thankfully, the game has given us a hammer for this terrifying nail.




While I’m waiting for the Wyverns, might as well have a friendly chat.





: ...Is it not obvious? These foes are hardly a match for me.

: That's Elrean for you. This is your first real battle, yet you're as cool as a cucumber. I'm amazed.

: Naturally.

: Khadein spent thousands of gold searching for the rumored source of Elrean’s power, the Smugsphere.

: As if I would falter and commit a mistake in front of you…

: Huh? DId you say something?

: ...No, I did not. It's time we got back to the battle.




Etze’s able to tank the last Sand Clan myrmidon down here, but we’ll have more pressing issues to deal with soon.




Why yes, the Wyverns CAN reach us already.




Linde cleans up the myrmidon while Etzel gets into position for the incoming wyverns. Merric takes the furthest left spot in that attack range, where he can only be hit by one of them. That way I should be able to take them out a little faster.



Uh, Michalis just stands there.



So this is why Merric’s good here. These are flying units, so Excalibur is a one shot kill. Just like in the main game of New Mystery, Merric is a great answer to the wyvern problem.




The other enemies are also starting to move now.




Thankfully, Michalis (and Feena) are pretty much ready to solo the rest of the map.




On his turn, Merric takes a Wyvern down again, leaving only one alive.




Linde and Elrean team up and down it, while blocking the enemy path to the now critically injured wind mage.




Thankfully, forcing these barbarians to split their attentions between Elrean and Etzel keeps everyone alive.




There’s only one enemy left down here, the Fire Dragon. Etzel sets it up…




And also knocks it down, thanks to this random (but appreciated) crit!




The map is over. I know you see enemies, but the map is over.




Thanks for the chest keys.




Please, hold my chest keys.




Alright, back to work.

I wasn’t kidding when I talked about how broken Michalis is here. It’s kinda fun to play with such a powerful unit, but it sorta defeats the purpose of the all-mage challenge map when the super Dracoknight shows up and just starts wrecking poo poo. At least they can still open the chests.




This is okay, I guess. It’s a Vulnerary that heals you to full HP. Cool, but you probably won’t need it on this map.




What’s he even doing here?




: ...The wind mage, is it?

: Why did you come to these ruins…?

: I don’t need to answer.

: Ah, please wait. If you aren’t our enemy, then I wonder if you could help us? If we could fight together…

: I refuse. I'm not like Prince Marth. I don't intend to rely on others. But, indeed... If you don't get in my way, then I suppose I could lend you my strength.

: Feena clearly has a type.

: It’s called “bad taste”, Sir Jagen.

: Naga drat.




Another really cool item that’s...not good on this map? I guess Feena could use it?




The Lady Sword is E rank with major Might and only usable by women. Feena could use it, but Michalis already one rounds everything.




Michalis could use this, but he already one rounds everything.




This is a worse Excalibur. I don’t know why it’s here.




Anyway, the boss.




Well



:toot:



“Definitely us, with no help, just us mages.”

: Merric, look.

: Hmm? This magic circle... Apparently, the heretic bishops were planning to hold some sort of ritual here. Not only that, but this is Gharnef's... forbidden magic...

: Bah, is that all you’ve noticed? Look at this offering and the pattern of the circle... I'm sure Master Wendell has taught you what they mean.

: Ah! I see. This is... Dark magic to raise a dead body back to life... Were the heretic bishops trying to resurrect Gharnef's body?

: What fools. There's no point in resurrecting the body if the soul is no longer here. Although, had they suceeded in this ritual, they might have given birth to a monster taking Gharnef's appearance...

: Indeed. But it seems we managed to avoid that. That’s because we worked together. You too, Elrean.

: ...Hmph. Don't misunderstand. I didn't fight for your sakes or anything.

: I still want to thank you. Because you're helping me. Right now.



Good luck not reading all Elrean’s lines with a British accent now.

: But ever since the War of Shadows ended... You've been acting nuttier than usual. Is it because of Prince Marth?

: You're correct. Ever since I was a child... I wanted to protect those precious to me. I studied hard, here in Khadein, because I really desired that power. However, being together with Prince Marth, and fighting that war by his side... I learned something. That the key to success, more than pursuing power alone... is to join forces with your comrades.

: …

: Elrean, you always rejected me when I asked you to be my friend... But, I hope we'll be able to fight side-by-side again, like we did this time. If we join forces, even Gharnef would be no match for us. That's what I believe.

Him being dead probably helps with that.

: Merric… ...Hmph. I’ll think about it. There might still be enemies hiding. Merric, let’s split up and search around.


: Got it!




: ...Comrades, huh?



Oh no, this again.


: What!? Who’s there…!?

: ...Don't let yourself be deceived. Everyone else is an enemy trying to trick you... Envy, hatred... That's the source of your power... Just as it is mine…

I really like this scene, because, as you learn in FE12, emotions and overstimulating emotions is sorta Gharnef’s gimmick, and it makes him a way cooler villain.


: You...don’t tell me you’re…

: Heh heh heh...





: ...Sir Etzel was barely in that story.

: ...So, I was about to get to the bridge part…

Bonus Content



Successor of the Super Magic, Merric

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AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

This map should probably have been titled "Wind and Thunder (featuring Michalis from the School of gently caress Your Everything)". That said, it's a joy to see that the mighty Michalis is horribly weak to sass.

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