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I own Cyber Sleuth, I haven't played it yet because my backlog is huge. I realize it's not the Adventure Kids but from just looking at the cover I do like that they look sort of similarly designed, like they could have come out of the same universe. I don't know where "ground zero" of fandom is because this property is rooted in Tamagotchi, but in Japan it's obvious that they made an anime to support a toy line, and in the US it felt like a new anime appeared with a toy line to support it. Again, Tamagotchi etc was kind of a bust in America since so many people can own a cat or dog if they want to. Tamagotchi is pure "I Love The 90s" bait now, and yet still it probably has higher brand recognition for being one of those LED pet simulators than Digimon does, which will have higher recognition as an anime with games and action figures. I was at ground zero for Adventure US fandom, and almost nobody was aware of a wider franchise beyond Adventure. I can only say that Toei somewhat is responsible for their own demise here, since Pokémon still has the same 10 year old kid trying to make the world's most killer Pokémon team, and Team Rocket is still trying to achieve world domination through "Catch That Pikachu", and nothing has changed, and it's as profitable as ever. Adventure took the decision to actually age the kids up into life and let them walk off into the sunset, and that just isn't a wise decision for a property whose primary purpose is selling toys unless those characters are really unpopular, which I don't think the Adventure characters were. They left money on the table by making a property that was much larger and spanned more characters than what they initially presented, and cycling some favorites out for new ones. They did what was right for creating quality televised genre fiction, but they did what was worse for running a property that exists to sell toys. It's probably the second biggest mistake since Transformers killed off everyone's toys and tried to sell them on Rodimus Prime and a new generation that few people liked. People wanted, and still want, to see the same universe with Optimus Prime leading the Autobots as he did in the 80s. That's where the money is.
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May 22, 2017 01:57
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It's depressing to hear it said like that. The dichotomy of either outgrowing your toys, or watching them be stuck in perpetual adolescence. 
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May 22, 2017 02:05
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But it's not, really. Transformers has been an Evergreen property since the 1980's, and it only slowed down in the earlier part of the 90's because they ran out of new stuff to keep showing to kids. It reinvigorated itself when it quite literally changed everything. Even the poorly dubbed anime made Hasbro a lot of money. The idea that Transformers "needs" to go back to the 80's is a pop culture conceit, and while the franchise is making lots of money based on nostalgia now, it's regularly incorporating new ideas. Meanwhile, a comparatively more static franchise like GI Joe is floundering. Even Pokemon has a new cast of characters regularly surrounding Ash, and the games rely on introducing new monsters as much as leaning on the old - which need "newness" themselves to help stay relevant. I'm not so certain your analogy really works for Digimon, either. Bandai's properties have succeeded from year to year by reinvention; its cousins, super sentai, kamen rider, and precure have survived by changing year to year. I don't think that this is what Digimon did so much as the fact that the back half of Tamers and Frontier failed to hold onto kids' interests. The final quarter of Tamers is when Toei started losing people, and while it's a very intelligent and philosophical show, it just wasn't fun. Frontier was either just too late, or the gimmick not captivating enough. Inversely, Savers did alright in ratings and attempt to market to older fans (it did decently in the ratings, even beating out Shounen Jump mainstays), but its toys were marketed to kids - it effectively had an identity crisis that hurt its own marketing. Xros Wars was just a failure on every conceivable level - the xros loader sold like rear end, the card game was forgotten, and the anime's ratings were so bad it got moved to the death slot on another channel with little promotion. In the end though, I don't think it's neccessarily that Digimon changed things that limited its survivability, it's how they went about those changes, and now unfortunately a decade and a half later people are using their differences as an easy justification to trap the franchise in a much more limited box that may hurt its chances to grow again. When I talked about "ground zero" in the Digimon fandom, I mean Megchan's old board. Yeah, there's also been an Adventure bias, but I also remember people being excited for new Japanese card scans and translations, what the next chapter of V-Tamer would bring, what the hell the mysterious games about Ryou were all about. I dunno, there was this sense of excitement about the franchise's future instead of just constantly comparing it to the past. But I guess that's what happens when your fandom is younger. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 02:11
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It's entirely legacy and memorable stuff. AGUMON IS TAI'S DIGIMON ANGEMON IS A BIG DEAL that kind of stuff So then you get to Frontier where an Angemon is just kind of poo poo or the obvious one where Agumon wasn't Tai's partner. Some of it is understandable though. When those specific designs are used, they shouldn't be used again for another character. You have to change them up. People hit this hard with Super hero stuff too, not just the toy related franchises. If you don't make Batman A Certain Way people get really pissed off, despite the fact that Batman can be any number of things, and should CONTINUE to be changed and updated as time goes on.
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May 22, 2017 02:15
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Yeah, while I like the fact that Digimon actually has a plot and they keep switching things up to keep things fresh (as opposed to the Pokemon anime which is still following the same kid on an endless journey where the only things that change are the setting and the supporting cast), it's kind of a risky move in a franchise that's intended to promote a toyline. While it's not quite the huge phenomenon that Pokemon is they must be doing something right though as otherwise this series would have been canceled a long time ago.
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May 22, 2017 02:16
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Yeah, and the series where he's Tai's Digimon!! also flat out states he's not unique and that another one of his own kind stumbled into the real world and had an adventure with him. Again, there's the Adventure that everyone thinks exists, and the Adventure that is. You guys aren't giving toy designers enough credit. Lines that stagnate and keep things the way they were end up dying off, as I stated before in my earlier example of GI Joe. You evolve or you die. Not everything is as permanent as superheroes are, and even then you have to change Captain America's costume every few years and release an "arctic attack" Iron Man. Japan, which is still where Digimon primarily matters, is nowhere near as resistant to things changing every year, either.
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May 22, 2017 02:21
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You're rejecting the very real psychological phenomenon. We're just explaining why the fandom is like this, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.
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May 22, 2017 02:31
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I'm just trying to work through my own feelings about all this, I guess. The question of what this franchise is gonna do after Tri is over is a good one I think though, because it's making a lot of money and there's bound to be some follow up, and these kinds of people are ultimately going to be resistant to it.
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May 22, 2017 02:35
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It can be like Star Wars and just milk that nostalgia for all it's worth.
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May 22, 2017 02:36
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The way I see it is, with Tri If it gets us, the aging adult fanbase, more Good stories, not even necessarily related to the original series or any other series in fact, just good Digimon stories, that's a win for the fandom. If we only get pandering cash in stuff, where the quality drops and drops and drops, that's just how it goes. Digimon Tri is the first story in the franchise that's actually aimed at an older audience, and they're clearly finding their footing there. Ideally, after Tri, they could explore that further and make an original series, or even just an original movie with the property but aimed at the same group. Kamen Rider is doing something similar at the moment. They have the usual series for kids airing on TV, and they have an adult oriented series on Amazon Prime. It's been pretty successful so far.
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May 22, 2017 02:42
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Burkion posted:Digimon Tri is the first story in the franchise that's actually aimed at an older audience, and they're clearly finding their footing there. Ideally, after Tri, they could explore that further and make an original series, or even just an original movie with the property but aimed at the same group. I need to correct you on this one. Savers beat Tri on this, although Savers was aimed at teenagers rather than adults (the concept was the same though, aiming at the fanbase that watched Adventure in their childhood, that childhood was just that much closer back then) and Re: Digitize and Cyber Sleuth aimed at an older audience in the realm of video games. If anything, Tri was following the footsteps of the latter as Digimon's latest attempt to remain relevant: ignore the children (who are too focused on Yokai Watch right now) and aim at the adults that have nostalgia for the franchise. Of course, now Digimon's aiming at the children demographic as well, but with the idea of reinventing the franchise for the newer generation with Applimonsters, taking concepts from Yokai Watch and moving away from what Adventure defined as "Digimon", as said by the people behind the series itself. Although in reality, it's kind of the same but with the names changed. It's also good, and should get more discussion in this thread.
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May 22, 2017 03:06
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Applimon just feels like Digimon doing what so much of culture did, going "drat, smartphones exist, we should acknowledge that in our reboot." It's doing a Japanese-tailored version of what Wreck-It Ralph 2 is shaping up to look like (a bunch of wink-wink nudge-nudge callouts to various Silicon Valley brands and apps.) I gave up about the point the "dark" team member appeared, but it's cute and I liked the first ED. But to address what TFR's talking about, again, it's not limited to Digimon. There's supposedly a huge population of electric mice in the Pokémon world, but if you show customers one Pikachu, they're going to assume right off the bat that it's That Pikachu Which Hangs Out With Ash All The Time and not one of the thousands of others. Of course, the entire premise of Pikachu, beyond being super-toyetic, is coming up with a unique characteristic to Ash the TV character that was initially impossible for the kids playing Red/Blue (and sometimes Green) at home and make the character something more distinctive than the empty player persona he is in the game. Sentai/toku is an iffy comparison because, at least in the west, the subsequent two times they did dinosaur-themed powers they did one season that threw in a heavy dose of acknowledging the old series while also doing something new, and the second time there was almost nada and people dreamed of crossovers all day long. And likewise the marketing minds behind it are still making TV shows but assuming that older fans want nothing but MMPR; and specifically first season MMPR, given how the comic can't acknowledge later concepts except in alternate universes for some reason. The reality is Digimon has a whole bunch of characters and they can make mascots out of many others besides the Agumon line. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 06:09 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 06:06
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I see what you're saying, but america is always going to be a secondary priority for Digimon. I guess that's not really gonna affect the fandom in any way, but either way.
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May 22, 2017 06:18
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https://twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUK/status/866587483190022144
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May 22, 2017 16:33
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Marvel as they all keep their hands in their pockets like a kid on stage who was never taught where to keep his hands when giving a speech. Anyhoo, designs look good.
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May 22, 2017 16:51
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The only thing I care about for the game is that there aren't obvious top their digimon like in CS. I mean I like the game but there were obviously top tier digimon and bottom tier.
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May 22, 2017 19:34
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Covok posted:Marvel as they all keep their hands in their pockets like a kid on stage who was never taught where to keep his hands when giving a speech. i mean arata wears a blue onesie with a coat cape that is not a "good" design
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May 22, 2017 20:49
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It's a wonderful design, because it completely fits with and encapsulates what an actual human disaster Arata is. I mean. That's his actual character. An embarrassment of a human being who thinks being an obsessive nerd is cool while also trying to pass himself off as the "cool loner" of a group.
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May 22, 2017 23:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:The only thing I care about for the game is that there aren't obvious top their digimon like in CS. And they were both named PlaltinumNumemon.
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May 23, 2017 01:22
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May 23, 2017 18:42
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Okay wait a minute is that the same freaking mold as the original toy
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May 23, 2017 18:52
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No, there are some significant differences. The head is completely different, the shell pieces/wings don't connect to the back of it, and there are parts that are at least significantly remolded.
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May 23, 2017 19:02
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Is going to be interesting to see how adapt the digimon who didn't had previous transforming toys.
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May 23, 2017 19:07
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7020 yen, am I reading that right? Seventy loving dollars? 
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May 23, 2017 19:25
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PMush Perfect posted:7020 yen, am I reading that right? Tamashii stuff usually is. Combine it with being an update and improvement of an older figure that was designed before modern limitations and standards, it's gonna drive the price up.
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May 23, 2017 20:23
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Look I had that thing as a kid. Well I had the Black War Greymon version- Digimon toys didn't come out where I lived until way into season 2 Still. That thing, even with some re-sculpting and nice paint, is not worth more then 20, 25 dollars. Unless they redid the build and how it works, the most I could see paying for it would be like 40 dollars. You could still get the Figuarts for 50 right now if you wanted. This is an over priced nostalgia grab, which makes me sad.
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May 23, 2017 20:39
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I can understand if you personally don't think it's worth it. But this is how the economics of this kind of stuff works out. It's unfortunate but that's how it goes.
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May 23, 2017 21:08
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Look I'm just saying, the BUILD quality on these things were awful. Unless they've substantially improved the build of the figure itself, it's literally not worth the money they're asking for. It was a rickety mess that barely held together. A better sculpt and better plastic isn't going to fix a fundamentally flawed figure that was cheap by design and looks to work about the same. It's exactly like taking an old Transformers mold, putting a new head and some new paint on it, and then charging three times what it originally cost. They only do it not because that is what it would cost to be profitable, but because that is what they know they can charge.
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May 23, 2017 21:12
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... that's exactly what happened when they released older Transformers molds in reissue form, you realize. Like pretty much universally. Even toys from ten years or so ago can be excessive compared to modern ones due to engineering and parts count. Doing a smaller run can also drive up the price.
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May 23, 2017 21:17
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also, comparing them directly There's not really very many shared pieces. The new one clearly takes inspiration from the original, but the actual sculpt and molding of the various components in each mode are completely different. This is effectively a completely new toy.
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May 23, 2017 21:24
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That thing looks neat as heck, but I basically paid $15 for the same toy in like 2003. Although the difference between a $20 figuart and a $20 Marvel Legends type toy is flooring now I don't think that thing is worth more than $30
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May 24, 2017 06:42
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Good quality plastic and a better paint job doesn't make up for the fact that it's basically a shellformer. Not for $70, anyways. I could see $40, maybe even $50 if they were really pushing it, but $70? Jesus gently caress, no. I could get a Figuarts for that price. Admittedly, the actually-good WarGreymon Figuarts is $135, so maybe they're just keeping true to form. (And don't tell me it's about component quality, because the companion MetalGarurumon is $50.) Edit I am getting unreasonably mad about children's monster toys. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 07:37 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 07:30
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PMush Perfect posted:Good quality plastic and a better paint job doesn't make up for the fact that it's basically a shellformer. Not for $70, anyways. I could see $40, maybe even $50 if they were really pushing it, but $70? Jesus gently caress, no. I could get a Figuarts for that price. What's the difference between that WarGreymon and this one?
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May 24, 2017 07:40
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:What's the difference between that WarGreymon and this one?
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May 24, 2017 07:43
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PMush Perfect posted:That one's a 5-inch. Er, 140 mm is also 5 inches. In fact, looking around it seems the only difference are the paint apps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r087GLuJwi0
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May 24, 2017 08:03
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I also had that Toy. Wasn't great.
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May 24, 2017 08:04
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The Our War Game based Figuart is better anyway.
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May 24, 2017 08:07
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Er, 140 mm is also 5 inches. In fact, looking around it seems the only difference are the paint apps
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May 24, 2017 08:10
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https://twitter.com/hobby_magazine/status/867689257019863040 Neat
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May 25, 2017 16:07
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At least it's not Renamon
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May 25, 2017 16:10
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