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There is no way you can say your posting today helps the town. You spent the first half of it shitposting like a child. You spent the second half making a case that didn't make sense and... that's it. Please make a conscious effort to be better at this game because right now you're hurting the town and you don't seem to know or care.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:10
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| # ? Apr 18, 2024 10:49 |
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EccoRaven posted:what's a flip flapper? I hear that and it makes sense, but is the pressure to perform here so heavy that you'll make a call like this? Like, I had half of my huge post done on the way into therapy, wrote a little bit more, kept up with the thread, updated... but I'm me. You were getting pizza with bob. Not that I wanna criticize you for Effort which is the whole reason I'm excited to play with you, but I dunno... this seems like an IRL > game situation to me? Zero offense intended. I know Quid can be... Quid. I'm just having a little fun with the name; flip flappers is an anime and we're doing flipless mafia and idk nobody liked my topless joke and I'm just going for smiles per usual. Okay everybody, that's probably it from me tonight. I'm exhausted. Right before deadline I'll be heading into a d&d game, so I'd appreciate if ya'll could not suddenly change your minds in the last five minutes (tho I will do my best) areyoucontagious posted:Also Pera, I'm a Taurus, I like long walks on the beach with my wife (sorry ladies, I'm taken) and you could best describe my posting style as "desperately trying to be one of the cool kids" areyoucontagious posted:Also Pera, I'm a Taurus, I like long walks %%vote areyoucontagious. And you were doing so well.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:31
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here's a case on quidnose. 1) at the start of the day I make a jokevote on Quidnose. Quid has bad feelings about pera's treatment of my vote, but he blames me for it rather than pera. He blurred the line of causation to position himself against me, which was weird. 2) Quid manufactured problems with my posting twice. The first is here; Quid seems to misunderstand a point I made against PMush by assuming words PMush neither said nor implied. He did it again here where he claimed his "on day 2 we can't vote right away!" comment was a helpful post to make 24 hours into day 1 and I was being hypocritical for deriding it. Both of them are problematic because it shows Quidnose isn't trying to build logically sound cases against me; he feels the need to manufacture problems in my posts and use those problems to cast suspicion on me. This is what scum have to do; scum can't post "sincere" cases, any case a scum player makes is going to necessarily be artificial. A good scum case can hide it, but a bad scum case can't. 3) He's had weird posts elsewhere, like claiming pera is "definitely town" an hour into the game here. Nothing in his history stands out to me as "this is a post a townie would have made." 4) He used the allears emote, which is the second scummiest emote behind rolleyes. (This is semi-sincere, #1 and 2 are obviously the meat.) I dunno I feel okay about it! It's where my vote is right now and I'm comfortable keeping it there for the time being.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:39
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peramene posted:I hear that and it makes sense, but is the pressure to perform here so heavy that you'll make a call like this? Like, I had half of my huge post done on the way into therapy, wrote a little bit more, kept up with the thread, updated... but I'm me. You were getting pizza with bob. Not that I wanna criticize you for Effort which is the whole reason I'm excited to play with you, but I dunno... this seems like an IRL > game situation to me? Zero offense intended. I know Quid can be... Quid. I'm pretty good at quickposting on a phone. I had nothing else to do today so I spent this morning getting into the weeds of the game, and it's hard to pull me away from it, especially when people are buzzing at me with cases. We went home and watched the Bachelorette and I kept checking the thread during breaks, it's annoying. If I could go back in time today I would probably have posted less if only because it's suffocated a bit of the conversation.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:43
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I have returned from an eventful afternoon as well, now to crack the case wide open!!
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Jun 21, 2017 04:47
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I can't choose what my phone capitalizes or doesn't! It's a bad phone!
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Jun 21, 2017 04:47
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I am going to work backwards from Ecco's case on me, because, again, I am a self-centered person.EccoRaven posted:here's a case on quidnose. This isn't what I did at all? My first vote on you was primarily a joke vote, but it does point at a real feel I had on you: that your joke vote on me was a pretty poor one, and way too easy. I also wanted to see what you were going to do with it from that point, how you were going to respond to me once I called you out for a jokephase vote, and also where you would then go from there with it once again once the above two things had gone down: Quidthulhu posted:ecco "joke" very fake, ##vote ecco But then, Sara started to take you seriously for what was clearly a joke vote and commentary on my not being around when I am scum. That's a reasonable meta-read, but when the game was, what, 4 hours old at that point, it was ridiculous for Sara to be taking you with your point there as earnest. Yes, I easily could have jumped on Sara for that, and in retrospect discussing it, maybe I should take a harder look at if she's continued that sort of "following people around" pattern (I don't believe she has where I sit here now), but the issues for me were: 1. you were coming in as self-appointed thread leader & savior 2. people (sara) were accepting you in that role & taking what you said with earnest examination 3. if you were scum, which i had a gut worry you were, that was dangerous and needed to be called out. Which, I did: Quidthulhu posted:i'm torn because i don't believe ecco is actually going down this path (reads as major tongue in cheek meta joking about who she is to me) but sara is believing her hook-line-and-sinker and that is dangerous so it makes me wonder if maybe this is an EccoGambit I even directly asked you to comment on it being a gambit or not (which I inherently meant as 'scum ploy,' and probably should have worded thus.) So I don't know here if you're misrepresenting me purposefully or if you genuinely thought I did what you said. I can tell you from my perspective, it wasn't, although I can kinda see why you felt that way now that I've reviewed and broken it down. My response to the next point is getting long, so, post break!
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Jun 21, 2017 05:01
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quote:2) Quid manufactured problems with my posting twice. The first is here; Quid seems to misunderstand a point I made against PMush by assuming words PMush neither said nor implied. He did it again here where he claimed his "on day 2 we can't vote right away!" comment was a helpful post to make 24 hours into day 1 and I was being hypocritical for deriding it. You admit the first one is based on a misunderstanding, so that automatically contradicts your "look at him faking cases" point - I could be scum faking a case who got confused or town trying to engage with you who got confused & it wouldn't have changed the fact that I got confused. But more importantly, I don't even understand how our interaction here (which weirdly you don't link to your response, just my response to you) even connects to your point above about me faking content. Here is the entire exchange in context, with my translation as I see it: PMush Perfect posted:I hate to use the big fake-impressive words but they both strike me as a little performative? Like they want to be seen saying the words they're saying, rather than for their meaning. PMush basically says "just putting down words for the sake of putting down words" - e.g., "faking content." Ecco jumps on the semantic points of this with her argument: EccoRaven posted:this case is nonsense, it lacks sense. The implication is that PMush doesn't think what I'm posting is bad or wrong (in fact the implication is that they are good and right!), but that I am only posting them to appear like I'm posting good and right things, not because I really mean it. I mean as far as I can tell here Ecco you're just harping on PMush for not saying "She's faking content" and rather saying "she is using fancy words to look better than everyone" or...something. I'm not even sure how you jumped to this conclusion, because to get to where you are ("she is agreeing with what I am saying without saying that and it is therefore ridiculous of her to say 'but it's fake' because if she thought it was fake she would not have agreed with it!") I have to jump through so many logical "well maybe she meant this" hoops a few times for it to even work. Frankly you are wicked smart and this seems like an incredibly dumb point to make & furthermore to doubledown on. (Also notice Ecco herself brings up "guys be careful of the vote count!" here while harping on anyone for MENTIONING votecounts ever. CURIOUS.) So, I jump in & say "I actually think PMush just meant 'she's faking content'": Quidthulhu posted:I think she means more "ecco is posting in a manner that seems like she's putting in a ton of effort but is in fact saying nothing?" Where do you get "I agree with Ecco's points but know she is FAKING THEM" from her statement? Because, again, I generally don't see that as being in there. And your reply, which again, you decided to leave out of your analysis above: quote:because if pmush actually had something substantive to say about my posting itself she would have said so. the case was, remember, "ecco just wants to be seen saying the words they're saying rather than for their meaning." (that's literally the entire case.) The implication isn't "ecco said bad things," since if I did that would be a much better case. The implication is in fact "what ecco is saying is good, but they're only saying it to look like they're being helpful." This is a total misreading of PMush's statement, and completely ignores my question. I said: "Where do you get 'I agree with Ecco's points but know she is FAKING THEM' from her statement?" and you basically said "When she said 'I agree with Ecco's points but know she is FAKING THEM'" as a response... quote:3) He's had weird posts elsewhere, like claiming pera is "definitely town" an hour into the game here. I have a gut feeling, and those reads were, you guessed it, entirely gut feelings. As I said a few posts later when we were discusisng it. quote:Nothing in his history stands out to me as "this is a post a townie would have made." Beginning to feel like you clicked the question mark & skimmed my posts for poo poo you could jump on me for, especially since you, you know, left out your part of a point you made against me... quote:4) He used the allears emote, which is the second scummiest emote behind rolleyes. (This is semi-sincere, #1 and 2 are obviously the meat.) That is true, but I also use all ears when I am being a smug rear end town-member, and I am frequently a smug-rear end town member. As I am this game.  I dunno I feel okay about it! It's where my vote is right now and I'm comfortable keeping it there for the time being. [/quote]
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Jun 21, 2017 05:05
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areyoucontagious posted:Also Pera, I'm a Taurus, I like long walks on the beach with my wife (sorry ladies, I'm taken) and you could best describe my posting style as "desperately trying to be one of the cool kids" I resonate with the bold bit and I am fairly certain that was kind of what I was picking up on. On to something else before I lead in to why P Mush is probably a baddie...  I know BK's absence has been vouched for, and his last post on this forum was in this thread, and I'm hoping he is fine, but I'll be wary of this if it extends beyond this game day. Now onto P Mush... First off, don't take this as a defense of Ecco. While I don't necessarily find them scummy given how this game is playing out, I still will not ever get concrete evidence as to their alignment, so this is not a defense, but more of a condemnation of P Mush whose play seems 'less-than-town'. PMush's main point against Ecco, which she extended to me as well, is one against tone. This is the type of thing I normally harp on, because I try to suss out scummy behavior therein, but it's also something I get called out on a lot. As a beginner, I was unable to separate tone analysis from play, but PMush is a seasoned Maf vet. This rookie analysis without expounding upon it when requested is quite telling in my opinion. Quid gives a warning about not voting too hastily on the second game day, and PMush takes it as a reason to unvote, then PMush, mostly riding on the interactions of other players uses this, without explaining their own suspicions, makes a final vote against Ecco. Their play is undeniably bereft of anything substantial. This isn't a snipe, or mimicry, the proof is literally available to each of us by simply reviewing what has been said. If you can read through PMush's post history in context with everything that's been presented, can you tell me that their play is genuine? That they've made an actual effort. A case around a joke vote? Sniping commentary? It's not genuine. ##vote PMush --- I know pera doesn't care for it, but whatevs, 'dadding' or tone that can be identified as such isn't inherently scummy. I have found scum doing it, but usually there are apparent factual inaccuracies that go along with it. Tone here is tone, and I'm not paying much attention to it. Instead, I'm evaluating effort and response to pressure, or the lack thereof. Anyhow, I'm going to drain the stress of the day in the tears of internet edgelords that I conquer on digital fields of battle. Toodles!
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Jun 21, 2017 05:08
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I'm actually more on the fence about Ecco now because on the one hand she seems to be putting in more earnest effort with this series of exasperation posts rather than her "do my bidding, mafia-children" from before, but she's just coming to the seemingly wrong conclusions about everything and getting there in really shoddy ways. And in the back of my mind I keep wondering about the lack of flips completely changing the way scum are going to play. Scum can easily double down on town members together without fearing reprisal via connections to a bunch of bad cases if one of them flips. So I could easily see Ecco & friend doubling down on stupid poo poo because it's not gonna get them dunked in the future. Ecco especially probably has enough confidence in her mafia ability to believe she can talk herself out of anything (and she probably can, like, 80% of the time). I'm hurming all over the place here.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:09
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Quidthulhu posted:HURM.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:11
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Anyhow, I'm going to drain the stress of the day in the tears of internet edgelords that I conquer on digital fields of battle. what are you playing, i want to play 
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Jun 21, 2017 05:11
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Jun 21, 2017 05:12
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Quidthulhu posted:Ecco, you have come really hard out the gate saying we need to participate and do some major scumhunting. Like I said, you've done a really solid job initially of attempting to control the narrative. I haven't really seen you do any scumhunting yet, which, combined with your hard-nosed attitude, is giving me more pause than if you were simply being smug alone. This is one of the emptiest accusation posts I've seen. The game's barely started, to the point that you had just posted a content game, and you feel the need to say someone else is "controlling the narrative" ??? Seems as if you're trying to conjure up stuff.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:13
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Quidthulhu posted:I never presented it as anything else? There was almost nothing that had happened at that point except for Ecco making a jokevote on me, so my reads were understandably light and based on almost nothing. The way the list is presented should have made that obvious? This is a scumpost. Specifically that last sentence. It's not scummy, it's not an accusation, it's just "weird." Quid is above questioning, and he is manipulatively trying to say with this post that "picking at him" is suspicious and weird. You shouldn't do it. I think I'm gonna keep my vote on Quid.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:14
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Quidthulhu posted:what are you playing, i want to play Heroes of the Storm 
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Jun 21, 2017 05:14
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PMush Perfect posted:I found a way to watch it! I literally ahve the exact opposite reads of this post.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:15
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peramene posted:pera's gonna pera; I don't have anything else useful to say, except maybe this: I refuse to vote Ecco day one short of an outright scum confession. The nature of this experiment demands she see d2 so even if she's scum, I'd prefer to focus the other one first. eh.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:16
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peramene posted:I've gotta be out and about today so I am sad to report that for the most part, I won't be topless. hmmmmmm. this post, specifically that last paragraph, reads Fake As poo poo to me. Sara might be scum.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:17
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Also BK, you are officially lurking at this point, what's up? Nah, I think I fell solidly in the camp of unofficial lurking. But I'm back in action now.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:18
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Quidthulhu posted:PMush basically says "just putting down words for the sake of putting down words" - e.g., "faking content." Pmush's case, from the words she used: "Like they want to be seen saying the words they're saying, rather than for their meaning." The implication is that the words themselves are not problematic but rather how I've presented them. The alternative - that I'm saying the words I'm saying for their meaning - would not be a bad thing (or else PMush would have said "ecco made a bad post"). Indeed, the entire idea behind the post relies on the underlying words being good - because, in PMush's argument, I want to look like I'm saying good words but I don't actually mean them (since PMush's point turns around me trying to look better for having made those posts). You're extrapolating that PMush said something like "ecco is posting empty nonsense," which can't be supported by the text. And that's my point - you were manufacturing it to position yourself against me. Whether it was intentional or not is the question of whether you're scum or town, but let's not be confused about the underlying facts here. quote:You admit the first one is based on a misunderstanding, so that automatically contradicts your "look at him faking cases" point - I could be scum faking a case who got confused or town trying to engage with you who got confused & it wouldn't have changed the fact that I got confused. I believe your "misunderstandings" are because you're more likely scum than town. Reasonable minds can disagree, and obviously I'm not going to convince you you're scum.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:19
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AA, I disagree with you about PMush. Here's the deal, I know she's been snipe-y and unengaged for a lot of the game, so when you said that and with Ecco going on & on about how she's scum I went "maybe I am missing something and giving her too much of a pass," but reading her delineation of the Ecco case, I believe it:PMush Perfect posted:Ecco scum! So her initial vote was a joke vote on Ecco, but here she's feeling a gut read from both of you, which, with lack of other content, she stands by. She expands on her AA feelings (along with stuff about AYC being cool and BK being absent): PMush Perfect posted:AA did not exactly change my opinion by jumping in literally fifteen minutes after I called them suspicious and then immediately making a super-defensive post. Ecco comes in hard on PMush, and that solidifies it for her: PMush Perfect posted:Look at Ecco flying to the defense of her scumbuddy. It's beautiful. I think the latter statement is a good read and totally plausible. I could go on but ultimately I don't have a problem with the way PMush has come to develop her joke vote into a real vote. What do you see in her post history that you see as her "faking it" or whatever, AA?
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Jun 21, 2017 05:19
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PMush Perfect posted:the early days of Evil Sagan. If I ever have a band and we release a debut album, this will be the name of it.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:19
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Heroes of the Storm Quidnose#1228, add me friend, I was gonna play some games tonight. I'm not very good though!
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Jun 21, 2017 05:20
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EccoRaven posted:I'm gonna lock myself in. if anyone can answer this question I'll reconsider. I think PMush is town. She's acting pretty casual and loose which I have never known her to be as scum and also, while I don't think her case on you was good, I also don't think it was scummy. Honestly, I think Pmush/Ecco is a town slapfight tbh.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:22
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BottleKnight posted:I think PMush is town. She's acting pretty casual and loose which I have never known her to be as scum and also, while I don't think her case on you was good, I also don't think it was scummy. I think she'd shitpost and be a worthless lump as scum, yeah.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:23
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EccoRaven posted:Pmush's case, from the words she used: "Like they want to be seen saying the words they're saying, rather than for their meaning." Real life example from my life today, sorry for being political if anyone here doesn't want that but it makes my point: Donald Trump today said some poo poo about something or other, I can't remember, but he said a whole bunch of random crap about how "this is a great thing" and "we're working hard and doing great" and my response was "Man that dude has no idea what the gently caress is in [the bill or whatever] that he is publicly praising." I could easily say from that: "Donald Trump wants to be seen saying the words he's saying, rather than for the meaning." Which would mean "Donald Trump is acting like he is saying real things and if you're not paying attention it sounds like he is but in reality he isn't saying anything." Tell me truthfully, would you interpret my statement as me saying "He's saying good words but that doesn't matter because his intent is bad?" Like, how would you even get that from what I'm saying? Again, it's truly bizarre to me that you are doubling down on what ultimately we could handwave away as a semantic point, and one I think you are misinterpreting. But you're not saying "Maybe we can agree to disagree" or "maybe we're reading it differently then" or anything other than "you're objectively wrong here, quid, and that makes you scummy," and like...but you're wrong? I don't even know anymore with this 
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Jun 21, 2017 05:25
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EccoRaven posted:You're manufacturing a problem, like you manufactured a problem earlier with my interpretation of pmush's posts. Agreed. Quid does this as both town and scum, though, he's just a very excitable player. I think he's scum here though.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:25
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I am either extremely excited or completely absent. There is rarely an inbetween
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Jun 21, 2017 05:27
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Actual Reads Totally Town Quidnose - it's me my role PM says town~ Probs Town AYC - I think he's earnest and I haven't seen anything in his posting other than "trying to figure the game out". If he's scum he's playing the newbie card very well, but I don't see it right now. PMush - I think her poo poo has been genuine, and although I'd like to see more from her, I think that combined with three people coming out hard against her makes it more likely she's town at this point (although there are also many people against Ecco, who I think is scum, so that's admittedly a weaker argument). AA - I like his work Neutral BK - Not liking his incorrect case on me right now but I haven't seen enough from him to know anything yet. pera - So here's the thing, pera was seeming really genuine to me at the beginning of the game but then I remembered she's the Liar Queen and with the few weird things people have pointed out, I dunno. I think it's gonna be hard for me to ever get an actual read on pera in a mafia game. She's acting kinda weird but she always cats kinda weird so  Ecco - Everything in me is screaming SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM but again, she's...being so WEIRD about it, doubling down on bad cases, coming out hard and aggressive...as PMush said, this seems really atypical, even for Ecco queen of the poopoo-elites.... No flips is gonna make this hard going forward :\
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Jun 21, 2017 05:33
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I guess that wasn't super helpful.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:34
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For what it's worth, since this is a flipless game, I'm not going to vote for people I'm not sure about or think are town at deadline. We don't get information from their lynch, so if I do not think there is a >50% chance someone is scum, I'd rather no lynch. Right now I'm good with lynching Quidnose and Sara, and that's pretty much it.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:34
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BK, calling bullshit. You pulled a post from the beginning of the game jokephase as your hingepin, quoted one other early post, and have said nothing about anything else. I've posted a SHITTON of content since then. Why am I scum for what I've done on the last 3 pages? Source your quotes. You don't get to roll in & call me scum on that little with barely any comment, that's a load of garbage. It's lazy and frankly scummy as hell.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:36
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That is a lot of posts. Gimme a sec
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Jun 21, 2017 05:44
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Quidthulhu posted:Real life example from my life today, sorry for being political if anyone here doesn't want that but it makes my point: I'm telling you that one can't reasonably infer your position from PMush's post. Even in your example, "Donald Trump wants to be seen saying 'we're doing great!' rather than the meaning of those words" wouldn't make any sense. Nobody is doubting the meaning of Trump's words. There isn't a tension between what Trump said and what he meant. The problem with Trump's words is that they are fundamentally empty - the words don't connect to reality - not because the meaning behind the words themselves contrast with how he's saying them. Instead, you'd say "Trump wants to be seen saying 'we're doing great!' but his words ring hollow." An empty platitude about how great things are is not the same thing as saying "it's important in flipless games to be extra-forthright about your opinions." I'm sorry you're not grasping this. I don't think I can explain this more clearly without telling you what words are. I'm really not trying to be condescending here. As with all things in life there's a chance I'm the wrong buttdork here but I really don't think I am.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:47
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I think you are the wrongbuttdork here but it's not worth arguing anymore because we won't agree.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:49
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We don't really need to agree, what really matters is the audience.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:50
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Quidthulhu posted:No flips is gonna make this hard going forward :\ which is why it's so important for every member of the town to be engaged and posting their thoughts much more frequently than they would in a standard mafia game  Hey barnes is a main reason you think PMush is town because "Pmush would never shitpost as scum" because I don't think that's accurate at all.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:53
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Thank you for saying what I've been feeling in more words, Quid. BottleKnight posted:Nah, I think I fell solidly in the camp of unofficial lurking. But I'm back in action now. EccoRaven posted:I think she'd shitpost and be a worthless lump as scum, yeah.
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Jun 21, 2017 06:00
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PMush Perfect posted:I think I'm done engaging with Ecco this game. please remember my words postgame: EccoRaven posted:There is no way you can say your posting today helps the town.
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Jun 21, 2017 06:02
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