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Rygar201 posted:Evasive isn't a to hit malus, it's a chance for the targeted 'mech to Dodge the shots. I dont like to keep bringing up XCOM comparisons, but XCOM includes enemy abilities in its hit calculations. That number by your weapons should be the be all, end all of how likely a shot is to actually do damage. Otherwise it just confuses and annoys player who will keep missing on 95s even though the final number is closer to a 45.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:50
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seriously look at the tooltip for a weapon's hit percentage and you'll see how the shot difficulty breaks down. Like, what specific factors are going in to the percentage you see. The actual percentage is non-linear and comes from some fairly questionable math I'm doing, but the relative magnitude of the to-hit modifiers is all visible for any shot. Evasion is a separate miss chance, not included in the percentage.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:52
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isildur posted:seriously look at the tooltip for a weapon's hit percentage and you'll see how the shot difficulty breaks down. Like, what specific factors are going in to the percentage you see. This is all well and good. Consider this: How many people are going to actually do that vs how many people aren't going to know its there and complain about how the game is cheating/numbers are wrong/etc on the internet?
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Jun 3, 2017 04:57
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isildur posted:Evasion is a separate miss chance, not included in the percentage. I think the feedback is that it should be included in the percentage.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:02
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Great Beer is 100% right here. That percentage to hit displayed on the UI should be factoring all the rolls and modifiers. If it isn't acting as a reliable indicator of hit chance, then it might as well not even be there.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:04
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Eh, I think something as simple as '50% Evade Chance' tacked on would be sufficient. Would even let you have different evade chances without affecting much in the UI and with less confusion. Some people were talking about 'evasion Assaults' and all, which could apparently stand to have less evasion.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:09
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One of my problems with the indicator is that I can't actually figure out how to "target lock" something and move. I want to see what my percentages are as I hover across different movement dots to see where I have my best shot. I know this is a thing, but I have no goddamn clue how to do it. It seems overly difficult to activate.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:11
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Myrmidongs posted:One of my problems with the indicator is that I can't actually figure out how to "target lock" something and move. I want to see what my percentages are as I hover across different movement dots to see where I have my best shot. I know this is a thing, but I have no goddamn clue how to do it. It seems overly difficult to activate. If I recall correctly: Click the movement dot you want to move to, but rather than selecting a facing, hover the target. If you want to back out, just don't select a facing, and you haven't committed to the move. If I'm remembeing it wrong, then its hover the dot and then hover the target, but that doesn't sound right in my head.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:13
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Click the spot you want to move to, then hover over the target. Hit 'ESC' to back out and do it with another spot. edit: Zaodai has it right. Moving is a 2-click affair. You choose a destination and then a facing, as long as you don't choose a facing you can back out the way I described. Q_res fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 05:13
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Myrmidongs posted:One of my problems with the indicator is that I can't actually figure out how to "target lock" something and move. I want to see what my percentages are as I hover across different movement dots to see where I have my best shot. I know this is a thing, but I have no goddamn clue how to do it. It seems overly difficult to activate. Yeah like people said, you can SORT of do that. But backwards with lots more clickspam, rather than what you are asking for where you anchor on a target, and them sweep your movement destination around to compare and contrast numbers. I'd really love what you are hoping for to also be an option, it would sure as hell cut down on turn times in multiplayer as well. At the very least the LoS and LRM lines do alter as you sweep the position around, which to be fair is more important to have update in real time.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:26
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EDIT: Wrong thread about giant robots with pretty explosions 
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Jun 3, 2017 05:53
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The Gate posted:I'm finding the Awesome with PPCs is actually better than I thought. Paired with the Orion (which tanks as well as an assault) to give LOS, it punches holes really well. Nothing likes taking 150 damage in big chunks from too far away to engage. Trebs are great for their cost with the crazy missile knockdowns, but they are really fragile. If you're playing the Death Valley map with the mineral fields everywhere (or alternatively plant a PPC Awesome in water) this somehow gets even more ridiculous.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:53
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So far I haven't last a match yet but easily could have and scraped by with one remaining pilot a couple times. That's a lot better than I expected from the ai. Then again I'm not a big battletech sperg.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:09
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The thing that annoys me most about the Awesome is that it doesn't have the heat management to fire the 3/2/3 pattern the mech is known for.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:09
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By the way is there a way to reserve if you don't immediately click it?
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Jun 3, 2017 06:12
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I played tabletop, and the AI doesn't put up a huge fight - I haven't lost more than 1 mech in a match so far. But aside from being quirky and somewhat easy to exploit, the fact that the AI mostly functions well seems really impressive.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:13
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Chronojam posted:By the way is there a way to reserve if you don't immediately click it?
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Jun 3, 2017 06:15
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Bubbacub posted:I played tabletop, and the AI doesn't put up a huge fight - I haven't lost more than 1 mech in a match so far. But aside from being quirky and somewhat easy to exploit, the fact that the AI mostly functions well seems really impressive. They could be better about staying grouped up. In about half my games they trickle in by weight class and get murdered in turn. Though they are pretty good at focus fire and pressuring damage targets.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:18
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Zaodai posted:Back up all the way to the point you don't have any mech selected, if you haven't moved or fired yet. Yep. When in doubt, press ESC.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:24
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Skippy McPants posted:The thing that annoys me most about the Awesome is that it doesn't have the heat management to fire the 3/2/3 pattern the mech is known for. It seems perfectly capable of doing 3/2/2/3 though.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:33
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Can you move to a certain spot and melee, I cant seem to do that without just going closest to closest.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:34
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Skippy McPants posted:The thing that annoys me most about the Awesome is that it doesn't have the heat management to fire the 3/2/3 pattern the mech is known for. Glad I'm not the only one who was annoyed by that. Also, after playing several games at the 25 million CBill cap I second that one of the AI's main issues ATM is that it does a poor job of sticking together for support when the units have significant differences in speed: unless you're on one of the tighter maps where you run into each other almost immediately the lights will almost always out pace the heavies and run into your arms to get focus fired down for not a lot of gain (or, to provide spotting for the Atlas hanging out in the back with its one LRM like the pilot is a MW:O pubbie). Don't know how much of the campaign AI overlaps with the skirmish AI (e.g. making sure that every enemy unit on a long mission doesn't immediately bumrush the player spawn), but the AI should probably have some ability to recognize the importance of not going YOLO until nearby units are in a decent position to actually participate, particularly if the initial contact is at a numbers/weight disadvantage.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:37
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So I'm not liking this dodge chance when the game says I have 100% to hit.
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Jun 3, 2017 06:38
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JacksLibido posted:So I'm not liking this dodge chance when the game says I have 100% to hit. Yeah, I think the weapon UI could be improved by simply tacking on a red 'X% Evasion' at the top of the weapon selection menu when you target an enemy. Maybe 'X% Damage Resistance' for Cover/Guarded, too. Edit: Talking about UI, I think the Heat UI would be cooler as thermostat style display instead of a bar. Maybe like colored LED lights either as numeric display or segments rather than smooth bar, color coded as well, green-yellow-red-blinking(for overheat)-SHUTDOWN Or perhaps even a gauge like you'd actually see in a vehicle. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 07:54
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A green-yellow-red gradient could do a more effective job conveying information, but it'd be a huge pain in the rear end for colorblind players.
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Jun 3, 2017 08:05
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Blue yellow red, then.
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Jun 3, 2017 08:25
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BenRGamer posted:Blue yellow red, then. What about a MW2 style one, where it fills to show heatsink capacity, then fills sgain with another colour for overheat. Danger territory is when the second bar fills
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Jun 3, 2017 08:32
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I just lost a match and still had a ton of fun. How? By bringing 4 Urbanmechs and DFA'ing a force with more than 6+ point value nearly to death. It didn't seem to register the final hit that killed off the 3rd enemy mech, as I died from losing both legs on my last urbie, but the only thing standing on the enemy side was a Griffin that had spent most of the match sniping from afar. I'm pretty sure my last DFA gave the pilot of a Shadow Hawk his final wound or crushed his head, too. I can just imagine a semi-battered Griffin trying to push through enemy ranks to reach their objective going "What the hell just happened?"
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Jun 3, 2017 11:19
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The heat bar is super intuitive though as it is right now. It's extremely clear how much heat you'll end up with before you hit the fire button and it changes dynamically as you toggle weapons on and off. And it also very clearly tells you if you'll hit shutdown or overheat penalties. I agree that evasive should be factored into the hit percentages - it's literally the only thing that isn't. Target moved, refire, target size, own pilot skill, range, etc. are all accounted for, but something that is just another to-hit penalty isn't. That's gonna confuse people a lot. If you want to make it clear that it's evasive that's tanking your hit chances, maybe colour them in a special color (and also use that color for the evasive icon in the little status bar under the mech-readout). Edit:vvv That's a really good point, since the damage numbers are right there in the UI it'd be cool if it took cover, guarded, crystal fields and such into account. Also precision shot taken into account on the weapon damage display (it already updates dynamically, turning the defensive stuff it disables orange when you toggle to a single weapon a precision shot pilot). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 12:02
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Speaking of dynamic feedback, it would be cool if the weapon damage updated in the same manner as hit chance. A lot of stuff like range and buff/debuff status has an effect on how much damage you deal and it would be nice to see that reflected in the UI.
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Jun 3, 2017 12:07
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Also piling in on the 'game should not tell me my hit chance is 100% when actually it is 50%' bandwagon.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:13
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Just got rekt by the AI, I made my share of errors and they eagerly and violently took advantage. Only scored one kill and it was because I decided to say 'gently caress it' and sent my Catapult into a murderfrenzy with 4 MD Laser shots on their Assault and 2 LRMs on their Shadowhawk (killed it). Shutdown and overheated but the match was lost anyways.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:25
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Alchenar posted:Also piling in on the 'game should not tell me my hit chance is 100% when actually it is 50%' bandwagon.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:36
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Results so far, in chronological order: utter and total loss, close defeat, victory with barely some scratched paint.kingcom posted:Can you move to a certain spot and melee, I cant seem to do that without just going closest to closest. Yeah. Click the mech that you want to melee, then click one of the empty areas next to it where you could have moved. Your movement indicator should then switch to the new location. I think there might be some limitations on which alternate positions you can pick, but I haven't figured it out yet.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:36
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I'm not sure if it's already the case, but having stability damage reduced like real damage from cover and other DR effects might go a long way toward making LRM knockdowns less oppressive (also maybe give Brace a stability resistance buff for a turn afterwards).
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Jun 3, 2017 14:47
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Except I'm pretty sure stability damage is intended as a soft counter to evasion and damage resistance. If you're facing a mech with Evasive Move and don't have Sensor Lock available, then knocking them unsteady with LRM fire is the next best solution. As an alternative, you could allow LRMs (and SRMs) to ignore evasion effects but lower their base stability damage so that they could more reliably knock evasive mechs unsteady but would also take more hits overall to achieve a knockdown. That would also indirectly nerf Evasive Move, which is probably too good, and make Sensor Lock feel a little less mandatory. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 15:00
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I'm only basing this off watching streams, but it feels weird that evasive move is just as effective when used on an Atlas as on a Locust.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:32
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Kanos posted:I'm only basing this off watching streams, but it feels weird that evasive move is just as effective when used on an Atlas as on a Locust. Yeah I would be surprised if this continues. You'd expect maybe 50% for Lights and Mediums, 25 or 33 for heavies, and then either 25 or 15 for Assaults.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:40
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Something like that could work. Although they'd need to break it out into a separate buff from the one your get from sprinting. 50% evasion when you sprint makes sense regardless of weight-class because you skip your entire shooting turn.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:46
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Kanos posted:I'm only basing this off watching streams, but it feels weird that evasive move is just as effective when used on an Atlas as on a Locust. Yeah, it is. I think Evasion should be a function of distance moved, with the skill making the pilot more efficient (for example one unit of movement with Evasion being worth two units without).
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Jun 3, 2017 15:54
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