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Submarine Sandpaper posted:autolyse. Warmer water. I actually did try warmer water on the last loaf out of three - ended up way over-proofing. I have that problem generally anyway - my proofing times are like 3/4ths the normal recipe, at most, and adding warm water made it much worse. I haven't tried autolysis, but I have read about it. I'm nervous about adding yeast and salt after the dough is basically formed - seems like it would be easy for the salt to be uneven and kill the yeast.
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May 19, 2017 01:22
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The next thing to get after a scale is a thermometer.
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May 19, 2017 01:49
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Once you have a thermometer calculate your final dough temp and adjust your water temp accordingly. Measure your room temp, flour temp, starter temp(if using) plus 5-10 degrees for friction. Add them all up and subtract them from your target temp x 3 or 4 depending on if using a starter or not. That's your target water temp. We usually shot for a final dough temp of 72ish at the bakery. Sometimes we'd have to use ice water in the summer times to hit the target.
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May 19, 2017 03:29
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Really, 72? Most of Peter Reinhart's formulas say 77 to 81. Maybe that's why I'm having proofing problems. (Yes, I do have a thermometer.)
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May 19, 2017 03:45
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Colder ferment = better flavor and it's easier to wait a little longer to shape than it is to try and cool down a dough that is moving too fast.
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May 19, 2017 04:00
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I do my ferments at 75-80 degrees (depending on the weather) and proof overnight in the fridge. Works p well for me.
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May 19, 2017 04:26
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So today, as an experiment, I baked a simple boule without scoring it (I totally did not just forget to score it before throwing it in the oven, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise). Obviously the crumb was all off, but another thing I found interesting was that the crust was good on top and bottom, but very weak around the circumference. Is that a normal effect of improper scoring?
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May 19, 2017 19:55
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Alright, this is week 3. I'm about halfway through the process, these stupid little boules are doing their final rise right now. Besides shaping them like absolute trash this week, I thought things were going better. For those who have followed the tartine recipe or similar, is this about the size your boules turn out when you split the dough, after the initial shape? They just seem so small. This is 1000g of flour. The bulk ferment went well, I thought the dough was rising really well but they just seem small. If history repeats itself, scoring them will also be a total bitch, they don't seem to cut well like I've seen online or on instagram (drat bread celebs) even with incredibly sharp razor blades. An hour into their rise and they seem to be doing better than the last batch. Feeling wise they felt the best of my batches, so I think my starter is doing much better and I'm on the right path. It finally warmed up here this week (except for today of course, dropped to 46F) and I switched my starter to rye/AP which seems to make it explode. However, one thing I never notice is a ton of bubbles on the top, just on the sides. It looks pretty textbook there, so maybe it's just on the thicker side which I can't see impacting my bakes much. Think my starter sounds ok? Anywho, here's a pic of them after the bench rest with a sharpie for scale (please ignore my sad attempt at pre-shaping, it's obviously a WIP). Appreciate the previous advice and looked into under vs over proofing. It's pretty funny because different sources attribute the same characteristics to opposite proofs, so I guess it's all part of learning how my dough responds to everything. The advice just upthread is helpful too! 
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May 19, 2017 20:52
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The size looks about right to me for 1000g, though it's hard to say without being able to see how tall they are. Under-proofing and over-proofing can have similar effects on the crumb, because they both cause a bad gluten structure. If you over-proof, it relaxes too much. I'm not sure about the mechanics of under-proofing, but I think it makes things happen too fast inside the dough, so the gluten tears. Edit: You can imagine the gluten structure as a bunch of rubber bands stretched across pegs. In one case, the bands are too big and loose. In the other, they're too tight, and they break. In both cases, you end up with a bunch of floppy rubber bands lying there instead of a nice network. In my experience, under-proofed loaves tend to be more irregular, with a closer texture toward the center. I haven't had a lot of experience with under-proofing though, so someone who knows better might say different. Petr fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 21:41
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Appreciate the info. I just poked each boule, which look like they've risen a little but not very much and they actually seemed to be in the perfect stage. Hole bounced back quick and filled about half way, but can still see the indent. They've only been rising for about 2 hours though so I'm a little suspect. Might give them a bit more time and then toss them in the oven I guess. Maybe my stove area is too warm and I should be doing my ferment overnight, I just don't consistently have time to bake the following day so I like trying it all in one go.
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May 19, 2017 22:03
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1kg of dough or 1kg of flour as your 100% weight?
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May 19, 2017 22:13
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:1kg of dough or 1kg of flour as your 100% weight? 1kg of flour as my 100% weight. I keep pokin' em and can't tell if they're over, under, or perfect. They just don't seem to rise much.The hole quickly fills in halfway and then very very slowly fills back in. I turned the oven on and i think I'll go ahead and start baking. edit: Despite the poke test looking like they were done, I dont think these are proofing enough. I determined this after I transferred the first loaf to the combo cooker, where it immediately flattened out and lost most of its structure. I think this means they're not proofing enough. I put the other loaf in the fridge, and I'll take a peek at it later tonight or tomorrow morning when I get around to it. There is basically no rise at this stage (3 hours into the final rise) loaf temp registered around 73F, so either its a temp issue, or a starter issue - mine is still very young and not very robust yet, or a combination of course! Back to the drawing board, but looking forward to some hella good toast at least! Edit 2: baked up ok, higher than previous loaves. Will post a shot of the crumb after I cut it open after it cools. Looks pretty good actually, guess we'll see if the other one rises at all!   
Iron Lung fucked around with this message at 23:46 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 22:20
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Has anyone ever tried making a French or Italian boule in a dutch oven, like those no-knead recipes use? I usually use a steam pan in the bottom of the oven, but I'm wondering if I could just use the dutch oven instead. Would it maybe not be enough moisture? I noticed those no-knead recipes use a very shaggy dough, and I figure that's probably so the bread has enough moisture to steam itself.
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May 20, 2017 02:34
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Oh my god... autolysis! Why is this not in every bread-baking book on the market? The flavor was like ten times more complex. It smelled like popcorn coming out of the oven! Ed: still didn't windowpane, but gently caress it. I think I just live in a weird climate or something. Petr fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 07:15
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So I just made sourdough donuts, and holy poo poo. I mostly followed this recipe: http://www.mydailysourdoughbread.com/three-reasons-try-making-fluffy-sourdough-doughnuts/ I skipped the rum and some other stuff, but I followed most of it. Then because of events I had to do a retarded ferment in the fridge all day. I highly, highly recommend that. The sourness of the dough matched against a basic sugar glaze and the oil from frying. God drat. Seriously do yourself a favor and make some sourdough donuts, they are amazing.  This crumb shot does not look even a bit as fluffy as the donut was. Straight up the best donut I've ever had. 
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May 20, 2017 13:16
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I figured out a divine way to use up my old sourdough.. I was in the mood for some french toast like breakfast but I wanted chorizo, so I diced up some stale ends and mixed them into a couple eggs and a dash of milk with a pinch of salt, then fried them up with onions and jalapenos and chorizo. Serve with salsa. I could eat this every day and it takes way less effort and time than making sure that my home fries have a perfect crust, and no need for tortillas. Stringent posted:Baking without a scale is some bullshit. Get a scale. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 03:27
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Iron Lung posted:Alright, this is week 3. I'm about halfway through the process, these stupid little boules are doing their final rise right now. Besides shaping them like absolute trash this week, I thought things were going better. For those who have followed the tartine recipe or similar, is this about the size your boules turn out when you split the dough, after the initial shape? They just seem so small. This is 1000g of flour. The bulk ferment went well, I thought the dough was rising really well but they just seem small. If history repeats itself, scoring them will also be a total bitch, they don't seem to cut well like I've seen online or on instagram (drat bread celebs) even with incredibly sharp razor blades. An hour into their rise and they seem to be doing better than the last batch. I tend to have better luck scoring with a bread knife rather than a razor, but YMMV.
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May 23, 2017 13:12
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Honestly it's the dough. I've tried a knife in the past and had success too though. I reached out to the guy who runs theperfectloaf.com (lol), because he's an amazing resource. He thinks it's not rising enough in the bulk ferment stage and is underproofed. So the next time I bake I'll extend that stage and it should also be warmer in my house because of summer.
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May 23, 2017 23:02
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Liquid Communism posted:I tend to have better luck scoring with a bread knife rather than a razor, but YMMV. I ended up buying safety razor blades and putting one on the end of a chop stick, so it is curved like a proper lame. Seems to make it a lot easier to score it without catching the corner and tearing the dough.
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May 23, 2017 23:36
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Since I went all out and did Kenji's "McRib" down to the homemade buns, I found myself with a bunch of instant yeast and no idea what to do with it. So I decided to try no-knead bread... Babby's first bread adventures! That's not that much dough, should fit the bowl.  ohh, that's rising quickly. still fits!  
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May 25, 2017 18:15
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Jan posted:Since I went all out and did Kenji's "McRib" down to the homemade buns, I found myself with a bunch of instant yeast and no idea what to do with it. So I decided to try no-knead bread... Babby's first bread adventures! Hahah. Happens to the best of us. You'll get your eye in on rises and such, dont worry. I experimented with a quick no-knead bread myself, it turned out very nice considering the zeroes of effort applied. https://imgur.com/gallery/y6GSl
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May 25, 2017 18:52
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Anyone have a good wheat bread recipe? I've tried a few but it always comes out bleh. Like not a lot of rise and kinda dense and lovely.
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May 26, 2017 19:15
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Tom Smykowski posted:Anyone have a good wheat bread recipe? I've tried a few but it always comes out bleh. Like not a lot of rise and kinda dense and lovely. Whole wheat? If you just mean regular wheat, I've loved this one http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/08/simple-crusty-white-bread-recipe.html.
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May 26, 2017 19:46
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Carillon posted:Whole wheat? If you just mean regular wheat, I've loved this one http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/08/simple-crusty-white-bread-recipe.html. Lol, ya my bad I meant whole wheat. Thanks for the other recipe, though. I'll give that one a go just because I've never used oil like that before.
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May 26, 2017 20:17
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Hey I have a question about those "best used by dates " for active dry yeast. I have a few jars of yeast in the freezer, 2015-Mar and 2016-May and Jun. Are the yeast long completely dead or can I save a few dollars and still make bread with them? edit : oh yeah the proofing test, I'll get right on that. PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 20:32
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See if you can activate it.
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May 28, 2017 21:03
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PhazonLink posted:Hey I have a question about those "best used by dates " for active dry yeast. If it proofs, you're fine, but two years is a bit of a stretch.
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May 29, 2017 11:57
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PhazonLink posted:Hey I have a question about those "best used by dates " for active dry yeast. I bought a fairly large amount years ago and kept it frozen, seems to work as well as ever.
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May 29, 2017 12:07
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Babby's no knead adventure turned out pretty okay, considering it was basically 10-15 minutes active time including washing the dishes. I used Kenji's recipe, which has a 3 day cold fermentation time that is apparently essential for flavour in no knead bread...  What bothered me is how much every handling step ends up massively deflating the dough. And since it's so soft, I ended up being unable to properly scoop the loaf up smoothly, snagging it on the side of the dutch oven when dropping it in. So I had a slightly misshapen loaf.  It was pretty drat delicious though. I think I might try rising the loaf on parchment paper next time, and just drop the entire parchment paper into the dutch oven. What's a fun next step I could explore? I actually kind of like kneading, at least based on my limited pasta and flour tortilla experience. 
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May 29, 2017 16:39
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Make a challa dough and learn to braid it. Even if you gently caress it up it would still make some drat fine French toast.
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May 29, 2017 16:55
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Jan posted:Babby's no knead adventure turned out pretty okay, considering it was basically 10-15 minutes active time including washing the dishes. I used Kenji's recipe, which has a 3 day cold fermentation time that is apparently essential for flavour in no knead bread...
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May 29, 2017 21:43
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Hi bread thread, I got an Oster bread machine for Christmas and it is pretty awesome. I've been making bread every week for sandwhiches. I've got a couple questions though. Every whole-wheat loaf (and some white loaves) I make comes out like this:  It's all collapsed in the middle! That's not normal, right? Is there anything I can do? My bread machine also has dough and bagel dough settings, and I'd love to make my own bagels. I tried using a recipe from my bread machine's manual, but it came out way too wet -- more like pudding than dough. Does anyone have a good bread machine bagel recipe? Bonus points if it's an egg bagel recipe, because they're my favorite and I don't think they exist in this part of the world. Thanks!
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May 30, 2017 02:34
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Solumin posted:Hi bread thread, What is the recipe or what are the recipes you've been using? As far as bagels go, I really can't see how a bread machine can possibly cook bagels. Go ahead and use the machine for kneading, but shape, dip, and bake on the counter, stove, and oven respectively. Any bagel recipe you like should work fine as long as you're just using the machine for kneading, though I'm partial to Beranbaum's.
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May 30, 2017 04:58
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:What is the recipe or what are the recipes you've been using? That particular loaf is this recipe: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/241294/mrs-carrigans-honey-wheat-bread/ The other recipes I've used are from my machine's instruction manual. Sorry, I should have clarified: I'm just using the bread machine to prepare the dough. Everything else will be done elsewhere, as you said. I'll check out that recipe when I have time, thanks!
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May 30, 2017 05:31
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Solumin posted:My bread machine also has dough and bagel dough settings, and I'd love to make my own bagels. I tried using a recipe from my bread machine's manual, but it came out way too wet -- more like pudding than dough. Does anyone have a good bread machine bagel recipe? Bonus points if it's an egg bagel recipe, because they're my favorite and I don't think they exist in this part of the world. That's super weird. Bagel dough is dry, basically as dry as you can get it and still knead it. A comparison I've heard a few times is that the dough should almost feel like an uninflated car tire's sidewall: Smooth, elastic and very firm. Here's my recipe, I'd be hesitant to do it in a bread machine though because even my kitchenaid struggles on the incredibly dense dough, but that shouldn't stop you, this is a very easy dough to work with, not messy at all and doesn't require much if any skill. I just really don't think a bread machine can make bagels worth eating. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 10:47 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 10:44
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That's super weird. Bagel dough is dry, basically as dry as you can get it and still knead it. A comparison I've heard a few times is that the dough should almost feel like an uninflated car tire's sidewall: Smooth, elastic and very firm. Here's my recipe, I'd be hesitant to do it in a bread machine though because even my kitchenaid struggles on the incredibly dense dough, but that shouldn't stop you, this is a very easy dough to work with, not messy at all and doesn't require much if any skill. I just really don't think a bread machine can make bagels worth eating. Something is fishy with that link.
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May 30, 2017 20:40
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That's super weird. Bagel dough is dry, basically as dry as you can get it and still knead it. A comparison I've heard a few times is that the dough should almost feel like an uninflated car tire's sidewall: Smooth, elastic and very firm. Here's my recipe, I'd be hesitant to do it in a bread machine though because even my kitchenaid struggles on the incredibly dense dough, but that shouldn't stop you, this is a very easy dough to work with, not messy at all and doesn't require much if any skill. I just really don't think a bread machine can make bagels worth eating. Here's the recipe from my bread machine's manual:
Compared to your recipe, that's about the same water for 1/3 of the flour, which certainly explains the soupy dough. Thank you for the recipe! Maybe I'll try doing it by hand next time.
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May 31, 2017 00:34
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Solumin posted:Here's the recipe from my bread machine's manual: Your recipe is either utterly hosed, or you are mis-reading it. No one makes ~115% hydrated dough to directly bake with.
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May 31, 2017 01:16
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baquerd posted:Your recipe is either utterly hosed, or you are mis-reading it. No one makes ~115% hydrated dough to directly bake with. I don't think I'm misreading it:  That's literally all there is about bagels in the manual. No further instructions. So unless I'm missing something that should be common knowledge, the recipe is hosed.
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May 31, 2017 02:02
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That's super weird. Bagel dough is dry, basically as dry as you can get it and still knead it. A comparison I've heard a few times is that the dough should almost feel like an uninflated car tire's sidewall: Smooth, elastic and very firm. Here's my recipe, I'd be hesitant to do it in a bread machine though because even my kitchenaid struggles on the incredibly dense dough, but that shouldn't stop you, this is a very easy dough to work with, not messy at all and doesn't require much if any skill. I just really don't think a bread machine can make bagels worth eating. Actually that is a very good point I didn't think about. My stand mixer has no problem with even large batches of bagels, so I skipped past realizing that a bread machine is no Ankarsrum. Bagels are about the stiffest dough that people actually eat instead of using as building blocks, but yeah, just make them by hand. Solumin posted:I don't think I'm misreading it: what in the gently caress, that recipe is useless. Bagels are closer to 50% hydration than 100%. They should not have printed that. Solumin posted:That particular loaf is this recipe: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/241294/mrs-carrigans-honey-wheat-bread/ Try using a recipe you like the sound of on The Fresh Loaf or Beranbaum's blog or something. You could convert that one to weight, but to be honest, it seems pretty unspectacular to begin with. If you want rich flavor, healthy bread, and seriously a delicious loaf, try this struan. SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 02:37
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