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Alexander DeLarge posted:If you got the $400 pledge with the lifetime subscription you wouldn't have to worry about that. when has any MMO had a lifetime subscription and lasted longer than the subscription was worth though? never mind the near certainty it'll go F2P you're better than lethality, don't stoop to his level of spending big people money on dead-before-arrival games
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# ? May 3, 2017 11:05 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:28 |
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Good Dumplings posted:when has any MMO had a lifetime subscription and lasted longer than the subscription was worth though? never mind the near certainty it'll go F2P Does Star Trek Online count?
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# ? May 3, 2017 11:08 |
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Alexander DeLarge posted:If you got the $400 pledge with the lifetime subscription you wouldn't have to worry about that. holy motherfuckin poo poo, is that a thing? imagine the horror and turmoil once this becomes FTP in like 3 months after they officially release it off topic: theres this thing called revelation online with flying anime toons. installing atm Mr. Pickles fucked around with this message at 11:23 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 11:13 |
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8-bit Miniboss posted:Does Star Trek Online count? does it still do subscription only or is there some kind of plex/F2P system? I don't recall it being pure subscription like for this $400 cash fire to be worth it the game would have to be subscription-only for 2.5 years, no plex and no free mode. and assuming you would've subscribed that whole time, since some goons just sub/unsub when they want to take a break from a game Mr. Pickles posted:holy motherfuckin poo poo, is that a thing? imagine the horror and turmoil once this becomes FTP in like 3 months after they officially release it it's been a thing for the past 10 years or so yeah, most games expecting to fold/go free in like a year do lifetime subscriptions. also :h5:, RO is p. cool outside of the horrifying endgame grind Good Dumplings fucked around with this message at 11:20 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 11:14 |
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Good Dumplings posted:when has any MMO had a lifetime subscription and lasted longer than the subscription was worth though? afaik the lotro lifetime subs are still getting value for their money, and will continue to do so for a good long while. that one may be "f2p" now but in reality its still a sub game, if not one with mandatory not-so-micro transactions
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# ? May 3, 2017 11:24 |
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Good Dumplings posted:does it still do subscription only or is there some kind of plex/F2P system? I don't recall it being pure subscription Well I did the math really quick, STO was released in February 2010. If you ordered the lifetime sub when it was discounted at $249.99 you had 17 months to enjoy the full length of the costs of regular sub of $14.95 a month. July 2011 is the point the lifetime sub paid for itself. It didn't hit F2P until January 2012.
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# ? May 3, 2017 11:37 |
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8-bit Miniboss posted:Well I did the math really quick, STO was released in February 2010. If you ordered the lifetime sub when it was discounted at $249.99 you had 17 months to enjoy the full length of the costs of regular sub of $14.95 a month. July 2011 is the point the lifetime sub paid for itself. It didn't hit F2P until January 2012. those are really bad odds but they're nonzero, so I'll take it Alex please tell me there's no larger tiers. failing that please tell me you're not going to spend more than $400 on a MMO kickstarter by a known pyramid schemer
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# ? May 3, 2017 11:50 |
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If noted heralds of ruin like Alexander and Lethality weren't enough to convince you that this is a great investment, knowing that the CEO is literally a MLM scammer will. Also the staff being composed of nothing but artists and designers from a failed MMO that died before its first trimester. Also that they are loving lacking a massive number of programmers, both from a gameplay and networking perspective. Its foolproof. Give them all your money!
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# ? May 3, 2017 13:15 |
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Holy poo poo its like designing 101 Designer "Lets do this and this and that! Its going to be great!" Artist "I can picture it now, its going to be great! Look how awesome it'll look!" Engineer/Programmer "Holy poo poo you guys hold on what you are asking for is impossible!" Good CEO/PM "OK, lets tone things down a little before we let PR get a hold of it. Cant let expectations get out of control" Bad CEO/PM "No business in selling reality, we selling dreams. Go hog wild!"
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# ? May 3, 2017 13:29 |
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The biggest red flag with this is that UE4 is an engine ->>not built by default for mmo-scale things<<- It requires: 1. Rewrite of client netcode interfaces to phase characters in/out in an mmo context, instead of loading ALL things on game load 2. Custom server (the default UE4 server even in-cluster has trouble with > 200 clients), since the precision is so high because it's made for shooter games, not cell-movement MMOs. 3. Rewrite of client level streaming and coordinate system to allow for less precision and more space. You need SE for these things if you want them to not gently caress up in an MMO context. Blade & Soul was UE3, and they just said gently caress it we're instancing every map with zone loads, and running several "channels" aka servers to handle it. This is gonna be a train wreck and I can't wait! e: Source, I'm an ECPE, and have been working with UE4 for 2 years, and am pretty drat familiar with the internals FireWhizzle fucked around with this message at 14:55 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 14:43 |
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they could go full excuse the tech jargon
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# ? May 3, 2017 14:55 |
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Mr. Pickles posted:they could go full The UE4 client is good for an MMO, don't get me wrong, but you have to rip out the netcode that was designed for a shooter game
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# ? May 3, 2017 14:59 |
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this should be on the top of their to-do list :PGood Dumplings posted::h5:, RO is p. cool outside of the horrifying endgame grind if the flight model is anything like the archeage glider gameplay, this should be fun Mr. Pickles fucked around with this message at 15:07 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 15:03 |
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Mr. Pickles posted:this should be on the top of their to-do list :P In an MMO context, the first thing you should be doing - and this is touted repeatedly by every successful MMO team ever in their dev blogs: write a hurricane proof server architecture and netcode suite The netcode / server arch is the foundation upon which you build your MMO house. If the foundation sucks, the whole McMansion, though flashy, will just crumble
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:05 |
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well I don't follow devblogs but what you are saying is 20/20 i m just over here laughing at this kickstarter
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:09 |
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I see three problems: 1) There isn't really anything new or novel this game is doing to make it stand point from a number of poop tier MMO startups. The classes are generic, the ideas are pretty generic, I don't really see a "hook" 2) "Flagging" PVP is just PVE. The incentives to PVP have to be absolutely overwhelming or 99% of players will avoid it. You have to force people into conflict against their will, al-la ArcheAge oceans by really using a carrot on the stick. Otherwise people will just choose safety. This is a prime reason why PVP in Black Desert fails. 3) UE4, as FireWhizzle has already pointed out, is really really good for making games pretty, but really bad for supporting large numbers of players in the same area. The alternative is heavy instancing, which makes MMOs intrinsically flawed and bad, or switching to a different engine. Gutting the netcode with such a small team and small budget is unlikely. Having said that, it's a serious MMO famine atm so I will follow it anyway
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:11 |
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Alexander DeLarge posted:If you got the $400 pledge with the lifetime subscription you wouldn't have to worry about that. Don't worry my man I am not worried about it.
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:11 |
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FireWhizzle posted:In an MMO context, the first thing you should be doing - and this is touted repeatedly by every successful MMO team ever in their dev blogs: I agree whole-heartedly with this, and I believe this is one of the things that actually has kept World of Warcraft popular for so long. Its netcode is pretty good in just about any environment. Playing on low ping? High ping? loving dial up? You're mostly fine (except for capital cities on dial up, I guess). They even have movement partially clientside somehow without speed hacks being an issue, so you don't get jittery lag-step animations like most MMOs, everything stays fluid on your screen so you don't really notice it unless you have like a full second of lag. It makes it just "feel" better than most MMOs, even though it is old as poo poo at this point.
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:12 |
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Oops
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:13 |
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Zaodai posted:I agree whole-heartedly with this, and I believe this is one of the things that actually has kept World of Warcraft popular for so long. Its netcode is pretty good in just about any environment. Playing on low ping? High ping? loving dial up? You're mostly fine (except for capital cities on dial up, I guess). They even have movement partially clientside somehow without speed hacks being an issue, so you don't get jittery lag-step animations like most MMOs, everything stays fluid on your screen so you don't really notice it unless you have like a full second of lag. This also translates into PVE and PVP as well: I stand by the opinion that after being out for 14 years, WoW still has some of the most fluid combat animations I've ever seen in an MMO. It makes it a joy to play, visually.
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:15 |
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Zaodai posted:It makes it just "feel" better than most MMOs, even though it is old as poo poo at this point. in the mmo genre is seems there were ever only2 options to choose from: wow themepark or eve sandbox excluding everyones nostalgia weakspot of course, be it UO, MUDs or whatever
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:18 |
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Mr. Pickles posted:in the mmo genre is seems there were ever only2 options to choose from: wow themepark or eve sandbox No. Pre-CU SWG was a diamond in the rough, and there was nothing like it out there. And there hasn't been since.
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:26 |
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u know I'm right :P Eve seemed more appealing to me at the time so I didn't play SWG (i dont care for the franchise that much). I remember people comparing matrix online with the good old SWG quite favorably though, perhaps that title was the only one to ever come close
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:43 |
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The Matrix Online was a hilarious shitheap. I don't know how anyone played that on release. Then again, I didn't play SWG, so if there was a favorable comparison I wouldn't know it.
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# ? May 3, 2017 15:52 |
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My entire experience with The Matrix Online was travelling on the subway in game with my then college roommate, trying to find the best combination of sunglasses versus leather trenchcoat. I'm not sure if there was an actual game beyond that.
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:01 |
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On release, the combat was this weird turn based rock-paper-scissors system. Not an abstracted one like the weapon triangle from Fire Emblem or something, but actual Rock Paper Scissors against the various enemies. I think it went standard tab-targeted later? I couldn't really get into it. It was cool as a premise but it felt very much like a mid 90's MMO.
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:04 |
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I think the Matrix Online was from the era of EQ engine McMMOs from SOE. Essentially they took the EQ engine and modded it for all their games and just kept printing hoping one would stick. SWG iirc was partially an EQ McMMO with heavy modding. I haven't ripped up SWG's game files so idk Zaodai posted:I agree whole-heartedly with this, and I believe this is one of the things that actually has kept World of Warcraft popular for so long. Its netcode is pretty good in just about any environment. Playing on low ping? High ping? loving dial up? You're mostly fine (except for capital cities on dial up, I guess). They even have movement partially clientside somehow without speed hacks being an issue, so you don't get jittery lag-step animations like most MMOs, everything stays fluid on your screen so you don't really notice it unless you have like a full second of lag. So WoW is in it's own special realm here to be fair. WoW is one of the few client-trusted MMOs, but they have a really loving good warden subprogram to track sketchy activity, and a warden on the server side that scans user data for things that look out of whack. They are able to do this for a few reasons, primarily that trusting a client in WoW, then having that client do something bad can't really permanently gently caress up the game, since the game is designed in a certain way. That and they have very good tools for tracing/removing illicit game states. Other online games that have much more at stake - e.g. BDO, can't really do this because of the node-war/crystal destroy system to name a few. Thus, BDO had issues with it's double-handshake-ball-tug-reacharound secure netcode at first, essentially DDOSing themselves into the ground before removing some of the constant updates like karma pings. In fact, here is blizzard watching the state of the servers at all times. I guarantee there is a set of these with a maintenance-QA staff approving autoban requests: FireWhizzle fucked around with this message at 16:27 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 16:15 |
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Bookmarking a kickstarter trainwreck thread. Maximum lols if you gave these people money.
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:34 |
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FireWhizzle posted:I think the Matrix Online was from the era of EQ engine McMMOs from SOE. Yeah, but it was in that realm on its own over a decade ago. Other people could approximate their system. They're not running lost tech from the Dark Age of Technology. It would be more expensive, of that I have no doubt. But it contributes to one of the reasons there hasn't been a true "WoW-killer" despite all the new MMOs that have puffed out their chest and made that claim before being kicked off a bridge. I've played WoW since Vanilla Beta, and I can recall precisely one time I've seen a hacker first hand. And he mysteriously disappeared (I am assuming banned, but cannot confirm) within like two hours, for using a speed hack on his priest in battlegrounds. It's not that people couldn't make an MMO that truly surpasses WoW. It's that everybody wants to do it on the cheap. That's why I laugh at this game for having a paltry $750k as their funding goal. A $750k MMO is going to be poo poo. There are bootleg chinese knockoff MMOs with bigger budgets than that.
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:47 |
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New Thread Title: Ashes of Creation - $750k Dollar Menu McMMO FOR LIMITED TIME ONLY!!!
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:49 |
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FireWhizzle posted:The biggest red flag with this is that UE4 is an engine ->>not built by default for mmo-scale things<<-
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# ? May 3, 2017 16:54 |
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big nipples big life posted:Bookmarking a kickstarter trainwreck thread. $750K and rising of money that fools deserve to be parted from.
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# ? May 3, 2017 18:38 |
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Kickstarter Campaign posted:Ashes of Creation Kickstarter FAQ posted:How can you build an MMO for $750k!? Ashes of Creation Official Site FAQ posted:Does the Unreal Engine work well with large scale users and MMOs? Steven_AoC posted:Hey guys! I have read some of the posts about our referral program, as well as concern over my income from Multi-Level Marketing. I am personally one who strongly believes in transparency and want to be as involved in the community as possible! So I will give some input to this discussion. When I was 15 I started a Marketing business, trying to sell nutritional drinks using commercials on AM talk radio stations. This became very successful very quick, and when I turned 18 I decided to start working for a company called XanGo. I wasn't the "CEO" of XanGo as some people are saying, nor did I help create the company... I was just a normal sign up, and I created a website that, I used my marketing company to help promote and sell their juice and vitamins with.. By the time I was 20, I was selling a lot of the juice and vitamins, and rose to be one of the top sellers of the company. About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success. Many people consider the MLM industry to be a pyramid scheme, but there are actually good MLMs out there, that can provide people with good incomes. I was lucky to find a good one that had great products, and that allowed me at a young age to become successful enough to begin investing and buying real estate. Mirificus fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 20:37 |
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Mirificus posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios/description Hahaha holy poo poo, no wonder I saw so many referral links in the Kickstarter comments.
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# ? May 3, 2017 21:53 |
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So they'll pay you at some point in the future. Also if your referrals get enough people you get paid 0 dollars. Also they totally won't pretend that all your referrals signed up a bunch of people as a way to not pay you. You'll definitely be able to track how many referrals your OWN referrals signed up to make sure this isn't happening.
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# ? May 3, 2017 21:58 |
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Ashes of Creation: The Team posted:Jeffrey Bard – Lead Game Designer Mirificus fucked around with this message at 22:10 on May 3, 2017 |
# ? May 3, 2017 22:04 |
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1 network engineer is the price for my 200bux *sneers scrooge-mcduckly*
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# ? May 3, 2017 22:24 |
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*sets a milkcrate down and squats on it* *warms hands over the tire fire*
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# ? May 3, 2017 22:49 |
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There are true believers on their forums with great quotes like this:quote:Good lord, is this nonsense still going on? This is a reply to people continuing to ask where the engineers and programmers are on their team.
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# ? May 3, 2017 23:36 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:28 |
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Ignorance is bliss, right up until you realize the house you're in is actually on fire like everybody was saying.
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# ? May 3, 2017 23:36 |