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shrike82 posted:I just set up a Ryzen 7 1700 with a 1080 Ti. I've installed the latest chipset drivers. Welcome to Team Red 
Risky Bisquick fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 16:29
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Thanks, I've set XMP for my ram. I'm wary about overclocking the CPU, I understand that doing so disables idling?
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Jun 22, 2017 16:51
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shrike82 posted:Thanks, I've set XMP for my ram. I'm wary about overclocking the CPU, I understand that doing so disables idling? Use P-State overclocking if your BIOS supports it. It's probably in a menu under AMD CBS.
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Jun 22, 2017 16:56
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SamDabbers posted:Use P-State overclocking if your BIOS supports it. It's probably in a menu under AMD CBS. Just checked this on my setup and apparently it set itself up automatically. That's pretty nifty of Asrock.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:56
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I've been keeping this in for too long WHERE ARE MY APUs LISA SU? With all these SKUs eating pretty much every conceivable defect on a Zeppelin die, I don't imagine desktop APUs are necessarily a priority but my mad science projects can only wait so long.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:42
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Back-to-school at the earliest, more likely Christmas.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:15
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Combat Pretzel posted:At least AM4 doesn't fry your CPU, whenever you intent to use that weird upgrade path Intel thought up. 
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Jun 22, 2017 20:44
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Back-to-school at the earliest, more likely Christmas.  I just want it so bad. I want to make VESA mounted PlayStation killers.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:20
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NewFatMike posted:
AMD should support the new STX motherboard standard, I bet they could go full retard with the board design and integrate a Lexa GPU on a premium version so you can use Summit/Pinnacle as well.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:53
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Here come the white box EPYC servers http://www.anandtech.com/show/11567/tyan-announces-amd-epyc-tn70ab8026-server-1p-16-dimms-26-ssds-oculink
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Jun 22, 2017 22:05
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SamDabbers posted:Use P-State overclocking if your BIOS supports it. It's probably in a menu under AMD CBS. thanks man, i've OCed to 3.7GHZ. Dumb question but how does overclocking here differ from the max turbo core speed of 3.7GHZ that the 1700 advertises? Does that also go up proportionately?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:09
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shrike82 posted:thanks man, i've OCed to 3.7GHZ. Dumb question but how does overclocking here differ from the max turbo core speed of 3.7GHZ that the 1700 advertises? Does that also go up proportionately? No. Turbo only works on a single core for the most part. The OC you just did basically applies turbo to all cores when they're used and can take advantage of it. Turbo is also disabled when you OC as well.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:23
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Ok, that was.... an experience. So I'm running the ASUS Prime B350 Plus now and it seems to be going fine. Stupid loving red LED along the board but whatever. I actually like the layout more than I do the ASRock. Except with the ASRock board I did a clean install of Win 10 Pro and didn't run into activation issues. I guess since it regsitered yet another motherboard so quickly that activation became fucky not to mention that I didn't do another clean install. Remember the days where you could just call into that automated Microsoft line and punch in those sets of numbers to reactivate your Windows product key? Because, holy gently caress. Had to get the live chat thing built in Win 10 to talk with an agent who, for the first time ever in my life, ended up remote connecting to my PC (with my permission of course) and proceeded to do all the steps I'd already done before he said "One second please let me speak with my supervisor" and.... gave me a brand new Windows 10 key. My old key went back to Win 8. That was definitely a new one for me. Also, the live chat for Windows 10 is pretty awesome surprisingly. For those curious for potential future builds, this ASUS board ran into no issues from the get go and the Kingston RAM I'm running is registering at the correct timings and frequency so yay. Hopefully this one doesn't poo poo the bed any time soon.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:05
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The cybersecurity part of my brain is screaming
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Jun 23, 2017 02:29
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^^^^^^ It's not like his install didn't send everything to them already via "optional" telemetry... I asked before but my timetable for buying a new machine got bumped up: Our main work is embedded micros, embedded linux, android and android apps. Shittons of compiling which is all massively parallel, so a $200 6/12 Ryzen 5 1600 is awfully appealing compared to a $300+ 4/8 I7-7xxx. That leaves two questions: Is the GCC segfaulting sorted out yet? Is the IOMMU fuckery sorted out yet? Being able to run linux+windows side-by-side is incredibly useful. Pay a bit more for a windows license thats legal in a VM, pay a lot less for duplicated hardware. I'm going to be stuck on this upgrade cycle for a while, so I don't want to get hosed like I did with this FX chip.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:36
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GCC fuckery hasn't been sorted out. Individuals report mixed results from various workarounds. Turning on load line calibration with a low setting has fixed the issue for a few people. On one of the community threads an AMD employee implied the issue wasn't widespread and they were doing service for affected individuals. Not sure I'm comfortable with that but I can believe it doesn't affect all chips. IOMMU groups do seem resolved, though that also comes down to the specifics of your motherboard. Do your research. The biggest one stopping me is NPT performance with GPU passthrough, which apparently has been a problem for AMD as far back as bulldozer. AMD hasn't properly acknowledged this issue, from what I've seen. This would be a critical failure on threadripper, which otherwise seems perfect for a gaming VM build. Desuwa fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 02:46
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Potato Salad posted:The cybersecurity part of my brain is screaming I know, right?!
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Jun 23, 2017 02:47
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Desuwa posted:The biggest one stopping me is NPT performance with GPU passthrough, which apparently has been a problem for AMD as far back as bulldozer. AMD hasn't properly acknowledged this issue, from what I've seen. This would be a critical failure on threadripper, which otherwise seems perfect for a gaming VM build. What is NPT in this context?
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Jun 23, 2017 03:03
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Paul MaudDib posted:What is NPT in this context? Nested page tables, another term for second-level address translation, or as Intel calls it, Extended Page Tables. It's a hypervisor acceleration technology that allows hypervisors to use the full feature set of x86 paging without the associated software overhead of page table shadowing. Hyper-V has required it since 2008R2, and bhyve and OpenBSD vmm both require it.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:12
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Kazinsal posted:Nested page tables, another term for second-level address translation, or as Intel calls it, Extended Page Tables. It's a hypervisor acceleration technology that allows hypervisors to use the full feature set of x86 paging without the associated software overhead of page table shadowing. Hyper-V has required it since 2008R2, and bhyve and OpenBSD vmm both require it. Goddamn it AMD. Seriously, the one thing that is going to actually piss cloud vendors off is problems with virtualization.  And this is the first AMD product in a datacenter in a decade, and you just got fresh new branding and everything too I'm not gonna lie, even a lot of the use-cases I can imagine for TR myself are virtualization-related (dual-boxing a linux server and windows gaming system or dual-seat gaming box at once, thin OS/container host like FreeBSD or CoreOS, etc) and the larger the scale the more virtualization becomes a system management tool you need. AWS and other infrastructure-scale cloud providers are 100% virtualized everything, each instance is a VM on a host. I really hope they have software fixes for all this poo poo super soon because didn't Epyc launch to customers this week?
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Jun 23, 2017 03:30
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Isnt the rumoured b2 step ment to fix these issues?
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Jun 23, 2017 03:47
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Scarecow posted:Isnt the rumoured b2 step ment to fix these issues? Don't call it a comeback
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Jun 23, 2017 05:16
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Scarecow posted:Isnt the rumoured b2 step ment to fix these issues? AMD hasn't acknowledged the NPT bug. We also don't know what the B2 stepping is supposed to fix, if anything. Searching for NPT and ryzen in the VFIO subreddit will turn up some discussion over people attempting to manage it. The short of it is that leaving NPT enabled will ruin GPU performance but disabling it will ruin CPU performance. https://community.amd.com/thread/215931 https://www.redhat.com/archives/vfio-users/2017-April/msg00019.html https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/iommu/2017-May/021592.html e: Ah, here's the much older bug I saw: https://sourceforge.net/p/kvm/bugs/230/ Apparently it's been broken forever on AMD and nobody cared because nobody used AMD processors. There's a reasonable chance of this getting attention, with Ryzen being usable, but if there isn't at least a fix in the pipeline by the time I do my build I'm going to have to go with SKLX even if it burns my apartment down. Desuwa fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 05:47
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NPT performance can't be fixed in software, if the hardware doesn't work it's slower to work around it than just take the trap and emulate the table manipulation for the guest like you did before NPT was a thing. GCC fuckery may be fixable, if what the DragonflyBSD guys found is the cause. The usual poo poo with errata: "Matt Dillon posted:Hi, Matt Dillon here. Yes, I did find what I believe to be a hardware issue with Ryzen related to concurrent operations. In a nutshell, for any given hyperthread pair, if one hyperthread is in a cpu-bound loop of any kind (can be in user mode), and the other hyperthread is returning from an interrupt via IRETQ, the hyperthread issuing the IRETQ can stall indefinitely until the other hyperthread with the cpu-bound loop pauses (aka HLT until next interrupt). After this situation occurs, the system appears to destabilize. The situation does not occur if the cpu-bound loop is on a different core than the core doing the IRETQ. The %rip the IRETQ returns to (e.g. userland %rip address) matters a *LOT*. The problem occurs more often with high %rip addresses such as near the top of the user stack, which is where DragonFly's signal trampoline traditionally resides. So a user program taking a signal on one thread while another thread is cpu-bound can cause this behavior. Changing the location of the signal trampoline makes it more difficult to reproduce the problem. I have not been able to completely mitigate it. When a cpu-thread stalls in this manner it appears to stall INSIDE the microcode for IRETQ. It doesn't make it to the return pc, and the cpu thread cannot take any IPIs or other hardware interrupts while in this state. To hit it, ASLR needs to place your stack base high enough for a process that takes an interrupt on the opposite side of a hyperthread core while your stack is shallow enough to still be up there, and you have to be consuming CPU time, not waiting on something. The exact type of conditions that'd make for apparently random and rare segfaults. If he's right, then a "Lol Ryzen" chunk that ASLR won't place the stack in would be enough to fix it. It's compounded by the other killers of GCC - memory timing issues, overclocking and power delivery. GCC has always been astoundingly good at ferreting out systems with flakeyness, to the point that doing a parallel kernel or firefox or xorg make is a great way to check stability. We won't know until AMD definitively answers. There's no shame in saying "Yup, that's our bad, here's how to work around it with no performance penalty." It's not like Intel has ever shipped a chip with working TSX... I'll put I7s in at work this time around, and see what Threadripper brings when I renew my machine at home in the fall.
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Jun 23, 2017 06:01
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Harik posted:GCC fuckery may be fixable, if what the DragonflyBSD guys found is the cause. The usual poo poo with errata: racecondition.jpg Like this isn't even just a computer engineering thing, this is a computer thing, this is what engineers spend months banging their head against and then it turns out to be a latency-sensitive problem that only occurs on even numbered years on months where the 2nd is a tuesday because of a goddamned race condition and you can't reproduce it to save your life. Nice hail-mary there Matt, and you have a test case that reproduces. Fuckin' A. I really want to read the postmortem on this from both AMD and Matt's side. Hackernews, make it happen 
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 06:17
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That's a cool article link.
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Jun 23, 2017 06:29
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Desuwa posted:Searching for NPT and ryzen in the VFIO subreddit will turn up some discussion over people attempting to manage it. The short of it is that leaving NPT enabled will ruin GPU performance but disabling it will ruin CPU performance.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:08
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Combat Pretzel posted:GPU performance is currently irrelevant for cloud providers. If Microsoft wants to compete with amazon when it comes to tensor computer nodes they will.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:12
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Combat Pretzel posted:GPU performance is currently irrelevant for cloud providers. I didn't mention cloud providers, but at the same time I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. However, GPU compute is a completely different beast from trying to play games on a consumer GPU with passthrough and it's unknown if the bug even gets triggered with how cloud providers set up their machines. I'm hoping this will get attention just because enthusiasts are actually buying and using AMD processors, and Threadripper especially is a perfect fit for the gaming VM use case, but I'm not holding my breath for a silver bullet. If AMD does look at it and it can't be fixed until Zen+, or later, then I'll just have to go with SKLX once Volta is released. Hopefully Intel will have announced a soldered revision before that.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:25
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AT has a long write up on Glofo's new 7nm DUV process and the future of AMD's chips in general. Pretty interesting if you wanna get real nerdy. http://www.anandtech.com/show/11558/globalfoundries-details-7-nm-plans-three-generations-700-mm-hvm-in-2018
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Jun 23, 2017 19:09
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I can't seem to get ANY virtual machines running properly. I seem to run into problems on an MSI B350 board even with IOMMU set to Auto and SVM enabled in the BIOS. VirtualBox will boot WinXP for a split second before going to a black screen, and the only thing that seems to fix it is diasbling VT-x/AMD-V in the Processor settings. Not sure if this is a question for the AMD thread, or the virtualization thread. EDIT: Nope, not even disabling VT-x/AMD-V worked. I was able to install XP on the VHD but as soon as it tried to boot into the OS for the OOBE, it black screened less than a few seconds after hitting the XP splash screen. This loving sucks. barnold fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 21:34
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have you tried updating the BIOS/microcode?
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Jun 23, 2017 21:59
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Yeah, I was on the latest official for the B350 Tomahawk (1.50) but I decided to flash the latest beta bios, 1.64. Re-enabled SVM, set IOMMU to Enabled instead of Auto just to make sure, and now the virtual machine is booting with AMD-V enabled. They should push one of these to the official page one of these days, otherwise people like me who aren't particularly keen on using beta BIOS versions would never know
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Jun 23, 2017 22:23
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This is probably opening a gate for mockery but does anyone here actively use the ASUS motherboard software side of things? I mean like Fan Xpert 2.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:41
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Wirth1000 posted:This is probably opening a gate for mockery but does anyone here actively use the ASUS motherboard software side of things? I mean like Fan Xpert 2. It was absolute garbage on my skylake, and wouldn't correctly uninstall either. I don't know if it's better on AMD.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:44
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I'm fiddling with it and I really don't trust it. I was curious to see if there's anyone who is comfortable with how it regulates everything.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:46
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I used it on my Phenom system. Seemed to work well enough.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:58
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https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/06/23/even-more-performance-updates-for-ryzen-customers New patches: Tomb Raider performance on Ryzen increases by 28%, ZBrush light placement performance on Ryzen increases by 204,772% (22.5 seconds to 11 milliseconds lmao)
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Jun 24, 2017 02:08
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Malloc Voidstar posted:https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/06/23/even-more-performance-updates-for-ryzen-customers Ryzen requires some tweaking apparently vs the instructions/behavior that's useful on the older Intel chips. But it does seem to clean up nicely. Based on the IOMMU/compiling discussion stuff I really think I am out until Threadripper+New stepping, but by then hopefully people will have done these patches.  Is there any low-level discussion of how Ryzen's behavior differs from the Intel chips and how best to code for it? Other than "Microarchitecture"? Do the patches people are making for Ryzen have any relevance for SKL-X given the increase in near-core latency in the new mesh interconnect?
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Jun 24, 2017 03:01
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Jesus the wait for threadripper is killing me, where are the drat leaks at
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Jun 24, 2017 03:02
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