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Finished TWOK and WOR over past few weeks, what do I go into next for the backstory/more info? I've not read any other Sanderson. I've just downloaded warbreaker.
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Jun 21, 2017 12:47
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Midnight- posted:Finished TWOK and WOR over past few weeks, what do I go into next for the backstory/more info? I've not read any other Sanderson. Warbreaker is the novel most connected to TWOK and WOR. In fact, one of the last chapters in TWOK has a real wham moment because a character from Warbreaker appears there, the first overt crossover in Sanderson's Cosmere setting (apart from Hoid, who's been in nearly every book. His alias in TWOK and WOR is Wit - Trying not to make it too obvious...) Next you have either the two works on Sel, Elantris and Emperor's Soul, or the Mistborn series. Elantris is Sanderson's first book, and it shows. It's not bad, but his later works are more refined and just better. Emperor's Soul is a shorter novella, usually considered his best single work. It's set in the same world as Elantris, but has no direct connections to it. Both books can be read in any order. Then you have his Mistborn books. Final Empire, Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages are all pretty good, though Well of Ascension can drag on a bit too long in some places. After that you have the Wax and Wayne books, we are currently waiting for the fourth and final book in that era, currently planned to be released in 3rd quarter 2018. If you want to look more for stuff directly connected to TWOK/WOR, then you will have the most luck with the Mistborn books.
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Jun 21, 2017 13:29
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I world suggest that Emperor's Soul is crucial to understanding soulcasting.
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Jun 21, 2017 13:47
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Torrannor posted:Warbreaker is the novel most connected to TWOK and WOR. In fact, one of the last chapters in TWOK has a real wham moment because a character from Warbreaker appears there, the first overt crossover in Sanderson's Cosmere setting (apart from Hoid, who's been in nearly every book. His alias in TWOK and WOR is Wit - Trying not to make it too obvious...) You're forgetting that there's an entire Stormlight novella in the Arcanum Unbounded collection.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:44
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Torrannor posted:
I have to disagree - Elantris is a complete slog to get through, though the last quarter of the book is good. I've re-read almost everything of Sanderson's at least once, but I have very little interest in rereading Elantris. Emperor's Soul is amazing.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:39
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I'll second Arcanum Unbounded. Sanderson's best works are his short stories, and UA is full of them. It has Edgedancer, which is a Stormlight Archive short story in the perspective of Lift. It also has emperor's soul, Shadows of Silence in the Forests of Hell, and a bunch of other really good shorts.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:29
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OneTwentySix posted:I have to disagree - Elantris is a complete slog to get through, though the last quarter of the book is good. I've re-read almost everything of Sanderson's at least once, but I have very little interest in rereading Elantris. Emperor's Soul is amazing. I'm reading Elantris for the first time right now and I'm like 20% in and not digging it. I'm used to much more happening in Sanderson novels (I've read original Mistborn series and both Stormlight Archive releases so far). Guess I will keep slogging through to get to that last quarter.
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Jun 22, 2017 03:27
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I know I'm new to the thread, but if you're a busy person, you can skip Elantris and read a plot summary :/
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Jun 22, 2017 03:38
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insider posted:I'm reading Elantris for the first time right now and I'm like 20% in and not digging it. I'm used to much more happening in Sanderson novels (I've read original Mistborn series and both Stormlight Archive releases so far). Guess I will keep slogging through to get to that last quarter. Elantris really does suffer from the Sanderson plot dump that happens in the last bit of the book. I thought it was worth it, but if you don't feel like slogging through it do what Potato Salad said and just read a plot summary, or the entry for it on the 17th Shard.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:02
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seaborgium posted:Elantris really does suffer from the Sanderson plot dump that happens in the last bit of the book. I thought it was worth it, but if you don't feel like slogging through it do what Potato Salad said and just read a plot summary, or the entry for it on the 17th Shard. It suffers from him being a new author and doesn't have the benefit of all the work he's done to improve his craft. He uses interstitial chapters as a crutch, killing the story's natural momentum, and his characters and their voices (with one fantastic exception) are clunky and a bit unnatural. All that said, it has a great avalanche at the end. I haven't reread it (unlike most books) but I'm glad I read it at least once.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:20
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I like rereading Elantris, because I can skip the princess sections and enjoy the prince and the monk on their own (the monk is very well written, and I'm a sucker for optimistic hope-porn, so I like the prince too). The Sanderlanch is an acquired taste, of course, but I'm fine with it.
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Jun 23, 2017 08:37
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If you like Sanderson and want other authors I actually recommend Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle, since it's all that doorstopper worldbuilding business except the 'world' in this case is real world history in the 17th and 18th centuries with some historical people replaced with the fictional main characters. Also has some little fantasy bits in it. Also if you like both doorstoppers and Sanderson avalanches, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell is set during the Napoleonic Wars that has magic in it and is basically a super slow start with the first third almost making you think "why do I bother slogging through this crap when there's only been a couple of good bits" but getting faster and better as it goes along until it almost has a good ol' Sanderson Avalanche at the end.
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Jun 28, 2017 02:23
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bewilderment posted:If you like Sanderson and want other authors I actually recommend Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle, since it's all that doorstopper worldbuilding business except the 'world' in this case is real world history in the 17th and 18th centuries with some historical people replaced with the fictional main characters. Also has some little fantasy bits in it. Where Sanderson seems to have inspired endings to his books, to the point I'm halfway sure he writes the ending first and then tries to figure out how to get all his characters there, Stephenson's endings just... don't. I read Cryptonomicon and loved it, despite its weird ending that just sort of trailed off where I didn't expect it. I then read Anathem, which again I really enjoyed but I didn't feel really resolved anything right at the end. The Boroque Cycle books, Seveneves, and some other books of his all do the same thing. Maybe I don't understand them or misinterpret his writing, but it's like he doesn't know how to write a satisfying conclusion or refuses to on some general principle. His plots also tend to meander all over the place and don't seem to have clear resolution or explanation why they followed the track they did, which often span the globe in several continent-hopping jumps. His writing is very technical and does tend to hold to some kind of "reality" even if it's a fantastical one, but I really don't see much similarity between him and Sanderson. I've obviously read a lot of his books, but at the end of them I'm not even sure if I've enjoyed them. I usually feel like I learned something though, which is why I keep doing it.
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Jun 28, 2017 03:26
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I would say that some Stephenson books have good endings and some have bad and that it's hardly a rule. The Baroque Cycle for instance has a great ending, but Seveneves has a good one followed by a terrible several hundred page epilogue, which itself ends in a fine place for the minor tale it's telling, but is so unnecessary it doesn't feel like that. Anathem has a decisive ending, probably his most satisfying. Snowcrash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon do not. I also wouldn't compare him to Sanderson at all. Every detail that Sanderson introduces ends up being important, even in the boring slogs that make up the middle parts of several of his books. Stephenson introduces ideas and concepts and tangents that are often at best additional characterization or world building but are usually no more than extraneous flavor or simply interesting ideas that Stephenson wanted to delve into briefly. I also don't think Sanderson explores ideas very deeply or develops characters all that well, two staples of Stephenson. Plus, while Stephenson is often grounded in reality, his stories remain mechanically undefined. This would be impossible in a Sanderson book, but would ruin something like Anathem or The Baroque Cycle, the latter of which is all about the struggle for acceptance between two competing mechanical systems and the possible magic undermining both.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:15
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Atlas Hugged posted:I would say that some Stephenson books have good endings and some have bad and that it's hardly a rule. The Baroque Cycle for instance has a great ending, but Seveneves has a good one followed by a terrible several hundred page epilogue, which itself ends in a fine place for the minor tale it's telling, but is so unnecessary it doesn't feel like that. Yeah, Baroque Cycle has an actual ending which is why I recommended it over the other stuff. Basically I see it as a 'fantasy epic' and apparently Stephenson's own intent was to make it a 'sci fi epic', just that in this case the science is 17th-century science rather than far-future science. I don't think there's much magical that really derails Baroque Cycle other than the very first book making it clear in the first fifty pages or so "Enoch Root is basically a wizard, just accept that and move on". It's Baroque Cycle specifically I recommend, basically, for Sanderson readers, not the rest (unless, of course you like Baroque and want more). It wouldn't make any sense to say 'if you like Sanderson, try Anathem or Snow Crash' because those don't really have much in common while at least to me, Baroque Cycle had some commonalities.
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Jun 28, 2017 06:16
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bewilderment posted:Yeah, Baroque Cycle has an actual ending which is why I recommended it over the other stuff. Basically I see it as a 'fantasy epic' and apparently Stephenson's own intent was to make it a 'sci fi epic', just that in this case the science is 17th-century science rather than far-future science. I guess if you want to bridge readers from Sanderson to Stephenson then that would be the book to recommend, but other than being long I don't see any parallels. As for magic, the gold Newton is after is literally infused with the essence of God.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:57
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Atlas Hugged posted:I guess if you want to bridge readers from Sanderson to Stephenson then that would be the book to recommend, but other than being long I don't see any parallels. Multiple intersecting plots and kinda-fun character interaction and worldbuilding? As for the spoiler - yeah there's more magic behind the scenes but I mean in the sense that from that starting point the rest is easy to jump into. So it's not like "100% historical fiction but suddenly boom fireballs" but "it's history but right from the start because it spans across two time periods in the first fifty pages you know something is up because one character is literally calling the other one out on how he hasn't aged".
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Jun 29, 2017 01:14
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bewilderment posted:Multiple intersecting plots and kinda-fun character interaction and worldbuilding? This is vague enough that I could apply it to just about anything. "Why yes, Guy Richie and Brandon Sanderson have a lot in common and therefore if you like one you'll like the other." That isn't to say that you can't compare Sanderson and Stephenson. They both have world building and the worlds are integral parts of the plot, but how and why they intersect plot points is totally different. Besides, I don't think Sanderson is particularly good at writing or developing characters and the interactions between them is always in direct service of the plot, and comparing that aspect to Stephenson feels really off the mark to me. But again, I can compare Sanderson to anyone and say there are multiple plot threads and sometimes fun characters in both works, but it really isn't saying much.
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Jun 29, 2017 06:26
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Q&A with Oathbringer beta readers
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Jun 30, 2017 21:17
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I haven't posted in this thread since 2,800 posts ago, but I noticed when preordering Oathbringer that there's a Stormlight novella coming out in the fall as well. Since it's been out in anthology already, should I read it before Oathbringer, after, or not at all? What do you guys recommend?
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Jul 5, 2017 08:01
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Charlz Guybon posted:I haven't posted in this thread since 2,800 posts ago, but I noticed when preordering Oathbringer that there's a Stormlight novella coming out in the fall as well. Are you talking about Edgedancer? Yeah read it before Oathbringer.
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Jul 5, 2017 08:57
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Charlz Guybon posted:I haven't posted in this thread since 2,800 posts ago, but I noticed when preordering Oathbringer that there's a Stormlight novella coming out in the fall as well. It takes place between WoR and Oathbringer, so read it first. It's a Lift novel, so if you found her obnoxious, you may not want to read it. Edit:Is that a Wheel of Time username, or just a coincidence?
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Jul 5, 2017 09:05
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Torrannor posted:It takes place between WoR and Oathbringer, so read it first. It's a Lift novel, so if you found her obnoxious, you may not want to read it. Will do. I loved her. Yes. socialsecurity posted:Are you talking about Edgedancer? Yeah read it before Oathbringer. Yeah, it's being released on kindle as a stand alone in October. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 10:01
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I hated Lift until Brandon really started getting into the meaning of her vows. And shard spoon.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:36
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Elantris was the first Sanderson book I've read, and I wasn't really impressed. I never even bothered to learn the name of the author. So when they announced that he would finish my favorite fantasy series after Robert Jordan had died, I didn't recognize him. After looking him up, I was a bit apprehensive because the original Elantris was not really a masterpiece, but Sanderson did a good work with the last three WoT books. After reading The Gathering Storm, I bought the The Final Empire and became hooked on his works. Now I'm rereading the WoT books again, and it's a bit different from my first reading. I can now recognize some parts that were clearly written by Sanderson, especially his humor or some characters that could fit right into his other works. When I've first read those, I just felt them to be different from RJ.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:07
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Torrannor posted:Elantris was the first Sanderson book I've read, and I wasn't really impressed. I never even bothered to learn the name of the author. So when they announced that he would finish my favorite fantasy series after Robert Jordan had died, I didn't recognize him. After looking him up, I was a bit apprehensive because the original Elantris was not really a masterpiece, but Sanderson did a good work with the last three WoT books. After reading The Gathering Storm, I bought the The Final Empire and became hooked on his works. I think (someone could correct me) that the way he wrote Mat Cauthon is Sanderson's biggest regret about how he handled his portion of WoT. One thing I noticed about Robert Jordan's style was that combat scenes were very nuts-and-bolts, like he explained how this leads to this leads to this, which came from his background in military school, and when Sanderson took over those scenes became kinda generic.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:40
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mewse posted:I think (someone could correct me) that the way he wrote Mat Cauthon is Sanderson's biggest regret about how he handled his portion of WoT. Yes, I was thinking of Mat the most when I wrote of characters that were undeniably Sanderson-y. Jordan was really, really good with the big battle scenes. And it's weird, but I loved the parts in The Fires of Heaven, where Mat first begins to lead people in battle. Jordan only describes how Mat maneuvers his forces to be in the winning position without showing the battle itself, but it just works. His tours in Vietnam certainly didn't hurt Jordan's writing abilities.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:49
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To me the part he had most obviously written himself was the guy who could make gates really efficiently but not do much else. It's just very Sanderson with giving a character a limited power set to overcome a big obstacle without breaking the 'rules' of the powers.
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Jul 16, 2017 23:59
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Torrannor posted:Elantris was the first Sanderson book I've read, and I wasn't really impressed. I never even bothered to learn the name of the author. So when they announced that he would finish my favorite fantasy series after Robert Jordan had died, I didn't recognize him. After looking him up, I was a bit apprehensive because the original Elantris was not really a masterpiece, but Sanderson did a good work with the last three WoT books. After reading The Gathering Storm, I bought the The Final Empire and became hooked on his works. How hard would the WoT books be to get in to? I never got around to reading them and at this point I'm worried they haven't aged well.
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Jul 17, 2017 03:55
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Evil Fluffy posted:How hard would the WoT books be to get in to? I never got around to reading them and at this point I'm worried they haven't aged well. They've aged decently well I would say. Worth your time if you've never gotten in.
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Jul 17, 2017 04:24
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I don't see how they'd age badly, they are fantasy novels set in a medieval-ish period. It's not like they're Shakespeare and the English language has moved on since they were written
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Jul 17, 2017 05:28
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mewse posted:I don't see how they'd age badly, they are fantasy novels set in a medieval-ish period. I think its not so much they haven't aged badly, rather than so much better fantasy has been written (and you aren't 15 anymore) that going back to something like WoT after reading Sanderson (which is very fast paced with always constant interesting things happening) or Abercrombie (which really pushes typical tropes and story and characters to an amazing level). There would have been a great series in there, but it's spread out over way too many books to be enjoyable.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:40
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WoT is indeed a tad too long, it's not that obvious in the first couple of books but I think 7-10 kinda drag on until you get to the last 3 written by Sanderson. Still one of the best series I've ever read. Skipping all the Perrin chapters in books 7 and 8 probably makes the series better. Imagine Sanderson writing a book about Tuon and Mat post war, now that would totally be his thing.
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Jul 17, 2017 06:22
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Xaris posted:so much better fantasy has been written People still read Tolkien *spit*
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Jul 17, 2017 07:10
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Well amazon just 'no longer available' d my oathbringer pre-order and offered it to me again with a 17th Nov release for £25 which I'm fairly certain is a few quid more than the old price.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:00
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Tahirovic posted:WoT is indeed a tad too long, it's not that obvious in the first couple of books but I think 7-10 kinda drag on until you get to the last 3 written by Sanderson. Still one of the best series I've ever read. Skipping all the Perrin chapters in books 7 and 8 probably makes the series better. If I remember right (and this is probably why you posted this) I think Jordan was planning on just that, and there was some hopeful speculation that Sanderson would take up that mantle, too.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:23
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Evil Fluffy posted:How hard would the WoT books be to get in to? I never got around to reading them and at this point I'm worried they haven't aged well. It's a bit tricky. The very first book borrows a good deal from The Fellowship of the Ring, but the later books quickly establish their independence from LotR. Books 1-6 are pretty fast paced imho, books 7-10 lose a bit of focus. Books 11-14 wrap things up well. I think the WoT books are as good as contemporary works. The characters are multi-dimensional, go through character development and their individual plots often drive the story as much as the overarching plot. But the series is much less graphically violent than for example George Martin's or Joe Abercrombies' stories, and also always fades to black for sex. It's much tamer in that regard, even though hosed up poo poo like torture and rape clearly happen. But Sanderson was a very good choice to finish the series, since his works are very similar. If you are not bothered about a lack of sex and violence in Brandon's work, you won't be bothered about a similar lack in WoT. rafikki posted:If I remember right (and this is probably why you posted this) I think Jordan was planning on just that, and there was some hopeful speculation that Sanderson would take up that mantle, too. Jordan was indeed planning to write stories about Tuon and Mat post war, but they (his wife + Sanderson) said there's too little material left to do this any justice and so have decided to not to write any further books in the setting 
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Jul 17, 2017 12:45
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Torrannor posted:But the series is much less graphically violent than for example George Martin's or Joe Abercrombies' stories, and also always fades to black for sex. It's much tamer in that regard, even though hosed up poo poo like torture and rape clearly happen. But Sanderson was a very good choice to finish the series, since his works are very similar. If you are not bothered about a lack of sex and violence in Brandon's work, you won't be bothered about a similar lack in WoT. I really don't get this "it has to be gritty" thing for fantasy, if I want to read about violence and rape I can read a US College report or the news in general. Not having that poo poo spelled out Sword of Truth style (barbed demon penis rape to empower women....) is actually nice. It's actually why I like Mat and Tuon so much it's just fun and messing around, while still being serious about goals. Fake edit: I know of at least 3 series that have a rape scene to empower a female character, I guess it's so common you could call it a trope?
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Jul 17, 2017 13:02
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WoT is okay, but can come off highly derivative and old hat in many places if you come to it late (just as a lotr can). Also the seanchan are story cancer and I hate everything about them, including mat's manic pixie dream tsundere.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:27
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WOT is great until you hit the point where he stops being able to wrap up plots in a single book. Then you get stuck with annoying stuff like one group of people hanging out in the same town doing the same thing for like 3 books and its gets horribly grating. The last Jordan book and the 3 Sanderson ones finish it well though, so its really a question if you can survive books 7-10. You will probably start noticing the issues in 7, bear it in 8, and then just hate books 9 and 10... I got stuck on book 9 for like a year or two...
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Jul 17, 2017 14:43
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