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Deteriorata posted:lol that you take Consumer Reports seriously. loving lol at recommending a Fiat 500L for any number of reasons; here's a thought: how does the depreciation match up between the Fiat and Toyota and Honda? Here's a hint: one of them averages -34% in the first year.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:41
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Actuarial Fables posted:Hi friends. This is all part of my Dad's goal to have his children know how to drive a manual. The first time he tried to teach us (years ago), it was in a Toyota FJ Cruiser and it did not go well, so now we're looking for a car not quite as intimidating now that the lease on our Infinity 50q h ends in a month. I would recommend checking out both the Civic SI and Focus ST. These would both be sportier options though. If you decide to check out an Accord, I would also recommend checking out a Mazda 6.
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Jun 11, 2017 19:01
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Deteriorata posted:lol that you take Consumer Reports seriously. Chrysler is poo poo Fiat is poo poo Why are you wasting time defending these terrible automakers?
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Jun 11, 2017 19:04
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Phone posted:Chrysler is poo poo Perhaps because they're not terrible and you're soapboxing rather than giving pragmatic advice?
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Jun 11, 2017 19:14
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prom candy posted:You can get an accord with a stick at I think almost every trim level. That might just be Canada though. Can't speak for it hitting those other needs though. I went through this last year, I had to drive halfway across the state to find a dealer that actually had an Accord stick in stock.
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Jun 11, 2017 19:15
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I don't think edmunds is actually tracking maintenance and repair data though. Their thingy about ownership costs says they calculate it based on the maintenance schedule, unscheduled maintenance that they don't explain how they track, and the cost of zero deductible extended warranties. That doesn't seem to me like some incredible, way better than consumer reports method of examining reliability. What do you like about it over CR so much? edit: like, if you hate consumer reports, what about truedelta? https://www.truedelta.com/Fiat-500L-vs-Honda-Civic-reliability-comparison,1137-109 powderific fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 20:42
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What's up A/T? For the past seven years I've been driving around a 1999 Honda Accord V6. Recently, some asshat rear ended me on the highway and ended the poor Accords life; poor car only had 163k on the ODO. Now it's time to buy a new car, I've mainly been looking at SUVs and CUV's as a replacement. I'm a pretty active person, so having the extra space for gear is nice. Now here's my main concern; I'd like to be able to safely haul a dirtbike on the back using a hitch rack or something similar. Since weight estimates are Important I'm guesstimating 230lbs dirt bike + 100 lbs rack weight = 330lbs +- 30lbs on the rear of the car. I realize a receiver carrier isn't the best way to do this, and I should just buy a trailer. But, I'm living in an apartment so trailer storage space is nonexistent. I'd like to buy a truck, but my commute to work is pretty much stop and go the entire way $50-70 dollar fill-ups every week doesn't sound like much fun right now. So far I think I've narrowed my search down to the following models: 2014-2016 Jeep Cherokee TrailHawk, 2015-2016 Mazda CX5 GT, 2013-2016 Ford Edge, and 2013-2016 Subaru Outback. This is by no means an exhaustive list either, so I'm open to suggestions. I'd like to keep the car relatively new though, in hopes of having some kind of warranty. I'm mechanically inclined and did, all the work on the Accord while I owned it. Repairs don't scare me, but after driving around an 18 year old vehicle for the past seven years I'd like my only maintenance to be routine oil changes, especially while I'm still paying the thing off. My go to choice is the 2016 Mazda CX-5 GT. They've received glowing reviews, and have a great interior. I have my doubts that a CX-5 could safely handle a dirt bike on the back, even with a class three hitch on the back (also 2,000lbs tow rating for the cx-5). For that reason I've been looking at Jeep Cherokee Trailhawks. But, Jeep / Chrysler reliability is always questionable, and without the factory tow package the tow rating is still 2,000 lbs (vs 4,500 with tow package). Alright, I'm done rambling. A/T, what do? Proposed Budget: $25,000, would prefer 20 to 23k though. (looking to put 8-10k down and pay off quickly) New or Used: Used, 2013-2017 model years preferably. Body Style: SUV / CUV, but open to suggestions How will you be using the car?: Daily Driver, Hauling paintball gear, camping equipment, mountain bikes.. ect. What aspects are most important to you? Safety, able to fit tall people (6' 2"+), "fun". Other: I'd like leather, or cloth / leather interior but it's not a must.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:12
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Deteriorata posted:Perhaps because they're not terrible and you're soapboxing rather than giving pragmatic advice? Yeah, clearly good cars like the Fiat 500L just depreciate like they're unredeemable pieces of poo poo for no reason at all.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:25
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Re: hitch carrier, generally you want the tongue weight of a trailer to be 10-15% of the trailer weight. So at 330lb of tongue weight, I'd want something with at least a 3000-3500lb weight rating. Alternatively, Honda Ridgeline?
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Jun 11, 2017 22:09
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Deteriorata posted:Perhaps because they're not terrible and you're soapboxing rather than giving pragmatic advice? Here's pragmatic advice: there's no reason to buy a Chrysler or Fiat product in the United States.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:12
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Deteriorata posted:lol that you take Consumer Reports seriously. Consumer reports is the only even remotely reliable judge of reliability. CR may review based on their target market, which is people who want boring appliances, but the thing they absolutely care about is reliability. Seriously, you are citing edmunds loving TCO costs to say something is reliable. Playing games with maintenance TCOis why BMWs get 15k mi oil changes that destroy the engine (after warranty) and why VW get "lifetime" everything fluid (which again causes problems). It is a bullshit metric that penalizes manufacturers who give realistic maintenance intervals. 5yr TCO for maintenance and repiar is going to be all maintenance because the car is under warranty for the vast majority of the time. FCA is a garbage company that makes garbage cars (Hemi Challengers excluded, but I still wouldn't want to own one in 10 years) that are notoriously unreliable. Ask literally any mechanic not employed by FCA. Same (to a somewhat lesser degree) with Mini. nm fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 22:41
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nm posted:Consumer reports is the only even remotely reliable judge of reliability. CR may review based on their target market, which is people who want boring appliances, but the thing they absolutely care about is reliability. Don't like Edmunds? Cite somebody else. They all give similar results. CR's "much better than average" cars will cost an average of $50 per month for maintenance and repairs. "Much worse than average" cars cost about $60 per month. It's an almost meaningless distinction. Making any sort of judgment about the quality of the cars based on it is equally meaningless.
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Jun 11, 2017 23:54
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Deteriorata posted:Don't like Edmunds? Cite somebody else. They all give similar results. I did, I cited consumer reports, the only one that isn't basically an automaker funded marketing group. Also, we're not talking about costs. With a new, under warranty car, it doesn't matter if the part that failed and caused you to e stranded on the side of the road. You still are late, are out of a car, and have to get the drat thing towed. CR is the only group that actually takes dealer trips and seriousness into account rather than just "did poo poo break" (JD Power) and "how much did it cost" (edmunds). FCA is a burning tire fire. Just because you're fully engulfed doesn't mean you need to encourage others to jump right in. (Also, IIRC, you own a fiat miata made in Hiroshima with mostly mazda parts so. . .)
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Jun 12, 2017 00:00
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nm posted:I did, I cited consumer reports, the only one that isn't basically an automaker funded marketing group. Also, we're not talking about costs. With a new, under warranty car, it doesn't matter if the part that failed and caused you to e stranded on the side of the road. You still are late, are out of a car, and have to get the drat thing towed. So you don't have any actual numbers, just CR's word for it. Seems pretty methodologically sound to me. I've already commented several times about the problems with CR's ratings so I won't do it again. Suffice it to say that relying on their opinion is a really bad idea.
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Jun 12, 2017 00:31
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Deteriorata posted:So you don't have any actual numbers, just CR's word for it. Seems pretty methodologically sound to me. Here is another, though flawed, source on Fiat. Let's be clear, almost 3 times as many problems as the top companies. Twice as many problems as the average. they make Land Rover look reliable. http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-vehicle-dependability-study (JD Power is flawed as gently caress, but you asked for another source. CR is actually reasonably reliable -- though no perfect, but they hurt your feelings so I'm posting this.) You are literally resting on the fact that the Fiat won't cost more during the period it is under warranty. Yeah, that's nice. You know what is nicer? Having a car that doesn't break 3 times as often as your buddy's Lexus. Seriously, you are the only person I have ever known who doesn't work for Fiat who has claimed they are anything other than a dumpster fire of reliability. Including several auto mechanics and all of AI. You really lucked out buying a Mazda and don't even know it. nm fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 01:00
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nm posted:You haven't even come up with a source that shows Fiat to be reliable. This thread should be grounded in facts and reality, not anecdotes and internet memes. The facts do not support your assertions. This thread is also not about convincing people to buy your favorite car. It's about helping them find the right car to fit their needs. If that car is a Prius, a Ford, or a FIAT, I don't really care. Categorically rejecting anything made by FCA regardless of the situation means you are giving biased (and inferior) advice.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:30
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Deteriorata posted:This thread should be grounded in facts and reality, not anecdotes and internet memes. The facts do not support your assertions. So, CR and JD power are anecdotes and internet memes, but Edmunds TCO which meansures something completely different is a totally perfect reliability metric. Got it. Are you a Michael Scott alt?
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Jun 12, 2017 01:40
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I own a FCA product and I wouldn't recommend one to someone who isn't similarly insane.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:49
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nm posted:So, CR and JD power are anecdotes and internet memes, but Edmunds TCO which meansures something completely different is a totally perfect reliability metric. Got it. "Buy an ex-rental DCT Fiat - they're fantastic value but just, like, not one in a darker colour." Some quality cherry picking and blinkered ignorance. Still can't believe *anyone* would ever contemplate buying a shitbox car with depreciation like that.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:I own a FCA product and I wouldn't recommend one to someone who isn't similarly insane. UH SORRY THIS IS A FACTS ONLY ZONE, NO FORMER AI MODZ ALLOWED
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Jun 12, 2017 02:13
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Phone posted:UH SORRY THIS IS A FACTS ONLY ZONE, NO FORMER AI MODZ ALLOWED Bro, that's the second anecdote about Chrysler sucking: therefor, data! 
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Jun 12, 2017 03:23
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Boys who love boys
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:I went through this last year, I had to drive halfway across the state to find a dealer that actually had an Accord stick in stock. Worth it though?
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Jun 12, 2017 03:39
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prom candy posted:Worth it though? So far I love it. The Sport 6MT is 90% boring momcar, 10% brum-brum excitement. But ask me again in 10 years.
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Jun 12, 2017 05:11
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morothar posted:We'll be moving to the US (NJ) from the EU come July and are thinking about buying a pickup truck. what are you planning to do with your truck, because the Raptor is a really good (for stock OEM) package for high speed offroad work but not really useful at all for say, driving to work or picking up plywood from home depot.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:34
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Thanks for the help, everyone! We'll check out the suggestions and figure out which ones we (he) wants to test drive.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:55
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Diametunim posted:What's up A/T? For the past seven years I've been driving around a 1999 Honda Accord V6. Recently, some asshat rear ended me on the highway and ended the poor Accords life; poor car only had 163k on the ODO. Now it's time to buy a new car, I've mainly been looking at SUVs and CUV's as a replacement. I'm a pretty active person, so having the extra space for gear is nice. Now here's my main concern; I'd like to be able to safely haul a dirtbike on the back using a hitch rack or something similar. Since weight estimates are Important I'm guesstimating 230lbs dirt bike + 100 lbs rack weight = 330lbs +- 30lbs on the rear of the car. I realize a receiver carrier isn't the best way to do this, and I should just buy a trailer. But, I'm living in an apartment so trailer storage space is nonexistent. IOwnCalculus posted:Re: hitch carrier, generally you want the tongue weight of a trailer to be 10-15% of the trailer weight. So at 330lb of tongue weight, I'd want something with at least a 3000-3500lb weight rating. My parents used to own a 2007 Honda Ridgeline, I used to drive that thing all the time when I still lived at home. It's a decent truck, but there aren't many decently optioned Ridgelines around me for $25k. I really don't want to own a base model truck either. After reading about the wonderful transmission issues that plague the 2014 jeep Cherokees I think I'm going to pass on the Jeep. Not to mention the other slew of forum posts that essentially read "I wouldn't drive this car without a warranty" doesn't leave me with a warm and comfortable feeling. I think I'm just going to settle and buy a 2016 CX-5 GT (It's not really settling since.. they're kickass crossovers). I'll worry about weather or not I can put a hitch carrier for a dirtbike later down the road when there's actually a bike in my garage. It'll probably tax the suspension but my closest track is 20 minutes from me. I've seen similarly rated vehicles getting away with the setup I'm thinking about it, so I may as well just bite the bullet and go for it. On the other hand... there's always the subaru outback which has a slightly higher tow rating of 2,700lbs. God I hate making decisions.
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Jun 12, 2017 15:55
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:I went through this last year, I had to drive halfway across the state to find a dealer that actually had an Accord stick in stock. I just bought a V-6 coupe with a stick today, there wasn't a single one at any dealership in the entire SF Bay Area, had to go to Santa Rosa, a hundred-mile drive. Worth it though 
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Jun 13, 2017 04:41
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JnnyThndrs posted:I just bought a V-6 coupe with a stick today, there wasn't a single one at any dealership in the entire SF Bay Area, had to go to Santa Rosa, a hundred-mile drive. People commute from santa rosa to sf daily.
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Jun 13, 2017 05:01
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People commute all sorts of horrific drives, I just thought it odd that with over 1400* new Accords sitting on dealer lots within the Bay Area proper, none of them had two doors, three pedals and six cylinders. *according(ha!) to CarGurus.com
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Jun 13, 2017 10:22
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If you are a used car dealer are you buying that car at auction?
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Jun 13, 2017 13:16
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I had a manual Taurus SHO back around 1994. Selling that thing was a loving pain because no one wants a family car with a manual. Even if it was an awesome beast like the SHO.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:07
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Yeah I'm not surprised at all that a soccer mom car in an area with poo poo traffic and lots of hills isn't commonly found in stick.
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Jun 13, 2017 19:34
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It's been a while since I've done this so I'm not sure where to best find this info. Just got an offer on a 2017 mazda cx5 touring with the preferred package for 28300 including destination. Sticker was 28900. Do I have any more room to move on this or is this the best I'm gonna get?
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Jun 15, 2017 00:30
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A Proper Uppercut posted:It's been a while since I've done this so I'm not sure where to best find this info. Go to edmunds.com and/or kbb.com and do an appraisal.
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Jun 15, 2017 00:32
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Thermopyle posted:Go to edmunds.com and/or kbb.com and do an appraisal. I can't seem to figure out where to go to actually say I want this trim with this package. I am dumb. Edit: never mind I see it now. Looks like 28300 is a good number, the are making a couple grand off my trade in. A Proper Uppercut fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 00:35
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After 8 years, and having it get me through college, I think I'm ready to retire my 09 Nissan Versa hatch. Proposed Budget: Under 30k New or Used: Either, depending on what I can get for my money. Planning on putting around 8k-10k down. Body Style: Hatchback. How will you be using the car?: I'm a real estate agent and run my own marketing business so I'm constantly driving around the state. Getting tired of having anxiety about getting on an interstate because I feel like I'm driving a go-kart with no loving pick up. What aspects are most important to you? I need something reliable and it's almost impossible to tell whether vague myths about X brand giving people headaches. I figure as long as you're taking car of it, getting regular oil changes etc, most cars will last a long time without issue. I need something enjoyable to drive. Something around 180-200hp since what I have now is like 120. I dread getting into my car now because it's just not fun to be in. So far I've been looking at the Mazda 3 GT, the GTI, and the Focus. Something at least from 2015 if I were to go used probably under 25k miles. I think I need to just go out and test drive different models and see what I like but I'm concerned about what potential issues I'd run into with each brand as far as reliability is concerned. I've read reviews/forums for each of these and everything seems to have their quirks so I'm less concerned about VW electronic failures or whatever now than I was a few weeks ago. I've never really been into cars because I always rode bikes so learning about them now is like drinking from a fire house. I live in Richmond VA and it sounds like NOVA is the place to buy a GTI because it's so saturated with VW dealers and prices are considerably lower than they are elsewhere, so I do have that option going for me. My wife has a Mazda CX 5 and loves it. It's nice to drive coming from my Versa, but I do not like the UI on the infotainment system. Some of the features in it are alright but it's such a bitch to navigate at times. Bluetooth calling without having to pick up the phone is pretty cool but I think a lot of cars have that now. I don't really like how the Mazda 3 hatch looks but I'm trying not to let that deter me from a car that drives well. All the reviews I've read say that's one of it's biggest draws so ehhh. Speaking of how cars look the civic hatch was an option until I saw one in person. I couldn't pull up to show a home without looking like I'm trying to be 18 again. Anyway that's about all I got. I'm lurking the Hatch thread in AI to get a feel for what people are saying there. On Terra Firma fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 15:49
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I did a spreadsheet. Per the discussion with nm earlier, he complained that the data I was showing was skewed by free warranty work. That was a valid point, so I went back and looked at Edmund's TCO estimates for a bunch of 2013 cars to get a better estimate of actual repair and maintenance costs. I dug up a bunch of other cheap small cars to compare while I was at it. I stuck to base model hatchbacks with manual transmissions as much as possible just for consistency. Edmunds gets their repair and maintenance cost estimates from the cost of extended warranties for these cars (subtracting out the profits and padding). They don't have a direct database on repair costs, but the warranty providers do and they have to be pretty good at estimating costs to avoid losing money on their products. Edmunds' TCO estimator page There's nothing magical about Edmunds, it's just one I'm familiar with. Google tells me there's dozens of others around if anyone wants to try one to compare. Ranked from lowest cost to highest: pre:Year Brand Model 5-Yr Maint 5-Yr Repair Total Cost per mo. 2013 Mazda 2 $4,310.00 $2,052.00 $6,362.00 $106.03 2013 Nissan Juke $4,279.00 $2,355.00 $6,634.00 $110.57 2013 Scion iQ $4,710.00 $1,988.00 $6,698.00 $111.63 2013 Nissan Versa $4,721.00 $1,988.00 $6,709.00 $111.82 2013 Hyundai Accent $4,822.00 $1,894.00 $6,716.00 $111.93 2013 Ford Fiesta $4,954.00 $1,844.00 $6,798.00 $113.30 2013 Toyota Prius $4,940.00 $1,988.00 $6,928.00 $115.47 2013 Chevrolet Sonic $4,854.00 $2,172.00 $7,026.00 $117.10 2013 Toyota Corolla $5,159.00 $1,988.00 $7,147.00 $119.12 2013 Mazda 3 $5,234.00 $2,272.00 $7,506.00 $125.10 2013 Chrysler 200 $5,277.00 $2,314.00 $7,591.00 $126.52 2013 Honda Civic $5,802.00 $1,988.00 $7,790.00 $129.83 2013 Volkswagen Golf $5,296.00 $2,526.00 $7,822.00 $130.37 2013 Honda Fit $5,842.00 $1,988.00 $7,830.00 $130.50 2013 Chevrolet Cruze $5,584.00 $2,423.00 $8,007.00 $133.45 2013 Toyota Yaris $6,059.00 $1,988.00 $8,047.00 $134.12 2013 Kia Rio $6,261.00 $1,894.00 $8,155.00 $135.92 2013 Suzuki SX4 $6,212.00 $2,025.00 $8,237.00 $137.28 2013 Subaru Impreza $6,332.00 $2,429.00 $8,761.00 $146.02 2013 Smart ForTwo $5,967.00 $3,022.00 $8,989.00 $149.82 2013 FIAT 500 $6,186.00 $2,815.00 $9,001.00 $150.02 2013 Mini Coupe $7,910.00 $3,022.00 $10,932.00 $182.20 I'll be glad to update it with other cars if anyone cares. Edit: completely forgot about Nissan, so I added them in. Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 16:02
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I'm perfectly happy recommending mazda 2s for everyone.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:27
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nm posted:I'm perfectly happy recommending mazda 2s for everyone. It has even more anemic horsepower than the Versa he's coming off of. e: actually they're about the same, but still.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:45
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IRQ posted:It has even more anemic horsepower than the Versa he's coming off of. It probably weighs dramatically less. There's a reason why the 100hp/98 ft-lb 2 out did or equaled the same year fiesta (which was on the same platform) in acceleration which had like 20 more hp. Its because mazda took everything out of it. Also, they are fun as gently caress to drive. *manual only. The 4 speed auto is a dog.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:53
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