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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah the English-over- uhhh whatever that was, Hindi? was a really cool effect. They're from Oman so I guess that means Arabic
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May 15, 2017 21:04
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Toast Museum posted:That's what I got from it too. If they were going to trick her at all, why not just tell her she failed the feather test? I think there were a lot of little clues. Primarily there's the meta-textual clue that a God like Anubis should by all rights be doing worse than almost anyone, because the Egyptian religion is about as dead as the Greek/Roman pantheon, none of whom appear in the story at all (because literally nobody believes in them). So you wonder, what is he doing that still allows for him to have so much power that he can take a dead woman to a big desert? None of the other old gods have anywhere near that sort of power. In fact, it kinda seems like cheating to have him be able to even speak to her after she dies since that kind of thing isn't really dealt with in the source material. Now, you guys talk about Ammitt and how he devours the souls of people who fail the test. Right, but what if Ammitt is gone? Anubis and Bast are very recognizable. I've studied Egyptian religion a lot and even I didn't remember Ammitt's name until it was mentioned in here. But I think that's beside the point of the other clues: 1. When she asks which door her father(?) is behind, Anubis just smiles. 2. When the door opens, we see a vast nothingness behind it. Not an afterlife, we literally see empty space. 3. When she begins to doubt, she is shoved through. This goes to another question: Why not just tell her she failed the test? Because a heart full of hope is so much more nourishing than one full of despair or bitterness or anger. In fact, it just now occurs to me that Anubis may have simply ate her heart after she was gone, and the whole test was just an excuse to get her heart, and shoving her through the door was an explicit "K we're done with you now bye thanx"
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May 15, 2017 22:13
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With all the padding, it makes it especially weird that they butchered the bank robbery. First off, he didn't have pink earmuffs, nor did he give the speech about seeming harmless. Second, we didn't get to hear him shuck and jive the cops, which was a highlight of the scene. Third, we didn't get to hear Shadow improvise all that stuff about "He better not be drinking again!" which went to showing how clever Shadow is, and besides was just funny.
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May 15, 2017 22:43
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Zurui posted:Speaking of, loved the subtitles in this episode. This show is so delightfully eccentric and strange.
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May 15, 2017 22:44
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Aardark posted:It weirded me out that they switched to English for the audience's benefit after a few sentences. I know you can't have extended subtitled scenes on an American show... but you normally can't have gay sex scenes either. If they've been living in the US for awhile its not crazy that they'd switch back and forth, like Spanglish. They used Arabic in order to form common ground and bond, but then they switch to English because its more comfortable for them even if Arabic was their mother tongue. IDK seems believable to me. But I did notice that too, when he switched back to English. I thought it was especially funny that he cursed in Arabic (Your mother's oval office!) and then a few minutes later he gets cut off again and he curses in English (gently caress!! poo poo!!)
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May 15, 2017 22:59
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eh, I think some of you guys are forgetting something really major from the book EXTRA SPOILERS, just in case: the American gods are not the gods from their old lands, they are aspects formed from belief and memory of the immigrants and settlers that came to the United States. Wednesday is not the Scandinavian Odin, far from it - Shadow meets a more original aspect when he travels to Iceland in the epilogue - nor is Anubis from Memphis, Tennessee the same worshiped in Memphis, Ancient Egypt. A thing that the series won't approach probably due to time constraints is that the situation was always bad for them because every goddamn European that comes to America has been christened and the pagan gods come from memory and folklore, not from genuine belief. Incidentally, this is why the African aspects that emerge in the Caribbean are powerful as hell, because the faith from the sub-Saharan peoples trafficked there is the perfect seed for the black soil of the tropics to provide in regards to belief - the gods even impel a slave named Agasu (who's probably François Mackandal) to lead a massive slave revolt after losing his arm and to slaughter the French as war sacrifice.
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May 15, 2017 23:11
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Nah nobody's forgetting, I mentioned that on like the first page  he is me, but I am not him
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May 15, 2017 23:19
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dead comedy forums posted:eh, I think some of you guys are forgetting something really major from the book Yeah. There are no Roman or Greek gods in America because nobody believed in them. Lief Ericson and his ilk gave Odin and Loki a foothold. And a loony Irish immigrant brought over belief in leprechauns, fairies, and other such stuff, iirc. I don't remember how Egyptian Gods made the cut, however, unless it came from the egyptomania of the 19th and early 20th century, plus egyptology and the translation of sacred tomes and such.
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May 15, 2017 23:22
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dead comedy forums posted:eh, I think some of you guys are forgetting something really major from the book
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May 15, 2017 23:24
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Egyptian Gods weren't in the novel at all, aside from Bast, IIRC. And Bast = cats so it's pretty clear how she's still here. e: forgot Ibis and Jacquel, funeral parlor dudes. And her cat is definitely supposed to be Bastet. precision fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 23:24
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Wizchine posted:Yeah. There are no Roman or Greek gods in America because nobody believed in them. Lief Ericson and his ilk gave Odin and Loki a foothold. And a loony Irish immigrant brought over belief in leprechauns, fairies, and other such stuff, iirc. That's really more a problem with the book, it's just kind a product of the hard on the 90s had for neo-paganism. So it just sort of played fast and loose with its rules to bring in the gods Gaiman wanted to showcase.
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May 15, 2017 23:59
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precision posted:Egyptian Gods weren't in the novel at all, aside from Bast, IIRC. And Bast = cats so it's pretty clear how she's still here. Horus plays a pretty important part at the end.
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May 16, 2017 00:03
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The novel runs with a few "pre-Columbian exchange Atlantic crossing" theories, which sent me down a rabbit hole investigating those. Basically, it's entirely POSSIBLE to cross the Atlantic in antiquity, and it was demonstrated that Egyptians could have. Allegedly, ancient Chinese coins have been found in the Andes, far from where they could have washed up by random chance. There are stone busts in South America that arguably have Egytpian and African features, when the indigineous persons wouldn't have. Stuff like that.
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May 16, 2017 00:03
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They also found more cocaine and tobacco in some mummies than could feasibly have existed without some kind of trade route with South America. e: here's a really good paper that addresses the criticism of pre-Columbian trade: http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htm precision fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 00:05
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precision posted:The Anubis scene is weird until you realize he's not leading her to the afterlife, Bast shoved her through the door so they could feast on her soul. I thought this was pretty explicit. I didn't find that scene weird nor did I get the impression they were going to feast on her soul. What are you talking about?
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May 16, 2017 00:22
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Yeah, Jacquel and Ibis are some of the most benevolent Gods in the book. The least dodgy of an admittedly pretty dodgy bunch.
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May 16, 2017 00:24
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:That's really more a problem with the book, it's just kind a product of the hard on the 90s had for neo-paganism. So it just sort of played fast and loose with its rules to bring in the gods Gaiman wanted to showcase. Yeah, it certainly seems more probable that we'd see gods of Central and South America - not to mention Mexico - wandering around North America than ancient Egyptian ones. But I don't recall any being mentioned offhand, though it's been a while since I read the book.
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May 16, 2017 00:38
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:That's really more a problem with the book, it's just kind a product of the hard on the 90s had for neo-paganism. So it just sort of played fast and loose with its rules to bring in the gods Gaiman wanted to showcase. Honestly, neo-paganism has extended in popularity quite a bit since the book was first written. I have several friends personally that are Odinists even. And in the last 25 years, Olympianism has slowly and quietly come back as well. In the information age, a lot of people are turning to the older ways if for no other reason, than being sick of what is done in the name of the popular Gods. Also I would agree that the Egypt craze of the 19th and 20th centuries DEFINITELY instilled awareness of that pantheon with enough reverence to keep going a while.. Regarding the weighing ceremony, I didn't get any maliciousness out of it. Recall that Bast is still a cat, and cats have no morals but their own. I believe it was both impatience, as well as answering the woman's impudent question about not being sure if she's worshiping the right God--"Too bad, no take backsies." EDIT: ^^^ And just how many Americans do you know that feel awe at the very idea of Xipe Totec? Not friggin many. It'd be interesting to see them incorporate Santa Muerte however, She's quickly gaining a LOT of followers from what I hear. Explicitly being the Goddess of outcasts and criminals kinda makes you enduring that way. Choco1980 fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 00:42
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:That's really more a problem with the book, it's just kind a product of the hard on the 90s had for neo-paganism. So it just sort of played fast and loose with its rules to bring in the gods Gaiman wanted to showcase. May Anubis has basically become the defacto god of death since there is no reason Laura should be meeting him in the preview
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May 16, 2017 02:12
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Choco1980 posted:
I was thinking of an Urban Fantasy series I'd been reading (Eric Carter). Most UF novels feature a lot of European stuff, but the only Gods knocking around in this series so far are the Aztec ones, strongly featuring Santa Muerte as an aspect of Mictēcacihuātl. The protagonist is cornered into marrying her. The series also includes her former husband, Mictlantecuhtli, Quetzalcoatl, plus a trip to Mictlan in book 3. .
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May 16, 2017 02:29
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I don't see how this adaptation could better tbqh, I am loving this series
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May 16, 2017 02:40
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Quezocoatl is in a lot of people's minds because of Final Fantasy  But also, I would think there would be a God soaking up all of the Nazca Line theorycrafting and 
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May 16, 2017 03:03
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With regards to "nothing but a void" being behind that door, I recall seeing like stars or a funky night sky and stuff vaguely in the background. Which seems consistent with the Egyptian afterlife which is kind of like Egypt but weird https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat Like yeah I didn't get the sense he was doing anything but doing what Anubis did, shuttling her to the afterlife. He doesn't tell her which door to go through because that's not what Anubis does or what people believed he did. He's constructed from people's beliefs and gets power by fulfilling those beliefs. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 03:05
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There's probably all kinds of Mesoamerican gods but they're probably mostly active south of the US border, which the book unfortunately doesn't have time to explore. With the longer run of the show, maybe they could do a "coming to america" for some other areas that the book didn't get around to.
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May 16, 2017 03:06
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Like yeah I didn't get the sense he was doing anything but doing what Anubis did, shuttling her to the afterlife. He doesn't tell her which door to go through because that's not what Anubis does or what people believed he did. He's constructed from people's beliefs and gets power by fulfilling those beliefs. I mean, I obviously concede that I'm reading (too much) into the scene, but I would think we can all agree that she didn't go to an actual afterlife, I don't think it's within the scope of the American Gods' powers to create a whole afterlife when they have to take jobs as cabbies and funeral directors. That would also explain why he doesn't tell her which door her father is behind; he's not behind any of them.
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May 16, 2017 03:32
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Of course Gods don't create afterlifes. we do.
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May 16, 2017 03:42
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Even in mythology Anubis didn't create the Duat, he's just the ferryman. The fabric of the universe, and all that happens to souls when they pass, functions with or without the gods; they were created by cosmology, not the other way around.* *exceptions may apply Of course, if we see Mrs. Fadil floating next to Erect Penis Man in the great soul-eaten cosmos during the next episode, then sure the whole thing was probably a scam. But the scene as is didn't come across particularly sinister to me.
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May 16, 2017 04:25
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angerbeet posted:I don't see how this adaptation could better tbqh, I am loving this series The adaptation could be better if Fuller was showing total disdain for the source material, like Hannibal. As it is, he's polishing a turd with an extremely awesome level of talent, but it remains a turd at its core.
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May 16, 2017 04:40
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Like if the show opened with someone named "Bleal Blaiman" getting pushed off a cliff, and then went in an entirely different direction that didn't involve edgey hot topic bullcrap, then I'd like it a lot more, but I'll take whatever I can get.
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May 16, 2017 04:41
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BrianWilly posted:Even in mythology Anubis didn't create the Duat, he's just the ferryman. The fabric of the universe, and all that happens to souls when they pass, functions with or without the gods; they were created by cosmology, not the other way around.* Right, he's a psychopomp, like Charon, Shiva or the Grim Reaper. Which is the point about fudging things a bit, according to the rules in the book, the myth of the Grim Reaper is so ubiquitous so there's no real reason he shouldn't used instead of Anubis. But that wouldn't fit the theme of the book; that America, from the brick foundation to the soul at it's core is created from the immigrant experience.
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May 16, 2017 05:03
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Zaphod42 posted:If they've been living in the US for awhile its not crazy that they'd switch back and forth, like Spanglish. They used Arabic in order to form common ground and bond, but then they switch to English because its more comfortable for them even if Arabic was their mother tongue. IDK seems believable to me. I'm bilingual and I swear in both languages interchangeably, sometimes in the same sentence.
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May 16, 2017 05:12
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And, man, I never thought I would ever watch a gay sex scene involving an efreet. What a time to be alive.
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May 16, 2017 05:19
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enraged_camel posted:I'm bilingual and I swear in both languages interchangeably, sometimes in the same sentence. Also, to be fair, many Arab countries are bi-lingual. I know at least the UAE speaks both Arabic and English regularly.
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May 16, 2017 05:46
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sector_corrector posted:Like if the show opened with someone named "Bleal Blaiman" getting pushed off a cliff, and then went in an entirely different direction that didn't involve edgey hot topic bullcrap, then I'd like it a lot more, but I'll take whatever I can get. Speaking of edgy bullshit: your posts
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May 16, 2017 12:54
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Calling Neil Gaiman "Hot Topic bullshit" just tells me that a hot goth girl once broke your heart and you still haven't gotten over it.
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May 16, 2017 14:16
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That dude's a little testy about it but no, Neil Gaiman's just not a very good writer, especially outside of the comic medium.
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May 16, 2017 14:44
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precision posted:Calling Neil Gaiman "Hot Topic bullshit" just tells me that a hot goth girl once broke your heart and you still haven't gotten over it. A hot goth girl broke my heart and I still haven't gotten over it. I did the healthy, mature thing and infinitely blamed myself. Resigning to probably never be as happy as I was with her again.
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May 16, 2017 14:44
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That dude's a little testy about it but no, Neil Gaiman's just not a very good writer, especially outside of the comic medium. Stardust, Coraline, Anansi Boys and Ocean at the End of the Lane are great. That said, even if he is a "bad writer", he isn't "hot topic bullshit". Crooked Little Vein and Avenged Sevenfold are "hot topic bullshit". Neil Gaiman comes from the older, possibly sillier, but less annoying school of Ye Danse Macabre Like, he has more in common with Siouxie Sioux than Fall Out Boy
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May 16, 2017 15:03
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precision posted:Stardust, Coraline, Anansi Boys and Ocean at the End of the Lane are great. That said, even if he is a "bad writer", he isn't "hot topic bullshit". Crooked Little Vein and Avenged Sevenfold are "hot topic bullshit". Neil Gaiman comes from the older, possibly sillier, but less annoying school of Ye Danse Macabre lol, looks like we've got ourselves an expert on hot topic bullshit here. Unsurprisingly, they are a Neil Gaiman fan.
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May 16, 2017 15:46
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Only tangentially related to the show, but since we're book readers here: https://twitter.com/terryandrob/status/864187955660947456 terry pratchett - GNU terry Pratchett Neil Gaiman - author and nice guy. Joe Lewis - amazon's head of comedy, drama, vr. Caro Skinner - BBC studios executive producer Chris Sussman - head of comedy BBC Studios Tim Bradley - tv producer double nine fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 16:34
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