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So something has been bugging me lately, maybe I missed or forgot something... Why did Reiner / Bertholdt (Reiner more specifically) think that just persuading / capturing Eren was enough for their return to Marley when they were on top of the wall after Utgarde, and during their reveal? Did they think bringing Eren and Ymir back was good enough and they (Reiner specifically, again...since Bert couldn't decide anything for himself) would be absolved, and their mission complete...? I know Reiner was super conflicted, so much so that his personality split. Maybe he was just so through with the mission, those two would be enough? At that point in time they had no idea that Eren had the "coordinate" or founding titan, they just knew he had the attack titan. They had also lost Annie...
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May 25, 2017 05:59
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:26 |
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They suspected that Eren had the coordinate titan.
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May 25, 2017 06:08
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They really were on the last wall the survey corps controlled. It was their best shot in a long time of grabbing Eren and escaping.
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May 25, 2017 06:36
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forhorglingrads posted:So something has been bugging me lately, maybe I missed or forgot something... Well, he had the Attack Titan. That's pretty good all on its own! They also weren't aware they had lost Annie. Remember, the entirety of that arc takes place on like, the day after Annie is captured. Connie and Sasha and the crew don't know about Annie either.
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May 25, 2017 07:08
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Also their speculation that Eren may have had the coordinate was stronger as well because they knew about his father.
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May 25, 2017 11:34
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Schwarzwald posted:They suspected that Eren had the coordinate titan. They attempted it because: 1) Desperation 2) Zeke had arrived 3) They were right on the wall, with the element of surprise 4) Not only did they identify the individual with titan power they had lost on arrival, she was incapacitated and easy to take with them 5) And as previously mentioned, they didn't know Annie had been discovered and captured The first two are the most important, as Reiner was beginning to break down, and Zeke around meant both that they had someone to report to and that they needed something to report ASAP. Going back empty-handed and a titan down (Marcel) would look horrible for them, but on the other hand, returning in full numbers and with a captured titan would be a great success even if it wasn't their original objective. They knew Eren was a titan that wasn't one of theirs, so he *might* be the one they were looking for - but Coordinate or not, the fact of being a titan shifter made him such a valuable military asset that it's probable just cause to cancel their mission and return to Marley in order to deliver him to their superiors.
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May 25, 2017 15:53
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I'm catching up on the manga thread right now. It's really funny to read reactions in retrospect to knowing what will happen in the story. Right now I'm to the point where Armin becomes the Colossal Titan and there's a civil argument about whether or not people liked that plot twist. What's really funny is frustrated commentators coming up with speculation why the story will just drag out and not get to the basement for another year or so, when the next chapter is going to be Chapter 85: The Basement.
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May 25, 2017 16:02
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It's less that people disliked the plot twist of armin becoming the colossal titan, and more that the sophie's choice of the whole situation felt really hamfisted, and armin's arc really felt rather complete. It'd even give Eren a whole "I wish you could see this" moment when he reached the ocean. And Erwin was a great character who could have advanced further.
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May 25, 2017 19:23
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Captain Invictus posted:It's less that people disliked the plot twist of armin becoming the colossal titan, and more that the sophie's choice of the whole situation felt really hamfisted, and armin's arc really felt rather complete. It'd even give Eren a whole "I wish you could see this" moment when he reached the ocean. And Erwin was a great character who could have advanced further. Yeah, you're correct. It's what I meant to say, but wasn't clear enough with my writing.
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May 25, 2017 22:22
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The colossal legacy was probably the first decision i came across in fiction where i wasn't 90-100% sure what the outcome of this "tough decision" would be. It's often blindingly obvious how these questions turn out, but here it wasn't. During the whole thing i went back and forth between the two. Both actually had merit on their own for and within the story, and as people. It actually felt like a decision. A tough one, even. I also liked that it was more or less Levi's decision, instead of Eren's posse being the driving force.
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May 26, 2017 05:52
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It felt forced in the way Armin was somehow still alive after having the skin burned off his body followed by a hundred feet fall, and the dying Erwin was conveniently brought back to be placed next to him... but as for how the situation itself played out and the themes it explored I'm good with. It was Levi's call and it put a nice bowtie on the relationship between the two men, calling back to when Levi made the decision for him to charge the Beast Titan, which itself references the way Erwin won Levi's loyalty by telling him to always make his own choices and never regret his decisions, for to do otherwise makes a man a hollow puppet just going through the motions until they die. The arc also showed a bit of teeth again by killing recurring primary characters, but in that context Armin over Erwin was the "safe" choice.
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May 26, 2017 06:36
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Yeah, that was the other thing. Armin was crispy-fried to a delicious golden brown in a matter of seconds, and THEN fell a hundred feet onto a roof. The flash-frying alone would kill literally any normal human, which Armin was at the time, whether from sheer shock or severe burning of the lungs(I believe it mentions his lungs getting hosed up, even). You don't get seared to perfection to the point where all your hair and clothes burn off and your lungs get poached and survive without IMMEDIATE medical treatment, and even then I'd say it's a tossup. And then he fell a hundred feet onto a roof, which again would kill basically anyone. This is a series where people have, generally, fairly realistically suffered physical consequences of things like slamming into a building at full speed from their 3DM Gear just completely wrecking them, or where Reiner tried to block Mikasa's sword and his arm got bisected lengthwise. Armin's insane injuries and surviving while they debated who to save rather than just jamming it in him immediately upon finding him(which might've been excusable) was just plain poorly done and one of the bigger gaffes of the series to me.
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May 26, 2017 11:58
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I think compounding that with Reiner escaping after getting clowned AGAIN makes it one of the dumbest parts of the series so far. So I'd agree with you.
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May 26, 2017 16:41
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Shinjobi posted:I think compounding that with Reiner escaping after getting clowned AGAIN makes it one of the dumbest parts of the series so far. So I'd agree with you. I was really sour about Reiner surviving, but I've warmed up to it a little after seeing the person he's become in the latest chapters. I guess we'll see if my opinion on Armin surviving changes, as well.
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May 26, 2017 17:03
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah, that was the other thing. Armin was crispy-fried to a delicious golden brown in a matter of seconds, and THEN fell a hundred feet onto a roof. The flash-frying alone would kill literally any normal human, which Armin was at the time, whether from sheer shock or severe burning of the lungs(I believe it mentions his lungs getting hosed up, even). You don't get seared to perfection to the point where all your hair and clothes burn off and your lungs get poached and survive without IMMEDIATE medical treatment, and even then I'd say it's a tossup. And then he fell a hundred feet onto a roof, which again would kill basically anyone. This is a series where people have, generally, fairly realistically suffered physical consequences of things like slamming into a building at full speed from their 3DM Gear just completely wrecking them, or where Reiner tried to block Mikasa's sword and his arm got bisected lengthwise. Armin's insane injuries and surviving while they debated who to save rather than just jamming it in him immediately upon finding him(which might've been excusable) was just plain poorly done and one of the bigger gaffes of the series to me.
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May 26, 2017 17:07
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reiner surviving and going back to Marley is definitely better for the story, the last few chapters have been a cool look into his society and I like his POV
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May 26, 2017 17:10
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I agree that this Marley stuff is justifying Reiner's escape after the fact, but at the time I was beside myself with just how dumb the whole scene was. How does this meathead cockroach find a way every damned time?
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May 26, 2017 17:22
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X years from now when the story is finally concluded, we'll fondly look back on it all and say, "boy, the retaking Wall Maria arc was kind of a low point, huh?"
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May 26, 2017 17:27
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Faustian Bargain posted:This is silly. This is a series about humans that are transformed into giant meat mechs. Try not to think about the specifics too much.
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May 26, 2017 18:39
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Both Reiner and Zeke surviving is frustrating merely from the reader's viewpoint of the heroes getting so close but not quite there to killing them. The consequences of them making their escapes, both plot-wise and what it the experience meant for the characters personally, are being handled very well. Reiner having PTSD was almost a given but it's interesting to explore, while Zeke coming out of it terrified of Levi was refreshing. Levi disassembling Monkey Business and then hounding him all the way out of Shiganshina with his tail between his legs, despite having a titan troop thrown his way, has got to be one of the most satisfying moments in the series, and it's only fitting that Zeke be left traumatized by it.
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May 27, 2017 01:03
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Conspiratiorist posted:Both Reiner and Zeke surviving is frustrating merely from the reader's viewpoint of the heroes getting so close but not quite there to killing them. that will make an excellent sequence in the anime in 6 or 8 years
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May 27, 2017 02:28
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah, that was the other thing. Armin was crispy-fried to a delicious golden brown in a matter of seconds, and THEN fell a hundred feet onto a roof. The flash-frying alone would kill literally any normal human, which Armin was at the time, whether from sheer shock or severe burning of the lungs(I believe it mentions his lungs getting hosed up, even). You don't get seared to perfection to the point where all your hair and clothes burn off and your lungs get poached and survive without IMMEDIATE medical treatment, and even then I'd say it's a tossup. And then he fell a hundred feet onto a roof, which again would kill basically anyone. This is a series where people have, generally, fairly realistically suffered physical consequences of things like slamming into a building at full speed from their 3DM Gear just completely wrecking them, or where Reiner tried to block Mikasa's sword and his arm got bisected lengthwise. Armin's insane injuries and surviving while they debated who to save rather than just jamming it in him immediately upon finding him(which might've been excusable) was just plain poorly done and one of the bigger gaffes of the series to me.
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May 27, 2017 03:57
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DaveKap posted:Keep in mind, though, that this is a series where people rarely insta-die, just as they rarely do in real life. More often than not people will be ripped limb from limb and still be screaming at the top of their lungs. Humans are very resilient in this series and they are in real life as well. Nobody instantly dies when they're shot in the gut (despite most of Hollywood thinking otherwise) just as Armin wouldn't instantly die from falling and burning. He was mere minutes from death, as he should be. Whether or not you die "instantly" from being shot in the gut depends quite a bit on 1) what you are shot with 2) where you get hit. If your major vessels (SVC or Aorta) get hit I'm pretty sure you will be dead in short order. Maybe not instantly, but quickly enough that no medical treatment would reasonably be able to save you. Armin was objectively dropped from a height that no person would be expected to survive. On top of that he was burnt to a crisp. It was patently absurd that he was still alive.
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May 27, 2017 04:18
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flowinprose posted:Armin was objectively dropped from a height that no person would be expected to survive. On top of that he was burnt to a crisp. It was patently absurd that he was still alive.
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May 27, 2017 04:20
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DaveKap posted:"He should be dead" is a phrase used enough in real life occurrences that survivability of strange consequences doesn't really bother me anymore. Real life can be stranger than fiction. That's because out of the millions of potentially lethal accidents that occur, even a 0.0001% chance of survival will result in ~100 people making it out alive by some fluke. Plus in those cases you're almost guaranteed to hear about it since it was such an incredible feat. This isn't real life. This is a story being told, and the facts are constructed by the author. This wasn't random chance, it was just poor writing.
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May 27, 2017 04:51
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the facts are constructed by the author. the author constructed it so a dude could be burned alive and fall a billion feet and survive. there it's all good stop being so weird yall
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May 27, 2017 04:58
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armin could kick all your asses without any gear or titan buffs
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May 27, 2017 05:40
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mandatory lesbian posted:the facts are constructed by the author. the author constructed it so a dude could be burned alive and fall a billion feet and survive. there it's all good stop being so weird yall The author should still try to be consistent with the facts he constructs. Armin surviving that was reeeeally stupid, no matter how good the payoff was.
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May 27, 2017 05:52
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there's nothing to contradict his survival. nobody has died to falling or being burned yet. it's consistent, even if only because it's the single example
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May 27, 2017 06:05
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Captain Invictus posted:Armin was crispy-fried to a delicious golden brown OK so I'm not the only one who thought of this? Maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_srPS_HbWg
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May 27, 2017 08:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbE8E1ez97M
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May 27, 2017 13:30
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Reddit pointed out something I'd missed in this episode - Eren and the Paradis crew don't know what monkeys are. The scouts call  the Beast Titan, but only Ymir and the outsiders are even aware that other primates exist.Once they get to the mainland, I want to see Hanji and co reacting to mainland wildlife in disbelief. Warthogs, penguins, lions, titan-sized underwater creatures called whales? Bullshit there's such a thing. ...does Paradis even have any dogs? We've seen cats, but I don't know that we've seen anyone with any other kind of pet.
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May 27, 2017 20:37
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I could have sworn there was some kind of Irish wolfhound looking dogs at some point, but maybe not.
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May 27, 2017 21:38
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I think there were some dogs during the Survey Corps manhunt.
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May 27, 2017 21:54
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Squidster posted:Reddit pointed out something I'd missed in this episode - Eren and the Paradis crew don't know what monkeys are. The scouts call We haven't seen any wildlife on the mainland either yet, it's possible that everything's been wiped out and that the Marely crew only know about them through books/education.
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May 27, 2017 21:54
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change my name posted:We haven't seen any wildlife on the mainland either yet, it's possible that everything's been wiped out and that the Marely crew only know about them through books/education. Well, we do know for sure Marley has dogs...
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May 27, 2017 22:00
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McTimmy posted:I think there were some dogs during the Survey Corps manhunt.  McTimmy posted:Well, we do know for sure Marley has dogs... 
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May 27, 2017 22:50
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Phobophilia posted:armin could kick all your asses without any gear or titan buffs He doesn't need to throw a punch, he just psychologically destroys his opponents.
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May 28, 2017 01:52
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Well we know why that dog's starving at least
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May 28, 2017 01:53
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It was weird watching the latest episode while being caught up on the manga. When Reiner talks about getting a promotion I totally thought he was talking about in the Marley army. I totally forgot it was a part of him breaking down over his split lives and PSTD.
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May 28, 2017 09:37
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