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It depends on the group and passing rules. If someone is real dick, I'll talk to them after the session is over. If someone is chronically not checking their mirrors and drag racing you on the straights, I'd rather pop into the pits for half a lap to hopefully never see them again.
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May 23, 2017 18:17
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BlackMK4 posted:I don't know how you guys in Miatas keep sane. Riding a slow bike isn't bad because there is PLENTY of room to pass someone slow on a fast bike... but not in a car. Seems like it would get frustrating real quick. I actually really like it. In group 1 it was annoying (very little awareness of holding up a slow car/fast driver) but in group 2 it forced me to really push my brake markers back and carry tons of speed. By the end of my 2nd day I was passing C6 corvettes.... while still giving lots of point bys. You're right, it's not nearly as easy to make a pass as on a bike but it's still great. I'm learning and learning quickly. Having a 1.6 miata is the best tool 
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May 23, 2017 18:23
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BlackMK4 posted:Edit: holy gently caress, murray motorsport is $539.55 SHIPPED for an Evo. Sparco Evos are ~$415 Ex. VAT here in northern Europe. I just installed a used one in my car after trying one i a friends cars. Feels nice and fits me well.
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May 23, 2017 20:33
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jamal posted:I could probably do something like 650 shipped on an evo, but not 540. But are you sure that's all it will be? No duty, extra delivery fees added on at the end? Their delivery price is legit. In the US doesn't the value have to be over $800 for duty? I had to pay like $450 duty on my race gear, but  . It was still far cheaper than local suppliers.
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May 24, 2017 01:00
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BlackMK4 posted:I don't know how you guys in Miatas keep sane. Riding a slow bike isn't bad because there is PLENTY of room to pass someone slow on a fast bike... but not in a car. Seems like it would get frustrating real quick. Honestly it bothered me a lot more in intermediate than in our advanced group. Novice meant instructors in the majority of cars, reminding students to point other cars by, etc. Didn't typically get held up, and when I did the instructor would talk to the instructor of the other car and it wouldn't happen again. Intermediate means people are let free of the instructor, have a little more confidence, start pushing more, and conveniently start to think they're the fastest thing on track, so why would they need their mirrors? It seems to be the biggest complaint in the intermediate sessions, and if pointed out an instructor will ride with someone who's causing problems. Our advanced group runs open passing. Onus is on the passer to complete a safe pass, but everyone is aware that this means you need to be prepared to be passed in a corner. What this typically means is that you get to try out a fun pass because the car ahead sees you catch them in a twisty section, points you by into the next corner, or along the inside, leaves you room, and then doesn't bother to pass you on the straight. Point by's not required, most seem to use them anyway. It's pretty heavily monitored as to who's signed off to run in the group, everyone has practice taking corners off line, a lot of guys have chumpcar experience, etc. And you can always just pull through the pits and never see the offending car again.
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May 24, 2017 06:57
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Wee! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVBUDe88x7c I took my '82 911 to Roebling Road this Monday and had a blast. Hawk pads and Motul 600 are a must for the straight there, but other than some high engine temps (Georgia in May), the car handled everything very well. I have a couple other quick clips on that channel and some GoPro footage I'm compiling as well (with a spin!). Really good time, and there were under 40 people there so the amount of track time I got was almost silly.
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May 24, 2017 21:01
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What's the goon opinion on the Azeni RT615k? At $300 for a full set of 205/50/15 it's tempting. Running no more than 30 minute sessions at a top speed of no more than 110 mph.
puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 01:37
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It's an old tire, but Dunlop Z2 Star Specs and Hankook RS4s are $450ish for a set. Depending on when they were made, the price is right if you're looking for a stickier tire. Just don't buy ones that have a manufacture date <= 2015.
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May 25, 2017 02:04
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Phone posted:It's an old tire, but Dunlop Z2 Star Specs and Hankook RS4s are $450ish for a set. These are brand new from Tire Rack so I assume the date codes will be decent and I pick them up from their warehouse so no shipping. I've been using Bridgestone RE-11s with a 21/14 date code for the past 5 track days and really liked them.
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May 25, 2017 02:44
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They'll be on par or a hair slower than the RE-11s. The tread pattern isn't very good at channeling out water, but it really comes down to how much you care about saving $150 (50%) on a set of tires versus going potentially 3 or 4 seconds faster on a 2 minute course.
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May 25, 2017 02:50
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Good point, I'm not at the level of even datalogging my laps yet. $150 is a TNIA event so my bias is toward getting a good tire rather than a perfect tire. The focus at this point is on getting more time on the course in to be a better driver. Thanks Phone.
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May 25, 2017 02:59
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With the $150 you saved, buy a cheap Android phone, a bluetooth GPS, and a phone mount and start data logging. 
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May 25, 2017 03:01
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Piggybacking on this discussion, I'm looking to get some decent summer tires for my Boxster, maybe 200-300AA. One non-standard 17" setup is 225/45, 255/40. The 2cm extra up front dials out some of the understeer, supposedly. I can get (ordered by wear rating): - POTENZA S-04 POLE POSITION ($578) - EXTREMECONTACT SPORT ($570) - G-FORCE RIVAL S 1.5 ($790) - PILOT SPORT PS2 ($851) - DIREZZA ZII STAR SPEC ($740) I've not driven the Pilot Sport PS2, only the Pilot Super Sport, which I loved. Have driven Star Specs, they feel greasy but are still good. Anyone know about the Extremecontact Sports? They don't have ratings on TireRack yet. Leaning toward the Potenza S-04 as a better wet and long distance tire over the Star Spec. But could be convinced to get Extremecontact Sport if anyone has experience.
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May 25, 2017 07:54
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Is that the DW?
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May 25, 2017 12:37
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kimbo305 posted:Piggybacking on this discussion, I'm looking to get some decent summer tires for my Boxster, maybe 200-300AA. Depends on use case: DD, Michelin Pilot Sport 4s Autocross, Rival S 1.5 Track, RE-71r (maybe hankook rs4), ZIISS lasts a bit longer but is slower If the ZIISS was greasy, you had too much tire pressure/got them too hot. Extremecontact Sport closes the performance gap to the pilot super sport/pilot 4s, but it still a half notch worse or so. YMMV.
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May 25, 2017 15:12
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Re71r's wear too fast for me to bother with them as a track tire, I've seen multiple people cord them at around the 5-7 hours of track time mark.
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May 25, 2017 15:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoWECHIclE0 I raced some people, then lost. Also there is nothing "in a straight line" about braking on the backstraight of VIR.
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May 25, 2017 17:08
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FatCow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoWECHIclE0 This is SO good. Dear Santa bring me enough money to go racing. *gets 3rd job*
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May 25, 2017 17:41
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TrueChaos posted:Re71r's wear too fast for me to bother with them as a track tire, I've seen multiple people cord them at around the 5-7 hours of track time mark. Depends on the weight of the car, setup, etc. It's the most commonly used tire in AER and the like, ideally your pace/setup should get them bald/cord at right around the 9 hour mark. YMMV of course.
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May 25, 2017 17:47
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What's the typical life of another ~200TW tire? Running A008Rs here in a stock miata.
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May 25, 2017 17:48
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Blaise posted:What's the typical life of another ~200TW tire? Running A008Rs here in a stock miata. So hard to make blanket statements, because all the manufacturers are cheating with the 200TW stamp now. RE-71r's, RS4's, Rival S's all have very short life spans, more like a 100TW tire. ZIISS and RS3's are closer to what a true 200TW should be, but are no longer competitive lap times wise. Miata's are extremely gentle on tires, so I don't have any exact lifespan numbers for those, but there is tons of info online, I'm sure Emilio Cervantes has hours posted somewhere about them.
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May 25, 2017 17:54
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Phone posted:Is that the DW? It's not labeled as such, but the marketing copy says it's designed for wet conditions: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...0S&autoModClar= crazzy posted:Extremecontact Sport closes the performance gap to the pilot super sport/pilot 4s, but it still a half notch worse or so. YMMV. For the price difference, I think I can live with it. The hard part about comparing tires is that very few of us have extensive experience driving different tires in all-else-held-equal conditions. So there's gonna be a lot of drift in how you subjectively recall/evaluate a tire model.
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May 25, 2017 18:01
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crazzy posted:all the manufacturers are cheating with the 200TW stamp now. I've noticed this. Is there not a standard MTS tire test standard to run these on?
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May 25, 2017 18:05
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Blaise posted:I've noticed this. Is there not a standard MTS tire test standard to run these on? I'd always heard that tire wear ratings were manufacturer-specific and not based in reality at all. i.e. a Hankook TW200 and a Hankook TW600 could be compared to each other, but a Hankook TW200 and a Kumho TW200 could be wildly different.
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May 25, 2017 18:10
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That's what I've heard as well. They really should have a standard test like we do in aerospace to rate things. At least so it's consistent even if it's consistently cheating.
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May 25, 2017 18:12
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RS4s are marginally slower than RE71Rs, but wear significantly better according to the go fast shop owners over on Miataturbo. RE71Rs just melt, the RS4 is a continuation of the wears like iron trend of the RS3.
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May 25, 2017 18:57
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Extremecontact Sport was better than I thought it would be, but I would rather have Dunlop z2s. ExtremeContact Sport is 340tw though, vs 200 for direzza z2.
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May 25, 2017 19:13
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Are RS4s (or any of those really) usable as budget street tires? I've heard tell that Z2s are only a couple seconds slower than Hoosiers in the dry, and usable in the wet... it would be nice to have an intermediate tire instead of just chunking Hoosier H2Os.
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May 25, 2017 19:27
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mekilljoydammit posted:Are RS4s (or any of those really) usable as budget street tires? I've heard tell that Z2s are only a couple seconds slower than Hoosiers in the dry, and usable in the wet... it would be nice to have an intermediate tire instead of just chunking Hoosier H2Os. I mean, if you don't drive much they are usable, but will have pretty short life spans, be loud as hell, really stiff ride, etc. All of the 200TW tires are way off the pace of a hoosier, depending on the track, a few seconds (5 or more) is about right depending on the car/driver/etc. Hoosier H2O's are way faster than any of the 200TW's in the rain. The 200TW's are only good in the rain when brand new, wet performance seems to fall off a cliff as they wear. If you are racing, hoosier/slicks/rains are a must if the series allows it (won't be competitive otherwise). If you are DE'ing or open tracking, 200TW tires are a waaaaaay better use of $.
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May 25, 2017 19:33
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crazzy posted:I mean, if you don't drive much they are usable, but will have pretty short life spans, be loud as hell, really stiff ride, etc. I'm running wheel to wheel - I'm up against Hoosier R7s being about $300-400/weekend; this is a price I'm resigned to. I would occasionally like to do shakedowns on public roads without worrying about getting a rock through the R7s, and I would like something better than R7s if the track gets wet. At the same time, I don't want to shell out the $1200 for something that mostly just sits, and apparently will only live for a session or two before chunking.
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May 25, 2017 19:51
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mekilljoydammit posted:I'm running wheel to wheel - I'm up against Hoosier R7s being about $300-400/weekend; this is a price I'm resigned to. I would occasionally like to do shakedowns on public roads without worrying about getting a rock through the R7s, and I would like something better than R7s if the track gets wet. At the same time, I don't want to shell out the $1200 for something that mostly just sits, and apparently will only live for a session or two before chunking. If that's the use case, the re71r/rs4/z2ss are completely usable, and are a hell of a lot better than an r7 in the rain. Someone with fresh 0 heat cycle hoosier h2o's will be faster, but as a compromise the 200tw tires are fantastic. I personally did not like the re71r in the rain when they were 50% tread or less, I think the rs4 and z2ss are supposed to be better in that regard.
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May 25, 2017 20:14
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I will testify that RS-3s wear great but were awful in the wet. Paging Jamaal(?) on Global Time Attack rules interpretation: Street Class. For C.3 on suspension, it states "Aftermarket Suspension control arms may only be stock geometry or commonly available toe/camber adjusters." Does this mean you can't have roll-center correction from your LCA? There are stock arms with RCA bushings/ball joints. Those are legal but aftermarket LCAs with the same correction are illegal. Or, is this refering to you can't change your mcpherson strut into a SLA geometry (using the stock pickup points). Technically having roll center correction, camber, and caster adjustment are all "stock geometry" (mcpherson) depending on what you mean by "geometry.
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May 25, 2017 20:18
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crazzy posted:If that's the use case, the re71r/rs4/z2ss are completely usable, and are a hell of a lot better than an r7 in the rain. Someone with fresh 0 heat cycle hoosier h2o's will be faster, but as a compromise the 200tw tires are fantastic. Yeah, it's basically for a "poo poo, they're not going to refund my entry fee now, might as well go on track" scenario. I did my driver's school in R7s in the rain, I do not want to repeat that.
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May 25, 2017 20:30
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If you are racing you will get absolutely smoked under braking on a street tire. Toyo RR seem to be the budget rain tire of choice.
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May 25, 2017 20:32
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Second hand knowledge: Hoosier H2Os fall off once they have a cycle in them. They stick like crazy at least once, but are slower than Super TW200s if they get warm. Also I think I saw a rumor about the compound possibly changing or has already been changed. Back to TW200 vs R comps... Hypothetical ladder mostly comprised of other people's test data (on a 2 min course): Last gen or even further back tires (Z1, RT615K, etc) +2-5 seconds Hankook RS3, Bridgestone Z2 +1 Hankook RS3 V2, BFG Rival, Bridgestone Z2 SS, Yokohama AD08R +/- 0 Hankook RS4 -1.5 Bridgestone RE71R, BFG Rival S/1.5 -1.5-2 Nitto NT01, Maxxis RC1 -2 Toyo RR -3 Hoosier R7 -5+ Last year's Super 200s (RE-71R and Rival S) were and wear incredibly fast. The RS4 is maybe a tad slower than them, but all reports from the go fast Miata crew and Chumpcar forums have indicated that they will last and that they don't drop off. This year, only BFG's Rival 1.5 and Hankook RS4 have come out. Dunlop is well over due for their new TW200 tire, and I haven't seen anything either by Andy Hollis or GRM about a new Bridgestone.
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May 25, 2017 20:33
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^^ Thanks for this. Excellent. Hard to believe the RS4 and RE71s are that much stickier than my AD08s but AWESOME. Edit: Where's the Toyo R1R fit? Also, would you choose a 205 RE71 over a 225 RS4? I run 15x8 and I'm worried the 225 wont fit 
Blaise fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 20:59
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I'd be worried about the rolling resistance with your 1.6L motor (VVT swap, VVT swap, VVT swap); however, I'd choose the RS4 over the RE-71R. I put the original RS3 on a 15x7, it's fine. My reading is that Bridgestone wanted everyone at SCCA Autocross Nationals competing for Bridgestone bucks, and they got what they were after.
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May 25, 2017 21:30
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I guess I could just run the 195/50 RS4 as well. Hmph. Yeah yeah yeah VVT/boltons/PNPMS/6spd swap and done. Oh wait, It's a $1500 car 
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May 25, 2017 21:32
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40% (probably 50% in your case) increase in power to the wheels. :P The tire vs wheel width comes down to what was available, and with Hankook offering 245s in 15" and wheel manufacturers offering cheap 10" and even 11" wide wheels, it's definitely a good problem to have. A 200TW tire 205/50R15 is happy on an 8" wheel, they will fit onto a 9" wheel but it isn't appreciably faster. It's possible to squeeze a 225 onto a 6" wheel, but it's faster to run them on 9" (probably worth a few tenths, if not a whole second vs an 8" wheel) and feels better at the steering wheel and on the brakes. People who have driven the 245 RS4s are saying that you need 170-180whp+ in order to seriously justify them over a 225.
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May 25, 2017 21:45
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crazzy posted:Depends on the weight of the car, setup, etc. Drivers front at Calabogie in a 2100# Miata, where drivers front tires go to die. Looked at the thread, saw 26 posts and thought something interesting happened, but no, just tire chat. Note that if you're autocrossing, 245's make sense on a 9 in STR, as you can't run wider wheels in the class, and the lateral grip makes up for the aero / rolling resistance penalty from the 245. Just for track use don't bother unless you're over 170 ish HP as phone said. I'm torn, I lap and autox. I'll probably get 245 RS4's as it'll be the fastest long wearing tire on a 9" wheel, and I'm competitive in autox while there are no trophies for lapping. Im also buying a HANS device tomorrow. 
TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 01:26
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