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jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
If not try jd at globaltimeattack.

From reading the current rules it is not very clear. But I would assume RCAs, adjustable links, changes in camber and caster with like top mounts or an ALK type part are okay. But not, say, changing inner control arm pickups (we drilled new holes higher up in the crossmember on our mod/ltd subaru).

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drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.
We got a Schroth Enduro for the race car and it's amazing.

nollij
Aug 30, 2006

Wait, wait, wait...

When did this happen?!?

jamal posted:

If not try jd at globaltimeattack.

From reading the current rules it is not very clear. But I would assume RCAs, adjustable links, changes in camber and caster with like top mounts or an ALK type part are okay. But not, say, changing inner control arm pickups (we drilled new holes higher up in the crossmember on our mod/ltd subaru).

I have Race Fab LCAs which have adjustable camber/caster/RC. I also have SSB designs uprights which dramatically adjust RC and toe (2" correction). They still use the Mcpherson strut geometry and stock pickup points though.

crazzy
Jul 1, 2004
Martial Arts Master

SpaceRangerJoe posted:

ABS doesn't work. I'm pretty sure it's a bad pump, or more likely the wiring in the pump. It's on the to-do list. I can drive and manage to not lock them up, so I just wasn't in a hurry to fix it.

The outer edge on the front tires goes first. I put a big Ground Control bar up front (from a stock bar), but I've only driven about 15 minutes on track since I put it on. It helped a lot with mid/late corner understeer, so that might help tire wear too. I run as much camber as I can, usually 3.5-3.8 degrees front.

-3.5 to -3.8 degrees of camber is a lot for nt01's, the big front bar should help a lot. Maybe you need a bigger bar out back to make it understeer a bit less? But with that amount of camber, you're really only braking with the inside shoulders of the tires, which means a lot less contact patch, which means abs engages sooner/you lock them up sooner, etc.

You can get away with that much camber on hoosiers/slicks because they just have so much grip under braking, I haven't seen any "street" tires come anywhere close to slicks under braking still. Street tires always feel sketchy/unstable with maximum braking compared to slicks, so a lot of people run -2.5 to -3.0 camber up front with "street" tires and just do more with sway bars and spring rates to optimize tire wear instead of compromising braking performance.

I am calling nt01's "street" tires because their performance/characteristics is much more similar to the 200TW's nowadays than it is a hoosier r7.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Two things I'm thinking of.

Number one, had an annoying end to a race weekend when a cloudburst meant my dad put the car off the track on the first lap and spent the whole race watching stuff go past in his rear view mirror from 20 yards into a swamp, and I had to go bike around the track to figure out WTF happened when he didn't come around again. Between this and various other reasons, we're thinking about radios now - not pro grade worldbeating radio setups yet, kinda between http://www.sampsonracing.com/The-Starter-5watt-Package-for-2way-driver-to-crew-p/starter-plus.htm http://clubracingradios.com/Budget-5-Watt-Radio-System-5WATTAFF.htm or http://www.racingsafetywarehouse.com/product/600080141.html and yes I know, Chinese radios aren't going to be as good as something where I'm paying more. Right now it's between "go cheapish to prove out the usefulness" or "don't do this at all". And yes I know I'm supposed to get a license for GMRS.

Secondly, I sat and looked at the run group listing for my local org (Midwest Council) and realized I can squeeze the NC MX-5 into 2, maybe 3 (though potential backmarker in the third so probably not) different run groups / races per day. Given the price of Hoosiers and their falloff, and Midwest Council not actually caring if I throw bigger wheels on, I was thinking of going with Toyo RRs. It would be 235/40/17 Toyo RRs on 17x8 or 17x9 wheels, vs the Hoosier R7s in 225/45/17 on stock 17x7 wheels. How much lap time am I likely to lose on a 1:25ish lap, and will I be able to keep that going for more heat cycles?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
You're going to have to install an external antenna no matter which "solution" you choose. If you want in car radios, do it correctly the first time around.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


We used that first system you linked for a couple years and they worked ok some of the time. They were rentals which didn't help but even when they were working great at a track like Road America we'd have communication for 1/4 of the track at best. Basically if you couldn't see the car you didn't have a good chance of it working.

We ungraded to a powered base station with a big rear end antenna and similar in the car with a more reasonably sized antenna. Both ran off 12v then we had additional handheld units for walking around the pit and if we weren't sitting in the trailer. With this setup we could hold conversations anywhere on track.

We ended up with something similar to this - http://www.sampsonracing.com/Racing-Radios-Pro-20watt-Road-Racer-Endurance-Pack-p/20-watt-road-racer.htm

SpaceRangerJoe
Dec 24, 2003

The little hand says it's time to rock and roll.

crazzy posted:

-3.5 to -3.8 degrees of camber is a lot for nt01's, the big front bar should help a lot. Maybe you need a bigger bar out back to make it understeer a bit less? But with that amount of camber, you're really only braking with the inside shoulders of the tires, which means a lot less contact patch, which means abs engages sooner/you lock them up sooner, etc.

You can get away with that much camber on hoosiers/slicks because they just have so much grip under braking, I haven't seen any "street" tires come anywhere close to slicks under braking still. Street tires always feel sketchy/unstable with maximum braking compared to slicks, so a lot of people run -2.5 to -3.0 camber up front with "street" tires and just do more with sway bars and spring rates to optimize tire wear instead of compromising braking performance.

I am calling nt01's "street" tires because their performance/characteristics is much more similar to the 200TW's nowadays than it is a hoosier r7.

That's good info, thanks. I was trying to compensate for the tire wear with camber. Someday I'll get back to the track and see what the new front bar does. I can pull the shims from the front struts to lose about half a degree of camber. It will be 2018 before I'm back on track, but I'll remember this. Thanks again!

nollij
Aug 30, 2006

Wait, wait, wait...

When did this happen?!?
Anyone else in the PNW doing track days this weekend or next weekend? I bought 5 bags of Goldfish
Crackers I wouldn't mind sharing at PDX tomorrow or The Ridge on June 9th.

nollij fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jun 1, 2017

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
i should get signed up for the T2 day on the 9th...just need to make sure i finish up with some work on my e30 before paying the fee

Ether Frenzy
Dec 22, 2006




Nap Ghost

mekilljoydammit posted:

Two things I'm thinking of.

Number one, had an annoying end to a race weekend when a cloudburst meant my dad put the car off the track on the first lap and spent the whole race watching stuff go past in his rear view mirror from 20 yards into a swamp, and I had to go bike around the track to figure out WTF happened when he didn't come around again. Between this and various other reasons, we're thinking about radios now - not pro grade worldbeating radio setups yet, kinda between http://www.sampsonracing.com/The-Starter-5watt-Package-for-2way-driver-to-crew-p/starter-plus.htm http://clubracingradios.com/Budget-5-Watt-Radio-System-5WATTAFF.htm or http://www.racingsafetywarehouse.com/product/600080141.html and yes I know, Chinese radios aren't going to be as good as something where I'm paying more. Right now it's between "go cheapish to prove out the usefulness" or "don't do this at all". And yes I know I'm supposed to get a license for GMRS.

Secondly, I sat and looked at the run group listing for my local org (Midwest Council) and realized I can squeeze the NC MX-5 into 2, maybe 3 (though potential backmarker in the third so probably not) different run groups / races per day. Given the price of Hoosiers and their falloff, and Midwest Council not actually caring if I throw bigger wheels on, I was thinking of going with Toyo RRs. It would be 235/40/17 Toyo RRs on 17x8 or 17x9 wheels, vs the Hoosier R7s in 225/45/17 on stock 17x7 wheels. How much lap time am I likely to lose on a 1:25ish lap, and will I be able to keep that going for more heat cycles?

I assume there's a rules reason you can't just glue a cheap prepaid phone to the interior of the car and just leave a call open the whole time with an earpiece going into the driver's helmet?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
What happens when the call drops? Also digital telephony sounds like poo poo half of the time anyways.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
You can do that, most plans have unlimited minutes these days anyway. But you need decent cell reception all the way around the track. We had radios, it was really nice to be able to tell the driver about traffic or problems on the track etc, especially since the car could only do about 2 flat out laps per session.

nollij posted:

I have Race Fab LCAs which have adjustable camber/caster/RC. I also have SSB designs uprights which dramatically adjust RC and toe (2" correction). They still use the Mcpherson strut geometry and stock pickup points though.

I think the uprights could be an issue.

jamal fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 2, 2017

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
From experience, Blackhawk Farms has lovely cell reception around a lot of it.

Ordered a setup using HYT radios. It might prove to not be good enough, but it's a place to start.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
What happened to DJ Commie, he used to work at PCI Race Radios

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Just keep in mind you're playing pirate radio with just about every race radio system. That linked system will be stomping on HAM bands.

e: just saw the thread on MT where you asked about the pirateness of this all.

FatCow fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jun 2, 2017

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

FatCow posted:

Just keep in mind you're playing pirate radio with just about every race radio system. That linked system will be stomping on HAM bands.

e: just saw the thread on MT where you asked about the pirateness of this all.

I actually *was* going to get a license... from what I'm seeing, the 5 watt stuff is GMRS which isn't that expensive or hard to get a license for.

nollij
Aug 30, 2006

Wait, wait, wait...

When did this happen?!?

BraveUlysses posted:

i should get signed up for the T2 day on the 9th...just need to make sure i finish up with some work on my e30 before paying the fee

Car crapped out not even all the way through first session. Initial impression was lack of ignition in cylinder 1 as it was flooded compared to the others when i pulled the plugs. Replacing spark plugs and coil packs didnt do anything. Now I am considering that the headgasket popped and that liquid is gas/coolant. Annoyingly my Laptop is having a problem reading from the Tactrix ECU logger to pull the logs and see what the knock looks like.

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

BlackMK4 posted:

What happened to DJ Commie, he used to work at PCI Race Radios

I actually worked for Rugged Radios as well a few years ago. Anyone is more than welcome to ask me about radios, LMR (Commercial) or Ham. I know them both, the legalities (none of it is legal!) and what/where/how you should buy stuff. Just don't ask me about programming :filez:

I'm a computer janitor now, because nobody liked a know-it-all that actually did.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

DJ Commie posted:

Anyone is more than welcome to ask me about radios, LMR (Commercial) or Ham. I know them both, the legalities (none of it is legal!)

What do pro race series use to be legal?

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

kimbo305 posted:

What do pro race series use to be legal?

To be legal in the eyes of the FCC, a business (race team) obtain a license to operate commerical band equipment, usually geographically locked at the location noted in the application, usually pretty easy to obtain with low power handhelds and derated mobile radios use in racing. Then you just use the radios at tracks* and watch for stepping on others. Real teams and sanctioning bodies coordinate frequency use and can move around inside their licensed frequencies to get everyone in there, or at least on different CTCSS/CDCSS tone or whatever the equivalent is for their specific DMR system.

The other way is to rent/lease radios and piggyback on the vendor's licences, which is the 'normal' way its done to circumvent the licensing hoops. Sanctioning bodies themselves do this, as well.


*Note that this can be operating outside the license's geographical limitations, unless you got some serious talent working on your applications and know what tracks you will be at...


edit: Its a gigantic shitshow and it really only works when everyone uses a single vendor who has an exclusive deal with the sanctioning body. Circle/oval track racing tends to have bans on two way radios, though sometimes has one way spotter communications with a Raceiver or similar receive only setup. LeMons/ChumpCar/WRL is a huge loving shitfest radio-wise and people run garbage radios all over bands that get the FCC or local emergency response really interested in the event. Its far far far worse now with VFO mode enabled "Commercial" garbage like the Baofeng UV5R and its ilk.

DJ Commie fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jun 5, 2017

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

Why yes, local radio DJ, it is pronounced "moto ecks."

nollij
Aug 30, 2006

Wait, wait, wait...

When did this happen?!?

jamal posted:

You can do that, most plans have unlimited minutes these days anyway. But you need decent cell reception all the way around the track. We had radios, it was really nice to be able to tell the driver about traffic or problems on the track etc, especially since the car could only do about 2 flat out laps per session.


I think the uprights could be an issue.

He is good with the arms as long as they are "commercially available." As for the uprights, Tony did acknowledge that they are not addressed in the rules but now that I ask, he will add something for next year on uprights... :-(

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Is CMC a bunch of mediocre drivers in lovely cars in every region, or just mid-Atlantic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbjahYa703U

I drive a BBW
Jun 2, 2008
Fun Shoe

FatCow posted:

Is CMC a bunch of mediocre drivers in lovely cars in every region, or just mid-Atlantic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbjahYa703U

As a CMC racer (not mid-Atlantic) I don't think it's any worse than any other class, although the amount of fuckups in that race is pretty impressive.

I have more problems with slow AI drivers.

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




FatCow posted:

Is CMC a bunch of mediocre drivers in lovely cars in every region, or just mid-Atlantic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbjahYa703U

Holy poo poo, what a mess.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
first rainy track day is tomorrow! i'm excited except for the drive to/from the track will be lovely

taking all the sound deadening and using delrin engine / poly trans mounts so that i can have a cool guy race shifter...

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Hope you're really confident that you torqued every single bolt on your car to spec.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
i had it in for an alignment and safety check this week

they paint marked everything too

OBAMNA PHONE fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 8, 2017

nollij
Aug 30, 2006

Wait, wait, wait...

When did this happen?!?

BraveUlysses posted:

i had it in for an alignment and safety check this week

they paint marked everything too

Good luck! Ridge isn't so bad in the wet compared to portland. I still haven't gotten the car back sorted (needs a re-tune on replacement injectors).

SpaceRangerJoe
Dec 24, 2003

The little hand says it's time to rock and roll.

BraveUlysses posted:

first rainy track day is tomorrow! i'm excited except for the drive to/from the track will be lovely

taking all the sound deadening and using delrin engine / poly trans mounts so that i can have a cool guy race shifter...



I've only driven in the rain once, and it was terrible. It was the only day I've ever run on full slicks (R7 takeoffs) too. To say my skill level was insufficient for the situation was an understatement. I skipped the last session so I could drive home when it wasn't actively raining. The drive home was far more terrifying than the track.

Don't forget to do solid solid diff and subframe mounts for maximum diff whine.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


BraveUlysses posted:

first rainy track day is tomorrow! i'm excited except for the drive to/from the track will be lovely

taking all the sound deadening and using delrin engine / poly trans mounts so that i can have a cool guy race shifter...



You're in an E30, E30's love the rain. If you haven't I'd pull/disconnect the rear sway bar, we picked up several seconds in the wet and the car got even more predictable in a slide.

Have fun

Dave Inc.
Nov 26, 2007
Let's have a drink!
Wet driving is where car control education happens!

I once spent an hour racing an '83 El Camino in the rain during a Lemons 24hr. It was the most fun I've ever had on track.

heffray
Sep 18, 2010

nollij posted:

Good luck! Ridge isn't so bad in the wet compared to portland. I still haven't gotten the car back sorted (needs a re-tune on replacement injectors).
I'm glad The Ridge is good in the rain, since I'm driving it with SCCA TNIA this afternoon! My first event in my new Chevy SS went well at Pacific Raceways on the 26th, and having a wet event should be useful in learning how the car behaves. So far, this is very different than driving a 1st gen CRX in 2003 or so.

PaintVagrant
Apr 13, 2007

~ the ultimate driving machine ~
Anyone going to gridlife Midwest at gingerman this weekend?

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh
I drove in the rain once. It was awful.

SpaceRangerJoe
Dec 24, 2003

The little hand says it's time to rock and roll.

Dave Inc. posted:

Wet driving is where car control education happens!

This is absolutely true. I was in way over my head, and was constantly worried about the drive home. Some more appropriate planning and prep on my part and I would have had a great learning experience.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


PaintVagrant posted:

Anyone going to gridlife Midwest at gingerman this weekend?

A couple of my friends will be there representing their shop (I think) and running one of their cars. They're the Dast Auto crew with a boosted black VW golf/gti

PaintVagrant
Apr 13, 2007

~ the ultimate driving machine ~

NitroSpazzz posted:

A couple of my friends will be there representing their shop (I think) and running one of their cars. They're the Dast Auto crew with a boosted black VW golf/gti

Cool., Ill be there tomorrow early afternoon through Sunday. Ill make sure to swing by and ask them awkward questions about their stairs.

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NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


PaintVagrant posted:

Cool., Ill be there tomorrow early afternoon through Sunday. Ill make sure to swing by and ask them awkward questions about their stairs.

They aren't on SA so that'll really mess with them. They're the ones that are doing fab work on my track build. Tell them Blake said hi.

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