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Ein cooler Typ posted:I hate the loving word "protagonist". it's like everyone learned what it meant because of the Hunger Games reviewsand now people won't stop using it whenever it is slightly usable. lmao what?
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Jun 16, 2017 05:39
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I mean there aren't many one-hour chunks of TV that I'd put above Episode 1 of BB. And nothing that follows from it shows any sign of the story flagging. It starts in a cloud of dust and just keeps sprinting.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:40
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im pretty sure the BB thread was arguing about walt being a protagonist before the hunger games was even written
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Jun 16, 2017 05:41
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Ein cooler Typ posted:I hate the loving word "protagonist". it's like everyone learned what it meant because of the Hunger Games reviewsand now people won't stop using it whenever it is slightly usable. I’ve been using protagonist since before it was cool. Like, since I was ten.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:46
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Data Graham posted:I mean there aren't many one-hour chunks of TV that I'd put above Episode 1 of BB. It has the most memorable opening I can think of. Pants flying in the air cutting straight to a panic-induced white knuckled action sequence and immediately gets you back around to that point. It's just great. If Saul has a weak point, it's probably Season 2 not being quite as energetic and having some slower episodes, but it was still a knock-out. Season 3 has been the best season of BCS though, that I can say without reservation, it's just been kicking SO much rear end.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:49
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I think season 1 edges out as the best for me because of how strong "You're not a real lawyer" was.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:52
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Ein cooler Typ posted:I hate the loving word "protagonist". it's like everyone learned what it meant because of the Hunger Games reviewsand now people won't stop using it whenever it is slightly usable. Jimmy am good guy. Chuck am bad. Oog og.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:00
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the synonym of protagonist is not hero, unless contextually specified. The antonym of protagonist is antagonist, i.e., whoever opposes the protagonist. So for example, Gus or Hank or Mike might be considered antagonists in Breaking Bad. But in Better Call Saul, Mike & Gus are more appropriately protagonists.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:01
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I guess I was lucky I learned the term 'protagonist' from my teacher when I was studying Macbeth because that made it really clear that it doesn't mean hero. The antagonist can be the hero of a story e.g. in the Michael Douglas movie Falling Down.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:20
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Ein cooler Typ posted:I hate the loving word "protagonist". it's like everyone learned what it meant because of the Hunger Games reviewsand now people won't stop using it whenever it is slightly usable. Classic Dunning-Kruger but I see the whole thing as a little bit of a Chekhov's gun. I guess if that's the hill you choose to die on, more power to you. The situation reminds me of the death of the author.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:23
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I'm surprised to hear the writers say Saul in BB was dead inside. I never got that vibe.
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Jun 16, 2017 07:36
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I'm surprised to hear the writers say Saul in BB was dead inside. I never got that vibe. I guess the kindhearted Jimmy part of him is, but yeah, Saul generally seems like he's having a blast. That's why Jimmy becomes Saul: It's more fun.
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Jun 16, 2017 07:56
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I'm surprised to hear the writers say Saul in BB was dead inside. I never got that vibe. Yeah, me neither.
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Jun 16, 2017 08:11
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Cnut the Great posted:I guess the kindhearted Jimmy part of him is, but yeah, Saul generally seems like he's having a blast. That's why Jimmy becomes Saul: It's more fun. That's the impression I got from the Omaha scenes too, that the Saul days were what Jimmy looked back on.
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Jun 16, 2017 08:21
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I wouldn't say be seems dead inside in BB when viewed in isolation, but with the context of BCS I can certainly see it.
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Jun 16, 2017 08:41
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Baron Corbyn posted:I guess I was lucky I learned the term 'protagonist' from my teacher when I was studying Macbeth because that made it really clear that it doesn't mean hero. Michael Douglas is the protagonist in that film
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Jun 16, 2017 09:14
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Skyler was the antagonist in Breaking Bad, or "big bad" if you will. The killer of Walt's dreams. The protagonist, as we can all agree, was the guy who ran the breakers yard. Or maybe Ted.
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Jun 16, 2017 09:35
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Baron Corbyn posted:I guess I was lucky I learned the term 'protagonist' from my teacher when I was studying Macbeth because that made it really clear that it doesn't mean hero. Uh this. You learn the terms protagonist and antagonist in grade 6 when you first start reading books, and protagonist is not a synonym for hero.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:20
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oliwan posted:Uh this. You learn the terms protagonist and antagonist in grade 6 when you first start reading books, and protagonist is not a synonym for hero. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/protagonist SYNONYMS chief character, central character, leading character, main character, principal character, central participant, chief participant, leading participant, main participant, principal participant, principal, hero, heroine, leading lady, leading man, title role, lead, star, player, key player, leading player, figure, leading figure, leading light http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/protagonist Synonyms: advocate, central character, champion, combatant, exemplar, exponent, hero, idol, lead, lead character, leader, mainstay, prime mover, principal, standard-bearer, warrior boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 10:25
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TBeats posted:https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/protagonist lol you I'm sorry but you are severely retarded
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Jun 16, 2017 10:31
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oliwan posted:lol you I'm sorry but you are severely retarded "its not!" *shows sources that show it is* "YOU ARE RETARDED!!!!" Lol okay
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Jun 16, 2017 10:32
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Protip: not everything listed in the thesaurus can be substituted for the word in the heading. You’re supposed to use a thesaurus in concert with a dictionary and common sense to make sure a candidate is suitable in context. Like, my thesaurus lists “shrub” under the entry for “tree”, but people are going to get confused if you call 20 m birch a shrub.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:34
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Platystemon posted:Protip: not everything listed in the thesaurus can be substituted for the word in the heading. True, but people correct people's use of protagonist so obviously they aren't getting confused. Using "tree" in place for "shrub" can make sense contextually just like using "protagonist" for "hero" can make sense contextually. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 10:35
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TBeats posted:True, but people correct people's use of protagonist so obviously they aren't getting confused. What are you even trying so say?
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Jun 16, 2017 10:38
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oliwan posted:What are you even trying so say? That this is a dumb derail and people are going to continue using protagonist to mean hero. Because just like using shrub/tree, contextually it can make sense, otherwise people would be confused instead of immediately trying to correct it.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:40
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ITT we get a sneak preview of the post-finale derail.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:41
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TBeats posted:True, but people correct people's use of protagonist so obviously they aren't getting confused. Yes, it can make sense contextually, that's the whole point. This means that the words sometimes mean the same, depending on the context, but not always. So, they are not full synonyms.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:41
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oliwan posted:Yes, it can make sense contextually, that's the whole point. This means that the words sometimes mean the same, depending on the context, but not always. So, they are not full synonyms. And contextually it has made sense every time it has been used in this thread. If it didn't, you wouldn't know to correct it. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 10:42
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It's best not to argue with oliwan. S/he shat up the Leftovers thread by calling the show poo poo while using the "I have a Masters in Literature so my opinions and examination of the material is more valid than your interpretation" card.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:48
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Ok, but synonyms are real, and you can use synonyms to replace words, as long as you can derive the original meaning given the context. Tbeats is right in this context, even if you disagree with his opinions based on an entirely unrelated TV/IV thread.
Turtlicious fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 11:10
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Turtlicious posted:Ok, but synonyms are real, and you can use synonyms to replace words, as long as you can derive the original meaning given the context. Oliwan is right in this context, even if you disagree with his opinions based on an entirely unrelated TV/IV thread. If you couldn't derive the original meaning then you wouldn't tell people specifically to use hero instead of protagonist. The post that led to this derail said Saul goes "from protagonist to villain." That paints the original meaning with a fairly vivid brush.
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Jun 16, 2017 11:14
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It's unrealistic that someone would be bleeding after crashing their car into a rock.
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Jun 16, 2017 11:17
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TBeats posted:https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/protagonist But it's not interchangeable in both directions. Hero is subset to Protagonist, like 'square' is to 'quadrilateral.' Example: Big Trouble in Little China Kurt Russel is the protagonist but he isn't the hero. He's the oafish side-kick. The wise old master's young protege is the hero.
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Jun 16, 2017 11:34
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This whole thing just gets so messy when you're talking about a show whose whole purpose and design is to play around with the concepts of anti-hero and anti-villain and multiple POV characters and so on. How about "the guy you root for"? Is there no unambiguous term for that?
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Jun 16, 2017 12:37
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A couple of posters who misused a word doubling down on it until they hit absurdity/villainy is thematically appropriate for this series about a couple of protagonists (who aren't heroes) making immoral choices doubling down on them.
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Jun 16, 2017 12:54
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Data Graham posted:How about "the guy you root for"? Is there no unambiguous term for that? Yeah, "Ernesto."
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Jun 16, 2017 12:54
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Cnut the Great posted:Yeah, "Ernesto." Ding. Ding. DING DING DING DING
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Jun 16, 2017 12:58
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I'm surprised to hear the writers say Saul in BB was dead inside. I never got that vibe. Not even from a video like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3DY1_zijgA He's funny but really doesn't care but the victims of his clients. He makes a living out of keeping drunk drivers, drug dealers, and murderers out on the street. He cares only about himself. He's fine with having Jesse and Hank be murdered so he won't have to go to jail.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:37
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Vanderdeath posted:It's best not to argue with oliwan. S/he shat up the Leftovers thread by calling the show poo poo while using the "I have a Masters in Literature so my opinions and examination of the material is more valid than your interpretation" card. I may not have agreed with Oliwan in the leftovers thread (  ) but I'm on his/her side here.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:39
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Work Friend Keven posted:It's unrealistic that someone would be bleeding after crashing their car into a rock. And another thing, there are too many shoe sizes in this world to luck out and pull the right size out of a dozen pairs!
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Jun 16, 2017 13:50
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