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Argenport Midrange also plays Impending Doom, that and Stonescar are the main decks that I play it I think. I don't see it much in Xenan.
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May 5, 2017 14:28
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Don't play Impending Doom in the same deck as darude since you don't want it locked down on the ground. Slots really nicely in Stonescar Midrange, you can go burn heavy or creature/removal heavy.
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May 5, 2017 14:30
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Ledgem posted:Can someone explain to me what the gently caress is wrong with eternal draft? or any of the drat RNG in this game. It really does seem like there's something off; I just had another draft where I went 0/3 with a pretty fine deck because I got mana screwed or mana flooded every game.
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May 6, 2017 10:13
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It really does seem like there's something off; I just had another draft where I went 0/3 with a pretty fine deck because I got mana screwed or mana flooded every game. Confirmation bias and all, I feel like you get screwed/flooded way harder in this than in Magic but I don't know why. It might be something with the pacing of the game.
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May 6, 2017 11:39
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The Wu-Tang Secret posted:By a stroke of luck, I've managed to get a playset of Impending Dooms solely from opening packs. Is there any particular deck I should be building toward with these? I've been rolling with a deck I titled "Generic Stonescar Aggro" because I also just happened to have a full playset of Pyroknights as well, and it's better than my other garbage decks, but not mind-blowingly so. Maybe I'm just saying that because 50% of the time I end up playing against Feln/Felnscar decks that draw three Permafrosts by turn 4. I also have one Sandstorm Titan, so I guess I could head in the Xenan direction as well. Xenan is a fun deck for Impending Dooms. Dark Returning robots is totally filthy and would be totes great if not for how common silences are.
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May 6, 2017 12:00
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Man we need a new set so there's discussion besides people who don't know how to shuffle a deck crying about getting flooded/ screwed. The main problem is there's no sinks for extra power. Magic has activated abilities that you can dump your extra mana into so that you're still doing something on turn 9, whereas in Eternal there's only like, three that are common or uncommon?
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May 6, 2017 14:39
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There's also Flame Blast, and empower abilities also let you do meaningful stuff with extra power.
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May 6, 2017 15:26
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Jabor posted:There's also Flame Blast, and empower abilities also let you do meaningful stuff with extra power. Okay that brings us up to 4, I think. Xenan Guardian Valkyrie Aspirant (borderline unplayable) Borderlands Waykeeper Flame Blast Blind Storyteller is a power sink but it's not that great either. There's about a dozen more at Rare and Legendary but that's far less helpful in draft.
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May 6, 2017 15:35
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Basically, Eternal needs cycling. Cycling power, cycling high-cost dorks, cycling attachment removal, cycling weapons, cycling everything.
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May 6, 2017 17:33
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Cycling attachment removal would be nice. Attachments feel way too strong for how hard they are to remove. But attachment removal is useless against half the decks out there.
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May 6, 2017 20:46
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we need ancient grudge
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May 6, 2017 20:51
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If there was a 3/3 flyer for 3 that incidentally removed attachments (like, Furnace Mage but with a not-embarrassing body for the cost), it'd be fine. This first set has had pushed silences and toned-down attachment removal. That'll change up in the second set, presumably. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when they decide to start rotating things out of the card pool. The free-to-play model has been awesome so far, so hopefully it doesn't end up being a horrendous treadmill to keep up with things.
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May 7, 2017 06:38
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They see use in Stonescar Burn decks, which is a kind of aggro that uses big spells as a finisher.
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May 7, 2017 07:37
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I made a bad Gauntlet deck. 
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May 7, 2017 14:48
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Lone Goat posted:The main problem is there's no sinks for extra power. Magic has activated abilities that you can dump your extra mana into so that you're still doing something on turn 9, whereas in Eternal there's only like, three that are common or uncommon? The Spoils and Infinity Wars just had built-in activated abilities that anyone could use. Like 5: draw a card, 4: gain a resource, 3: cycle. Really helped with the lategame draw-play mana-pass turns that Eternal feels really prone to.
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May 8, 2017 17:22
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Just had yet another draft go 1/3 because only in one of the games was I allowed to have a curve. the others I just sat on 12 mana drawing more while the enemy drew creatures every turn. Every time. It's like clockwork. I'm going to stream my next one cause this is absurd. The streamer I watch had the same thing happen to him like 4 drafts in a row basically too. I honestly need someone to explain to me how this isn't an actual problem and how those who make it to masters in draft do so besides just using money to draft frequently enough to beat the odds somehow.
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May 8, 2017 18:13
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You realize this is straight-up insanity, yes? Math is math. The shuffler isn't somehow busted or magically stacking lands to the top of your deck.
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May 8, 2017 18:15
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Randomizing technology isn't always perfect and shuffling in literally every other card game or program I have ever played has been far more consistent in keeping things random, as opposed to what eternal has been doing to me. And I'm not exactly alone either; it seems to be annoying the hell out of a bunch of people within this thread and across the internet.
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May 8, 2017 18:40
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Ledgem posted:Randomizing technology isn't always perfect and shuffling in literally every other card game or program I have ever played has been far more consistent in keeping things random, as opposed to what eternal has been doing to me. And I'm not exactly alone either; it seems to be annoying the hell out of a bunch of people within this thread and across the internet. What makes you think it ISN'T random? Making a shuffler random is probably the easiest thing in the universe.
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May 8, 2017 18:46
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Randomizing poo poo is super easy to do. I can almost 100% guarantee that is not the problem. It's just confirmation bias. You can argue whether or not the mana/screw problem is a good game mechanic in general but the game engine is certainly not actively trying to screw you. You actually sound like a crazy person if you think the game is somehow not randomizing properly.
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May 8, 2017 18:50
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ShaneB posted:What makes you think it ISN'T random? Making a shuffler random is probably the easiest thing in the universe. The part where it has consistently done the same thing over and over rather than actually be random. Not to mention how they do opening hands might affect it, and my experience playing a tonne of other card games virtually has shown eternal to be the only one where I can't actually play the drat game the majority of the time. And then it happening to others as well, showing that it isn't as likely that it's merely extremely terrible luck on solely my part. That is what makes me think it isn't fully random.
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May 8, 2017 18:51
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Ledgem posted:. And then it happening to others as well, showing that it isn't as likely that it's merely extremely terrible luck on solely my part. That is what makes me think it isn't fully random. Confirmation. Bias. I've played hundreds and hundreds of games of eternal over many months. It's fine.
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May 8, 2017 18:58
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We'll see how fine it is when this game continues to dwindle if these issues aren't addressed. Maybe it's just confirmation bias on your part that the game is fine? I've never seen anyone complain so much about flooding in this game, especially those coming from magic.
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May 8, 2017 19:00
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bamhand posted:Randomizing poo poo is super easy to do. I can almost 100% guarantee that is not the problem. It's just confirmation bias. You can argue whether or not the mana/screw problem is a good game mechanic in general but the game engine is certainly not actively trying to screw you. You actually sound like a crazy person if you think the game is somehow not randomizing properly. Plenty of digital card games have hosed up their randomisation (one that springs to mind: Star Realms's digital version made Blue cards come up in the market row about twice as often as they should have), it's not exactly unheard of. Given that the Mulligan system is more complicated than "Shuffle deck, draw top x cards" it's entirely possible that it's screwing up the distribution somehow. Of course the best way to settle this is to run a proper analysis on it; I've already been recording the % flood/screw in my games and will keep on recording them. I'll do a quick hypothesis test when I have more data.
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May 8, 2017 19:22
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Plenty of digital card games have hosed up their randomisation (one that springs to mind: Star Realms's digital version made Blue cards come up in the market row about twice as often as they should have), it's not exactly unheard of. Given that the Mulligan system is more complicated than "Shuffle deck, draw top x cards" it's entirely possible that it's screwing up the distribution somehow. Is there a way I could do this myself as well? I do apologize for being aggressively insane about it I just can't comprehend how it keeps happening. I haven't had a draft go past 3 wins since january where games felt normal and I was doing well as often as I was losing, and it's always been due to flood. Even constructed games have been having this problem so I've reduced my decks to minimum land and STILL get flooded, rarely screwed. The fact that it happens to others and my knowledge that it is possible for digital randomization to not function properly doesn't help.
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May 8, 2017 19:30
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Plenty of digital card games have hosed up their randomisation (one that springs to mind: Star Realms's digital version made Blue cards come up in the market row about twice as often as they should have), it's not exactly unheard of. Given that the Mulligan system is more complicated than "Shuffle deck, draw top x cards" it's entirely possible that it's screwing up the distribution somehow. Initial draw/mulligan aside the randomization process should be really straight forward though. You'd have to go out of your way to gently caress it up.
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May 8, 2017 19:32
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Ledgem posted:Is there a way I could do this myself as well? I do apologize for being aggressively insane about it I just can't comprehend how it keeps happening. I haven't had a draft go past 3 wins since january where games felt normal and I was doing well as often as I was losing, and it's always been due to flood. Even constructed games have been having this problem so I've reduced my decks to minimum land and STILL get flooded, rarely screwed. The fact that it happens to others and my knowledge that it is possible for digital randomization to not function properly doesn't help. Whether you draw power vs not drawing power should follow a binomial distribution. The probability of drawing M or more power over N turns would then follow a cumulative binomial distribution that you can easily calculate in excel or find a table for online.
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May 8, 2017 19:36
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Ledgem posted:Is there a way I could do this myself as well? I do apologize for being aggressively insane about it I just can't comprehend how it keeps happening. I haven't had a draft go past 3 wins since january where games felt normal and I was doing well as often as I was losing, and it's always been due to flood. Even constructed games have been having this problem so I've reduced my decks to minimum land and STILL get flooded, rarely screwed. The fact that it happens to others and my knowledge that it is possible for digital randomization to not function properly doesn't help. I should be able to get enough data points by the end of the month. Bear in mind also that there are other ways that a deck can feel like it's being screwed - eg. in my Elysian midrange deck, drawing 12 power out of the first 20 cards is fine if enough of those cards are Twinbrood Sauropods, drawing 7 power out of 20 feels dreadful if those other 13 cards are all situational (4 Sauropod Wranglers and nothing with power 5? Yes please!) MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 19:39
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bamhand posted:Whether you draw power vs not drawing power should follow a binomial distribution. The probability of drawing M or more power over N turns would then follow a cumulative binomial distribution that you can easily calculate in excel or find a table for online. It's not binomial because the probability of drawing a land is not constant. You can approximate it as binomial if the deck is very very big, but the distribution you actually want to work with is the Hypergeometric Distribution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergeometric_distribution There's plenty of online calculators for this (indeed, there are plenty of calculators for this in a card game context due to MtG)
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May 8, 2017 19:43
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Whoops yeah hyper geometric is what i meant.
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May 8, 2017 19:44
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Ledgem posted:We'll see how fine it is when this game continues to dwindle if these issues aren't addressed. Maybe it's just confirmation bias on your part that the game is fine? I've never seen anyone complain so much about flooding in this game, especially those coming from magic.
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May 8, 2017 19:50
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Can't wait for the big revelation that this guy is playing 25 power in his draft decks.
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May 8, 2017 19:50
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17 or 18 draft, 26-28 constructed.
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May 8, 2017 20:11
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standard.deviant posted:That is not what confirmation bias means. You absolutely can have a confirmation bias in that way, why wouldn't you be able to?
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May 8, 2017 20:22
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Ledgem posted:17 or 18 draft, 26-28 constructed. I've heard people say over 25 is fine in some constructed decks but I never put more than 25 power in my constructed decks. And I've been power screwed before, sure, but not in any extreme sense. I did track my 280 games to master last season and if I got power screwed I noted it, and counting it up just now it was only about 20 times (some were less severe than others) that it happened. So, basically 7% of games. Not too bad at all.
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May 8, 2017 20:24
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No Safe Word posted:I've heard people say over 25 is fine in some constructed decks but I never put more than 25 power in my constructed decks. And I've been power screwed before, sure, but not in any extreme sense. I did track my 280 games to master last season and if I got power screwed I noted it, and counting it up just now it was only about 20 times (some were less severe than others) that it happened. So, basically 7% of games. Not too bad at all. Many decks can run 25 power if they have plenty of power seekers.
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May 8, 2017 20:28
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Yeah that's basically what I do, if my deck is on the heavier end I'll have seeks/favors/other ways to pull sigils/power to smooth things out. The versatility of those cards is often worth the small trade-off in tempo.
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May 8, 2017 20:48
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Ledgem posted:17 or 18 draft, 26-28 constructed.
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May 8, 2017 21:08
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Tin Tim posted:Could your mulligan game be related to it? Like the mull is the only input you have on the power flow and maybe you make greedy re-draws or keep too many risky hands? I'm pretty careful with my mull in draft and always aim for a three power hand with a 1-3 turn plan. If I don't get that then I consider how much better/worse my mull could be or if the current cards are stil good enough to avoid the risk alltogether. There's a bunch of personal instinct and judgement stuff wrapped into this but I felt that my games improved after I tried to put more thoughts into my mull. no you see it's the shuffler
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May 8, 2017 21:09
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ShaneB posted:no you see it's the shuffler It might be, it might not be. Being sarcy about it without any further input just makes you look like a tosser. Meanwhile is there a downtime or something right now because I've been queuing for 20 minutes  [edit] Going for "bug" because when I pressed cancel nothing happened
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May 8, 2017 21:16
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