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The first step I'd do is...well, not tie them to the stereotypes of Roma or Irish Travelers. Use different aesthetics, different cultural values, etc.
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May 15, 2017 19:50
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marshmallow creep posted:Is it possible to have this concept of a roaming clan or nation of fantasy thieves and fortunetellers without immediately connecting to real world Roma, or is that just a spoiled, ruined-by-racists idea at this point? As soon as you say either thief or fortune teller you're done. Itinerant anything else is okay but the idea of traveling thieves is hopelessly poisoned.
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May 15, 2017 19:55
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I guess you could do vikings, maybe. e: that is, if you had to tie your fantasy culture to a real-world one Leraika fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 19:55
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Itinerant priests of the god of journeys sounds pretty cool though.
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May 15, 2017 19:58
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Speaking of racist depictions of Roma, more Ravenloft. RIchemulot The land of Richemulot is mostly empty, as the population is found mostly in the three major settlements of the realm. The cities are huge, and could easily support three times their population. Not even the Richemuloise know what happened to those who originally built these cities and abandoned them. Underneath are large modern sewer networks, twisting deep into the earth. The realm is ruled by an aristocratic nobility who have absolute control over the domain, but there is a surprising amount of class mobility. Knowledge and secrets are highly prized and a noble can easily fall by having his secrets revealed while a simple cobbler can become a noble overnight by overhearing the right secret and using it wisely. This makes Richemuloise intrigue particularly dizzying in their complexity. Thanks to the overall economic well-being of the nation, though, there is a large number of immigrants. Jacqueline Renier, matriach of the Renier family and unofficial ruler of the Domain, welcomes anyone as long as they have a weapon and swear fealty to Richemulot itself. Jacqueline is a very ruthless and cunning ruler, but also fiercely patriotic. She is well regarded by her subjects.  The Sea of Sorrows The western sea is cold and foggy, with few storms but unpredictable winds. The sea has something of a haunted reputation; tales of ghost ships, particularly the legendary Relentless, are not uncommon among veteran sailors. There are few islands in the Sea: Ghastria is a pastoral land inhabited by farmers and ruled by the Marquis Stezan d'Polarno. The Marquis throws annual galas for nobles who make the journey to the Island. Blaustein is a rocky place inhabited by thugs and ruffians, fiercely loyal to their secretive tyrant Bluebeard. Dominia'S only settlement is the asylum of Daclaud Heinfroth, a renowned institution for treating those plagued by madness. The Shadow Rift The Shadow Rift is a vast hole in the middle of the core. No bottom can be seen, as dark swirling vapors appear after a certain depths. Few, if any, return from those vapors. Stories abound about the monsters that supposedly come up from the Rift, and most speculate it is a gate to a terrifying and alien world. Sithicus This is perhaps the only domain in the Mists to be primarily non-human. There's a missed opportunity there for dark Dwarf and Gnome kingdoms, if you ask me. The Domain is one of ancient foresta and fading glory, as the elves seems to apathetic to care that their houses are rotting away and their libraries are being overrun by mildew. The country was originally ruled by a mysterious Dark Knight from Nedragaard keep,  This guy but ever since his disappearance a dwarf named Azrael has claimed the throne. Azrael is cruel and is hated by the elves, but they fear him more. He controls undead troops, and some whisper he has supernatural powers of his own. Despite the isolationist nature of Sithicus' High Elves (and their racism), a growing number of marriages with visiting merchants has created a new minority of half-elves in the realm.
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May 15, 2017 21:01
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Alien Rope Burn posted:
You know, with all these flying vehicles piloted by illiterates, the Coalition must have some really, really rear end-kicking air traffic control. Also run by illiterates.
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May 15, 2017 21:39
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Okay, that's interesting. I remember from some of the 2E material that if a Darklord was killed or otherwise dealt with in a permanent fashion, the Dread Powers would cause the Realm to swiftly self-destruct and spit everyone out into the Mists (or back to the Prime Material, if your group was tired of Ravenloft).
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May 15, 2017 21:45
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Zereth posted:Itinerant priests of the god of journeys sounds pretty cool though. A friend of mine wrote up a nomadic and marginalized people for Exalted that he based on the historical Japanese miko - once a kind of priest-caste who communicated with spirits through possession, then forced by the bankruptcy of their shrines into taking on a wandering lifestyle of mendicancy that became associated with vice, theft, and prostitution, and public opinion turning against them when the Japanese Emperor started a propaganda campaign against them after being declared the head of the state religion (so the existing miko power structure wouldn't be a threat to the Emperor's religious legitimacy). My friend took that idea, made them into a fantasy-Iranian priest-caste-thingy that was cursed by their god for some petty reason to blight crops in any location they stay in for too long - which causes agricultural communities to hate them - and wrote them as travelling communities of merchants and spiritbusters who hire mercenaries for their own protection, whose reputation as thieves comes from the parasitic camp followers who follow them around to benefit from their relative richness. A lifestyle they'd been forced into because people kept killing them for blighting their crops. Even so, a lot of the reactions were "wait that's kind of uncomfortably close to justifying the persecution faced by the Roma are you sure about this??".
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May 15, 2017 21:47
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Bieeardo posted:Okay, that's interesting. I remember from some of the 2E material that if a Darklord was killed or otherwise dealt with in a permanent fashion, the Dread Powers would cause the Realm to swiftly self-destruct and spit everyone out into the Mists (or back to the Prime Material, if your group was tired of Ravenloft). That's definitely a possibility, but 3E also added the possibilities of the Darklord being replaced (as in the case of Sthicus, although Azrael isn't actually the realm's Darklord) or split between other Domains (as in Gundarak being split between Barovia and a few other Domains).
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May 15, 2017 21:54
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marshmallow creep posted:Is it possible to have this concept of a roaming clan or nation of fantasy thieves and fortunetellers without immediately connecting to real world Roma, or is that just a spoiled, ruined-by-racists idea at this point? Using the very term "thieves and fortunetellers" is essentially borrowing from the base stereotypes of Romani culture, so don't do that. It really depends on how many points of commonality you have with the stereotype. It you're serious about doing it right, it'd actually be better to speak with members of the Romani community than a bunch of goons. A major issue, in addition to the usual gang of stereotypes, Is that those cultures ate almost universally othered on a level that even most "demihumans" aren't. You can play an elf or a dwarf, but you can't play a vistani, that would ruin their mystery. It might be interesting to do a Romani-inspired fantasy based on their beliefs and mythology, but once again, you'd be best served by speaking to that community and researching direct sources.
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May 15, 2017 21:56
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Leraika posted:I guess you could do vikings, maybe.
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May 15, 2017 21:59
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A roving culture of carpet baggers, snake oil salesmen, flea circus conductors, and oil prospectors.
Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 22:01
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LatwPIAT posted:A friend of mine wrote up a nomadic and marginalized people for Exalted that he based on the historical Japanese miko - Wanna go somewhere? Pay them some money to decide to go in the direction you want to instead of a random direction and enjoy your safer than otherwise journey!
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May 15, 2017 22:15
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For non-gypsy nomadic people's you could look at the Bedouin, Mongols or American plains Indians.
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May 15, 2017 23:28
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Using the very term "thieves and fortunetellers" is essentially borrowing from the base stereotypes of Romani culture, so don't do that. It really depends on how many points of commonality you have with the stereotype. It you're serious about doing it right, it'd actually be better to speak with members of the Romani community than a bunch of goons. A major issue, in addition to the usual gang of stereotypes, Is that those cultures ate almost universally othered on a level that even most "demihumans" aren't. You can play an elf or a dwarf, but you can't play a vistani, that would ruin their mystery. Amazing. Night10194 mentioned the Strigany, and while I don't have much experience with Warhammer lore, what little I read suggests they are people from a country that was ruled openly by vampires that the rest of vampire kind turned against so hard their land was destroyed and the people scattered. The idea of people being persecuted because the petty deceptions of vampires turning even other humans against them actually sounds like a good hook, but then the only Strigany specific career is just "no we're literally just a bad Roma stereotype and it's one-hundred percent right. People hate us because we really are just roaming grifters and con men, but some of us are also secret mystics (just still in league with evil vampires.)" Like...there's no imagination there. There's an idea in there for a kind of vampire-based diaspora that could have all sorts of character hooks or stories, but they didn't do anything with it but drop a racist caricature in and call it a day. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 00:18 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 23:55
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occamsnailfile posted:You know, with all these flying vehicles piloted by illiterates, the Coalition must have some really, really rear end-kicking air traffic control. Also run by illiterates. Or they just use advanced flight control technology like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLHI5Fu--0I&t=40s
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May 15, 2017 23:57
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darthbob88 posted:I was thinking possibly something like Fantasy American Imperialists; roving bands that will suck down every resource they can get their hands on to expand their caravans and families, whether by theft, scam, or trade, before moving on to another area to loot. If you got food, they'll steal it, if you got trees, they'll clear cut them, and if you got metal, they'll trade it for trinkets and magic. All shall feed the insatiable maw of the Nacirema. I like this. I imagine them living in a giant wagon train, emphasis on giant wagon, where some of the wagons are so large they need hundreds of oxen to pull them and can support a parliament with all their accompanying staff. But it's just for one really rich "trade creator."
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May 16, 2017 00:02
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 Rifts World Book 11: Coalition War Campaign Part Twelve: "The crash causes 2D4x100 M.D. to a 300 foot (91 m) radius." Maybe the Coalition should give up on lasers and missiles and just crash jets into dragons.  neeeeyaaarrrrr CS Scout Rocket Cycle Remember the Coalition Sky Cycle from the corebook? Of course you do. Well, this is like that, only it flies a little slower (440 MPH max), is missing the laser turret (but still has the mini-missiles), but is almost identical otherwise. The garbage version of this produced by Black Market and Northern Gun only goes half the speed (220 MPH).  "It's like when you're the restaurant and they're putting fresh oregano on and you forget to tell them to stop... but with guns." CS Warbird Rocket Cycle This is supposed to be the middle ground between the Scout Rocket Cycle and the Sky Cycle, but is actually more the glass cannon of the set. It goes 400 MPH, but has triple rail gun that does the damage of a boom gun (!), lasers and particle beams to use when the ammo runs out for that, mini-missiles, and fusion bombs that do ridiculous damage. It's bizarre that it does more damage than most of the tanks and giant robots in this book, but consistency is something for lesser designers.  "Don't take off yet! We put all the fins on the wrong way!" CS Wind Jammer Sky Cycle This is supposed to be the "infantry" version of the Sky Cycle, whatever that means. In reality, it's pretty much the power creep'd version of the original Sky Cycle, only with a more boring Vince Martin design this time! It has about the same M.D.C. as the rest, goes 620 M.P.H., dual rail guns that do impressive damage, mini-missiles, and a "concealed" laser in classic Palladiumesese for "there's no laser on the design but I'm gonna stat it anyway". And, thankfully, we're done with sky cycles... until the next World Book...   "Better fueling it than flying it, that's what I say." Black Lightning Coalition Combat Helicopter I'm not sure why the Coalition is loving around with old rotorcraft; apparently it's because it's cheap, but the country is building enough robot skeletons that their army is visible from space, I don't get the impression they actually have to worry about resources or economies in their comic book work supervillain factories where everything is built out of steam and heat. In any case, this is produced by the former Iron Heart Armaments and is in line with their love of copy-pasting pre-rifts war technology. In any case, this thing is fragile as hell for a war machine, doubly so if you take aim at the rotors. Its nose laser is ignorable, but the double rail guns and mini-missiles can do decent damage. It can also carry things around on a winch if you're willing to bet on this thing's survival despite the fact that an angry stare from a monster could probably bring this thing down. Oh, yeah: 300 MPH. Northern Gun and the Black Market make knockoffs of this thing and the other helicopter, because they'll sell you any goddamn deathtrap they can pirate the designs for, apparently.  "A Hind D? Colonel, what's a Russian gunship doing here? Wait, did we already use this quote?" Demon Locust Coalition Combat Helicopter "We're in a helicopter called the Demon Locust covered in skulls... are we the baddies?" This is the slightly heavier, slightly slower version of the Black Lightning with more armaments - lasers, rail guns, mini-missiles, medium-range missiles. The missiles are about the only notable heavy weapons on here. It has a winch for those willing to take further bets on the survival prospects of these things (not high). No doubt when these things show up the PCs find a rocket launcher conveniently on the ground with a stash of infinite ammo. If they're not intended to be shot down to provide an exciting explosion, I'm not sure what they're here for.  "Drop your altitude, Grey 3." "But they can shoot us down there!" "But they can't see your cool skull stylings. Drop your altitude." SF-7 CS Talon Stealth VTOL Jet Fighter Well, since we have Nazis, I guess we need a Horten Ho 229 flying wing (though the stealth features obviously come from the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit). This is a pre-rifts design being manufactured by Iron Heart. Naturally, it's a VTOL, because Rifts thinks that's just a feature you can put on jets like fuzzy dice or Sirius radio and not a central design feature or anything. It notes that there are only thirty of them being tested prior to the Tolkeen invasion or for use against the Xiticix. It flies up to MACH 1.5, is decently tough, is loaded down with mini-missiles, long-range missiles, and has lasers if it runs out of missiles. It has fancy radar, and there's zero details about what it's stealth / anti-radar system actually does (other than in the name). It also has special crashing rules that are essentially designed to make sure PCs can't salvage one of these. Only Nazis get cool toys, no takey their makey, heroes! That's it for vehicles!... until the next world book. And the one after that. And the one after that. And the one after that. And the sourcebook after that. Basically, look forward to more vehicles, but not just yet. Next: My honour is loyalty (and also probably a skull). Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 02:32 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 00:42
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marshmallow creep posted:I like this. I imagine them living in a giant wagon train, emphasis on giant wagon, where some of the wagons are so large they need hundreds of oxen to pull them and can support a parliament with all their accompanying staff. But it's just for one really rich "trade creator."
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May 16, 2017 01:05
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My only comment for the skullcopters is Hatredcopter Hatredcopter Hatredcopter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9LOAdP9iIQ
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May 16, 2017 01:05
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Alien Rope Burn posted:
So, I have a friend who has a history of wrangling me into running (heavily house ruled) Rifts (TM) games for him and a few other friends every few years, which are usually a stupid blast until something in the books breaks my brain and I throw the whole campaign into the fire until next time. Finding out that this thing had a boom-gun level weapon just sort of slapped onto it, made from easily available railguns killed the most recent campaign after a player figured out there's a black market price on these things and snuck one in under my nose. Rifts! Not even once.
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May 16, 2017 01:39
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LeSquide posted:Finding out that this thing had a boom-gun level weapon just sort of slapped onto it, made from easily available railguns killed the most recent campaign after a player figured out there's a black market price on these things and snuck one in under my nose. Yeah, this book is full of odd power creep, and not necessarily where you'd expect it. Granted, having a boom gun level of damage is now old hat in this age in which there's a glitter boy with a double boom gun, but everything is relative.
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May 16, 2017 02:11
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darthbob88 posted:Possible, I hadn't considered the Supply-Side aspect. I was just thinking about the notion of First-World-as-parasite, but instead of sending their merchants to buy your last grain of wheat, they come and take it in person. Alternatively, mid-19th century Americans, who come to They take the "march of progress" literally. The working man types will say "Ain't got time to look back, we have to keep on keeping on," and, "If you stop to think about every little thing in our way, you're going to get trampled by those that don't." "Falling behind" figuratively could mean "falling behind" literally as you get dumped to crummier wagons at the back of the wagon train or even thrown off entirely. People without wagons are seen as the ultimate layabouts and good for nothings, without the sense to "get off their laurels" and just "Get on with Progress."
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May 16, 2017 02:14
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LeSquide posted:Rifts! Not even once.
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May 16, 2017 02:27
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Zereth posted:Itinerant priests of the god of journeys sounds pretty cool though. I'm pretty sure it's a requirement to be a priest of the god of journeys that you don't stay in one place very long. They wouldn't be a very good god of journeys otherwise.
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May 16, 2017 02:56
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Obligatum VII posted:I'm pretty sure it's a requirement to be a priest of the god of journeys that you don't stay in one place very long. They wouldn't be a very good god of journeys otherwise. What if they maintain a hostlery or sacred coaching inn?
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May 16, 2017 03:08
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Part of your worshipful life is to transition from the one who travels to the ones who enable travel.
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May 16, 2017 03:11
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marshmallow creep posted:They take the "march of progress" literally. The working man types will say "Ain't got time to look back, we have to keep on keeping on," and, "If you stop to think about every little thing in our way, you're going to get trampled by those that don't."
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May 16, 2017 03:26
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I dearly love the idiot skullmachines of Rift. Usually, the tech/gear section is a total waste of generic sketches and arbitrary-seeming numbers, but the Coalition's blatantly villainous war machine combined with the text awkwardly trying to make them morally ambiguous combined with the fact they all look like Cobra Commander playsets comes together to make something really hilarious.
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May 16, 2017 03:31
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Obligatum VII posted:I'm pretty sure it's a requirement to be a priest of the god of journeys that you don't stay in one place very long. They wouldn't be a very good god of journeys otherwise. The Forgotten Realms have a priesthood like this, Shaundakul being the god of exploration and travel. Shaundakul's priests are always on the move, and include as many rangers as traditional clerics.
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May 16, 2017 03:37
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There's also Fharlanghn in Greyhawk, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize how ridiculous that name is.
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May 16, 2017 03:42
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Nessus posted:I think the big problem with this metaphor is that if it exists in normal reality in Creation, they would either be a poor analogy (nomadic herders with weirdly Objectivist ideology) or would need some kind of military advantage or else they would get crushed and murdered by someone with even a kinda lovely army. The main reason America was able to get so big and fat is that we have been real good at punching down. Oh absolutely. I was taking it as a given in my head that the "diplomatic" first wave that runs ahead of the wagon train does all its work with guns at hand. The average citizen is heavily insulated from retaliation by a massive bubble of guns, and even basic relations with those they encounter are colored by the implied threat of this cavalry. Maybe this concept is more plausible in a sci to setting where everyone is on ships in some great migration. Like they believe if they reach the galactic core they will be closer to heaven, and anything they take to get there is fair game so long as they get to keep going.
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May 16, 2017 06:40
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Kavak posted:There's also Fharlanghn in Greyhawk, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize how ridiculous that name is. I was under the impression that every name in Greyhawk came out of a random word generator.
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May 16, 2017 08:59
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potatocubed posted:I was under the impression that every name in Greyhawk came out of a random word generator. I think most of them come out of an anagram generator for someone's name. Or a on the fly bad jokes. "So what's the name of the ocean near the Wild Coast?" "Oh, that's Woolly Bay"
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May 16, 2017 09:22
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marshmallow creep posted:Oh absolutely. I was taking it as a given in my head that the "diplomatic" first wave that runs ahead of the wagon train does all its work with guns at hand. The average citizen is heavily insulated from retaliation by a massive bubble of guns, and even basic relations with those they encounter are colored by the implied threat of this cavalry.
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May 16, 2017 10:31
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It's kinda weird how Siembieda destroyed the Naruni's weapons for being OP, and then made so many other weapons 50% stronger. Maybe he just hated Carella for personal reasons, or something.
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May 16, 2017 17:23
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Yeah, you have to wonder how much of it is tied to Carella's sudden exit. The Naruni return eventually- after all, Palladium's not going to pass up the opportunity to publish another book of stuff.
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May 16, 2017 17:48
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I vastly preferred Carella's stuff. It was creative, pretty, and potent. It didn't hurt that it was less fiddly for its own sake-- more 1d6x10 damage than 6d6 or other unwieldy handfuls of dice-- and the fiddliness tended to be for tactical effect (Arkhon cerasteel and tri-beams) than bloating a statblock built from a random sketch and a mad-libs generator. Always suspected that Siembieda felt threatened by it somehow.
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May 16, 2017 17:58
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I personally love the Naruni stuff because it's so '90s. They're energy weapons that use cartridges in magazines or belt-fed, so it tosses out spent smoking shells and would be stored in numerous mag pouches, and have 2 inch (50mm) bores, making them literal hand artillery. They're straight-up something you'd see in a Rob Leifeld comic.
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May 16, 2017 19:30
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He also tried to introduce more guns/abilities that did things besides straight damage. A lot of them were OP (or sorta depending on what you were fighting) and Palladium's inconsistency about saves and lack of anything remotely like consistent nomenclature meant that some of the rules were unclear, but they were at least an option besides "roll to hit, roll some piddly damage." And spacewarping capybaras and time-traveling Incan mummies and other craziness. The craziness was something I liked (still like) about Rifts and having less of that (like, an entire book about Juicers, then an entire book about moar Coalition poo poo) makes the line less vibrant. I know Carella worked on Juicer Uprising but it was still kind of a step down from SA 2, though he did some good content work for it.
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May 16, 2017 19:30
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