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zedprime posted:There's a pretty obscene degree of stock piling you can do without any major opportunity cost. I balk at the sort of stockpiles and unrestricted production of miscellaneous usables or ploppables no one could use inside of a week of gameplay and try to run things lean but I have come to recognize that in that aspect I am the weirdo. LEAN makes a lot of sense when capital is expensive and materials on the belt are wasted money that degrades over time. In Factorio, there's no degradation and you'll use everything eventually. Capital is also super cheap and a new production line can be duplicated in seconds in the late game. It kinda throws modern manufacturing/supply chain logic out the window.
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Apr 29, 2017 01:56
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Hahahaha, holy poo poo Nuclear is amazing. Finally got around to setting a reactor up. I'm still hand-feeding it, and don't ahve a second one going, but it seems 1 reactor = 4 heat exchangers before adjacency bonuses (that much I knew) and, much to my surprise, 1 heat exchanger = 4 turbines. One reactor has comically dwarfed the output of my entire 15 boiler setup in output without trying.
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Apr 29, 2017 02:07
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FaradayCage posted:Personal roboport seems like it would be hell to charge just relying off personal solar panels and batteries. Can you confirm if that is(n't) the case? Constant building causes problems, yeah. But it hasn't been too bad for me yet, with a suit with 4 batteries, a roboport, night vision and nine portable solar.
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Apr 29, 2017 02:07
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BabelFish posted:I found this on the internet recently as an end-game setup: That is useful, got a string? I have one with no beacons for red belts: Edit: the gently caress do I paste this code without breaking literally all the tables.
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Apr 29, 2017 02:46
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Onean posted:Constant building causes problems, yeah. But it hasn't been too bad for me yet, with a suit with 4 batteries, a roboport, night vision and nine portable solar. I can live with it as opposed to putting down some of the more complex setups repeatedly. I do like the level of progression though as it feels much smoother than previously.
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Apr 29, 2017 02:46
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Onean posted:Constant building causes problems, yeah. But it hasn't been too bad for me yet, with a suit with 4 batteries, a roboport, night vision and nine portable solar. Alright, I'll give it a whirl. I think I'm being stingy because research sucks up a lot more iron than it used to and pre-0.15 I was always skipping modular/panels/batteries because portable fusion was so easy to research. E: Yeah I'm getting by with 1 MkII battery and 6 panels, plus night gogs as a drain too. And laser defense. Batteries are struggling but it doesn't seem to have too bad of an effect on the bots. Also really loving the new personal laser defense. Pretty sure it one-shots medium biters at roughly 3/second. Definitely takes the edge off the flamethrower nerf. FaradayCage fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 02:50
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Nevets posted:I haven't played 0.15 yet, (still screwing around with SeaBlock) but could you run wires to a boiler or a tank you put in between the boilers & turbines and measure the amount of reserve steam in your system? Once you get below 1/4 tank feed a fuel cell to the reactor. Finally got this up and working. I've got it set up to just the inserter, and the inserter set to only operate under 24000 water. It works a lot better and it'll cut down fuel consumption by quite a bit. I recommend it if you're not using the full potential of nuclear to save fuel. The only thing I'd like more is if I could force the inserter to only put one or two cells in, that'd save even more uranium. That's probably getting too greedy, though.
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Apr 29, 2017 03:03
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Oh right. I forgot they fiddled with nightvision. How's that looking now?
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Apr 29, 2017 03:22
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Pretty good! When it gets dark enough, rather than overlaying green over the whole screen it instead desaturates anything that isn't lit up. It's not completely grayscale, there's still some colors, but it works way better than it did before. Plus, the 2x2 rather than 2x3 size is nice as well.
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Apr 29, 2017 03:26
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Onean posted:Finally got this up and working. I've got it set up to just the inserter, and the inserter set to only operate under 24000 water. It works a lot better and it'll cut down fuel consumption by quite a bit. I recommend it if you're not using the full potential of nuclear to save fuel. The only thing I'd like more is if I could force the inserter to only put one or two cells in, that'd save even more uranium. That's probably getting too greedy, though. Does nuclear fuel not burn the same as coal? ie it pauses when no power usage is required, or slowly burns when there's a small energy demand? What's the point in only getting your nuclear station online at certain times when it doesn't actually save fuel?
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Apr 29, 2017 03:28
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KirbyKhan posted:Oh right. I forgot they fiddled with nightvision. How's that looking now? Not the puke green it was last time I played but the whole day/night cycle still seems a mostly pointless pain in the rear end. Also, furnace setup:  This is what I use, pretty sure it's the densest you can get with only a single tile free.
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Apr 29, 2017 03:29
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Loopoo posted:Does nuclear fuel not burn the same as coal? ie it pauses when no power usage is required, or slowly burns when there's a small energy demand? What's the point in only getting your nuclear station online at certain times when it doesn't actually save fuel? From what I can tell, the fuel burns at a constant rate no matter what and produces a certain amount of "heat". If you run at 4 or less heat exchangers (discarding reactor adjacency bonuses) the reactor and any attached exchangers max out at 999.9 C, with the heat exchangers converting water into steam at max efficiency. If you run at less than the max exchangers/turbines you're basically wasting the heat that your fuel is producing. If you're running at more exchangers they're not running at full efficiency. So the downside of nuclear is that you don't get the self-regulating fuel use that you get with normal steam. It's very much "always on" and burning the same amount of fuel unless you mix it with circuitry. ...Though I do wonder how much power use/# of heat exchangers does affect how fast a cold reactor loses temperature. Anyways, I found a deposit large enough for 8 mines packed in tight (the one you get on the goon island map string if you go with default resources) was more than enough to fuel a single turbine without any refinement. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 03:42
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Onean posted:Finally got this up and working. I've got it set up to just the inserter, and the inserter set to only operate under 24000 water. It works a lot better and it'll cut down fuel consumption by quite a bit. I recommend it if you're not using the full potential of nuclear to save fuel. The only thing I'd like more is if I could force the inserter to only put one or two cells in, that'd save even more uranium. That's probably getting too greedy, though. Uranium fuel cells only start off feeling rare. After you get the reactor up to temp and humming along you should be finding more u235 than you are burning provided you run at least 3-4 centrifuges. Plus, with power no longer being a concern throw some modules on them as well. Remember each piece of U235 turns into 10 cells @ 8Gj a piece. 80Gj per u235 vs 8Mj per piece of coal.
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Apr 29, 2017 03:47
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Retro42 posted:Uranium fuel cells only start off feeling rare. After you get the reactor up to temp and humming along you should be finding more u235 than you are burning provided you run at least 3-4 centrifuges. Plus, with power no longer being a concern throw some modules on them as well. Of course, it takes 20 pieces of uranium, which each take 10 pieces of ore, to make 10 cells. So that's 200 ore/1 cell, discounting all the trash 238 you get before you reach Kovarex. They're still hilariously powerful and that poo poo only sounds expensive until you get stuff up and running. So the advantages/disadvantages for each power source are: Steam: +Cheap to set up (it's your first power) +Easy to expand +Fuel burn rate depends on power grid consumption -requires nearby water and coal access Solar: +No "fuel" required +No pollution -Requires accumulators to fully power your base 24/7 -Requires a fuckton of space. Nuclear: +FUCKTON of power +Gets more efficient with adjacent reactors -Requires a lot of investment, technology and support network -"Always on" burns fuel constantly Alkydere fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 03:54
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Tanker trucks make uranium trains totally viable too. I've got one that ships out with sulfuric acid and tops off the onsite tanks and loads up on ore for the return trip. With rail world settings that uranium field(1.1mil) is going to last me FOREVER too. Offloads to a bank of modded up centrifuges. I use circuits to make sure I keep at least some raw u235 on hand for when kovarex enrichment is available. And to echo the earlier point. It's VERY much worth getting at least 2 or more reactors for the bonus. The efficiency bonus pushes you from a fuckton of power to flat out obscene amounts of power.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:16
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Another lovely mod release: Long Inserters! Long-handed versions of all the basic types, except burner because gently caress those guys.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:23
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If you're concerned about wasting your uranium you could always build a couple of fuel cells worth of accumulators, then set up a circuit network to only insert fuel cells in your reactors when the accumulators are nearly empty. One fuel cell is 1600 accumulators' worth of charge* and I doubt it's worth spending that much stuff on accumulators for better uranium efficiency when uranium isn't that uncommon, but you can. E: *at 1x efficiency, with adjacency bonuses you presumably get more.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:25
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Retro42 posted:Uranium fuel cells only start off feeling rare. After you get the reactor up to temp and humming along you should be finding more u235 than you are burning provided you run at least 3-4 centrifuges. Plus, with power no longer being a concern throw some modules on them as well. Oh, I'm sure. I just want to make sure I've got that 40 235 by the time I research Kovarex.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:40
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I love that it's called the Kovarex enrichment process. Much like this loving crack game. It's 6am again. Good night.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:42
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Truga posted:I love that it's called the Kovarex enrichment process. Hey, the Dev designed the process, he gets to name it after himself  Besides, something like 90% of the playerbase won't realize "Kovarex" is the name of one of the devs.
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Apr 29, 2017 04:50
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I am thinking about reworking the fuel cycle. Thoughts so far: Spent fuel yields a new item, plutonium - this is used for nuclear weapons Plutonium can be combined with U-238 to make fuel (psuedo-MOX, replaces Kovarex process) One reactor can make more plutonium than it needs to replenish its fuel from U-238, so some other process would be needed to allow for no-residue fuel cycles with automation, maybe an option to craft fuel cells directly from Pu Not sure what else yet. Thoughts?
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Apr 29, 2017 05:07
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Alkydere posted:Hey, the Dev designed the process, he gets to name it after himself I wound up googling this. Thought maybe it was named after a Polish physicist or something I messed around with this game a little bit before but never got far. Looks like I got re-interested at the perfect time! Got trains running for the first time, bots for the first time, even messing with the circuit logic. I felt so proud that I realized my solution to having brownouts that crashed my power grid, killing my coal miners, then leading to blackouts was: - isolate the power plant and supplying coal mines on their own grid - set up a power switch connected to the external grid, green wire linked to a battery bank making it switch off at < 20% power "Just build a bunch more reactors," you say. Well, yes, and I did. But I really enjoyed designing a failsafe  and also the seizure-inducing flicker when it trips serves as an early warning if I'm approaching my capacity.Gearing up for nuclear, planning on setting up a control system using a steam tank battery as an energy storage medium instead of accumulators.
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Apr 29, 2017 06:21
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Loopoo posted:God I haven't played Factorio in so long, all my builds are absolute garbage. It's a mix between neat, organised bus system, and messy, spaghetti awfulness. It's like it manages to be both, but neither one at the same time. You set up the road between your bus and the assembler branches, group your assemblers by the types of inputs they'll need, and design them in long 'stacks' by laying out max-length underground belt runs. This leaves enough space for an assembler and a line of inserters pointing. Outputs can go on one of the underground belts, or if you're feeding 3+ ingredients off to the side. Either way they get belted back to the edge of the road where they get stacked up in chests. Note you're going to need to leave space between the assemblers and road in order to use belt magic to split up/integrate feeds, this approach really slashes belt spaghetti but doesn't eliminate it, instead compressing most of it down into this area as single-item feeds from the bus are split to feed multiple stacks. I wind up hand-designing the majority of this as production expands while robots take care of laying out all of the regular stuff, because belts are rad as gently caress.
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Apr 29, 2017 06:23
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DelphiAegis posted:That is useful, got a string? use notepad, turn off word-wrap and put line breaks in manually KirbyKhan posted:Oh right. I forgot they fiddled with nightvision. How's that looking now? sexy
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Apr 29, 2017 06:56
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Loopoo posted:God I haven't played Factorio in so long, all my builds are absolute garbage. It's a mix between neat, organised bus system, and messy, spaghetti awfulness. It's like it manages to be both, but neither one at the same time. I honestly think that's part of the replay value. "Gosh I haven't Factorio'd in awhile" "Heh, yeah I remember red science. The Dane Cook of the sciences." "Oh right, green science. No sweat though, just a reroute here." "Huh, the biters are getting antsy. Why haven't I automated turrets yet?" "Okay, duct-taped turrets and ammo into a temporary spur off the main line" "Whoops, entire factory shut down. To the emergency coal box!" "Okay, I get why I automated green cards before the belt array...but why did I never make the belt array?" "Where are walls, HAVE I NOT SET UP A WALL FACTORY YET?" "WHERE IS MY UTILITY ITEM SPUR?!?" "I HATE THIS FACTORY!" "I'M MAKING A NEW AND BETTER ONE!" "And this time...I will only be half as short-sighted."
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Apr 29, 2017 07:11
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metasynthetic posted:I wound up googling this. Thought maybe it was named after a Polish physicist or something I absolutely love burner mining coal. The coal mines itself!
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Apr 29, 2017 07:50
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Dirk the Average posted:LEAN makes a lot of sense when capital is expensive and materials on the belt are wasted money that degrades over time. In Factorio, there's no degradation and you'll use everything eventually. Capital is also super cheap and a new production line can be duplicated in seconds in the late game. It kinda throws modern manufacturing/supply chain logic out the window. I find Lean aesthetically pleasing, so I default to it, but I start a game by building a small spaghettified bootstrapper factory which is churning out and stockpiling everything you might need pre-oil like inserters, fast belts and red and green science. Then after that one's done I start using all of that crap to build actually lean factories to get more complicated crap done and over time the bootstrapper base gets refashioned into a plate or green chip factory or whatever. I think this is what KatherineofSky calls "the mall."
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Apr 29, 2017 09:01
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Updated Flare Stack to 0.15. As of this release, all fluids can now be flared/vented, the only difference is cosmetic. Yes, this means if you really want to, you can flare off water. Defining lists of acceptable fluids was way too fiddly, and considering that the purpose of the mod is to streamline bullshit production chains, felt like a waste of time.
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Apr 29, 2017 11:26
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Dirk the Average posted:LEAN makes a lot of sense when capital is expensive and materials on the belt are wasted money that degrades over time. In Factorio, there's no degradation and you'll use everything eventually. Capital is also super cheap and a new production line can be duplicated in seconds in the late game. It kinda throws modern manufacturing/supply chain logic out the window. Lean does shake out a lot of useful stuff and is why I never shut up about production control. Over processing waste seems incredibly common and the difference between running around finding resource patches constantly and getting to the rocket sometime sooner than never. A lot of the actually useful circuit stuff is straight out of visual factory principles too.
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Apr 29, 2017 12:54
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BabelFish posted:This is the one I use. Once you get steel furnaces in it, the underground belts allow you to fully saturate the output line. How do the underground belts help here? I'm not very good at this game.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:20
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Jack the Lad posted:How do the underground belts help here? I'm not very good at this game. Inserters struggle with loading on belts with small gaps, which means that you will not 100% saturate when loading directly onto a belt. Loading to underground belts bypasses this.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:37
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fezball posted:Inserters struggle with loading on belts with small gaps, which means that you will not 100% saturate when loading directly onto a belt. Loading to underground belts bypasses this. Ah, cool. I don't quite understand which way they're facing, though - it seems like some are going in opposite directions.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:44
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Jack the Lad posted:Ah, cool. All of them go to the right - the lines on the underground belt always point in the direction of movement.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:46
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fezball posted:All of them go to the right - the lines on the underground belt always point in the direction of movement. I guess maybe it's just the first one? It works when I replace it with a belt going upwards in this example, but the underground belt doesn't work either way around:  Where can I find ratios for ore belts to smelters to output belts etc? Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 13:47
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.15 is loving fantastic im gettin mah sperg on and i don't even need to jab angels and bobs into my veins
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Apr 29, 2017 14:35
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Baloogan posted:.15 is loving fantastic The new recipes for science past green do an amazing amount to add complexity to bases. Before it was basically "Eh, a fancier inserter and some red cards" for blue, now its "Red cards plus an engine plus an assembler" which adds a bunch of complexity to the process. Requiring "end" products, instead of just more middle-tier stuff, also acts as an amazing way for the devs to say "Hey, the game is about automating everything, not just circuits and gears."
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Apr 29, 2017 14:41
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factorissimo 2 is also fantastic i got an airplane mod too automating cargo planes instead of trains :3
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Apr 29, 2017 14:43
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How many items do inserters move per second? An assembler belts for green science uses 2 gears and 2 plates per second. One assembler making gears makes 2 gears per second, which is great, but that requires 4 plates per second. How many inserters are needed to put 4 plates per second into an assembler? e: Wait, the crafting times aren't in seconds? This 0.5 crafting time gears machine is taking like ~3 seconds per craft. I don't understand this at all. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 14:56
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Baloogan posted:factorissimo 2 is also fantastic Which mod adds cargo planes? That sounds cool.
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Apr 29, 2017 15:05
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Whiirrr posted:Which mod adds cargo planes? That sounds cool. AAI, get all the mods from that guy because he doesn't say it anywhere but u need em all (which is retarded, just fuckin make one mod dude)
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Apr 29, 2017 15:07
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