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Gwaihir posted:The graphics do update depending on the weapon mounted, too: That is awesome. Truly you are doing the lord's work. Is it actually coded in respect to hardpoints, I assume? So you could do that on the hunchback but not an atlas?
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Jun 2, 2017 01:51
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Myrmidongs posted:. If you lose your sensor bitch early to a lucky shot, you're in for a world of trouble because you either won't be hitting, or will constantly be hitting for half damage. I agree. I've been sticking my Sensor Lock pilot in the lovely LRM Locust just so he can sit out of LoS and I don't have to feel too bad about missing his firepower. I would rather that Sensor Lock get a cooldown and allow you to shoot on the same turn, and maybe also be light/medium only.
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Jun 2, 2017 01:55
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Yes, it is. You can look closely and see some of the PPCs look like lasers in the right torso, because the hunch skeleton only has defined spots to mount 4 of them. (I'm sure the graphics were designed to obey actual TT build rules, where you couldn't put more than 4 PPCs in a torso.) Same for the head slot where it was set to be only a flamer/small laser/MG. It's super easy to edit things compared to, say, that other cryengine based mech game >.> Other cool stuff customization wise, it looks like they're going with a bunch of different manufacturers of weapons having slightly different characteristics. Like a Holly SRM6 might be more accurate, but an Irian version might have a higher crit hit chance. I'm firing up shadowplay to try and make some gifs because the 9PPC hunch firing is just a laugh riot. e: I wouldn't look in to the files and stuff too much if you want to be totally unspoiled because there is single player campaign type things you can look at in there. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 01:56
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Gwaihir posted:I'm firing up shadowplay to try and make some gifs because the 9PPC hunch firing is just a laugh riot. Shadowplay does not want to recognize the Battletech process for me   So this Scout vs Scout engagement had to be recorded with GoonCam.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:17
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Feindfeuer posted:Shadowplay does not want to recognize the Battletech process for me Yea, I just was wondering about that myself. GoonCam it is. Re: headshots, the combat table is in one of the settings files: No idea what the values are relative to. "HitTables" : { "CalledShotBonus" : 30, "HitMechLocationFromFront" : [ { "k" : "Head", "v" : 1 }, { "k" : "CenterTorso", "v" : 16 }, { "k" : "LeftTorso", "v" : 14 }, { "k" : "RightTorso", "v" : 14 }, { "k" : "LeftArm", "v" : 10 }, { "k" : "RightArm", "v" : 10 }, { "k" : "LeftLeg", "v" : 8 }, { "k" : "RightLeg", "v" : 8 } ],
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Jun 2, 2017 02:23
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My one and only gripe that wouldn't fall under "It's a beta, so it'll probably be fixed" is there really needs to be a way to speed up the enemies turn.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:25
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So some thoughts: Boy, it's fun. I'm really glad I shelled out for beta... but if you're on the fence I don't know if it's worth it. That's an odd combination. Beta's fun. It's got a few quirks. I don't know how many more missions I'm going to play, probably one or two more tonight, a few tomorrow, one or two over the weekend, and occasionally pick it up, then do some goonbrawls when multiplayer is added and play with the MechLab if that ever gets added (they said no but there's a button for it on the main menu, so  )But the game is rather dramatically limited as a '4 Mechs vs 4 Mechs' game. There WILL be more modes for skirmish in full release (they're visible in the files), plus vehicles, and of course the full campaign (which, like XCOM, will be the heart and soul of the game- missions have no tension, so long as you win, you win. Campaign will have you worrying about maintaining them and such, and that will add a lot of tension). In addition beta will 'die' at some point. At this point we don't know if that means only multiplayer will go offline or if the whole drat thing will be taken away (that's what I lean towards, it's 'BattleTech - Backer Beta on Steam, NOT the full product', it doesn't link back to the store page or anything). But you'd basically be paying a $20 premium to play a dramatically limited version of the game that will probably go away in a few months. I'm happy I did, I have 0 regrets, but if you're wondering about it all you need to know is the game is fun as hell, it FEELS good, the 'Mechs really FEEL huge and heavy, and once its balanced it will be great.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:29
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Feindfeuer posted:Shadowplay does not want to recognize the Battletech process for me Enable desktop recording in Shadowplay, it works for this and many other games where SP is less than happy to capture
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Jun 2, 2017 02:36
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Feindfeuer posted:Shadowplay does not want to recognize the Battletech process for me That little hop-step the Vindy does is awesome
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Jun 2, 2017 02:41
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Pattonesque posted:That little hop-step the Vindy does is awesome A lot of the melee animations have those janky little half-steps. I'm guessing it gives some wiggle room to get all the different sized models synced up so that nobody winds up swinging at air. More Thoughts: weapon ranges are extremely are well done. The various minimum and maximum ranges are all narrow enough that backup weapons are very relevant.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:49
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Sky Shadowing posted:So some thoughts: Definitely agree with this. Don't buy in just to get the beta. It's quite good, but it's also actually just a beta and not HEY EARLY ACCESS TO GAME e: http://i.imgur.com/9lYvUjY.gifv Multi-targeting pilot skill: http://i.imgur.com/knEVqG0.gifv
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Jun 2, 2017 02:50
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Got in two matches, having trouble at this point because it's kind of hard for me to work out enemy LOS and blocking fire. Lost the AC20 off my Hunchback to backshots from across the map because the hill I thought I was safely behind wasn't a hill apparently. Think once I can work out how better to play defensively I'll start doing better; right now I'm OK at banging on the enemy but they hit back harder seems like and I can't stop them ganging up because I don't read where to position well. Need more Sprinting/cover usage probably, and maybe set up a 'Mech as bait and put it in Guard stance. Also lost a pristine Jenner to a head shot, so Battletech appears to be Battletech-ing appropriately.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:53
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MadDogMike posted:Got in two matches, having trouble at this point because it's kind of hard for me to work out enemy LOS and blocking fire. Lost the AC20 off my Hunchback to backshots from across the map because the hill I thought I was safely behind wasn't a hill apparently. Think once I can work out how better to play defensively I'll start doing better; right now I'm OK at banging on the enemy but they hit back harder seems like and I can't stop them ganging up because I don't read where to position well. Need more Sprinting/cover usage probably, and maybe set up a 'Mech as bait and put it in Guard stance. Also lost a pristine Jenner to a head shot, so Battletech appears to be Battletech-ing appropriately. Were they missiles? Could have been indirect fire. Otherwise,  , but BattleTech.E: You know what's one thing I love? A few people on the official forums are bitching about things that make it 'different from BattleTech'. And I think HBS doesn't care. I've seen too many games get taken over by the turbospergs. Like Elite: Dangerous. "Wahh, I don't like this thing because it's not realistic in this spaceship game." gently caress 'em. HBS, make the best game you can, and gently caress the whiners. So those people who  that it's not 'mah daddy's BattleTech' or something can download mods that tweak numbers to make it 'real BattleTech' and the rest of us can not care.
Sky Shadowing fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 02:55
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Gwaihir posted:The graphics do update depending on the weapon mounted, too: How did you do this?
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Jun 2, 2017 03:18
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Gwaihir posted:No idea what the values are relative to. They're not relative to anything except the sum of all the values.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:21
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Sky Shadowing posted:E: You know what's one thing I love? A few people on the official forums are bitching about things that make it 'different from BattleTech'. And I think HBS doesn't care. I've seen too many games get taken over by the turbospergs. Like Elite: Dangerous. "Wahh, I don't like this thing because it's not realistic in this spaceship game." gently caress 'em. HBS, make the best game you can, and gently caress the whiners. I unironically hope the game is extensible enough to support a 'tabletop mode mod' or whatever for those who like that sort of thing! I have a feeling it will be hard to mod out the initiative systems and the skill systems, interested to see what's possible on release. Hopefully with weapon variants in the game there will be ways to jury rig stuff like variable recycle times. Fingers crossed.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:22
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I unironically hope the game is extensible enough to support a 'tabletop mode mod' or whatever for those who like that sort of thing! I think something to bare in mind is someone has already tried to do a faithful tabletop rules battletech game and it was received really badly. It took a very long time to play even a small skirmish and it just wasn't fun. Mechwarrior: Tactics had a Lot of other problems but at it's core the tabletop rules just weren't enjoyable on a pc.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:24
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Phrosphor posted:I think something to bare in mind is someone has already tried to do a faithful tabletop rules battletech game and it was received really badly. It took a very long time to play even a small skirmish and it just wasn't fun. Mechwarrior: Tactics had a Lot of other problems but at it's core the tabletop rules just weren't enjoyable on a pc. It would be nice if the game had enough modding support to allow those who wanted to implement something closer to the tabletop to do so. I'm just talking about stuff like turning off the weapon changes they implemented and having more basic rules. If you don't like that sort of thing or thing it won't work that's great because the game was designed for you. I'm just saying it would be cool, for those who do want to try it, if the game was flexible enough to allow those kinds of mods.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:27
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isildur posted:They're not relative to anything except the sum of all the values. Congrats on getting the beta out! I was wondering if have a shared goon doc for beta feedback would be useful, or would you prefer it coming through the HBS forums?
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Jun 2, 2017 03:28
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^^^^ just use the forums and make sure you fill out the survey until you've seen all the different random variants of it. Gwaihir posted:e: I wouldn't look in to the files and stuff too much if you want to be totally unspoiled because there is single player campaign type things you can look at in there. Pretty much everything is json. Like, I can't think of anything that isn't art that isn't json. So while we're not going to be making any explicit tools for you to edit the game, it's not exactly going to be hard to make whatever mods you like. Specifically the data format for events and contracts is really, really easy to work with, so I'm expecting that basically anyone can create tons of new content for the game if they want to.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:28
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One of the things I mentioned in Discord was that the after-battle report said I played for over 25 minutes in a match, and if you had asked me how long that match took without me looking at the timer I'd have said like 7. It still takes a decent amount of time, but the fact that it doesn't FEEL like it takes absurd amounts of time is a great change. All the people who want to play tabletop batteltech 100% faithful to the rules should probably just play megamek. This was never pitched as a faithful tabletop conversion, they were very up front that they're going to do what is right to make a fun game, and in the after mission survey for the match I played tonight, it asked me two different questions if I thought the game was "really" battletech, and whether the changes bothered me. My answer was that it captured the feel of the game and I felt the changes made were improvements. So gently caress the turbospergs. Now on my own turbo sperg topic: Still don't like what the PPCs look like, think they should be fatter. 
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Jun 2, 2017 03:31
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Phrosphor posted:I think something to bare in mind is someone has already tried to do a faithful tabletop rules battletech game and it was received really badly. It took a very long time to play even a small skirmish and it just wasn't fun. Mechwarrior: Tactics had a Lot of other problems but at it's core the tabletop rules just weren't enjoyable on a pc.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:33
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Zaodai posted:One of the things I mentioned in Discord was that the after-battle report said I played for over 25 minutes in a match, and if you had asked me how long that match took without me looking at the timer I'd have said like 7. It still takes a decent amount of time, but the fact that it doesn't FEEL like it takes absurd amounts of time is a great change. All the people who want to play tabletop batteltech 100% faithful to the rules should probably just play megamek. This was never pitched as a faithful tabletop conversion, they were very up front that they're going to do what is right to make a fun game, and in the after mission survey for the match I played tonight, it asked me two different questions if I thought the game was "really" battletech, and whether the changes bothered me. Which Discord are you guys using?
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Jun 2, 2017 03:37
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Zaodai posted:My answer was that it captured the feel of the game and I felt the changes made were improvements. the thing is, we have turbospergs on staff. we have people who care *deeply* about BT and its lore and its rules. and we've reached where we're at now after trying a lot of different stuff to try to capture the feel of BT while still making a fun computer game. We've had close adherence to the rules, and we've had wild variant rules with silly poo poo going on, and everything in between. And what we're using as our metric is *playing* the things we try, and then i fill an entire whiteboard with feedback and action items, and we try new things and play those. our resident BT nerd, Eck, who loves the official rules with a burning passion that's honestly a little creepy, is on board. Once he was on board, and agreed that the game was fun, and won the first office tournament handily, I decided we'd met our obligation to fulfill nerd expectations. It's not exactly like TT but it's different in specific, carefully designed ways that addressed specific, carefully identified problems. So it's not so much that we don't care about turbonerds, but that we are, ourselves, turbonerds. And we know the path we took from there to where we are now.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:37
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Phrosphor posted:Which Discord are you guys using? Dis 'un, linked earlier in the thread.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:38
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I unironically hope the game is extensible enough to support a 'tabletop mode mod' or whatever for those who like that sort of thing! The skills are totally adjustable, and initiative has some things that look like they can be tweaked, but it probably can't be simply removed. Also, right now, stuff is quite close to the TT values, just scaled up for better flexibility with granular adjustments. All weapon damage and armor/structure is 5x what it's base TT stuff is: AC20s do 100 damage, not 20. PPCs do 50 damage, not 10. An Atlas CT has 155 internal structure, not 31. The number scaling is essential to let stuff like the bracing to take 50% damage work well, or many other balance considerations. (It's really hard to make sniper type weapons work with small numbers and a fixed rate of fire). The exceptions to the 5x scaling are stuff like the AC2, which does 25 damage instead of 10, the machine gun, which does 15 instead of 5, and the small laser that does 20 instead of 15. The major difference that IS there right now, is heat, which is completely changed.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:38
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I think Headshots / pilot injuries are in a good place for Skirmish and Multiplayer, but I really hope they turn them down a lot for the campaign. Especially if they make us bring light `Mechs. You have to work to keep Light `Mechs alive.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:38
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PoptartsNinja posted:I think Headshots / pilot injuries are in a good place for Skirmish and Multiplayer, but I really hope they turn them down a lot for the campaign. Especially if they make us bring light `Mechs. You have to work to keep Light `Mechs alive. 'death' won't always result in a lost pilot. it is likely to result in a pilot in the medbay. But... um, yes, we have not tuned injury relative to the sim game, like at all. Combat tuning has been its own isolated silo for most of the project. So we're going to have to make a few more passes at things like injuries and headshots before I'll be happy with them. (That said, I want you losing pilots and crying about it)
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Jun 2, 2017 03:41
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Gwaihir posted:The skills are totally adjustable, and initiative has some things that look like they can be tweaked, but it probably can't be simply removed. Hmm, I wonder if the mechs could be assigned to go on the same initiative phase then. quote:Also, right now, stuff is quite close to the TT values, just scaled up for better flexibility with granular adjustments. All weapon damage and armor/structure is 5x what it's base TT stuff is: AC20s do 100 damage, not 20. PPCs do 50 damage, not 10. An Atlas CT has 155 internal structure, not 31. That's pretty slick, it's a quasi VRT. By increasing the values 5x, and increasing some more or less, it accomplishes the same thing as allowing weapons to fire multiple times per round. That's a really cool solution and implementation. quote:The major difference that IS there right now, is heat, which is completely changed.  Yeah I'd like to see whether things like AC specific recoil can be changed, whether sensors etc can be disabled, and whether skills can be reverted to a base to hit / movement based system. Anyway I think this will all become clear at release and going forward, it's cool that at the very least there should be tons of campaign and event mods and I'm looking forward to that.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:42
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isildur posted:the thing is, we have turbospergs on staff. we have people who care *deeply* about BT and its lore and its rules. and we've reached where we're at now after trying a lot of different stuff to try to capture the feel of BT while still making a fun computer game. We've had close adherence to the rules, and we've had wild variant rules with silly poo poo going on, and everything in between. And what we're using as our metric is *playing* the things we try, and then i fill an entire whiteboard with feedback and action items, and we try new things and play those. I'm not decrying the dedication of the staff, just the people on the outside hating purely because the game is different. I think the combat is great, aside from my SUPER-OBJECTIVE AND FAIR complaint about PPC visuals. I don't know if you're allowed to answer this (or if you even know), but will pilots in the campaign start as blank slates so they can be different each playthrough, or will they operate like they do in the skirmish where they always start with a specific skill and stats? I hope it's the former, I'd love use different people each time (or the same people and have them turn out differently) in the extended campaign.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:44
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Zaodai posted:One of the things I mentioned in Discord was that the after-battle report said I played for over 25 minutes in a match, and if you had asked me how long that match took without me looking at the timer I'd have said like 7. It still takes a decent amount of time, but the fact that it doesn't FEEL like it takes absurd amounts of time is a great change. All the people who want to play tabletop batteltech 100% faithful to the rules should probably just play megamek. This was never pitched as a faithful tabletop conversion, they were very up front that they're going to do what is right to make a fun game, and in the after mission survey for the match I played tonight, it asked me two different questions if I thought the game was "really" battletech, and whether the changes bothered me. isildur posted:the thing is, we have turbospergs on staff. we have people who care *deeply* about BT and its lore and its rules. and we've reached where we're at now after trying a lot of different stuff to try to capture the feel of BT while still making a fun computer game. We've had close adherence to the rules, and we've had wild variant rules with silly poo poo going on, and everything in between. And what we're using as our metric is *playing* the things we try, and then i fill an entire whiteboard with feedback and action items, and we try new things and play those. I think the feel is completely fantastic, too, personally. PoptartsNinja posted:I think Headshots / pilot injuries are in a good place for Skirmish and Multiplayer, but I really hope they turn them down a lot for the campaign. Especially if they make us bring light `Mechs. You have to work to keep Light `Mechs alive. One of the variables I found was the global modifier to hit based on chassis size (Assaults are easier to shoot than a light, that sorta thing), and I think lights in general can use a bump here. No one wants the equivalent of the infinitely kiting Wraith/Spider in a multiplayer match, but in single player the light mechs reallllly suffer from not being able to abuse the 2d6 probability curve for their armor like that can in a typical TT game. If you always have a pilot with the evasive skill then they feel pretty appropriate, in that they dodge a lot, and can take maybe 4-5 good hits before getting totally crippled.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:45
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My only gripe is the AI is dumb as gently caress. I ran mediums + battlemaster. I gave the AI an Atlas, Jaegermech (Which by the way is nassssssty as gently caress holy poo poo), Centurion Locust. I setup a basic firing line with a centurion out front to soak. Locust runs in and gets blown up almost immediately, Centurion runs in and gets mauled half to death before the Jaeger comes in to support it and proceeds to gently caress poo poo up, Atlas? Homeboy sits at LRM range and plinks away at me. This let me wipe out the other two mechs forcing the Atlas to engage at which point, I had 3 (And eventually 2) mechs to 1. If the AI had held up with the locust, and pushed the atlas/cent/jaeger at the same time I'd have had some seriously tough decisions to make. But that's not what played out at all. Just a shooting gallery.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:45
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I haven't lost a match yet, and that's, I think,. mostly fine for the campaign. The AI seems decent, I'm sure I've made some mistakes but by and large it mosty feels like I've out-tacticked it. Tomorrow I'll try a few matches with the AI having a significant advantage (or the best I can with the limited funds... it'd be nice if they added an 'unlimited' toggle so I could set up a Assaultbrawl). The AI, for example, knew exactly how ti use its UrbanMechs in the last match- hold them back and pump AC shots into my Mechs from a distance, and they seem unnaturally canny at hitting my loving center torso. I even made one mistake where I put my Assault's back to them and they immediately took advantage and I got scared I was going to lose my Victor. I was sitting there wondering "what loving lights are these?" then I got in range and saw Urbies and I just started swearing.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:55
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^^^ urbies with a heavy spotter will gently caress your day up Zaodai posted:I don't know if you're allowed to answer this (or if you even know), but will pilots in the campaign start as blank slates so they can be different each playthrough, or will they operate like they do in the skirmish where they always start with a specific skill and stats? I hope it's the former, I'd love use different people each time (or the same people and have them turn out differently) in the extended campaign. I DO WHAT I WANT Pilots you hire are generated by a lifepath system behind the scenes. So when you go to hire someone they come with a dossier that's basically their resume: what life nodes they've passed through. The system's fairly complex (probably way more complex than it needed to be but i love that kind of poo poo) and can generate some interesting and surprising outcomes. Like people going from 'mercenary' to 'convict' and you're thinking, what, did she commit war crimes? maybe! Anyway the lifepath nodes add stat points and tags, and the tags can hook into content, so your war criminal would have the 'criminal' tag, and she might get narrative events that key off that. When you go to hire someone, you get a set of 4-6 of these node-generated people, with names, callsigns, portraits etc. You can hire total noobs with lovely stats who are basically blank slates for cheap, or spend lots of money to hire mid-range pilots with better stats and a variety of background-added tags. And you can change names, portraits, voices, gender, whatever -- so you can make people in your LP thread into pilots in your game. (like, that's specifically why I insisted we have that ability) edit: i'm pretty sure the lifepath nodes shipped in the beta so if you're digging in the JSON feel free to check 'em out. I'm unreasonably proud of some of the weirder paths, like the Solaris VII Gladiator Trainer. isildur fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 03:59
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isildur posted:the thing is, we have turbospergs on staff. we have people who care *deeply* about BT and its lore and its rules. and we've reached where we're at now after trying a lot of different stuff to try to capture the feel of BT while still making a fun computer game. We've had close adherence to the rules, and we've had wild variant rules with silly poo poo going on, and everything in between. And what we're using as our metric is *playing* the things we try, and then i fill an entire whiteboard with feedback and action items, and we try new things and play those. I 100% support your teams goal that fun should trump precedent, it is fantastic and a real breath of fresh air. Zaodai posted:Dis 'un, linked earlier in the thread. Cheers
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Jun 2, 2017 03:59
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isildur posted:what, did she commit war crimes? maybe! Truly, the way to go straight to Zaodai's heart 
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Jun 2, 2017 04:00
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isildur posted:
And here I thought I couldn't get any more excited about this game. Seriously that's awesome. I'm still playing mechcommander 1 and 2 all these years later because of the really good fan made campaigns for them. Giving the community the ability to do that could lead to some awesome stuff.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:07
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I got the AI to commit to a punchbrawl in a small forest. The final mech standing was my overheated catapult with 6 of the 7 dead mechs within three hexes of it. Anyone who says this isn't battletech doesn't know what fun battletech is.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:08
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Taerkar posted:I got the AI to commit to a punchbrawl in a small forest. The final mech standing was my overheated catapult with 6 of the 7 dead mechs within three hexes of it. i had a battle recently that i lost (on river crossing which the AI is good at because it's so small). Came down to my armless Trebuchet vs. an out-of-ammo Urbie. We head-butted each other for like five rounds.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:09
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isildur posted:(That said, I want you losing pilots and crying about it) I'd like to say "that's fine" since I'm no stranger to killing pilots, but I played eight or nine games and I think in two of those instant-kill headshots happened to completely pristine `Mechs (once to me, once to the enemy). I guarantee most players will reload a save rather than accept that, so the "we want pilot deaths to matter" sentiment still won't. The AI's pretty good, but yeah, it needs to weight some `Mechs missile batteries as lower priority weapons. I had a Centurion run off to a corner to play missile boat rather than contributing to its team. You might want to set an "Is Missile Boat? Yes/No" flag on certain `Mech chassis in addition to the "does this `Mech have LRMs it can indirect fire with?" check. A secondary check for the "should I hang back and shoot missiles?" would prevent Atlases and the like from loving around in the back while still letting the Stalker and LRM Awesome do their thing.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:11
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