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kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Gharbad the Weak posted:

It's possible I won't be at the game on Monday the 15th. It'll probably depend on how I feel. I'm having to drive to Dallas because some dudes are talking to me about possibly giving me a job or something? It's a 3 hour drive each way, though, so I might be exhausted.

drat son, that is a drive and a half. Godspeed. Meanwhile....


"Despite several extremely fierce battles, the War of the Burning Sky was a relatively brief affair in terms of military history, and did not see any significant innovations in the theory or practice of warfare. If anything there was a certain amount of regression to older modes of thinking, particularly in the area of strategic maneuvering. Conflict over the last sixty years had taken place in the shadow of the Torch of the Burning Sky, where Emperor Coaltongue could teleport an army practically anywhere on the continent with little warning and almost no countermeasure. Rumors that certain centers of magical thinking had developed teleport warding on an army-scale could not be confirmed, even to this day. Without the threat of an Imperial "firedrop", as they had become known, armies were more free to leave exposed flanks assuming they had accurately scouted that the flank was, indeed, secure.

Despite its brevity, the war had its share of exploits conducted by small bands of elite troops, such as the Imperial Colorguard, Dasseni Irregulars, and most famously the Stormbreakers. There was a certain refinement of the use of these teams, significantly advanced by men like Xavious Foebane and Warmaster Novowrath - doctrines which have since become required reading at the Spearpoint Academy.

Elite teams, often times referred to in military shorthand as "trumps", were primarily used as either proactive or reactive elements. Proactively they would be deployed to secure an objective, most famously seen in the Resistance's raid on the Scourge Fortress. However, it is important for a commander to recognize that you cannot simply deploy a trump in place of a regular contingent of troops, as there are a number of army functions that a handful of people simply cannot perform no matter how competent. Consider the example of Grand Commander Draven Nash and his Unchained Companions - while they managed to hold the bridge of Castle Redmont for a time during the Redmont Siege, once Coaltongue was able to get the bulk of his forces maneuvered into position there was no way for the Unchained Companions to repel, or even survive, wave after wave of infantry and withering archery fire - no matter their competence in small team combat.

More common, then, would be for a commander to hold his trumps in reserve, adopting a reactive approach. A battle plan would be devised without consideration for such special units, and then it would be a test of the commander's wits to determine the best moment to commit his trumps to either exploit an opening in the enemy's lines or shore up a deficiency in his own. Situations like this could see trumps deployed several times over the course of a battle as the tides of fortune shifted - especially in situations where both sides were using their trumps in a similar fashion. A potential break in the lines would see the attacker's trumps introduced to open it up, only to find them matched against the defender's trumps - it was common practice for the bulk of the forces to give such a conflict a wide berth, as the powers wielded by elite forces could cause immense collateral damage.

Lines of communication become even more essential in this scenario, as being able to respond quickly and send trumps where they are needed can mean the difference between victory and defeat...."

- Professor Kristin Highhill, "The Year of the Burning Sky"


You know what Jade loves? Nullifiers. Feel the love tonight, Monday, May 15th, at 7 PM PST.

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Al Baron
Nov 12, 2007
They were all out of Marquess.
I just want to confirm. Is there a game tonight? I remember you saying no.

Al Baron
Nov 12, 2007
They were all out of Marquess.
Sorry for the double post, but we're having a game on the 29th, yes?

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Al Baron posted:

Sorry for the double post, but we're having a game on the 29th, yes?

Oh yes, it is very much on.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

Oh yes, it is very much on.

we popin bottles #bricksquad

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


Feel free to shoot me down as I can do the regular time but it being a holiday in the US would we be able to move the game time up like an hour?

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
Who are the east coast people? We'd either have to cut the session short, or they'd be up until like 2:00AM on a monday

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


Gharbad the Weak posted:

Who are the east coast people? We'd either have to cut the session short, or they'd be up until like 2:00AM on a monday

By up I meant earlier not later

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
Oh, I'd be fine with that

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Works for me as well. Let's see if everyone shows up tonight Monday, May 29th, at 6 PM PST. That's Six, not Seven.

If nothing else, I'll be online and playing Endless Space 2 at that time because drat if that isn't a pretty game.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

Works for me as well. Let's see if everyone shows up tonight Monday, May 29th, at 6 PM PST. That's Six, not Seven.

If nothing else, I'll be online and playing Endless Space 2 at that time because drat if that isn't a pretty game.

uuuugh I shouldn't buy more games but maaaan. also yes 6

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
Initial thoughts:

Supreme Commander Allied Forces - We could offer him to be Supreme Commander of this theatre of the allied forces, which could further be negotiated as what counts as each theatre. Note: While we can negotiate on behalf of the resistance military, we don't have the ability to negotiate on behalf of the other sovereigns. And this kind of thing could be a deal-breaker for them.

Favorable Borders - Sounds okay to me, if we have to cave on one thing I'm okay with this.

New Emperor of Ragesia - Ragesia governed by a council that includes him, perhaps? Would also include local representatives and representatives from other allied factions. Frankly, this demand sounds kind of ridiculous at first glance.

Torch of the Burning Sky - Counteroffer to unmake it so that no one has it.

Al Baron
Nov 12, 2007
They were all out of Marquess.

TheDemon posted:

Torch of the Burning Sky - Counteroffer to unmake it so that no one has it.
Isn't the Torch essential for solving the whole "teleport and take fire damage' thing?

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
Another thought, the Princess could sub in for the Emperor in some of these demands after negotiating them down a little, which may satisfy the Emperor but would be a better state of affairs.

Al Baron posted:

Isn't the Torch essential for solving the whole "teleport and take fire damage' thing?

After the war, we'd have to find some way to break it without breaking the world, yes.

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
All right, time to bring some of my HR training and immediately use it for loving WAR STRATEGY

TheDemon posted:

Torch of the Burning Sky - Counteroffer to unmake it so that no one has it.

That was Drago's plan no matter what, so I'm glad we have a reason to get everyone on board with it.

TheDemon posted:

Supreme Commander Allied Forces - We could offer him to be Supreme Commander of this theatre of the allied forces, which could further be negotiated as what counts as each theatre. Note: While we can negotiate on behalf of the resistance military, we don't have the ability to negotiate on behalf of the other sovereigns. And this kind of thing could be a deal-breaker for them.

Another way we might want to go at this is have him be equal to Our General, who is (I think? I don't remember for certain) Foebane, right? Basically the whole "We know our units, just as you know your units", although anyone we send to support the Shahalesti's war efforts would fall under his chain of command. Politically speaking, putting these guys immediately at the top of the chain of command opens up Mr. Shahalesti (We're talking to Shaladel, right?) to potential for political blowback: if he's immediately supreme commander, and like an orphanage burns, it'd be too easy to start turning people against the Shahalesti under the banner of "Hey, your SUPREME COMMANDER let your BABIES BURN TO DEATH, some rear end in a top hat he is amirite" and then we all have massive headaches. It'd also have huge morale issues throughout our entire army, because of the changing of the military chain of command mid-war. It could cause potential resentment, which could lead to unnecessary deaths. Someone, somewhere, is going to be an rear end in a top hat, and the Shahalesti are going to lose people for it.

Probably shouldn't mention this, but if we weren't in the whole "seriously turning the tide", this entire thing would be almost a given. Like, if they'd done this a few months ago, they'd probably immediately get everything they wanted, but as for right now, putting them suddenly in charge is going to send shockwaves down the personnel. Every loss is going to be put squarely on their shoulders, and one thing we don't want is for there to be a sudden call to war against the Shahalesti the second the Empire is put down.

Meanwhile, though, depending on what you mean by "this theater of the allied forces", we'll probably end up splitting forces up around somewhat, and some of them are inevitably going to end in a support position for the Shahalesti, including possibly us. Obviously, when we're dealing with his armies, he's in charge, and vice versa.

TheDemon posted:


Favorable Borders - Sounds okay to me, if we have to cave on one thing I'm okay with this.


New Emperor of Ragesia - Ragesia governed by a council that includes him, perhaps? Would also include local representatives and representatives from other allied factions. Frankly, this demand sounds kind of ridiculous at first glance.

So, if we're not willing to give him control of Ragesia (and it sounds like we're not), expanding the boarders are just going to lead to ANOTHER war, somewhere down the line. I'm not comfortable giving these guys extra land and power, because I'm pretty sure the next wave of empire might be them if we're not careful. So, we want something that makes their current situation more secure, without giving them any more power, and make it politically awkward to immediately launch an attack.

If Ragesia remains whole after this war, then we're inevitably going to have a second wave of wars, especially if we force them to, as a unit, lose land. That's a very real threat to the stability of the Ragesian Empire, and sooner or later a radical faction could take a swing specifically at Shahalesti. Whoever wins THAT war might go on a rampage (The Empire might not immediately go after the Shahalesti, they may invade Poland first. But sooner or later someone's going to make a move).

Having Mr. Shahalesti rule the country, or even the council of OUR allies ruling the nation, would also be huge political problems (This is actually where I'm struggling to find any real HR connections: I mean, this isn't a hostile takeover of a company where we can then fire select people and dissolve the company or something. This is actual land with actual people in it). Either way, it'd all but be a complete takeover of Ragesia, and unless we cover that place in military, there will be constant insurgency leading to full revolution. These lands stood by themselves for some time, until the Torch basically outmaneuvered the hell out of them, I imagine holding the Empire is going to be difficult. I agree with Demon that it's ridiculous.

I reread the players guide about Ragesia, and Ragesia used to be several nations: The northern area of the Kelaquois, the western plains of Latia, southern Chathus, and central Morrus. I, uh, can't find if something was to the EAST, but there's probably something there too. Either way, these guys presumably managed to stay independent for some time, with several of these nations being noted specifically as being powerful militarily, if not for literal army teleportation.

So, I want a counter-proposal to BOTH these points: restore the lands to pre-empire status. This would dramatically lessen the chances of the Shahalesti being attacked (along with anyone else), it could be marketed as restoring the land to its PROPER owners (making the people feel like winners, so less likely to result in radicalization), and it's awful hard to justify an invasion of THOSE forces when you just up and Gave Them Their Freedom from the Oppression of the Empire. Politically, you'd look like a dick, and probably have a bunch of other nations jump on you. Play up the Shahalesti and Sequen alliance as basically heroes On The Right Side of History, going down as super nice benevolent people. The Previous Nations would probably focus on rebuilding, but I imagine they'd potentially unite as a unit to defend AGAINST a Shahalesti invasion, but probably be less likely to unite specifically to expand as an Empire again. The Empire is literally decades old: more than likely there's still enough national pride to get these nations going, even if there'd be some awkward disentanglement.



Long story short, give the Shahalesti nothing and help them understand it's completely to their benefit not to go through with their stupid, stupid ideas.

Wasn't there at least one more demand that Shelly gave us?

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


I'm 90% sure, he's overasking for Supreme Commander so he'll get at least equal footing as Foebane and the other Generals. Currently the resistance iirc is comprised of a coalation of Generals each operating their own Armies. (kaynorr c/d?)

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Kelaquois, Latia, Chathus, Morrus must be independent.

Also I am not giving Foebane's job to this guy. Nor our nice stick.

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

I think it's all been stated, but just in case here are the five items on the agenda for negotiations with His Perpetual Radiance, King Shaaladel of the Shining Kingdom.

  1. The subjugation of Ragesia and dethroning of Leska. Pretty much a given, but in case anyone was thinking of just trying to fight the empire to a draw or letting Leska stay on the throne.
  2. Naming Shaaladel as supreme commander of all forces opposing Ragesia. This effectively turns the existing Resistance army into a sizeable wing of the Shining Kingdom military. Obviously very problematic when it comes to troops that are part of Dassen or the Sindaire uprising. Seaquen proper only commands the loyalty of a group of able-bodied refugees plus various mercenary companies it has relationships with.
  3. Redrawing the borders between Ragesia and the Shining Kingdom. In practice this means extending the northern border of the Shining Kingdom past Ycengled Phuurst, around the mountains, and some swath of what is currently northeastern Ragesia. There is no incredibly valuable natural resource in this area, but it allows troops stationed there a fast and straight shot to Ragos itself if the Shahalesti ever feel like taking their army out for a stroll in the future.
  4. Shaaladel to hold the thrones of both Ragesia and the Shining Kingdom. They would still be separate states, but Shaaladel would be head of state for both. Most likely in practice this means one or more Shahalesti regents would be running day-to-day in Ragesia for at least a decade. There isn't anything in the way of historical precedent like this, so this one has a lot of grey area.
  5. Torch of the Burning Sky to be turned over to Shaaladel at the end of the war. Both to guarantee military stability and to allow arcanists at the Spiral Tower, which is of course The Greatest Repository Of Arcane Knowledge Anywhere, to figure out how to unfuck the Burning Sky.

As much as I would love to have an intricate minigame representing what is essentially the Yalta conference for the War of the Burning Sky, Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is so not the system for that. This will be run as five skill checks with one person rolling Diplomacy while the others offer Aid Another actions with any skill they can convince me of. The result of those skill checks will be the middle ground that can be hammered out, and at the end it will be up to you to either accept or reject the final document.

Herr Tog posted:

Kelaquois, Latia, Chathus, Morrus must be independent.

The Shining Kingdom of Shahalesti was built on top of Morrus, so that one isn't coming back. It's an interesting story as part of the overall history of the Eladrin, I'll write it up next to provide background to the man on the other side of the negotiations.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Okay fam, which of these is most important for us to strike down? I feel it is the freeing Ragesian subjugated states and keeping the torch.

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
We're getting a roll on anything we want, so we're rolling on everything we want. We've got counter-proposals set, so hopefully that'll give some bonuses if we say them in nice ways. If anyone has particularly good ways to say some of our stuff, feel free to jot some ideas down. I'll see if I can come up with a thing or two.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
Personally, I feel that both Supreme Commander and the double Thrones need to be shot down and moderated, and the Torch is a definite "no" that needs to be phrased politely.

I don't even feel we have the authority to offer Supreme Commander, because there are so many polities in their own right that are cooperating here and some of them are kingdoms that probably talk up to being Equal to the Shining Kingdom. At best we can represent Gate Pass militia and the Seaquen "army". At best. And even that isn't really workable. As far as an argument goes, we should reference the most troublesome polities (Dassen comes to mind) and propose some kind of structure where the Emperor has authority equal to his station. Maybe the leading polity on each front commands any forces sent there? Maybe some kind of war council? IDK.

Ruling the Ragesian state is on the face of it, kind of ridiculous. Most monarchs would at least have some kind of claim before they tried that kind of grab. It would be no more legitimate than Leska is right now. A post-Empire government of some sort does matter, and I think unless we roll very well we may have to cede some kind of influence here, but I would say that legitimacy and stability are key, and a foreign Emperor with no actual claim doesn't provide either. May not want to be that direct.

I'd be okay cooperating with the Spiral Tower to unfuck the Burning Sky, but we definitely cannot hand it over entirely. That would just lead to another Empire situation. The only real solution is to end the Burning Sky and find out how to end the Torch without causing another Burning Sky. It's definitely okay to argue that yes we want the Burning Sky gone and will cooperate for that, but no the Torch has to get gone permanently for the good of the world, and for the stability of the post-war era. Too much power in the hands of any one group will end badly.

TheDemon fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 2, 2017

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
Screw fixing the burning sky, if it comes down to it. We don't do mass teleportation in America, and we seem to have done well until about like the past year or so.

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Sadly, there will be no game tonight. The arrival of houseguests has left everything in a degree of disarray. I hope to have the situation cleaned up in the next week, at which point the negotiations will resume.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

Sadly, there will be no game tonight. The arrival of houseguests has left everything in a degree of disarray. I hope to have the situation cleaned up in the next week, at which point the negotiations will resume.

PROFESSOR I NEED AN EXTENSION FOR THE WAR COUNCIL RESOLUTION PROJECT writing un STYLE RESOLUTIONS WITHOUT CALLING ASSHOLES ASSHOLES IS HAAAARD

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Herr Tog posted:

PROFESSOR I NEED AN EXTENSION FOR THE WAR COUNCIL RESOLUTION PROJECT writing un STYLE RESOLUTIONS WITHOUT CALLING ASSHOLES ASSHOLES IS HAAAARD

That it is. Even the real U.N. has trouble trying to call people dickwads without using those words. Diplomacy hrrrd.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

That it is. Even the real U.N. has trouble trying to call people dickwads without using those words. Diplomacy hrrrd.

Also who is the name of the guy we brought back to life with a tea set who owes my daughter one etiquette lesson?
Also a list of all allied nations as to not forget someone.

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.

Herr Tog posted:

Also who is the name of the guy we brought back to life with a tea set who owes my daughter one etiquette lesson?
Also a list of all allied nations as to not forget someone.

We just call him Jelly these days

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Gharbad the Weak posted:

We just call him Jelly these days

what is his official country of origin?

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer
I am purposely putting in ideas that king will want stricken down and I am enjoying myself too much.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer
So i feel like, as a write this thing, that immediately we can agree to the first thing and then we can rebuff him with: "We are not elected or designated representative of all States fighting Ragesia at the moment and cannot speak for them on these other matters."

I'll post my madness at 7pm PST

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer
posted recognizing that the formatting needs work


kaynorr posted:


I think it's all been stated, but just in case here are the five items on the agenda for negotiations with His Perpetual Radiance, King Shaaladel of the Shining Kingdom.


  1. The subjugation of Ragesia and dethroning of Leska. Pretty much a given, but in case anyone was thinking of just trying to fight the empire to a draw or letting Leska stay on the throne.

  2. Naming Shaaladel as supreme commander of all forces opposing Ragesia. This effectively turns the existing Resistance army into a sizeable wing of the Shining Kingdom military. Obviously very problematic when it comes to troops that are part of Dassen or the Sindaire uprising. Seaquen proper only commands the loyalty of a group of able-bodied refugees plus various mercenary companies it has relationships with.

  3. Redrawing the borders between Ragesia and the Shining Kingdom. In practice this means extending the northern border of the Shining Kingdom past Ycengled Phuurst, around the mountains, and some swath of what is currently northeastern Ragesia. There is no incredibly valuable natural resource in this area, but it allows troops stationed there a fast and straight shot to Ragos itself if the Shahalesti ever feel like taking their army out for a stroll in the future.

  4. Shaaladel to hold the thrones of both Ragesia and the Shining Kingdom. They would still be separate states, but Shaaladel would be head of state for both. Most likely in practice this means one or more Shahalesti regents would be running day-to-day in Ragesia for at least a decade. There isn't anything in the way of historical precedent like this, so this one has a lot of grey area.

  5. Torch of the Burning Sky to be turned over to Shaaladel at the end of the war. Both to guarantee military stability and to allow arcanists at the Spiral Tower, which is of course The Greatest Repository Of Arcane Knowledge Anywhere, to figure out how to unfuck the Burning Sky.


As much as I would love to have an intricate minigame representing what is essentially the Yalta conference for the War of the Burning Sky, Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is so not the system for that. This will be run as five skill checks with one person rolling Diplomacy while the others offer Aid Another actions with any skill they can convince me of. The result of those skill checks will be the middle ground that can be hammered out, and at the end it will be up to you to either accept or reject the final document.



The Shining Kingdom of Shahalesti was built on top of Morrus, so that one isn't coming back. It's an interesting story as part of the overall history of the Eladrin, I'll write it up next to provide background to the man on the other side of the negotiations.




1. Seeing the need to end hostilities and secure peace in the region and in our time this conference sees to enact these actions:

a.Ragesia will be subjugated and the illegal reign of Leska will be ended.


i. To accomplish this goal we will form a War Council of the allied forces to best utilize special assets for the war effort.

1. Members of this War council shall include, at the time of acceptance of their new station, at the point of its founding: One King Shaalade, one Zavious Foebane, Novorath of the Stormbreakers, a Sindaire person, a Dassen Person, an Ostalin person, and a gate pass person, an impartial Raven Queen observer, One Professor Simion as an Observer, Ingrid Zod as an observer and Jelly Guy as an observer.

2. In recognition of the importance of the persons listed above they will be given the ability to delegate this duty to someone else within their organization.

3. Whomever is decided for the positions of either Sequin or The Shining Kingdom will exercise veto privilege on operations only military in nature, both covert or overt.

4. Veto power shall be used only in an instance where a member of the war council presents a plan of action or suggests a use for a war asset and a member with veto has found it to be too risky, not well thought out, or a mismanagement of vital war assets in a theater or in general.

5. One veto may not override another veto. Veto is overturned if all members without veto privilege find the plan or use valid and sound.

6. Council is not held unless all the following are true:

6.1. All members with veto privilege are present.

6.2. two members without veto privilege are present.

6.3. One Observer is present.

6.4. All members attending are able to understand and hear one another with or without the aid of a translator, machines, or minor magics.

6.5. Members are proven to be alive, of sound body and mind, and are solely in control of themselves.

7. New members shall be added later with a simple majority of all current members voting.

8. Veto privilege shall be given only with approval of all members with veto and majority of non-veto members.

9. Veto privilege shall be revoked with the supermajority, 75%, of non-veto members decision.

10. In recognition of the sovereignty of all members non-veto members may leave whenever they wish and veto-privileged members must petition for a vote, simple majority, to leave the council.

11. War assets are:

11.1 Personnel in combat roles, non-combat roles, commissioned, and noncommissioned.

11.2 materials of war such as weapons, war mounts, armour, siege material, and non commercial transports, various currencies and diplomatic materials.

11.3 Various magics, material and nonmaterial.

11.4 Exhaustible natural materials previously used in constructing other materials of war.

12. Observer states may be added by the petition of three members or 1/10 of voting members, whichever is greatest at time of petition, and the candidate observer organization.

13. Observer states have no votes and are sworn to secrecy about matters of the council. They may provide expert opinions during council on all matters being voted on.

14. All members have only one vote on each matter, regardless of veto privilege or seniority.



2. Seeing the need to prevent future hostilities and one of the means of doing so will be weakening Ragesia’s future defensive position.

A.This will be accomplished by ceding lands and all military positions and fortifications to The Shining Kingdom.


B.Additionally certain key magical resources shall be ceded to Seaquen from various states to strengthen Seaquen’s ability to aid in peacekeeping missions and guaranteeing the sovereignty of States in the future.


i.The lands ceded to Seaquen may have assets removed by previous managers in a timely manner before formal transfer.

C. This map will be used as a guide.




3. Recognizing that the Ragesian state’s size and composition just previous to open hostilities was formed illegally we move to remedy the situation thusly:

A.Knowing that the illegal occupation of various states has only been a decade or more and no permanent cultural change occurring the States of Kelaquois, Latia, and Chathus shall be liberated.


i. The newly liberated neighbor states, N.L.N.S., will given member status in the War Council.

Ii. if one of the N.L.N.S has a valid surviving monarchy they will be placed in charge of their respective country.

Iii. If not, a regency council will be formed and the nations will move towards a slavery free democratic society.

Iv. To further the aforementioned goals no war debts, financial or monetary penalties or restrictions will be imposed upon the N.L.N.S.

V. To remove the financial strain of armed forces from the N.L.N.S. Defensive pacts will be formed with the New Ragesian State, The Shining Kingdom, and Seaquen.

B.With Leska deposed a regency council will be established with the goal of a peaceful Ragesia moving towards a slavery free democratic society.


C.To aid in this goal Ragesia will become a member of the War Council.


D.To further the aforementioned goals no war debts, financial or monetary penalties or restrictions will be imposed upon the New Ragesian State.


E.To remove the financial strain of armed forces from the New Ragesian State Defensive pacts will be formed with the N.L.N.S, The Shining Kingdom, and Seaquen.


F.To prevent corruption: no person or persons who were previously in the Ragesian government or currently holding a position within the governments of Seaquen, The Shining Kingdom or other countries within the War Council shall hold or exercise authority over the regencies or the democratic activities of the N.L.N.S. or the New Ragesian State.


4. Acknowledging the power and importance of the Torch of the Burning Sky we shall deal with it thusly:

A: Upon the cessation of hostilities, redrawing of borders and the formation of all necessary regencies the ownership of the Torch shall transfer ownership to a trust composed of the Seaquen college of magics, The Stormbreakers, and The Spiral Tower.

B. Their charge shall be to firstly guard it from use in future hostile military actions.

I. to accomplish this they shall be removed from being under the authority of the War council and relinquish any positions of authority in the War council.

Ii. these four, College of magics/Spiral tower/Stormbreakers/Trust shall be given four independent Observer status in the War council if not already having them.

Iii. The Trust, as a legal entity, shall be maintained by 3 priests, one of each selected by the trustees. One of these priests will be designated as the Observer, by a vote(75% majority) of the priests and trustees, who will serve this function in the War Council.

Iv. If a priest dies of natural causes then the respective trustee may select a new priest of any recognized faith. In the advent of foul play the priests designated successor priests shall take their place.

C. The second charge shall be how to keep the Torch secret and safe.

D. The Third Charge shall be to further understand the Torch with the goal of reducing or eliminating the ‘Burning Sky’ effect.

E. The Fourth is understanding if the third or first charge cannot be kept then The Torch will be destroyed irrevocably.

F. The Fifth Charge shall be that the Trust and trustees shall not attempt to copy, empower, recreate, or reproduce the Torch. All persons found doing so will be removed from the Trust or and irrevocably destroyed.

G. The Sixth Charge is that these charges will be subject to change, based upon factual, peer reviewed findings of the Trust or trustees, only after vote by the Trustees.

5. To secure peace now and forever and foster peaceful and prosperous relationships in the region it needed that:

A.The War Council becomes the Union of the Peninsula.


B.All Nations, City-states, Unions, and Confederacies not yet a member are invited to the Union as members.


C.All current rules for voting, member abilities, veto privilege, current members and observer abilities are unalterable, unremovable, and non suspendable during this transition period and if the Union is ever being dissolved.


D.New rules may be presented for voting after responses from all new invites has been received.


E.These new rules should follow how the Union will help with Democratic processes, economic partnerships, and diplomatic missions.


F.A new rules shall be presented for voting suggesting the formation of a defensive military union to disincentivize aggression within the union and hostilities outside of the Peninsula to the North.

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.
After a quick read through, I'll give it a second later:

The short version is that this is way beyond the scope of the project, here. We're dealing with what bribes the Shahalesti want to stay involved in the war. I think we should deal with them as such. Starting an entire United Nations is something we cannot do at this point, and if we tried, the most likely response would be "no."

Isn't this still giving away lands that belonged to a conquered nation to Shahalesti? This joining is pretty opportunistic, and quite frankly it's entirely in their best interest that we win this war. We shouldn't have to give away another country's land to get these guys on board.

Also, pretty sure Dassen and Ostalin are going to question the idea of them losing territory to Seaquen. I'm not even sure where that came from. We can't make that kind of deal anyway, there aren't any representatives from those states. They could easily say "no".

I'm still on the side of territory should be returned to the former states that included them. Unless there's something I'm missing that the Fire Forest and the area to the Northwest of Shahalesti were taken from the Shahalesti, I don't think we should be giving them land.

Giving all military positions and fortifications to the Shahalesti could pretty easily turn into "Hey, we have military control of the entire empire. How about we DON'T give any of it back?" As long as they hold the country militarily, they hold power over Ragesia. I mean, I'd be ok with this, if this guy didn't open with the idea of him becoming the new Emperor of Ragesia.

Assuming Veto power continues post-war: Veto power to Shahalesti and Sequen in military matters: unless I'm mistaken, Sequen doesn't have a force really equal to the Shahalesti. If the Shahalesti want to do something militarily (like take over a chunk of Ragesia) and Sequen vetoes it, then there's the possibility the Shahalesti will just go "No thanks we're taking it anyway". Sequen cannot enforce its veto.

There's nothing saying that the other kingdoms will join this United Nations group. While this is an interesting longterm goal, it's way outside the scope of these current issues.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Gharbad the Weak posted:

After a quick read through, I'll give it a second later:
While this is an interesting longterm goal, it's way outside the scope of these current issues.

Yup. You have got it. He is asking for stuff we can't really speak on so I would start rambling at him with some of the most insane counter offers. Also is was strangely enjoyable to write. Oh and gently caress the Torch

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Narratively, I just want to throw out there that creating a new alliance of nations is entirely within the scope of the campaign. Don't underestimate the fact that you are the goddamn Stormbreakers; at this point you are personally responsible for saving Seaquen, Dassen, Sindaire (saving in progress but you're certainly local heroes there for supporting the Rebellion during summer break), Gate Pass (assuming all goes well), extinguishing the Fire Forest....etc. Changing the fate of nations is paragon tier poo poo, and so is well within your wheelhouse. While you're correct that you may not have the formal authority to negotiate on behalf of the other nations, you probably wield the most informal authority of anyone on the continent.

I will say that at this point in history, the regions of Kelaquois, Latia, and Chathus have been part of the empire for three generations. Granting them freedom would be kind of like making Prussia and Austria independent states in the aftermath of WWII. An interesting proposal to be sure - let's posit that there is some sort of viable "Free Latia" movement but not a widespread sense of independence any more. Drakus did a drat effective job in creating a sense of unified national identity in the last 80ish years.

That said, if you want to be humble/reserved as a matter of character, go nuts. People who in the past decided they're badass enough to alter the shape of the continent include Drakus Coaltounge, Shaaladhel, Pilus, Leska....not really an awesome track record at this moment. Gharbad certainly has a point about the complexity of the situation with the Shining Kingdom. If you entirely remove Ragesia as a postwar actor, the Shahalesti are the big kids on the block by a significant margin. They are not bigger than everyone else put together - if you were able to get Dassen/Ostalin/Sindaire to act in concert they'd be at least a match if not superior.

I am personally fascinated by this kind of stuff so I eagerly look forward to what you decide to put forth as your offer in the coming week. The sad story of Morrus is still to come.

kaynorr fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 6, 2017

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.

kaynorr posted:

Narratively, I just want to throw out there that creating a new alliance of nations is entirely within the scope of the campaign.

I meant that it's outside of the scope of this particular discussion with Mr. King, not necessarily with the campaign as a whole.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

Narratively, I just want to throw out there that creating a new alliance of nations is entirely within the scope of the campaign. Don't underestimate the fact that you are the goddamn Stormbreakers; at this point you are personally responsible for saving Seaquen, Dassen, Sindaire (saving in progress but you're certainly local heroes there for supporting the Rebellion during summer break), Gate Pass (assuming all goes well), extinguishing the Fire Forest....etc. Changing the fate of nations is paragon tier poo poo, and so is well within your wheelhouse. While you're correct that you may not have the formal authority to negotiate on behalf of the other nations, you probably wield the most informal authority of anyone on the continent.

I will say that at this point in history, the regions of Kelaquois, Latia, and Chathus have been part of the empire for three generations. Granting them freedom would be kind of like making Prussia and Austria independent states in the aftermath of WWII. An interesting proposal to be sure - let's posit that there is some sort of viable "Free Latia" movement but not a widespread sense of independence any more. Drakus did a drat effective job in creating a sense of unified national identity in the last 80ish years.

That said, if you want to be humble/reserved as a matter of character, go nuts. People who in the past decided they're badass enough to alter the shape of the continent include Drakus Coaltounge, Shaaladhel, Pilus, Leska....not really an awesome track record at this moment. Gharbad certainly has a point about the complexity of the situation with the Shining Kingdom. If you entirely remove Ragesia as a postwar actor, the Shahalesti are the big kids on the block by a significant margin. They are not bigger than everyone else put together - if you were able to get Dassen/Ostalin/Sindaire to act in concert they'd be at least a match if not superior.

I am personally fascinated by this kind of stuff so I eagerly look forward to what you decide to put forth as your offer in the coming week. The sad story of Morrus is still to come.

I did not realize it was three generations and not three decades like I remember. Oh dear.

But you are correct, I knew in a weird way the King would take this ridiculous resolution seriously and probably counter-counter offer which is why in true International style I asked for more than I want or need. I named the map insanity for a reason.
The main reason I went for freeing the states was because then whoever does take Ragesia in the end through Regency or sphere of influence doesn't get the golden goose they planned on.

And in all fairness after WWII Germany was segmented that lead to the cold war so maybe we shouldn't do that :P

Free Latia :v:

Gharbad the Weak posted:

I meant that it's outside of the scope of this particular discussion with Mr. King, not necessarily with the campaign as a whole.

Mr. King has been ridiculous and his minors have been right arseholes. They are prob seriously expecting an answer and may even think their demands are reasonable.

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003

Herr Tog posted:

Mr. King has been ridiculous and his minors have been right arseholes. They are prob seriously expecting an answer and may even think their demands are reasonable.

Most of his requests fall within the range of "maximal benefit to me but reasonable", with possibly the exception of the throne of Ragesia. That one is....complicated.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

kaynorr posted:

Most of his requests fall within the range of "maximal benefit to me but reasonable", with possibly the exception of the throne of Ragesia. That one is....complicated.

Yup, without admitting that: 'oh I am the regions super power and now every couple of years I can gobble a little here and there'

The only Shahalesti I trust in the princess and that is only as far as I can throw her now that her girlfriend has betrayed us.

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.

kaynorr posted:

Most of his requests fall within the range of "maximal benefit to me but reasonable", with possibly the exception of the throne of Ragesia. That one is....complicated.


I don't really think he has room to negotiate, and I think these demands are unreasonable, other than allying to fight the Empire.

Restructuring the entire army to have Shahalesti at the top is a problem both in logistics and moral. This would also allow the Shahalesti to pick and choose who goes where, which may put them in a better strategic position should they decide to do something like invade Ragesia.

Redrawing the boarders so that the Shahalesti can more easily attack Ragesia is a land grab on top of an aggressive move which will lead to further wars. With his open admission that he wants to rule over Ragesia, giving him a clear strategic advantage to attack Ragesia is a bad move.

Giving Ragesia to Shahadel wholesale is ridiculous.

Giving them the Torch is just creating another teleporting army superpower, to someone who is openly talking about expanding his territory.

This guy is all but admitting to being the next Evil Empire. He should be happy to have an equal say in what happens after the war is finished. I suggest we reject every one of his demands, save the alliance to fight off a common enemy.

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Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Gharbad the Weak posted:

I don't really think he has room to negotiate, and I think these demands are unreasonable, other than allying to fight the Empire.

Restructuring the entire army to have Shahalesti at the top is a problem both in logistics and moral. This would also allow the Shahalesti to pick and choose who goes where, which may put them in a better strategic position should they decide to do something like invade Ragesia.

Redrawing the boarders so that the Shahalesti can more easily attack Ragesia is a land grab on top of an aggressive move which will lead to further wars. With his open admission that he wants to rule over Ragesia, giving him a clear strategic advantage to attack Ragesia is a bad move.

Giving Ragesia to Shahadel wholesale is ridiculous.

Giving them the Torch is just creating another teleporting army superpower, to someone who is openly talking about expanding his territory.

This guy is all but admitting to being the next Evil Empire. He should be happy to have an equal say in what happens after the war is finished. I suggest we reject every one of his demands, save the alliance to fight off a common enemy.

Agreed, how do you feel about the three generation occupied territories?

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