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I keep missing the vote but C + tell Orm that we also have a deep hatred for the dangers of the deep. A mutual enemy can help solidify a mutual protection pact. Or just a nuclear strike if our buddies are about to get their souls eaten...
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Jun 21, 2017 16:58
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Boonoo posted:Oh! I found this. OK, so at least in regards to "What Current Zepathans Believe", they believe Asherak is one of the Great Five Demons, who is dead. Diogines posted:
Zepa drove his bride, Asherah into the sea, having fought on the spot where the monument is. So I was mistaken that they think Asherak is the being chained below - they think Asherak is dead, and Asherah is bound, driven there by Zepa. The major disagreement is that most sources think the being that is bound is male, while Zepathans believe it to be female? I think? Most sources agree at least that a being known as Asherah is bound under the water. However, that leaves a couple of big questions: Why Does Amok refer to Asherah being bound, something he likely would not know having been asleep during that time? Why does he and Atharans refer to Asherah as a "he"? Is it possible he didn't realize Asherah was there prior to going to sleep, but woke up, flew in the air, and went, "Oh poo poo. OK, that thing in the ocean is bad news. Wow." If the Whore of Desolation is Her, why did she fight Zepa so far from where the Pit of the Orm is? (Though, when the snakes are the size of Manhattan, they can probably get around pretty quickly.) Is there another being bound in the ocean that pre-dates when Zepa drove Asherah into the sea? If Her is "Asherah", what led the forces that attacked Home? Task Manager fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 16:59
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Task Manager posted:Zepa drove his bride, Asherah into the sea, having fought on the spot where the monument is. So I was mistaken that they think Asherak is the being chained below - they think Asherak is dead, and Asherah is bound, driven there by Zepa. The major disagreement is that most sources think the being that is bound is male, while Zepathans believe it to be female? I think? Most sources agree at least that a being known as Asherah is bound under the water. However, that leaves a couple of big questions: My gut instinct is to trust Amok on this one and assume that Zepa both had a few things confused and that there has been a game of telephone that muddled the details over the years as these stories get passed down. Maybe Zepa encountered (Evil Her) and assumed it was Asherah. He later learns that there's actually a more powerful demon already chained under the ocean (Amok's Asherah), but since he had been boasting about killing Asherah the chained demon has to be called Asherak. He assumes that they're related in some way. If Tudiya fought a dragon for three days, I don't have trouble believing that Zepa fought Asherah/Her for longer and ended up far from where he started. The monument where he finally bested her. Maybe she had already left the Orm's pit and he found her where Zepath now stands (it might explain the secret, demon filled tunnels beneath it--although it may also be filled with a few of Zepa's 1/8 Melachim children.).
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Jun 21, 2017 17:14
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In a plot twist the Bride of Asherah is called YAHVEH Edit: I'm pretty sure that Zepathans believe that there is only one Ashera/Asherak and that it is dead. I will check when we first et the Obelisk, but Zepa mentioning a bride was a surprise I think Mr. Nemo fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 17:29
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Mr. Nemo posted:In a plot twist the Ftfy
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Jun 21, 2017 17:33
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Slaan posted:Ftfy oy vey!
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Jun 21, 2017 17:36
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What if Mom is She?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:43
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Diog, have we ever used presence sense on Jalithia?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:44
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Tell the story of Ibleam If that is still possible
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Jun 21, 2017 17:59
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Maybe SPIRIT-spirit works a little like the way some tabletop RPGs work with fate points or void points or whatever. You have a certain stat representing your number of [resource] points. You gain up to that many [resource] points passively after a certain amount of time but you never go over (barring certain circumstances). You spend those points on challenging tasks or to make yourself more likely to succeed at something or whatever, but you never actually lower your [resource] statistic. However, if something serious happens, like you are about to die or you're creating an artifact-level item or something, you can 'burn' (permanently lose) a [resource] point to create a proportionally enormous effect, like surviving a building falling on you or splitting an atom with a karate chop. Now instead of your resources refilling to X, they refill to X-1 permanently. Our well fills up slowly to some cap that we don't know and might even grow as we mature (and may be even partially gated by the PtB because of situations like our accidental mind control) with the rate of growth probably tied to either worship or adoration or maybe even just popularity (which is hilarious because we appear to have a passive charisma aura). We expend it to do fairly standard 'mighty' things, like hardening our skin, or making fire, or to just not needing to eat or breath. We've spent ??? points (clearly going to zero points causes hunger demon, regardless of what your cap is), but we've never actually burned our ??? stat that we know of. Orm says you need to actually spend SPIRIT-spirit to hurt some things, so maybe that's lowering your cap? Using Amok as an example, if all he did was chill out, fight regular monsters or mighty men, etc., then he'd probably live forever and never actually go mad. However he's not playing in the kiddie pool. He's fighting things like Fare, other Nephilim like himself, or Doom-level enemies. These are things that just being strong or fast can't beat. He has to burn ??? to cause real damage, lowering his ceiling while at the same time spending ??? to heal/harden, etc., thus weakening him and driving him closer and closer to madness as time goes on. This would potentially explain why we appear to gain ??? (assuming Nepesh/SPIRIT-spirit is ???) despite the Orm saying it's impossible. To the Orm we are as strong as our maximum ??? cap, because that's the playing field he operates on. He doesn't view us being 'weaker' because we aren't at our cap, or because we spend some ??? here or there, he just looks at us, has a loose idea of the amount of SPIRIT-spirit we could theoretically hold, and that's how strong we are, ignoring the actual circumstances (which is consistent with his lack of curiosity). His ??? is probably high enough anyway that his passive bonuses are so astronomically large that he can't even comprehend needing to spend it on the things we do. Enkidel needs to spend it on stuff like running cross-country or not eating/drinking, but we spend less on these things as time has gone on. As we approach cap, the usefulness of actually expending ??? will probably decrease because we just won't need to do so in most cases. To use an Enkidel example using our flame resistance/general toughness: We didn't have any resistance to fire at all when Enkidel was younger, so when we got burned, we spent ??? to heal, costing us a ton of ??? to keep from dying/rebuilding our body (think Tanaach). Now we have strong resistance to fire and are naturally tougher, so when we facetanked a point-blank grenade explosion in our workshop we didn't have to spend ??? rebuilding/repairing our entire body (which probably would have happened when we were 30), we just had to spend much less ??? doing minor healing/repairs. If we were to fast-forward about 100 years of ??? growth, I doubt we'd even have needed to use ??? to heal at all from that grenade, because we'd just be passively immune to the forces and heat of the explosion. I doubt our power growth is infinite, Amok was pretty clear that there's an end to our existence, but remember that he stood there, completely unphased, by the entire A-team of the Balls of Labaras wailing on him while he was choking us out. He wasn't concerned even a little about the damage they were (not) causing, or potential ??? losses from it, which you'd think he would be considering his whole 'CONTINUE TO RESIST, INSECT!' schtick. I bet after that nap he was either at or near his cap, and nothing short of stuff like First's club or something would have even made him expend ??? to protect himself due to his passive toughness bonuses. Blooded bronze was basically paper-mache to his skin. The idea that the weapons you use to fight god-tier enemies are usually weapons that either burn your essence or cause you to burn it in an unfixable way would also be consistent with the whole 'Enkidel, the items in the vault are not to be used casually, stop asking!' attitude. Going a little further with this, blooded individuals probably have some sort of ??? in them too, in this case bluestuff. They can't spend it or burn it. Something about the way it works in regular mortals means that what they have is what they have, and that makes them mighty. Part of the deal distributing it to humans was setting safeties, so they can't go hunger demon, or do certain things, so it most commonly presents as just superstrong, supertough, superfast, and the more bluestuff grows in you the more access you gain to the whole smattering of divine manipulation, but it's less dangerous because the bluestuff distribution for humanity has all the pathways and safeties properly set up. What I still wonder is entirely a function of birth/lineage (the blood of Labaras theory) or if it can also be impacted by an outside source (Maybe the Melachim juiced the poo poo out of Tudiya once he became king, even if he was already quite mighty, and would do the same with Aaron or Danal or Gareb, and maybe we're juicing Kavodel/enabling El to juice Kavodel harder). The minotaur fights that we were in when younger and our experience at Tanaach indicate that the Melachim *can* influence people's abilities, but it's hard to get a bead on whether they just gave the men a psychological boost or if they actually temporarily boosted the powerlevel of Zepath. For us its clear that they could give us at least partial temporary understanding of how our powers work, we even got a literal counter of our ??? points, and with that understanding comes efficiency. Wow, this took a long time to write up and god I hope it doesn't sound crazy to people. Question for Diog sort of relating to this. If Enkidel stabs himself in the hand with just a regular old bronze knife does the knife bend or does he get cut? I figure since we've been playing a lot of five-finger filet lately as part of Ish's training we probably didn't start with a blooded bronze knife, so this is something we probably already did. I'm going to feel really dumb if this question results in Enkidel just stabbing himself in the hand in a sandals-esque moment of dumbassery.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:00
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Man I feel like we really should have been yelling stuff about El in this situation. Kinda want to know how Orm feels about El. But don't want to get caved in.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:07
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Man I feel like we really should have been yelling stuff about El in this situation. Kinda want to know how Orm feels about El. But don't want to get caved in. Orm hasn't heard of El.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:10
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DCBomB posted:That reminds me. It's been awhile. Isn't it time to eat another rock? Enkidel should eat The Rock. As in, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Just pop through a dimension door into Earth and eat The Rock. The Rock's electricity-based moveset would go very well with air-themed Melachim powers, and Enkidel could potentially gain millions (AND MILLIONS) of [???]. But before eating The Rock, Enkidel should Eat The Black Goop.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:17
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Tsyni posted:Orm hasn't heard of El. I think it's because El is the Speech word for god. So basically we're asking, "Have you heard of [insert god here]?"
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Jun 21, 2017 18:24
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JosephWongKS posted:Enkidel should eat The Rock. As in, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Just pop through a dimension door into Earth and eat The Rock. The Rock's electricity-based moveset would go very well with air-themed Melachim powers, and Enkidel could potentially gain millions (AND MILLIONS) of [???]. The Rock is clearly earth-based, not electricity. I mean, come on. His name is The Rock.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:25
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Task Manager posted:OK, so at least in regards to "What Current Zepathans Believe", they believe Asherak is one of the Great Five Demons, who is dead. To try and reconcile this with the Orm's statement that 'Her' knew Zepa, it is possible that they were acquaintances from the time before the invasion of Home by the sea demons. If things played out as other posters have assumed - i.e. big invasion, 'Her' expends enough [???]/spirit-SPIRIT to become 'sick'/go hunger demon, then Damat didn't just send Zepa here just to colonise this region, but to actively remove 'Her' as a threat to Ur's borders. Certainly given the power level of the Orm, we can surmise that they would need someone pretty buff to deal with 'Her', hence one of Labaras' sons being sent. 'Her' being taken away and Zepa casting the Whore of Desolation into the sea are likely the same incident, and if they were acquaintances in the past maybe Zepa just locked the Orm away since he is generally harmless (in a manner of speaking). Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:30
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Diogines posted:
You stand in an underground cavern of great size and before you, the Orm. A creature the weight of a mountain, a serpent, is currently wrapping itself into a tight ball as it sobs and screams in grief, trying to recount something too horrible to contemplate. Something to cause it to shed endless tears as it sits in this pit for El-only-knows how many generations. You shout out to the Orm "I can't help you unless you tell me what happened!" The Orm only sobs. Ishamal once told you that given your lifespan if you could not manage grief, you would be swallowed by it. Would you ever get over some truly horrific fate happening to someone you love? Naomi, Paebel or... Snarls? Or would you fall into endless grief? Your namesake has a rather famous story on that topic...  If in the ruins of Amalek that demon lunged upon Snarls instead of Sebbekai would you ever just "get over it"?  The Orm only screams and sobs! You shout out again, you can't help unless he tells you what happened! He needs to tell you! The Orm lets out another anguished whail and between tears chokes out that "The Dangers came into Home! T-t-they hurt the Children! We fought and we fought and many of th-the-the Children died! Then the Dangers ran away b-b-but then-" The Orm lets out an anguished scream, you shout out again he has to tell you! You can't help if he won't tell you! Stammering and struggling to speak as he sobs the Orm says "SHE ATE THE CHILDREN AND BIT ME! B-b-but she didn't MEAN TO! Then the AZZAZELS came!" he cries out in great and terrible anger! You see flames of wrath in his eyes! "THEY TOOK HER AWAY! I tried to stop them but they were too strong!" Too strong... what force could restrain a creature the size of a mountain? You know what the "Azzazels" are... don't you? Why didn't you you go after them when they left!? "I CAN'T!" cries out the Orm "We PROMISED not to go onto Zepa's land without permission and now his land is ALL the land outside! And I have to protect Home! I PROMISED!" Is the "black goop" outside even something keeping the Orm in at all? Or is it there for another reason? The Orm cries out "But you can go! You can find them! Tell them she is not sick! SHE IS NOT SICK! Tell them to bring her Home! Please! Please! Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! Then everything can go back to how it was and... and we can bring the Children back and we can be happy! I- I- I just w-w-w-w-want things to go back to how they w-w-w-weeeere!" The Orm lets out a great cry of ancient grief and sorrow, shaking the land for many, many miles beyond. 1. You.... A. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! B. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! C. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! D. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! E. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! F. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! G. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! H. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! I. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! J. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! K. Tell them she is not sick! Tell them! Make them bring her home! L. Hug the Orm and cry! M. Run for it! The Orm is VERY upset! Hopefully too upset to try to stop you! N. Tell the Orm you will help. You are lying. What loyal servant of El would ever dare side against the "Azzazels"? Flee for your life. O. Tell the Orm you will help. You are not lying. P. The Orm may not actually be trapped at all, only... unwilling to leave because of a deal struck with Zepa by Her and... what, his role as the guardian of an abandoned ruin? Encourage the Orm to leave! Tell him you give him Zepa's permission to leave and encourage him that it is more important he goes to find Her than it is he sulks in this cave! You once asked Ishamal what to do if you were asked for permission to let the Orm out, though it was not specific as to whether or not if the Orm was asking or Azzazel. In either event he said "Deny him.". Q. And tell him where She is. A place which will very probably soon no longer exist if the Orm goes there? Fill in where you tell him. The Fist of Fare? A city attacking Tadmor in the Donut, "new" Amalek? Baitel if you are completely insane? Seir if you feel like being a dick? Somewhere else? Qb. Q., and ride the Orm's back! R. Tell the Orm you need to pray to your god for guidance. Leave the Pit (if the Orm lets you) and pray. S. Be steadfast and say "No" to the Orm, then run for it! T. Make a deal with the Orm. You lead many men and they go to many places. With them working on it, maybe they can find or help Her. But in exchange you want his help to fight Dangers nearby, like the one on the last Jubilee. As long as he helps, you will keep the search up. Tb., and you want the Orm's mystical headdress, which he said helps him fight Dangers. Tc. T., but you only want the headdress. Td. Tc., but you are lying! Rob the Orm! Te. You will help but you want gold, silver and gems! Of which there are a lot of here. U. "In the beginning there was only El and he dwelt over the waters..." the Orm said he never heard of El. Tell the Orm that El is the omnipotent creator of the universe and you can only help if El approves. The Orm must devote himself to El, acknowledge El's supremacy, make an offering, be circumcised and swear to fight Dangers in El's name. If he will do that and if El accepts the offering, and this crazy option somehow won, we will have a new vote after the offering to interpret the response, if any but if El accepts, you will help. This is not so much heretical as absolutely insane. Whether or not this thing is a demon or a god or WHAT it is, is up to you to determine and if it is a demon this is obviously heretical. Only men and Melachim serve El in the Old Tales. Monsters or beasts were enslaved by ancient heroes but nothing like THIS! As a reminder if you think the Orm is a demon or claiming divinity then it is probably El's foe. You serve a jealous god. V. Ask "Are you a god?" W. Tell him you need to consult with your Home and if the Orm lets you, go. Ask Ishamal. Consult with your mentor. Wb. W., but ask Tudiya. Consult with Zepath's king before trying to do something involving a giant monster on "his" land. Zepath's ancient boundaries include this land. Wc. W., but ask Zebanetha. Consult with a priest before making a decision with potentially serious spiritual consequences. Wd. ., but ask someone else. Who? Fill in. X. Something else. Fill in. Q&A is not open. If there is significant support for a question it might be asked. Time will advance as it does. Diogines fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:40
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Tsyni posted:Orm hasn't heard of El. I mean, like maybe El would be like "oh poo poo dude chill" or something. Extremely unlikely, but you never know.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:45
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quote:... or snarl L + dance
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Jun 21, 2017 18:45
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Qb - Baitel
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Jun 21, 2017 18:49
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Jun 21, 2017 18:49
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Jun 21, 2017 18:51
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LR Tell the Orm he's a Very Good Boy for keeping his promise! Let's pray about U specifically, or ways to make the Orm more ok. And if we get anything decide to do or not do U. When we pray we should sac the Orm orb that should still be up in the temple + whatever else we have on hand that's half deece. [edited per diog request] SniperWoreConverse fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:53
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L
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Jun 21, 2017 18:54
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Now we truly know what lurks in the underground. Depression. Boonoo fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:54
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Nice, more info. Alright, so now we've got what appears to be a much clearer picture of events. 1) Home is peaceful. Her and the Orm broker a deal with Zepa not to intrude on his lands. Zepa and Her appear to be at the least, acquaintances, as the deal was struck before She was taken away: quote:Why didn't you you go after them when they left!? "I CAN'T!" cries out the Orm "We PROMISED not to go onto Zepa's land without permission and now his land is ALL the land outside! And I have to protect Home! I PROMISED!". 2) Home is attacked by Dangers from the sea. They're driven off, but She depletes her [נֶ֫פֶשׁ] in the process. 3) Melachim ("Azzazels") come and take Her away. The poor, dumb Orm doesn't follow because he made a deal, and you don't break deals, do you? 4) The Melachim do....something....with Her. 5) The Orm disperses what's left of his Children to find her, they don't succeed; or maybe the Dangers and She killed them all; the Orm remains, with Azzazel showing up occasionally to try and cheer him up and make him feel better, because whatever She was, She isn't coming back. It still isn't confirmed that Her is the Asherah that Zepa drove into the sea, but it certainly seems more likely now given we know that melachim carried her off somewhere. She went mad from depleting her [נֶ֫פֶשׁ], and either she's in Melachim jail, or Zepa smote her and drove her into the sea. At the least, the "Zepa, Her, and the Melachim worked together to defeat something" angle seems busted. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:55
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SniperWoreConverse posted:LRU
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Jun 21, 2017 18:55
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U. Our God is a jealous god. Let's give El something no-one else ever has. El Ha Melech Kol Ha Olam!
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Jun 21, 2017 18:55
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Edited - Plan Ark with careful caveats about not putting words in El's mouth.
Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:56
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RU
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Jun 21, 2017 19:00
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LO
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Jun 21, 2017 19:01
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L + R There is nothing in this pit except sorrow.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:06
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U. The Orm is our friend. Let's share El's light with our friend.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:07
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L? Easier to spot the baby tier than ever. The Orm is obviously not a demon. Changing from Qb to U. Let's make our lover El a new friend for some sweet bonuses.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:07
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Diogines posted:L-R is fine. And you can express support for U. However, you would need to wait for R results first. edited my post
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Jun 21, 2017 19:08
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Launching a Snuke against Fare is very tempting but I'm waiting for someone to come up with a better plan.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:09
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L R U For U- Make it clear that the Azzazels didn't take her away forever. They took her to make her feel well again and not bite anyone else. If you pray real hard to their boss El the Azzazels have to listen. Azzazel is different from those Azzazels but they all have to Listen to El. El is like She to the Azzazels and you know children sometimes don't do things right and need to be helped. I will also talk to El and make sure he helps you find Her! It's hard for him to hear down here so I will go up right now and yell as loud as I can! I will be back very, very soon. You have been a good and brave snake and I know she is very proud of you! Then march up the side of the Well and shake Jael until they do something to comfort that poor, poor wretched construct because holy poo poo you don't rip a mother away from her child without helping the child understand. That's cruel and the PtB hosed up big time letting this pure and good creature wallow in agony as it screams for centuries just to see the smile of its mother just one more time. Holy gently caress you could have put it into a dream filled sleep where it was happy and let it sleep away the ages, or fixed its memory so it forgot the trauma, of just taken the time to explain to it what happened.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:10
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Launching a Snuke against Fare is very tempting but I'm waiting for someone to come up with a better plan. step 1: hug sad snek step 2: cry step 3: play sad flute goto 1 until it's time to play happy flute jam session! leave
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Jun 21, 2017 19:12
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Jun 21, 2017 19:12
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Tsyni posted:The Orm is obviously not a demon. I'm going to agree with Tiny Sigh here. The Orm doesn't seem to want to devour anyone to seek power, which seems to be the one thing all the demons we have seen so far want to do. I just don't see how telling the Orm about El and trying to convert him is going to calm the him down or get him closer to what he wants. Maybe knowing there is an all powerful being that made everything, including HER, and that this thing cares about its creations will help calm him? Or once he learns power word EL he'll just end up shouting it a bunch and channel so much energy that it blows him and us into oblivion/hunger town. I suppose if we took Ark's approach that might have a better chance of working. His suggestion seems to explain things in a manner that would make sense to the Orm. AbysmalPeptoBismol fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 19:12
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