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Blazing Ownager posted:So far all Mike has done with Gus is knock over a truck he would have done anyway, and get some money laundered. He didn't hate her until she tried to have him and all his guys killed. He was even ready to forgive the first time she floated the idea of mass killings as a solution to their problem. I wouldn't say he liked her, but if they literally have no more scenes together until their first scene in Breaking Bad their would be no discontinuity in their relationship. Likewise if Gus and Mike weren't shown, we can easily surmise the inbetween story; Mike is competent, does a good job whenever he is asked to, and Gus gradually asks more and more of him. Mike gets in so deep, with his name clearly on the books, that he has no choice but to make sure everything goes smoothly for Gus. Really the only character in that whole side of the show that we can't easily 'fill in the gaps' for is Nacho.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:49
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The Ninth Layer posted:Sure. This season shows the shift from Half-Measure Mike to Full-Measure Mike. The whole point of Mike's arc in Breaking Bad was that he was full of poo poo and did take half measures though. I guess finding a mentor who generally didn't in Gus was what he needed to keep him in line, though the one thing Gus did half way turned out to be his downfall too.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:55
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Blazing Ownager posted:Also Saul has never been a monster. There's a difference between screwing over some people, and screwing over others. I can even picture Breaking Bad Saul feeling bad for utterly wrecking the life of a sweet old lady and her two cats. Saul literally suggested/tried to facilitate the assassination of several people over the series.
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Jun 25, 2017 07:20
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No he didn't, he just asked about it because Walter is a bonkers client and was trying to understand his goals. Less "just kill the guy" and more "...why not just kill the guy?"
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Jun 25, 2017 08:09
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Doctor Reynolds posted:No he didn't, he just asked about it because Walter is a bonkers client and was trying to understand his goals. Less "just kill the guy" and more "...why not just kill the guy?" http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15nfmd_saul-goodman-kidnapped-by-the-meth-cooking-duo_fun
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Jun 25, 2017 08:35
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socialsecurity posted:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15nfmd_saul-goodman-kidnapped-by-the-meth-cooking-duo_fun I'd say that clip is backing up their point. It's a "why not?" Saul is operating at different stakes to Jimmy and within the context of dealing with drug dealers it makes sense for him to suggest that. It's not like he's going to be the one to actually carry it out. Not that that makes it ok. Edit: also Jessie and Walt are probably showing a confusing level of empathy towards their underlings potentially talking to the DEA to what he's used to. Rev. Melchisedech Howler fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 09:16
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He did do everything in his power to try and convince Walt to get back into cooking meth, after he had clearly stated he was done with it. Maybe not monstrous, but a different person may have taken the "perhaps that's for the best" route. It's possible Saul was 'motivated' to take this course of action by Mike and Gus. He also has no qualms pulling cons on people for his clients, cheating them of significant assets (Jessie's parents) or their life's work (Mr. Eyebrows). This is not even barely legal work, he's literally just acting as a conman for hire. I wouldn't call him a monster though. Jimmy McGill, on the other hand, made an old lady cry. Unforgivable, never forget.
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Jun 25, 2017 09:57
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The Ninth Layer posted:Sure. This season shows the shift from Half-Measure Mike to Full-Measure Mike. But Mike was already making the big money before he met Gus in Season 2. He was already doing the work getting $200,000. Now he's just doing work to hide it. I don't see how that's any more of a full measure. And I thought the birth of Full-Measure Mike was when a girl got killed when he was a cop and he could have prevented it. However even if this is all completely correct and it's not just reaching to find meaning, it's still very undramatic. So much so that they couldn't even think of anything for him to do in the finale. There was no story of his they could use to conclude this season because he didn't have much of a story. He barely did anything in the episode before the finale.
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Jun 25, 2017 10:21
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all the people Saul suggested to kill, it was the logical thing to do it's not his fault Walt caused the situations to be like that
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Jun 25, 2017 11:36
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Ein cooler Typ posted:all the people Saul suggested to kill, it was the logical thing to do Is this a joke post? Having reasons for murdering people doesn't make it not murder.
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Jun 25, 2017 15:27
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You guys realize this is a show about the bad guys, right? You might wanna go watch glee if the idea of killing a snitch to protect your drug empire is too evil for you. What do you think is Jimmy's favorite line from Life Of Brian? I think it would be "Don't do it again or I'll cut your balls off" now but you know he giggled like a school girl as a kid to biggus dickus
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Jun 25, 2017 15:56
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Jimmy's reasoning would be along the lines of "Hey, you don't wanna risk getting shanked in a prison bathroom, maybe don't sell large quantities of high grade trucker speed?" His suggestions to "just" have people killed off is based on that being SOP for these guys.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:03
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SeXReX posted:You guys realize this is a show about the bad guys, right? Wtf are you even talking about? Nobody's bothered by him being a bad guy, there was just a bit of contention about whether or not he was a monster, with some people trying to excuse his behavior and others saying nah he was willing to do pretty much anything out of self-interest by the end of Breaking Bad.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:48
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Pretty sure if you put a gun to Jimmy's head at the end of Season 3 of BCS there isn't much he wouldn't go along with if he thought he could escape external consequences.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:04
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Restrained Crown Posse posted:I'd say that clip is backing up their point. It's a "why not?" It's absolutely not a "Why not?" This is a common defense of Saul's actions, but it doesn't line up with either the acting, the context, or the intent of the lines at all. He repeatedly suggests that they just kill Badger, even long after Walt and Jesse have solidly committed to the Jimmy In-'N-Out plan. Saul really doesn't want to do their plan because it's so risky and hard to pull off in comparison to a simple prison shanking. Then later he suggests killing Jesse, who's similarly about to snitch. Saul has no problem having snitches killed. It's a tool of the criminal lawyer trade.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:22
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I bet gus likes the meaning of life.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:25
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SeXReX posted:I bet gus likes the meaning of life. Of course he does, he's awesome.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:33
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Cnut the Great posted:It's absolutely not a "Why not?" This is a common defense of Saul's actions, but it doesn't line up with either the acting, the context, or the intent of the lines at all. He repeatedly suggests that they just kill Badger, even long after Walt and Jesse have solidly committed to the Jimmy In-'N-Out plan. Saul really doesn't want to do their plan because it's so risky and hard to pull off in comparison to a simple prison shanking. The worst thing he did was suggest that Hank be murdered. Even as horrible as Walt became he never once wished for the death of someone not associated with their business. You never saw him planning on killing law enforcement.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:15
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Pretty sure if you put a gun to Jimmy's head at the end of Season 3 of BCS there isn't much he wouldn't go along with if he thought he could escape external consequences. Put a gun to anyone's head and they'd probably do just about anything. Saul suggested murdering an innocent man to try to escape prison or the exile he ended up going into though, not to save his life. Jimmy's not a good guy, but I don't think he'd openly suggest murdering someone for that reason at this point in his evolution. The Saul from his early appearances in Breaking Bad probably wouldn't have either, to be fair. Walt made him a worse person than he was.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:45
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Jimmy did not have to go to such extremes in his yoga speech.
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Jun 26, 2017 02:43
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The entire cartel part of the show is not very well done. It's not very well conceived, and it's not very well executed. Mike's involvement in it from the beginning (helping get rid of Tuco) has no real stakes for him.Then Hector becomes involved, but he is not well developed or interesting as a character at all. Then Mike's involvement ends up hinging on a nameless good samaritan being killed. It "builds" to Mike trying to kill Hector (from afar) and not doing so. Partly stopped by Gus. Then Gus shows up. He has a 'conflict' with Hector which amounts to little more than a couple of fits here and there. Very few stakes for anyone. Then the whole situation is 'resolved' in a largely tension-less scene where Nacho is going to 'kill' Hector (at no point is it believable that this might happen), and then it doesn't happen but instead there is a mild discussion and Hector gets a bit angry and finally has his heart attack. Mike is nowhere to be seen in any of this. It's not just not very well done when you compare it to Breaking Bad, which was a much more gripping show. When a random person gets killed on that show (the kid), you actually see it, so it has a real effect on you. Here you don't see it. It doesn't tell you anything about anyone. It is literally just a plot device. When there is a conflict between characters, it seems to have real stakes. When someone is about to do something like try to kill a person, you're genuinely worried about what might happen or how it might resolve itself. There is a tension because of this. Here, Mike goes off to kill Hector... with a sniper rifle from a million miles away. Whoo. Nacho is closer, but it is not conveyed in a way that you believe he might get caught or might get in real trouble. It's just... there. This part of the show (which is half), I'm confident to say does not work at all unless you've seen Breaking Bad, because this show itself has not done anywhere near enough to define these characters well enough to make any of this poo poo matter. This is a problem of the concept of the show, because they're trying to make a show which is half about a lawyer (with necessarily lower stakes), and the other half about a bunch of criminals and drug dealers. I suspect that, in order to keep balance, they've tried to underplay the criminal element and lower the stakes there, but the problem is they've lowered them to nonexistence. They've completely botched giving the characters a motivation that audiences can share. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 03:00
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Yeah and then on top of that, it's the only part of the show that even reminds you that this is a Breaking Bad prequel, because Jimmy still isn't anywhere close to the character he was in Breaking Bad. Jimmy's story feels like it's where it should have been at halfway through season 2, and Mike's story has been little more than fan service. "Oh ok, so that's how Mike met Gus. Neat." It's not surprising at all that so many people have jumped ship on this show. I still do like it but after the back-peddling in s03e10, I wouldn't be terribly upset if this doesn't get renewed, which is shocking since s03e09 made me think I would be devastated to have to wait a year.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:31
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Given that we never actually saw ANY of Saul's personal life in BB, I'm open to the possibility that this show isn't necessarily about the transformation into Saul so much as telling us what kind of a person Jimmy really was while he was playing Saul for his clients. Maybe he isn't the guy we think he was, he just acted like that.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:43
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Javid posted:Given that we never actually saw ANY of Saul's personal life in BB, I'm open to the possibility that this show isn't necessarily about the transformation into Saul so much as telling us what kind of a person Jimmy really was while he was playing Saul for his clients. Maybe he isn't the guy we think he was, he just acted like that. I think it's really more that he played a part so long and so well that he forgot who he really was, and he's only remembering now that he has time and distance as Gene. Even the writers keep talking about what's keeping him connected to his humanity and keeping him from being Saul, and how those pillars are crumbling, so I think we're meant to assume he's going to be left with nothing but that persona by the end of this.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:50
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SeXReX posted:Not that any of my friends are Neilson families but the prevailing opinion I encountered on this season was "Ill wait until I can binge it" Neilson has been leaving messages about me being a house and I've been contemplating it. Just to boost bcs raitings and other weird poo poo that traditionally doesn't get good raitings but is good tv. Though I worked in television so if they do any background check I couldn't be part of it.
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Jun 26, 2017 04:07
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Real question, what was the "good stuff" Kim was taking? Jimmy was offering her that and ibuprofen, and I can't figure out what "that" was.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:12
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Also, to downplay how noble Jimmy was in confessing to the old ladies, he didn't really need that money urgently anymore. Kim got into that crash and they collectively decided they didn't want the office anymore. So he could afford to wait longer and get a bigger sum eventually. That's not to say he didn't think he was being noble. Heck, it was pretty sweet. But the circumstances had moved on such that his actions were ultimately not that big a deal.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:17
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Jimmy still needs rent and food money though, and I doubt he would want to leech off of Kim or work a boring 9 to 5 job.
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Jun 26, 2017 11:58
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Maybe he'll work at a cinnabon
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Jun 26, 2017 11:59
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I agree that the Mike/ cartel stuff is the weakest part of the show, and I could've done without it. However, it's not so bad that it distracts me from the good parts of the show too much.
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Jun 26, 2017 12:36
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I love Mike's Macgyver episodes and I wish the show was about him instead of Saul
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Jun 26, 2017 12:56
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Vegetable posted:Real question, what was the "good stuff" Kim was taking? Jimmy was offering her that and ibuprofen, and I can't figure out what "that" was. Likely something with codeine or hydrocodone in it like Tylenol 3 or Vicodin.
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Jun 26, 2017 13:04
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Crushed ibuprofen in a nitro capsule
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Jun 26, 2017 14:46
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Vegetable posted:Real question, what was the "good stuff" Kim was taking? Jimmy was offering her that and ibuprofen, and I can't figure out what "that" was. Opiates my man. Percocet/Vicodin/etc. I find it hard to believe you don't know what pain medication is.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:51
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Vegetable posted:Real question, what was the "good stuff" Kim was taking? Jimmy was offering her that and ibuprofen, and I can't figure out what "that" was. Fentanyl, obv. 
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Jun 26, 2017 15:07
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Its copies of life of brian because that's the good Monty python movie
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Jun 26, 2017 15:20
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RCarr posted:Opiates my man. Percocet/Vicodin/etc. I find it hard to believe you don't know what pain medication is. Kim getting addicted to opiates and spiraling into drug abuse due to her car crash would be an interesting season arc.
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Jun 26, 2017 15:56
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Pedro De Heredia posted:It's not just not very well done when you compare it to Breaking Bad, which was a much more gripping show. When a random person gets killed on that show (the kid), you actually see it, so it has a real effect on you. Here you don't see it. It doesn't tell you anything about anyone. It is literally just a plot device. I disagree with most of this post in general but I think the "lack of stakes" largely stems from the fact that we know certain characters live and die and also already know where they wind up.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:11
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Pedro De Heredia posted:It's not just not very well done when you compare it to Breaking Bad, which was a much more gripping show. When a random person gets killed on that show (the kid), you actually see it, so it has a real effect on you. Here you don't see it. It doesn't tell you anything about anyone. It is literally just a plot device. How in the world would seeing the Good Samaritan shot have told you anything new about who anyone is? We know what the Salamancas are, and if we didn't, the fact they killed that guy tells us. The real dramatic beat in that sequence of events is Mike's anger/remorse at being told the guy was killed. That would have LESS dramatic impact if you saw it happen and then you saw him being told about it. We all knew what was going to happen to the guy anyhow, but when it's confirmed, we get to see Mike's reaction straight away.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:29
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I think in a hypothetical next season, we will probably see cool stuff where Gus tries to expand into the power vacuum left by Hector and needs to use Mike more and more. Also Chuck's heart will be damaged due to smoke inhalation requiring the installation of a pacemaker
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Jun 26, 2017 17:46
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