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Yeah, the South is intensely matriarchal and would never go for Gilead's poo poo.
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May 27, 2017 04:41
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precision posted:Yeah, the South is intensely matriarchal and would never go for Gilead's poo poo. I'm from the south and yeah it's poo poo but lol come on man. This poo poo would ruin college football. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 07:19 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 06:52
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CelestialScribe posted:Not to mention the South. The book even talks about rebel Baptists still fighting against Gilead. I dunno, I definetly feel like it's supposed to be Christianity. The show (haven't read the book) definetly does try to show that other divisions of it don't sympathize and are just as oppressed as everyone else, but to me it seems like the basis is pretty clearly Evangelical extremism. But yeah it seems like ISIS of Christianity pretty much.
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May 27, 2017 07:38
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Deadulus posted:I'm from the south and yeah it's poo poo but lol come on man. The South is one of the few places in America where the incidence of reported domestic abuse is almost split equally between men and women. Southern women are not to be hosed with.
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May 27, 2017 07:50
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precision posted:The South is one of the few places in America where the incidence of reported domestic abuse is almost split equally between men and women. Southern women are not to be hosed with. Oh were you being serious in your last post? Thought you were being sarcastic lol. Misread your post.
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May 27, 2017 08:42
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veni veni veni posted:I dunno, I definetly feel like it's supposed to be Christianity. The show (haven't read the book) definetly does try to show that other divisions of it don't sympathize and are just as oppressed as everyone else, but to me it seems like the basis is pretty clearly Evangelical extremism. Yeah I do remember the book does try to distinguish from real world branches of Christianity at least. It talks about he Sons of Jacob( has the show used this name yet?) fighting the last Baptists. Plus there are pray wheels and other things that aren't normal to Christianity. But, it's definitely a derivative of Christianity. In the show they quote the Bible talking about a wife (sari?) being barren and that the husband can bang their slave to form a family. It's probably noteworthy that the book was written during the height of the religious right's foray into politics. Phyllis Schlafly may have been the inspiration for Serena Joy. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 09:15 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 09:06
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Gilead is derived from Abrahamic religion in exactly the same way that ISIS is derived from Islam. I don't think it's meant to really be a big point that they quote the Bible; that is to say, the show (and the novel, to a lesser extent) isn't interested in throwing shade on Christianity. It's simply that Christianity is one of the few ways to make it feel "closer" than something like, say, Children of Men where the only scene that made me feel "oh, this is 15 minutes into the future" was the scene of getting baked with Michael Caine.
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May 27, 2017 09:19
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As good as the show is establishing that there's a vestigal U.S. still figthing on kind of declaws the 1984 elements. The story of the American Remnant in my head is more interesting than gender politics in Jesusland. Compare to 1984 where you never even know if there are actually other countries or a war. Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 11:01 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 10:59
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I feel like this could definitely spring out of one of those Calvinist New England Christian sects where they decide that they must have been saved by Jesus because they are rich and everyone else must be damned because they are poor and also do gross things like have sex with each other.
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May 27, 2017 15:40
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Cojawfee posted:I feel like this could definitely spring out of one of those Calvinist New England Christian sects where they decide that they must have been saved by Jesus because they are rich and everyone else must be damned because they are poor and also do gross things like have sex with each other. I know it's a little gauche to quote yourself, but I'm really interested in an analysis in what kind of arcane strain of Christianity is being practiced here. Supporting the idea that it's a kind of Calvinism. When the Martha is condemned in the kangaroo court, the judge says... DasNeonLicht posted:[...] "You are hereby sentenced to the common mercy of the state." I was curious about the term "common mercy," so I looked it up. It may have just been an invention of the writers, but I found a book from 1762 with the long title Plain Truth: By which it is manifest, that the common mercy of God extends to all men, so as to give them the pardon of original sin but the special grace of God to His elect, appears in His giving them the pardon of all their sins ; and the rest perish eternally for their own sin only. This made me think of Calvinism, where in reading a little on Wikipedia, I found this sentence that seemed to explain a little more about common mercy vs. special grace: "Those elected receive [special] mercy, while those not elected, the reprobates, receive justice without condition."
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May 27, 2017 15:55
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Baron Porkface posted:As good as the show is establishing that there's a vestigal U.S. still figthing on kind of declaws the 1984 elements. The story of the American Remnant in my head is more interesting than gender politics in Jesusland. I was reading an interview about the show, particularly the difference between the book and show in regards to race. They couldn't keep the book's idea that Gilead forcibly removed all non-whites because then they'd have a racist TV show with no minorities. I'm paraphrasing, but they also said something like, "Why would we not show the interesting story of all minorities being rounded up and relocated?" But yeah, the worldbuilding in the show is much more interesting to me than June's personal story, and the show is still good.
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May 27, 2017 17:02
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Show Gilead probably plays up how wonderfully post-racial it is to ah... whitewash the rest of the terrible poo poo. Kind of like how they crowed in the last episode about how they drastically reduced their carbon footprint (not mentioning it was in part through drastic depopulation, relocation, and liquidation).
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May 27, 2017 17:24
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Show Gilead probably plays up how wonderfully post-racial it is to ah... whitewash the rest of the terrible poo poo. Kind of like how they crowed in the last episode about how they drastically reduced their carbon footprint (not mentioning it was in part through drastic depopulation, relocation, and liquidation). Yeah I was thinking the same thing. For a good chunk of the show I thought it was odd that they weren't all about racial segregation considering everything else. But I almost like how the show handles it better than that. There is defiantly racial oppression going on, but it's more a a dishonest "we aren't racist" type of racism. Which is honestly more believable.
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May 27, 2017 17:41
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Show Gilead probably plays up how wonderfully post-racial it is to ah... whitewash the rest of the terrible poo poo. Kind of like how they crowed in the last episode about how they drastically reduced their carbon footprint (not mentioning it was in part through drastic depopulation, relocation, and liquidation). It was reasoned in the interview by "fertility trumps all".
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May 27, 2017 17:42
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Show Gilead (especially as shown by both Waterfords) is even worse than book Gilead because Fred and Serena keep showing you brief flashes of humanity underneath all the terrible. Fred's apparent legitimate concern for the environment is part of that. This show is so manipulative but it works really well.
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May 27, 2017 18:33
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Lum_ posted:The vibe I got from that whole sequence was that free societies weren't as efficient at leveraging what few fertile women exist as Gilead's raping. Yeah, and that makes no sense, because Gilead's methods are not efficient at all.
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May 28, 2017 14:35
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It seemed more to me that whatever is going on just happens to have left temperate North America with a relative bounty of fertile women, enough that they can afford to leverage some of them (ugh) to stave off immediate economic collapse.
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May 28, 2017 15:34
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Tiggum posted:Yeah, and that makes no sense, because Gilead's methods are not efficient at all. I mean if they were rational actors privileging fertility uber alles there's probably tens of millions of frozen embryos in clinics around the lower 48.
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May 28, 2017 15:43
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I think kidnapping and enslaving any fertile woman they could put their hands own helped Gilead considerably in that regard.
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May 28, 2017 15:58
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BJPaskoff posted:It was reasoned in the interview by "fertility trumps all". That checks out, actually. Have we seen any non-white characters that weren't handmaidens in the show? It makes sense for Gilead to make the exception only for fertility, but because of the weird ritual of the handmaidens having her not really "be there" while being a proxy for good old married couples having sex for procreation it still completely diminishes any minority voice because the children made are those of the two white powerful people in their eyes: minorities are necessary for the society to function but only the strictly necessary ones are allowed any kind of role and it's one where they're completely silenced and utterly exploited. Turning a blind eye to only the basest levels of human worth to them also undermines the hell out of Gilead as a society too: a white supremacist society is going to foster some really nasty racial castes for any children born to a handmaiden who doesn't look completely white. Huh, I was kind of worried that the series might have swept the racist parts of Gilead under the rug but it's a pretty elegant way of exploring it, well done show!  e: \/\/\/  Okay so a bit less extreme than I had thought
ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 16:35
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ManlyGrunting posted:That checks out, actually. Have we seen any non-white characters that weren't handmaidens in the show? Rita/Martha is an easy example of a non-white character.
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May 28, 2017 16:45
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BJPaskoff posted:It was reasoned in the interview by "fertility trumps all". I actually kind of like this, it's a divergence from the book that makes logical sense while also fitting in more with 2017 minority representation vs. the 1980s.
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May 28, 2017 19:13
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ManlyGrunting posted:That checks out, actually. Have we seen any non-white characters that weren't handmaidens in the show? There was an Oriental looking fellow that went into Fred's office with other commanders of Gilead in episode one.
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May 28, 2017 23:03
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Collateral posted:There was an Oriental looking fellow that went into Fred's office with other commanders of Gilead in episode one. Oriental is a flavor packet not a term to be applied to people.
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May 28, 2017 23:18
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There were some asian dudes in suits in the subway during the flashback to June's failed escape.
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May 28, 2017 23:20
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Hollismason posted:Oriental is a flavor packet not a term to be applied to people. Seriously, no.
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May 28, 2017 23:52
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There have also been some black guards walking around. It's kind of hard to picture a reactionary rightwing government that's not racist, but I guess Fred Phelps was a civil rights lawyer.
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May 28, 2017 23:55
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Ego-bot posted:There have also been some black guards walking around. It's kind of hard to picture a reactionary rightwing government that's not racist, but I guess Fred Phelps was a civil rights lawyer. A lot of racists claim they have no problem with black people, they just want them to be in their own country.
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May 29, 2017 00:22
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A racist society can be integrated and still be racist. The USA remains a white supremacist society in many respects, we can imagine Gilead as being a similar deal but more so.
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May 29, 2017 03:28
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Yeah black guards, but have we seen a bpacl "commander?"
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May 29, 2017 04:23
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I don't think Gilead is genociding black people. They're more cultural supremacists...they "tolerate" nonwhite people as long as they conform absolutely to white values. The reference is probably more Stolen Generation. There will be black handmaids, but their children are raised by white people and retain no black identity. It's cultural genocide. Though they're obviously in the regular-genocide business with Jews, Muslims, gay people, etc. So it's not like they're above that.
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May 29, 2017 05:26
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Their culture is as far removed from that of western whites as it is from other cultural identities.
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May 29, 2017 09:58
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drat, another episode that was a home run. Great cinematography again and the Nick backstory was great. They're definitely making me believe they'll be able to pull off season 2 since it will have to be basically 100% new material.
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May 31, 2017 21:17
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thats how you lick a stump
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Jun 1, 2017 04:17
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That was weird.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:24
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I was looking forward to seeing this sequence, with its creepo Eyes Wide Shut vibe. And I'm so grateful the director skipped the sex scene.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:02
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witchcore ricepunk posted:I was looking forward to seeing this sequence, with its creepo Eyes Wide Shut vibe. And I'm so grateful the director skipped the sex scene. They did a good job excluding sex without artistic merit.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:13
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So it's a bit odd that Moira was sent to the brothel rather than back to being a bipedal womb given that she's allegedly fertile and all. I dig that this isn't a plot-hole given that the very existence of the brothel is indicative of the hypocrasy of the higher echelons of the Sons of Jacob, but still, a touch odd given the lengths they went to with Ofglen.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:23
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It definitely seems that they have limits to the leeway they give fertile women.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:25
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I don't know, is the brothel a worse fate than FGM + continued rape + unwanted pregnancy? I know that this is a bizarre comparison but it really seemed like Moira had it easy compared to what Ofglen has to endure.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:27
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