Tekken 7

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Jmcrofts: Jan 7, 2008; just chillin' in the club; Lipstick Apathy

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:

I saw this yesterday too, I'm hoping since that's from a month ago they know about it and it won't be in the home version, even with full meter a 95% combo is probably a little much

Eh, full meter plus it's off a charged focus attack, plus it requires the wall, in a 3/5 game I don't think it's too much of a problem.

# ? May 11, 2017 18:09

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 18:36

Trykt: Jul 30, 2000; Still training..

I also think it's totally fine and the only part of that combo that even partially bothers me is the repeated dash - jab carry working so deep into the combo. I guess that's a side effect of how long the opponent was actually still standing for that combo, which is just a weird thing about Akuma's Focus/FADC combos. Extended guaranteed ground hits mostly don't happen in Tekken, you gotta launch for your damage, but Akuma gets to break the rules a little since he's an SF shithead. I guess we might see similar things from Eliza since she's the only other character with a meter mechanic.

# ? May 11, 2017 18:57

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn: Jul 11, 2006; You may not know it yet, but I'm your worst nightmare.

Jmcrofts posted:

Eh, full meter plus it's off a charged focus attack, plus it requires the wall, in a 3/5 game I don't think it's too much of a problem.

Hopefully you're right, I want him to be good and all but not just walk all over everybody else.

# ? May 11, 2017 18:57

DizzyBum: Apr 16, 2007

Trykt posted:

Gonna share some generally important lessons for newer peeps that I've learned from playing Tekken and 3D fighting games in general over the years . Some/all of this might seem super obvious but I promise each of these bullet points was a genuine fuckin' epiphany for me at some point:

Learn your punishes first - If you can't consistently punish unsafe moves then people WILL abuse them against you. Make sure you can at least attempt to do basic punishment, which includes knowing which moves you can actually punish with a combo instead of a single hit or string.

Block high, react to lows - This is kind of upside-down from 2D games. Your general goal on defense is to default to stand blocking to defend against highs and mids, and react to throws with a break input and react to lows (which are generally slowish moves) with a low block or low parry (then punish).

Mids are the baseline of your offense - As above, lows are generally slower/riskier, and High hitting moves generally have great properties but will always have the liability of being duckable which can lead to punishes/interrupts of varying severity. You need to threaten with mid hitting attacks very often to keep the opponent honest.

Strings that include highs after the first hit are mostly bad - Corollary to the previous point, but anytime you show the opponent a canned string that includes an obvious high (or low, for that matter) you're asking to get hit. There are strings that allow you to do different inputs to mix between a high or mid or even a low, or sometimes a stance change, and those are generally fine pressure tools. But if you try to use a mid-high thing as a go-to poke you're gonna get bopped.

Learn to convert off wall hits - Something that really intimidated me about learning TTT2 was figuring out how to alter my combos to include walls, but it turns out this is really easy. Every character will have 1 or 2 moves/strings that are basically meant to "pick up" a combo on an opponent that splats on a wall and you basically just go straight into this ASAP when the wall hit happens, then finish with a combo ender. Then it's oki as usual, that's it.

I hope that's helpful to somebody! Please ask questions if anything is unclear.

As someone that has zero Tekken experience (aside from occasionally dropping quarters in Tekken 4 many years ago), this is super-helpful. Thanks!

# ? May 11, 2017 20:16

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:

I saw this yesterday too, I'm hoping since that's from a month ago they know about it and it won't be in the home version, even with full meter a 95% combo is probably a little much

It's OK bc most of the people who pick Akuma are going to be bad.

Trykt posted:

Gonna share some generally important lessons for newer peeps that I've learned from playing Tekken and 3D fighting games in general over the years . Some/all of this might seem super obvious but I promise each of these bullet points was a genuine fuckin' epiphany for me at some point:

Learn your punishes first - If you can't consistently punish unsafe moves then people WILL abuse them against you. Make sure you can at least attempt to do basic punishment, which includes knowing which moves you can actually punish with a combo instead of a single hit or string.

Block high, react to lows - This is kind of upside-down from 2D games. Your general goal on defense is to default to stand blocking to defend against highs and mids, and react to throws with a break input and react to lows (which are generally slowish moves) with a low block or low parry (then punish).

Mids are the baseline of your offense - As above, lows are generally slower/riskier, and High hitting moves generally have great properties but will always have the liability of being duckable which can lead to punishes/interrupts of varying severity. You need to threaten with mid hitting attacks very often to keep the opponent honest.

Strings that include highs after the first hit are mostly bad - Corollary to the previous point, but anytime you show the opponent a canned string that includes an obvious high (or low, for that matter) you're asking to get hit. There are strings that allow you to do different inputs to mix between a high or mid or even a low, or sometimes a stance change, and those are generally fine pressure tools. But if you try to use a mid-high thing as a go-to poke you're gonna get bopped.

Learn to convert off wall hits - Something that really intimidated me about learning TTT2 was figuring out how to alter my combos to include walls, but it turns out this is really easy. Every character will have 1 or 2 moves/strings that are basically meant to "pick up" a combo on an opponent that splats on a wall and you basically just go straight into this ASAP when the wall hit happens, then finish with a combo ender. Then it's oki as usual, that's it.

I hope that's helpful to somebody! Please ask questions if anything is unclear.

Good post, though the thing about not using strings with highs isn't really true because a lot of those strings jail (i.e. if it's a 2-hit string that's Mid-High, and I block the Mid, I can't duck the High; I'm forced to block it). Mid pokes are definitely good and important so people don't duck all the time, but I wouldn't make the blanket statement that using highs is bad.

# ? May 11, 2017 20:56

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

Dammit, I don't have a PS4 or an XBox One and I won't be able to afford either for a long time. :smith:

# ? May 11, 2017 21:48

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

Dammit, I don't have a PS4 or an XBox One and I won't be able to afford either for a long time.

Its on pc too

# ? May 11, 2017 21:50

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

Real hurthling! posted:

Its on pc too

HAHAHAHAHAHA no.

# ? May 11, 2017 22:08

Zand: Jul 9, 2003; ~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

HAHAHAHAHAHA no.

# ? May 11, 2017 22:12

Diesel Fucker: Aug 14, 2003; I spent my rent money on tentacle porn.

Bleep posted:

Kazumi / Devil Kazumi is easy to beat in the arcade version of the game. She is pretty much a standard Tekken character rather than a giant mess like Azazel.

Thanks dude.

This was literally a deal breaker for me. I'm far too crap and old with dusty green bones to be playing online against actual people so I'll just be beasting 1player mode.

# ? May 11, 2017 22:20

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Trykt posted:

Gonna share some generally important lessons for newer peeps that I've learned from playing Tekken and 3D fighting games in general over the years . Some/all of this might seem super obvious but I promise each of these bullet points was a genuine fuckin' epiphany for me at some point:

Strings that include highs after the first hit are mostly bad - Corollary to the previous point, but anytime you show the opponent a canned string that includes an obvious high (or low, for that matter) you're asking to get hit. There are strings that allow you to do different inputs to mix between a high or mid or even a low, or sometimes a stance change, and those are generally fine pressure tools. But if you try to use a mid-high thing as a go-to poke you're gonna get bopped.

There ARE some mid to high strings that are okay though, namely ones that jail, meaning if you block them standing you can't duck the high.

The post is bang on though, everything in this will improve you massively starting out.

# ? May 11, 2017 23:09

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

Zand posted:

?

He's probably laughing about how his computer is way too crappy to run this game

On a separate note, here's a tier list that was put together in February by a bunch of top Japanese players:

Obviously tier lists aren't law (because if they were he'd be top (heheheheheh)), but this is a nice diagram that's easy to read. There's some stuff by top Korean players out there, but they're not in nice image format.

# ? May 11, 2017 23:39

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

miguel isn't in arcades yet?

# ? May 11, 2017 23:54

Weird Pumpkin: Oct 7, 2007

Wasn't back when the list was put together anyway!

I wonder how the game shakes out now actually, I think there's been a patch in the past 3 months?

# ? May 11, 2017 23:58

Trykt: Jul 30, 2000; Still training..

I appreciate the corrections and additional information, duders!

Just to follow up on the wall conversion thing on my post, I wanted to give some examples:

Here is a full combo by Asuka that ends with a wall splat, where she goes right into a specific string that both keeps them up and pinned to the wall and does great damage to finish the combo:
https://youtu.be/oFwuZLIfjzw?t=1846

Note that while that was a long combo, if Steve had hit the wall at any earlier point in the combo, she would have done the exact same thing, abbreviating the combo. Yes, walls are generally thought of as a source of increased damage but they can sometimes reduce the damage you get instead. However, when the opponent's back is close to a wall it can make certain moves of yours way more dangerous because they become combo starters instead of ordinary knockdowns, like so:
https://youtu.be/oFwuZLIfjzw?t=2172

Note Asuka finishes with that same string right away after the wall hit. Every character will have a consistent option like this, you just have to find it. I'd recommend watching match videos for your character to see what they do but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what's good for it on your own anyway.

One more clip to drive the point home (Asuka gets two wall conversions in this round!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwuZLIfjzw&t=2214s

Here's a bonus clip of Steve being fuckin sick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwuZLIfjzw&t=1689s

Here Steve converts with a simple 2 hit string and then goes into a stance to use a move basically specially designed to be a combo ender at the wall! It owns. Anyway, hope all that helps.

Trykt fucked around with this message at 00:17 on May 12, 2017

# ? May 12, 2017 00:12

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

Also the reason particular strings become the go-to for wall damage is that someone can't block if they're splatted against the wall, so strings that wouldn't normally be natural combos or work well in juggles suddenly become viable damage sources on the wall. You don't really even have to lab it if you don't want to because by now someone else has already figured out your character's optimal stuff.

# ? May 12, 2017 00:29

Bleep: Feb 7, 2004

There's no bound at the wall now, so ideal combos after wall splat are usually just 3 to 4 hits. Super quick to learn.

# ? May 12, 2017 02:35

Lothire: Jan 27, 2007; Rx Suicide emailed me and all I got was this amazingly awesome forum account.; Tortured By Flan

Elvis_Maximus posted:

Wasn't back when the list was put together anyway!

I wonder how the game shakes out now actually, I think there's been a patch in the past 3 months?

I believe (possibly erroneously) that he and Lee are console release characters, so they won't show up for arcades until the game is released for consoles.

As well, the console release will be introducing a handful of changes to the game that will be patched into the arcades on release, so that the console release is kind of like a version change/update patch. I think it's mostly character stuff, though there's a thread on zaibatsu about it.

# ? May 12, 2017 02:58

Luna Was Here: Mar 21, 2013; Lipstick Apathy

Real hurthling! posted:

miguel isn't in arcades yet?

Kuma, Panda, Miguel and Eliza are not yet available in Arcades and are coming with the console version of the game. I assume they'll be added into Arcades then but until then we're in the dark on how good any of those 4 will be

# ? May 12, 2017 09:32

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Luna Was Here posted:

Kuma, Panda, Miguel and Eliza are not yet available in Arcades and are coming with the console version of the game. I assume they'll be added into Arcades then but until then we're in the dark on how good any of those 4 will be

I don't think Lee or Eddy are in the arcades either are they?

# ? May 12, 2017 12:24

poe meater: Feb 17, 2011

How hard is Nina and Bryan execution wise anyways?

# ? May 12, 2017 13:04

Bleep: Feb 7, 2004

Spuckuk posted:

I don't think Lee or Eddy are in the arcades either are they?

Nah they aren't. They haven't confirmed for sure if arcade are getting console characters either, they never brought console characters to TTT2. The South East Asia / Australia / New Zealand arcade region never got upgraded to FR either, so we're stuck with vanilla 7.

poe meater posted:

How hard is Nina and Bryan execution wise anyways?

Both of them have some of the hardest execution in the game if you want to use them to their fullest. In 7 Nina has some easier combo options you can use instead and you don't necessarily need all the hardest stuff Bryan has to offer.

I can do Mishima execution without much trouble but I still struggle with these two things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiTf56jhkxc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMAvpYE9puU

# ? May 12, 2017 13:11

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

A thing I like about Tekken is the names of characters

So like in SF you have names like blanka and sagat

In Tekken you have Steve and Bryan

# ? May 12, 2017 13:13

Macarius Wrench: Mar 28, 2017; by Lowtax

And Jack.

And Bruce.

# ? May 12, 2017 13:18

Trykt: Jul 30, 2000; Still training..

As long as Bryan can still do Taunt into f+2,1,4 I don't think I'll ever feel an especially strong need to learn to do Jet Upper instead. I still don't really understand how you're supposed to do a B,F input in 1 frame or whatever!!!!!!!

# ? May 12, 2017 13:18

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

poe meater posted:

How hard is Nina and Bryan execution wise anyways?

In TTT2 Nina is one of the hardest characters due to her iWS1 loops. It seems like you don't need to have these in 7 to make her usable, so she shouldn't be too hard.

Bryans main difficulty spike is in using his unblockable taunt into Jet Upper launcher, which is a super tricky 1 frame link. HOWEVER, he's perfectly usable without this, and you'll rarely see even high level players attempt it any more (It was far more powerful in older versions of the game).

Kazuya is probably the hardest execution character, just because his EWGF and wavedash are absolutely critical to play him at any level.

# ? May 12, 2017 13:26

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Trykt posted:

As long as Bryan can still do Taunt into f+2,1,4 I don't think I'll ever feel an especially strong need to learn to do Jet Upper instead. I still don't really understand how you're supposed to do a B,F input in 1 frame or whatever!!!!!!!

It's a manually timed 1-frame link, you need to hit f, then on the next frame back and right punch to hit the exact 1-frame where it will connect. Taunt b+3 is more lenient and more useful, as it gives you full launch at the wall, where they can't backdash the short range on his taunt.

# ? May 12, 2017 13:28

poe meater: Feb 17, 2011

I should've played Tekken in 05 instead of 3s

# ? May 12, 2017 13:35

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

poe meater posted:

I should've played Tekken in 05 instead of 3s

My thoughts exactly.

I even lived in ATL back then :negative:

# ? May 12, 2017 13:45

boxcarhobo: Jun 23, 2005

Macarius Wrench posted:

And Jack.

And Bruce.

no bruce in 7 ;~;

just josie, who is cool, but she doesnt have back 2 so WHATS THE drat POINT

# ? May 12, 2017 15:56

Renoistic: Jul 27, 2007; Everyone has a
guardian angel.

Macarius Wrench posted:

And Jack.

And Bruce.

And Bob.

# ? May 12, 2017 16:30

BattleHamster: Mar 18, 2009

Elvis_Maximus posted:

Wasn't back when the list was put together anyway!

I wonder how the game shakes out now actually, I think there's been a patch in the past 3 months?

https://twitter.com/CircaAnakin/status/862022757323767809

But in reality it has been and will always be

https://twitter.com/tk_saint/status/816417212709748736

# ? May 12, 2017 16:44

DizzyBum: Apr 16, 2007

Having fun in a video game? Surely you jest!

# ? May 12, 2017 16:59

Mammalian: Nov 9, 2011; Not just any Jesus Mammalian Jesus

BattleHamster posted:

https://twitter.com/CircaAnakin/status/862022757323767809

But in reality it has been and will always be

https://twitter.com/tk_saint/status/816417212709748736

my reality is more like: try to follow my heart, play the characters I like, they're almost ALWAYS either blatantly underpowered, or broken and OP. Once devs learn to balance or hire people for balancing, I'll stop checking up tier lists. I can't go through falling in love with a character then finding out they're useless, again.

# ? May 12, 2017 17:26

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

When your formative years are spent playing 3S Alex, you learn to at least try to avoid "gets mercilessly strangled by the top" tier

# ? May 12, 2017 17:28

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

Mammalian posted:

my reality is more like: try to follow my heart, play the characters I like, they're almost ALWAYS either blatantly underpowered, or broken and OP. Once devs learn to balance or hire people for balancing, I'll stop checking up tier lists. I can't go through falling in love with a character then finding out they're useless, again.

I think a lot of people who worry about balance are people who won't ever come close to scraping the skill ceiling with their character of choice anyway.

# ? May 12, 2017 17:47

nogic: Jul 6, 2002

There really aren't any characters in Tekken that are just fundamentally broken and unplayable. Very few fighting games have characters like that. So you can play whoever you want to!

# ? May 12, 2017 18:04

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn: Jul 11, 2006; You may not know it yet, but I'm your worst nightmare.

Spuckuk posted:

Bryans main difficulty spike is in using his unblockable taunt into Jet Upper launcher, which is a super tricky 1 frame link. HOWEVER, he's perfectly usable without this, and you'll rarely see even high level players attempt it any more (It was far more powerful in older versions of the game).

except Mr. Naps who does it in tournament and it rules

# ? May 12, 2017 18:06

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn: Jul 11, 2006; You may not know it yet, but I'm your worst nightmare.

Mammalian posted:

my reality is more like: try to follow my heart, play the characters I like, they're almost ALWAYS either blatantly underpowered, or broken and OP. Once devs learn to balance or hire people for balancing, I'll stop checking up tier lists. I can't go through falling in love with a character then finding out they're useless, again.

There aren't really any awful matchups in Tekken and all of the characters are a lot closer in power than tier lists might suggest in other games. Don't worry about it, pick who you wanna play.

# ? May 12, 2017 18:08

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 18:36

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:

except Mr. Naps who does it in tournament and it rules

Well true. He's so good Koreans compliment him on his movement.

# ? May 12, 2017 20:51

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