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BWV
Feb 24, 2005


I haven't read ball don't lie in forever but that was one of the OG basketball websites. I know it's just Dwyer leaving, and multiple people have ran that site, but it still feels like the end of an era. Basketball Twitter is its glorious self because of those mid 2000s blogs and the (now) ease of finding of nbastreams

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morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Teemu Pokemon posted:

ESPN slowly killed spots journalism and Twitter pissed on its grave

In terms of the actual craft sports writing is probably in the best place it's ever been. It just sucks if you want to make a living.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Sports Podcasts are amazing right now

:shrug:

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

morestuff posted:

In terms of the actual craft sports writing is probably in the best place it's ever been. It just sucks if you want to make a living.

Well, any craft will get better over time, but unless there's more long form, and less worrying about TAEKS, it'll be a travesty regardless of how good, talented, pure, and well compensated any specific person within the industry is

But that also operates on the assumption that people want to read long form, and that's where Twitter comes in..

euphronius posted:

Sports Podcasts are amazing right now

:shrug:

Podcasts aren't really journalism, but totally agree.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jun 15, 2017

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Teemu Pokemon posted:

Well, any craft will get better over time, but unless there's more long form, and less worrying about TAEKS, it'll be a travesty regardless of how good, talented, pure, and well compensated any specific person within the industry is

But that also operates on the assumption that people want to read long form, and that's where Twitter comes in..


Podcasts aren't really journalism, but totally agree.

Not sure what era you had in mind but even a few decades ago your options were basically your local paper, SI, and a few other magazines. It's not like blowhard columnists were hard to find then, either.

There's a lot more of everything since the internet lowered the barrier to entry, good and bad, but it's pretty easy to find what you want and ignore what you don't. In theory there might be fewer outlets with the deep pockets that can fund really in-depth reporting, but even in the publishing golden age there wasn't much of that in sports sections.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

morestuff posted:

Not sure what era you had in mind but even a few decades ago your options were basically your local paper, SI, and a few other magazines. It's not like blowhard columnists were hard to find then, either.

Well now what I'm commenting on is that The Worldwide Leader made blowhards the standard in the early aughts when ATH and PTI really hit their stride and that shaped the industry. It's been only downhill from there.

I like to think there's a reason why Max Kellerman only covers boxing :v:

quote:

There's a lot more of everything since the internet lowered the barrier to entry, good and bad, but it's pretty easy to find what you want and ignore what you don't. In theory there might be fewer outlets with the deep pockets that can fund really in-depth reporting, but even in the publishing golden age there wasn't much of that in sports sections.

While that all may be true, that lowered "barrier for entry" has done just as much bad as good imho

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jun 15, 2017

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

I followed sports in the 80s and it was local sports newspaper , tv , and si.
Sports talk radio was early 90s iirc

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Teemu Pokemon posted:

Well now what I'm commenting on is that The Worldwide Leader made blowhards the standard in the early aughts when ATH and PTI really hit their stride and that shaped the industry. It's been only downhill from there.

I like to think there's a reason why Max Kellerman only covers boxing :v:


While that all may be true, that lowered "barrier for entry" has done just as much bad as good imho

I feel like both these are only true if you're ignoring all the good stuff out there and actively choosing to wallow in poo poo

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

He's one of my faves, and the reason why Yahoo is the place I went to first when I wanted to read about sports and couldn't get to forums for some reason.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002

Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help

Bye bye ball don't lie! Maybe he can join his old website pal on the starters or some other NBA channel show

chunkles
Aug 14, 2005

i am completely immersed in darkness
as i turn my body away from the sun
Are they getting rid of all the BDL people or just Dwyer?

I'm reminded of that episode a couple months back where he pointed out the sleazy nature of some team owner (I think it was the Amway guy?) and some Yahoo exec wanted him fired for it.

e: http://awfulannouncing.com/the-locker/yahoo-sports-reportedly-killed-post-dan-gilberts-behest.html

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

morestuff posted:

I feel like both these are only true if you're ignoring all the good stuff out there and actively choosing to wallow in poo poo

I just feel that no matter how exceptional or prevalent the good poo poo out there is, it's not as close as it seems to dictating how the industry operates. There's a reason why ESPN and other outlets are dropping legitimate journalists but are still employing Stephen A



ESPN has been the Fox News of sports since Fox News was getting its feet wet and that kind of ~~~*content*~~~ ain't going away quietly

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 15, 2017

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

Succinct and instant news is what people want with easily digestible takes.


Longform journalism and analysis is dead.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

Harlock posted:

Succinct and instant news is what people want with easily digestible takes.


Longform journalism and analysis is dead.

Unless it tells a fantastic and entertaining story. Non-fiction short story, basically.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

Harlock posted:

Succinct and instant news is what people want with easily digestible takes.


Longform journalism and analysis is dead.

Here's more than a dozen 1000+-word articles covering a variety of sports, tones, and outlets published in the past week or so. I found those by clicking around for five minutes.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


MMA reporters have formed a professional association

BWV
Feb 24, 2005


Harlock posted:

Succinct and instant news is what people want with easily digestible takes.


Longform journalism and analysis is dead.

I think, like so much of journalism content, long form is actually thriving. It's just people aren't really getting paid for it and the pieces don't stay in the zeitgeist for very long. If anything, the problem is that there is so much good poo poo out there being published on a daily basis that it's difficult to capture anyone's attention for that long. This isn't so much a problem with long form journalism but just the general speed at which we seem to consume and the way people are now getting paid to do work. Maybe it will eventually lead to no one getting paid for anything and bots just writing hot takes but we are at least for now still living in an era with awesome writers writing awesome articles.

So maybe long form journalism is thriving but the long form journalist is on his/her death bed

BWV fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 15, 2017

ChickenMedium
Sep 2, 2001
Forum Veteran And Professor Emeritus of Condiment Studies

euphronius posted:

I followed sports in the 80s and it was local sports newspaper , tv , and si.
Sports talk radio was early 90s iirc

It's all been downhill since The George Michael Sports Machine went off the air imo

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 11, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick

Nap Ghost

Give Meltzer a position.

Niwrad
Jul 1, 2008

Harlock posted:

Longform journalism and analysis is dead.

Analysis is everywhere. Now people can get it from someone on SBNation instead of ESPN. And SBNation doesn't need to pay much if anything at all to their writers (which is ironic since it's owned by Vox).

I think longform journalism has its place and is still popular. But you are going to struggle if that's all your site has to offer.

Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004

another yahoo-verizon casualty

https://twitter.com/Sean_Leahy/status/875767361722363905

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007



It should have been rlam

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I'm surprised all NHL/Puck Daddy isn't on the chopping block.

Zeeman
May 8, 2007

Say WHAT?! You KNOW that post is wack, homie!
Does that make Wysh and Lambert the only remaining Puck Daddy people (for now)?

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Kibner posted:

Unless it tells a fantastic and entertaining story. Non-fiction short story, basically.

And there's plenty of brilliant writers out there brilliant enough to write them, but not everyone is lucky enough to be Drew Magary, who can save the fiction for novels, the longer form for a national print publication, and the taeks for a site that is that right beautiful mixture of insightful, talented, and an utter joke at the same wonderful moment in time

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


I see Albert Breer is still a racist jackass


MMQB posted:

And yet, this question from those who were there lingers: Does he still want to play?

So in the immediate wake of the most controversial thing he’s done since he started kneeling for the anthem, I’m ready to align with others who’ve said it: It’s time for Kaepernick to talk for himself. Doesn’t matter how he does it. It can be through the legion of reporters friendly to his efforts. It can be through a video released on social media. It can be through a Facebook page or a press conference.

Whatever. It’s just time for Kaepernick to talk.

The problem is in the vacuum that his silence has created. It’s been filled with speculation and tea-leaf reading. Meanwhile, teams unsure if Kaepernick was truly interested in continuing his NFL career (rather than focusing solely on his causes) are still wondering. And that’s so long as they haven’t been convinced by his most recent actions that he’s out.

…As one Niners employee explained it, Kaepernick wouldn’t stay late at the facility during the season like many quarterbacks routinely do, saying he’d take work home. And there were examples where coaches saw what looked like shoddy prep surfacing in inexplicable mental errors in games. Another staffer, asked if he thinks Kaepernick wants to keep playing, answered, “I do think he wants to play—to stay relevant.”

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



DJExile posted:

I see Albert Breer is still a racist jackass
It's not confined to him though. Sports media as a whole have done a great job allowing the owners to blackball a player into not having a job over his politics. I saw very very few pro-Kapernick articles during his protests, and I have seen so many 'quarterback x (who is terrible) deserves a job over Kapernick because he's too busy being an activist' articles that I've honestly lost count.

Then again the media also went to bat for the owners after the whole Michael Sam debacle likely led to NFL players who were ready to come out and play openly going back in the closet for the remainder of their careers. Just the other day there was an article about another ex-NFL player who is gay but did not publicly come out until he was no longer playing.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together
Baseball writers did an excellent job helping to get Barry Bonds blacklisted from MLB and sticking up for MLB's outrageous witchhunt against Arod, who has been a scapegoat for every evil the owners themselves created since he signed that $252 million contract.

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010

FlamingLiberal posted:

It's not confined to him though. Sports media as a whole have done a great job allowing the owners to blackball a player into not having a job over his politics. I saw very very few pro-Kapernick articles during his protests, and I have seen so many 'quarterback x (who is terrible) deserves a job over Kapernick because he's too busy being an activist' articles that I've honestly lost count.

Then again the media also went to bat for the owners after the whole Michael Sam debacle likely led to NFL players who were ready to come out and play openly going back in the closet for the remainder of their careers. Just the other day there was an article about another ex-NFL player who is gay but did not publicly come out until he was no longer playing.

That guy retired before Michael Sam came into the league.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Henchman of Santa posted:

That guy retired before Michael Sam came into the league.

Are they wrong though?

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010

iospace posted:

Are they wrong though?

No, but he seemed to imply that Michael Sam hot takes affected that player's decision

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

ElwoodCuse posted:

Baseball writers did an excellent job helping to get Barry Bonds blacklisted from MLB and sticking up for MLB's outrageous witchhunt against Arod, who has been a scapegoat for every evil the owners themselves created since he signed that $252 million contract.

The BBWAA is perfectly happy to carry MLB's water for them if it allows the writers to get sanctimonious and self-righteous about someone they don't like.

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010
Most of the BBWA should be executed honestly

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...
I had a contract gig with the hall of fame once developing archival collections about Wendell Smith. It's very drat telling that multiple BBWAA presidents from the 1970s refused to speak with me about the project. One even said he wouldn't talk to me until I did a project about him, the self important prick.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Henchman of Santa posted:

That guy retired before Michael Sam came into the league.
True, but during the Michael Sam stuff I believe former Raven Brendan Ayanbedejo said that he had been in contact with several closeted NFL players who were debating coming out publicly as a group. However, once the GMs made all of the noise about Sam being a 'distraction' that was the last we heard about anyone else coming out.

Spoeank
Jul 16, 2003

That's a nice set of 11 dynasty points there, it would be a shame if 3 rings were to happen with it

joshtothemaxx posted:

I had a contract gig with the hall of fame once developing archival collections about Wendell Smith. It's very drat telling that multiple BBWAA presidents from the 1970s refused to speak with me about the project. One even said he wouldn't talk to me until I did a project about him, the self important prick.

This isn't too surprising because BBWAA writers past a certain age only talk about themselves all the time

Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004

https://twitter.com/Lucas_Shaw/status/879387810398179332
https://twitter.com/ericjackson/status/879388590056374272

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

Goddammit, I can read an 800-word article a hell of a lot more quickly than it takes to sit through a five-minute video of talking heads.

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel

Timby posted:

Goddammit, I can read an 800-word article a hell of a lot more quickly than it takes to sit through a five-minute video of talking heads.

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Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair

Timby posted:

The BBWAA is perfectly happy to carry MLB's water for them if it allows the writers to get sanctimonious and self-righteous about someone they don't like.

Almost all professional journalists are willing to sacrifice coverage for access. Look at the current state of the White House press conference.

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