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sector_corrector posted:lol, looks like we've got ourselves an expert on hot topic bullshit here. Unsurprisingly, they are a Neil Gaiman fan. Perhaps you'd feel more at home in this American Gods thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3819718
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May 16, 2017 16:38
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double nine posted:Only tangentially related to the show, but since we're book readers here: Yeah, BBC is making Good Omens for Amazon next year.
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May 16, 2017 16:50
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precision posted:Yeah, BBC is making Good Omens for Amazon next year. Oh hell yes. (tentatively) a kitten fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 17:04
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a kitten posted:Oh hell yes. (tentatively) And also, literally 
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May 16, 2017 17:13
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Wizchine posted:I was thinking of an Urban Fantasy series I'd been reading (Eric Carter). Most UF novels feature a lot of European stuff, but the only Gods knocking around in this series so far are the Aztec ones, strongly featuring Santa Muerte as an aspect of Mictēcacihuātl. The protagonist is cornered into marrying her. The series also includes her former husband, Mictlantecuhtli, Quetzalcoatl, plus a trip to Mictlan in book 3. . Totally off-topic, but are they any good? I like the genre but there are a lot of terrible writers working in it. I think I passed the Eric Carter stuff over because the cover looked really cheap and reminded me of a really awful self-published kindle UF series that I picked up the first 2 books for less than a pound (and still felt ripped off). The Hellaquin chronicals I think that was called? I'm looking for a new urban fantasy series thats not complete trash, or is at least enjoyable trash.
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May 16, 2017 17:24
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Why does Terry Pratchett have an active Twitter account two years after his death?
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May 16, 2017 18:52
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Dr. Clockwork posted:Why does Terry Pratchett have an active Twitter account two years after his death? It's run by his former assistant.
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May 16, 2017 19:00
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When I was a teenager, and into my early 20s, I was a super-duper Gaiman fanboy. Heck, I met the woman who would become my ex-wife and mother to my child through a Sandman yahoo group. That said, as I've gotten older, I've realized that he has really big flaws I was ignoring. He's got some absolutely fantastic writing-Sandman for instance definitely holds up, and Overture felt like a return to old friends in that regard as he brought his a-game with him, but he just as often phones it in-Eternals for instance. His novels can be okay, but he goes to the same well far too often. Think about how many of his stories involve a seemingly normal person, who meets a mysterious, possibly magical or alien stranger, who whisks him away on a crazy adventure where the previously thought ordinary protagonist becomes the key to saving everything? How often does he invoke the Mother-Maiden-Crone trope? Really, I would say his best material is his short fiction, as there he is much more efficient and economical with the good bits, not having to add predictive side stories or whatever.
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May 16, 2017 19:09
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Fun fact: Czernabog (as Chernabog) is also the name of that big black devil guy from the Fantasia scene. In his last days before being relegated to nonbelief he was conflated with the christian devil as the slavs were converted. Also IIRC there is no extant reference or fairy tale referring to Bielebog, but his existance can be presumed because there are places named after Czernabog that are often twinned with places that logically would be named after Bielebog (eg Black God Hill next to an auspiciously-named White God Hill.)
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May 16, 2017 19:16
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I am surprised there is no mention of Bacchus/Dionysus or Mammon. Drink, sex and feminism for the former with greed and money for the latter (especially after 2008, you would expect him to be a banker). Or am I misremembering?
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May 16, 2017 19:25
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I know in the past Gaiman mentioned he intentionally kept away from the Greek/Roman Pantheon.
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May 16, 2017 19:28
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Choco1980 posted:When I was a teenager, and into my early 20s, I was a super-duper Gaiman fanboy. Heck, I met the woman who would become my ex-wife and mother to my child through a Sandman yahoo group. That said, as I've gotten older, I've realized that he has really big flaws I was ignoring. He's got some absolutely fantastic writing-Sandman for instance definitely holds up, and Overture felt like a return to old friends in that regard as he brought his a-game with him, but he just as often phones it in-Eternals for instance. His novels can be okay, but he goes to the same well far too often. Think about how many of his stories involve a seemingly normal person, who meets a mysterious, possibly magical or alien stranger, who whisks him away on a crazy adventure where the previously thought ordinary protagonist becomes the key to saving everything? How often does he invoke the Mother-Maiden-Crone trope? Really, I would say his best material is his short fiction, as there he is much more efficient and economical with the good bits, not having to add predictive side stories or whatever. I've more than once noticed a scene in one of his novels as being straight-up lifted from Sandman. In Neverwhere it happens in like the first five pages! I really didn't find anything worthwhile about Overture though, personally. Which was disappointing, I hyped myself up for it far too much.
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May 16, 2017 19:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Fun fact: Czernabog (as Chernabog) is also the name of that big black devil guy from the Fantasia scene. In his last days before being relegated to nonbelief he was conflated with the christian devil as the slavs were converted. The bit at the end of the book where Chery is much lighter colored and happier and muses that perhaps he and Biel were one in the same stems from the ambiguity of this theory and how Bielebog might not have actually existed in the faith.
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May 16, 2017 19:37
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I'm getting real strong Sandman vibes from this show as it is. Especially the Anubis scene in this episode reminded me very much of an.early Sandman issue where Dream follows Death around as she takes some souls.
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May 16, 2017 20:07
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Choco1980 posted:His novels can be okay, but he goes to the same well far too often. Think about how many of his stories involve a seemingly normal person, who meets a mysterious, possibly magical or alien stranger, who whisks him away on a crazy adventure where the previously thought ordinary protagonist becomes the key to saving everything? How often does he invoke the Mother-Maiden-Crone trope? Really, I would say his best material is his short fiction, as there he is much more efficient and economical with the good bits, not having to add predictive side stories or whatever. I would be very wary of anyone who's a Neil Gaiman fan that doesn't admit he has a terrific number of flaws. In a way, that's part of the charm. As a prose writer, he probably barely makes it into the top 100 if I'm being honest. I will say though, his nonfiction essays and speeches (collected in "The View From the Cheap Seats") are markedly better than his fiction from a technical standpoint. Well before I read Sandman, the first thing of his I read was his book about The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I don't even remember if it was good, though I'm pretty sure it was/is. e: For reference: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Panic-Official-Hitchhikers-Companion/dp/0671664263 precision fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 20:11
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The whole concept of "Gods down on their luck and working menial jobs" is from Sandman too. Ishtar is a pole dancer who holds back her full power, but one day she lets loose with her sexiest dance ever and all the men watching her die from cumming too hard. You can see the line connecting her to Bilquis. Sandman also shows Bast, bored because she doesn't have followers anymore. Dream appears differently to different people. He appears as a cat to a dreaming cat. He has cat eyes when he meets Bast. Martian Manhunter sees him as a flaming skull. Anansi appears as a 70's jazzman to us and as a spider to his followers (in the TV show is this a Fuller thing or is this a Gaiman thing?) I don't mind too much because I can pretend to myself that these are just additional stories in the Sandman universe. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 20:19
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I like Neil Gaiman a lot, obviously, but I think I do sort of enjoy his imagination a bit more than I enjoy his actual writing. And the amount of research that goes into his stuff is pretty cool. I was a huge mythology/folklore nerd as a kid, and he sort of rekindled my interest in it as an adult, which I'm kinda grateful for. Plus Sandman and this show have rad art, and I think his stuff is helped a lot by having a visual element
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May 16, 2017 20:20
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He's also just a really nice guy. 12 or so years ago one of my good friends (who was what one would term a "perkygoth") had met him at a few conventions and carried on regular email correspondence with her, and through that I got to hang out with him after a comic convention for an hour or so. He was very funny and humble and not at all a dour gothic mopeypuss.
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May 16, 2017 20:24
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Steve Yun posted:Dream appears differently to different people. He appears as a cat to a dreaming cat. He has cat eyes when he meets Bast. Martian Manhunter sees him as a flaming skull. Anansi appears as a 70's jazzman to us and as a spider to his followers (in the TV show is this a Fuller thing or is this a Gaiman thing?) Knowing Fuller and Gaiman's work in the past, I'm going to say proooobably both are responsible for Anansi looking like a spider in a suit to the prisoners. Also, didn't Gaiman sneak a sentence or two about Delirium hanging out with the 90s hippies when Shadow met Easter? I swear he singles out a girl in his description that absolutely matches her.
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May 16, 2017 21:26
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Anyone who tries to categorize him as a goth is doing so 100% from his hair (rip) and the fact he likes wearing black. None of his fiction backs that up in any way.
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May 16, 2017 21:28
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Choco1980 posted:When I was a teenager, and into my early 20s, I was a super-duper Gaiman fanboy. Heck, I met the woman who would become my ex-wife and mother to my child through a Sandman yahoo group. That said, as I've gotten older, I've realized that he has really big flaws I was ignoring. He's got some absolutely fantastic writing-Sandman for instance definitely holds up, and Overture felt like a return to old friends in that regard as he brought his a-game with him, but he just as often phones it in-Eternals for instance. His novels can be okay, but he goes to the same well far too often. Think about how many of his stories involve a seemingly normal person, who meets a mysterious, possibly magical or alien stranger, who whisks him away on a crazy adventure where the previously thought ordinary protagonist becomes the key to saving everything? How often does he invoke the Mother-Maiden-Crone trope? Really, I would say his best material is his short fiction, as there he is much more efficient and economical with the good bits, not having to add predictive side stories or whatever. So? 99% of fiction is "good guy goes on adventure, saves the world" that doesn't mean its bad inherently. Its how you tell the story, and Gaiman's pretty good at that. Collateral posted:I am surprised there is no mention of Bacchus/Dionysus or Mammon. Drink, sex and feminism for the former with greed and money for the latter (especially after 2008, you would expect him to be a banker). We mentioned before he avoided Roman pantheon because it was too well known / cliche. Vulkan being added to the show is an exception for a specific reason as was previously mentioned. Read da thread it ain't that long  Julio Cruz posted:Anyone who tries to categorize him as a goth is doing so 100% from his hair (rip) and the fact he likes wearing black. None of his fiction backs that up in any way. He's really more about fairy tales and oral traditions than goth style. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 21:44
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Julio Cruz posted:Anyone who tries to categorize him as a goth is doing so 100% from his hair (rip) and the fact he likes wearing black. None of his fiction backs that up in any way. It happens because Death and Dream were superficially the poster children for goth kids. I don't know any goth chicks that didn't try to pull off either an ankh necklace or the Eye of Isis mascara look.
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May 16, 2017 21:56
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Gaiman was never shy about the fact that he found Goth culture beautiful and sexy either. That's why he threw it in so many pieces in the 90s and early 00s.
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May 16, 2017 22:01
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It happens because Death and Dream were superficially the poster children for goth kids. I don't know any goth chicks that didn't try to pull off either an ankh necklace or the Eye of Isis mascara look. Eh, the ankh was cool with goths prior to Sandman ever being published, though.
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May 17, 2017 00:49
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Choco1980 posted:Gaiman was never shy about the fact that he found Goth culture beautiful and sexy either. That's why he threw it in so many pieces in the 90s and early 00s. He's also married to Amanda Palmer and is a fan of 80s/90s goth music.
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May 17, 2017 00:58
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There is also the fact that he is married to Amanda Palmer (who is terrible). e:fb
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May 17, 2017 01:02
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Amanda Palmer is a soulsucking harpy and we will likely never get anything new and good out of him because he's too busy living out his goth cuckold fantasy.
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May 17, 2017 02:26
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Zurui posted:Amanda Palmer is a soulsucking harpy and we will likely never get anything new and good out of him because he's too busy living out his goth cuckold fantasy. They're swingers. Do Not Worry About Neil Gaiman.
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May 17, 2017 02:56
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Choco1980 posted:Also, didn't Gaiman sneak a sentence or two about Delirium hanging out with the 90s hippies when Shadow met Easter? I swear he singles out a girl in his description that absolutely matches her. Yeah, it sort of implies that's Delerium and with the dog Barnabus. Theoretically it takes place roughly the same time as Sandman volume 9 when Delerium is wandering around LA and San Francisco.
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May 17, 2017 03:02
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precision posted:Egyptian Gods weren't in the novel at all, aside from Bast, IIRC. And Bast = cats so it's pretty clear how she's still here.
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May 17, 2017 03:23
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precision posted:Egyptian Gods weren't in the novel at all, aside from Bast, IIRC. And Bast = cats so it's pretty clear how she's still here.
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May 17, 2017 04:07
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coyo7e posted:Uhh, it's not her cat. She IS the cat I think that sentence meant "The lady's cat", not "Bast's cat" when it said "her cat"
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May 17, 2017 04:18
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Choco1980 posted:When I was a teenager, and into my early 20s, I was a super-duper Gaiman fanboy. Heck, I met the woman who would become my ex-wife and mother to my child through a Sandman yahoo group. That said, as I've gotten older, I've realized that he has really big flaws I was ignoring. He's got some absolutely fantastic writing-Sandman for instance definitely holds up, and Overture felt like a return to old friends in that regard as he brought his a-game with him, but he just as often phones it in-Eternals for instance. His novels can be okay, but he goes to the same well far too often. Think about how many of his stories involve a seemingly normal person, who meets a mysterious, possibly magical or alien stranger, who whisks him away on a crazy adventure where the previously thought ordinary protagonist becomes the key to saving everything? How often does he invoke the Mother-Maiden-Crone trope? Really, I would say his best material is his short fiction, as there he is much more efficient and economical with the good bits, not having to add predictive side stories or whatever. Neil Gaiman is such an exceptional Urban Fantasy author that he has actually broken the barrier and become a lovely fiction writer.
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May 17, 2017 07:40
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Normal Adult Human posted:Neil Gaiman is such an exceptional Urban Fantasy author that he has actually broken the barrier and become a lovely fiction writer. 
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May 17, 2017 07:45
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I'm enjoying the show but I struggle to see how it's appealing to anyone who hasn't read the books, I don't see any 'casuals' buying into this whole trippy nonsense for more than a season, particularly as this first one is going to end with a big 'wtf was that and why is it important?' moment.
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May 17, 2017 08:29
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It didn't make any sense at this point in the book either. Calm the gently caress down. Shadow is the audience surrogate.
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May 17, 2017 08:35
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Also - not even halfway through the season. But sure, if everyone wants everything spelled out from episode one maybe they shouldn't be idiots.
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May 17, 2017 08:36
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SiKboy posted:Totally off-topic, but are they any good? I like the genre but there are a lot of terrible writers working in it. I think I passed the Eric Carter stuff over because the cover looked really cheap and reminded me of a really awful self-published kindle UF series that I picked up the first 2 books for less than a pound (and still felt ripped off). The Hellaquin chronicals I think that was called? I'm looking for a new urban fantasy series thats not complete trash, or is at least enjoyable trash. I like his stuff. He writes a good pulp noir. And he writes well about the city of LA - he's not all taken in with the Hollywood stuff, which is what most writers can't help themselves from focusing on. My criticisms are that the protagonist isn't really well fleshed out, and some of the locations and action are sort of forgettable, but I enjoy it while I'm reading it. My advice is to read City of the Lost, first. It's a standalone that takes place in the same LA, with one or two of the same supporting characters, but the protagonist (Joe Sunday) is more colorful than Eric Carter. (That book doesn't go into the Aztec stuff, though.) If you like his writing, though, you'll enjoy the Eric Carter series, too.
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May 17, 2017 08:44
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Wizchine posted:I like his stuff. He writes a good pulp noir. And he writes well about the city of LA - he's not all taken in with the Hollywood stuff, which is what most writers can't help themselves from focusing on. My criticisms are that the protagonist isn't really well fleshed out, and some of the locations and action are sort of forgettable, but I enjoy it while I'm reading it. Cool, I'll give him a try, thanks!
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May 17, 2017 16:38
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 18:36 |
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Watching this show I can't help but be sad that Hannibal was on network TV. Think of all the weiner filled murder monuments we missed out on.
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May 18, 2017 00:34
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