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V for Vegas posted:Meanwhile the Paradox juggernaut gathers pace Overlord, but you're managing an 19th century slum and factroy Age of Wonders, except the map is Europe and you're Napoleon and you still have magical powers
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Jun 30, 2017 07:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:Overlord, but you're managing an 19th century slum and factroy You say this as if Napoleon didn't have magical powers.
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Jun 30, 2017 08:19
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Now Paradox can finally publish a decent 4X game. actually I'm coming around to the view that Stellaris is a very good game
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Jun 30, 2017 08:42
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V for Vegas posted:Now Paradox can finally publish a decent 4X game. Show your work please
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Jun 30, 2017 12:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:Overlord, but you're managing an 19th century slum and factroy Isn't there a middling book series that's the Napoleonic wars, but with magic/dragons? Easy IP tie in.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:36
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COOL CORN posted:Show your work please I really think Stellaris will come around. It's definitely fun, if a bit flat due to the lack of a deeper diplomatic and espionage game. The also had some missteps from the "old" design team, namely the POP/tile system and the attempt to do a lame "rock-paper-scissors" system with weapons and defenses. It looks like these will eventually all be addressed, hopefully. The first two DLCs were promising.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:41
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LogisticEarth posted:I really think Stellaris will come around. It's definitely fun, if a bit flat due to the lack of a deeper diplomatic and espionage game. The also had some missteps from the "old" design team, namely the POP/tile system and the attempt to do a lame "rock-paper-scissors" system with weapons and defenses. On top of that, it is the worst combat system I have ever seen in a 4x, with the auto-engaging anything within some arbitrary range, at which point your ships start moving really slow and get in formation and refuse to take any orders what-so-ever, and often waste time shooting mining structures or other nonsense instead of fighting. edit: oh and any kind of warfare is a tedious slog because of the three varieties of FTL LogisticEarth posted:It looks like these will eventually all be addressed, hopefully. The first two DLCs were promising.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:01
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LogisticEarth posted:some missteps from the "old" design team, namely the POP/tile system Now see this is where I disagree entirely and why I think Stellaris is a good game - and potentially a great game - its only hope lies in the POPS. The mash up of Crusader Kings and Victoria is the one bright spark in the game that Paradox are slowly, if haphazardly, fanning to life. The unique selling point of Stellaris when it was released was that it allowed you to create an infinite mashup of science fiction tropes - you could have House Harkonnen fighting with the Romulans against the backdrop of a hive fleet invasion. Obviously that's not how it was when it released and for some strange reason Paradox regressed to relying on events rather than mechanics to achieve that style of gameplay. But the bones of the game are there to generate great science fiction stories through the POP mechanics. That's why I think people calling for an overhaul of wars and combat are missing the point - what needs to be beefed up are the politics as to why you go to war, not how that war is prosecuted.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:23
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Isn't there a middling book series that's the Napoleonic wars, but with magic/dragons? I think you mean a very good CYOA series.  Swords/Guns of Infinity are the ones I'm thinking of. No dragons though.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:On top of that, it is the worst combat system I have ever seen in a 4x, with the auto-engaging anything within some arbitrary range, at which point your ships start moving really slow and get in formation and refuse to take any orders what-so-ever, and often waste time shooting mining structures or other nonsense instead of fighting. Endless Space was way worse IMHO
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Jun 30, 2017 14:24
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If you think Stellaris is anything like Vicky 2 because it has pops then boy, you probably didn't ever play Vicky 2 did you? It's a mashup of MOO-style workers with Galactic Civilizations-style tiles. Which is not to say those things are bad, but both of those systems are pretty demonstrative of the tedious micromanagement that you get in 4x games that grand strategy tries to avoid.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:40
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put sword of the star's combat in stellaris. game fixed.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:52
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Put vicky 2 style pops in Stellaris. game completely hosed, but so much better.
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Jun 30, 2017 15:00
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StarMinstrel posted:Endless Space was way worse IMHO  . The game is just micro hell to me, much more so than Endless Space was.
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Jun 30, 2017 15:09
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I've not played Stellaris, but doesn't Master of Orion 2 have "pops", in the sense that you get one humanoid figure per 100k inhabitants and you shuffle them around either being Farmers, Industrial Workers, or Scientists?
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Jun 30, 2017 15:10
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Jabor posted:If you think Stellaris is anything like Vicky 2 because it has pops then boy, you probably didn't ever play Vicky 2 did you? Yeah, Vicky-esque POPs would be more interesting, right now the tile/pop system creates too much clunky micro.
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Jun 30, 2017 15:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:I've not played Stellaris, but doesn't Master of Orion 2 have "pops", in the sense that you get one humanoid figure per 100k inhabitants and you shuffle them around either being Farmers, Industrial Workers, or Scientists? LogisticEarth posted:Yeah, Vicky-esque POPs would be more interesting, right now the tile/pop system creates too much clunky micro.
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Jun 30, 2017 15:15
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I think you mean a very good CYOA series. Nah, he means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temeraire_(series)
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Jun 30, 2017 16:14
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Put vicky 2 style pops in Stellaris. Sorry, all your Klingon pops migrated to a newly colonised world and assimilated into pacifist Jedis, after the coming election you will no longer be allowed to declare wars and your entire manufacturing sector will shut down.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:41
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sheep-dodger posted:Sorry, all your Klingon pops migrated to a newly colonised world and assimilated into pacifist Jedis, after the coming election you will no longer be allowed to declare wars and your entire manufacturing sector will shut down.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:I've not played Stellaris, but doesn't Master of Orion 2 have "pops", in the sense that you get one humanoid figure per 100k inhabitants and you shuffle them around either being Farmers, Industrial Workers, or Scientists? Yeah, I think something like that would have worked better. Or maybe even something simpler like MOO 1. You could still have a population pie chart with ideologies etc without distinct pops you manually drag around. Personally, I think the fact that the game needs sectors to be playable shows the planet mini game is too micro dependent.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:30
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I've been running/playing in a large MP game for the past few months, with the intention of it being a Grand Campaign. We're a couple hundred years into CK2 now, and have been growing in size steadily so it may actually happen! We started in 867, and are currently in year 1055 Here is the current state of the world. Despite being AI, the Abbasids are the current top of the pack, requiring huge alliances and efforts to stop them whenever they start a war. Our players are: Italy, currently renamed the Order of Hermes after generations of being the heads of the Hermetic Society France Germanic Ireland Venice Germanic Ethiopia, currently renamed the Plague of Locusts Sweden, soon to be Scandinavia Jerusalem, renamed to be Heaven (and therefore localized in game as Kingdom of Heaven) Sri Lanka, who just started as them and hasn't grown much yet  This is the Order of Hermes. You can see Carthage down in Africa, which used to belong to Italy (you need three kingdom titles to create an Empire) but was then released as independent. Unfortunately, some vassal issues had them steal one Italian county, so there will be a war soon. I am the one playing the Order, and am the strongest player currently due to generations of relative stability. You can also see Venice's small holdings here. That player is currently out of power, but has a lot of trade posts.  This border gore is France, racing to try and create the Empire title. France is a longstanding friend of Italy, although we aren't allied at the moment. France is currently hired to help Ireland conquer Britain. It's... not going super great.  This is Ireland. He controlled Scotland until a few years ago, but hasn't managed to switch from Gavelkind yet. He keeps making strong gains into England and Wales, and then losing wars and having it all fall apart. These borders have gone back and forth for the last hundred years. Ireland/Scotland are Germanic Pagans, and so get a lot of help from Sweden.  Sweden's been expanding steadily, but has hit some roadblocks recently. Namely, Denmark converted to Catholicism, and the Sweden player isn't willing to poke that bear just yet. Earlier in the game, AI Norway conquered southern France, kicking off the Crusades in about 900 and spawning a bunch of Holy Orders. Not a great time to be Germanic, although most of the Holy Orders have been vassalized by various people by now.  And here we have the Plague of Locusts, a Germanic Merchant Republic in Africa. They've been the front line against the Abbasids since the start of the game, and has held on admirably. He is also currently out of power, having somehow become a feudal vassal of the Republic during a missed game session.  After I won a crusade for Jerusalem, I renamed it as Heaven and released it, allowing a new player to take control. He's since lost Jerusalem and then retaken it in ANOTHER crusade, and is our other front line against the Abbasids. This character is the same dynasty as mine, so we've been allies ever since Heaven was established.  And finally, our new Indian player. He's had less than twenty years in game, but I fully expect to see this grow to cover at least half of India soon. He was formerly playing Anjou, but got bored being a vassal.  And finally, the Religion Map Overall, it's a really fun ride, full of weird twists and turns. Until recently, the Abbasids were my tributaries due to an opportunistic war, but I couldn't hold onto them due to being outnumbered 2:1. The Sunni empire in Hispania is actually the Shia Caliphate. The West Africans in Mali are winning against the Umayyads somehow. And all this time, I've been preparing a mod for EU4 to allow us to not have to play Victoria 2 by expanding the EU4 timeline and content to cover through 1936.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:49
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LogisticEarth posted:Yeah, Vicky-esque POPs would be more interesting, right now the tile/pop system creates too much clunky micro. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Yes. That was much simpler to manage because planets had a Mineral Wealth rating, Farming rating, and Science rating. You just shuffled your pops around as you needed. In Stellaris your planets have X number of tiles, and each does really different things and pretty much nothing until upgraded. You have to build each upgrade manually, assign each pop to each tile manually, and upgrade each building manually many times through the game. Obviously you'd still have different pop types embedded in these population numbers, scaling things up and down depending on the category and how large the given pop is. Basically, you wouldn't generally have to care about the exact composition of your pops in a given system, since traits would just be weighted into the numbers you were looking at. So if for example you had a population in a habitable zone all with the "Gluttonous" trait (+50% food consumption), then the Food column would take that into account when calculating whether the zone was a net food producer or not. Or if you had a species with the "Communal" trait they'd only have a weight of for example 0.8 when it came to overpopulation, allowing you to cram more of them into the same zone before they get unhappy. Conversely with "Solitary" species. Buildings in this case could be simplified to base productive buildings, employing a given size of population, which you could just add additional levels to as needed like factories in Vicky, and then buildings with special effects which the player wouldn't mind paying a bit more attention to placing. If you wanted to you could even make pollution a thing, causing a planet to change over time if you just poo poo all over its ecosystem by filling it to the brim with industry. Maybe you have another species that's perfectly fine with living in the pitch black dark of your world-spanning factroy? TL;DR: Just let me turn pristine planets into polluted hive-worlds through regular gameplay, and have that be a natural outcome of the kind of species/society I'm playing as. In Stellaris as it is now, planet management kinda seems too detailed and yet oddly bland at the same time, with planets just seeming the same no matter what kind of species/society you play as.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:47
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that sounds very close to what Endless Space does, and I never found that particularly engaging. i never felt Stellaris planet management to be too micro-managey either, but that's probably because I just don't micromanage my planets after building the initial set of buildings. i don't shuffle pops around unless I'm running a deficit on something. I make a pass every twenty years or so to see if any of the buildings need upgrades. Once you are in the midgame, min-maxing your 5-10 core system planets just isn't going to give you a decisive advantage, because by that point you are regularly spending thousands of minerals on new ships while optimizing your planets gives you a bonus output of perhaps 50 minerals. It's just not worth it. Before the midgame you don't have too much to do anyway, so I think the system works fine.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:23
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V for Vegas posted:That's why I think people calling for an overhaul of wars and combat are missing the point - what needs to be beefed up are the politics as to why you go to war, not how that war is prosecuted. Wars and combat absolutely need to be, if not reworked, then thoroughly polished. If I want my fleet oretreat, and in their retreat path they enter combat range of a research station, and slow down their retreat to attack it because it's hostile thereby allowing the enemy fleet to catch up to them, I'm not going to continue playing that game. I'm going to ragequit. At best I will roll back to an earlier save. But I'm not going to keep on going and pretend that system's not a deal-breaker. If Stellaris is to draw me in a sci-fi setting, a clunky combat mechanic that results in stupid behaviour I can't make up an excuse for is going to take me right out of the setting. This is with the caveat that the last time I played Stellaris was some time after 1.5 released. I am not aware if the ability to make fleets not engage civilian stations that enter combat range has been added since then, but if it has I have not heard about it.
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Jul 1, 2017 02:22
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ArchangeI posted:that sounds very close to what Endless Space does, and I never found that particularly engaging. Basically, I think there's a real possibility to create more meaningful internal politics, which would then tie into galactic politics, but it would probably require getting rid of stuff like tiles and poo poo which don't actually tie into the rest of the game in a meaningful sense.
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Jul 1, 2017 14:02
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One thing I really like the idea of is different species having different space requirements, so while you might be able to fit 100 of only species A, or 100 of only species B in the same plot of land, you could fit 80 of both. The cave slugs and the space bats utilize space differently and an apartment that would make one miserable would be prime real estate for the other.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:41
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Stellaris combat absolutely suffers from being a horrible amalgam of various systems that don't work together well, being at once unintuitive, too hands off and too micro heavy. I really wish the design of the game had been more CK2/Vicky2 than EU4...
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Jul 3, 2017 02:45
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Anybody interested in trying out all of Europa Universalis IV's crazy new custom nation options in multiplayer? If so, there's a weekly game starting July 13th. Our regular Saturday game may also be doing custom nations at some point, if Thursday doesn't work for you. Post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3773305&pagenumber=21#post473997591 Edit: It actually starts the 13th, and it's going to be rad as heck. Orbs fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 16:58
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What are these new options?
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Jul 10, 2017 21:30
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Lots of new ideas mostly. Movement speed, monarch admin power, female advisor chance etc. They've basically added every random modifier they put in the game over the past couple of years into the nation designer. Still don't let you use DLC unit packs though 
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Jul 11, 2017 00:35
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Yeah there are a lot of pretty neat abilities now. A bunch some others beyond what Koramei said are:. + up to 20% Shock/Fire damage dealt and/or received, Artillery Damage from Back Row, and picking the personality traits of your starting Ruler.
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Jul 11, 2017 04:08
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Plus the most important idea of all, artillery bonus vs. forts. (There are actually cooler abilities available, I'm just salty over how much of a pain level 8 forts have been the past few MP games.)
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Jul 11, 2017 06:52
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Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:Plus the most important idea of all, artillery bonus vs. forts. (There are actually cooler abilities available, I'm just salty over how much of a pain level 8 forts have been the past few MP games.) May Raid Coasts Liberty Desire in Subjects -5%/step Liberty Desire in Same Continent Subjects -10%/step War Taxes Cost -10%/step War Score vs Other Religions -12.5%/step Fort Maintenance on border with Rival -10%/step I dont think they are all actually all that useful, but variables are nice. Also, I have just about had it with the stupid need for the game to restart even if I simply go to look at the map in the single player menu and try to go to another menu or want to quit. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 13:06
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Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:Plus the most important idea of all, artillery bonus vs. forts. (There are actually cooler abilities available, I'm just salty over how much of a pain level 8 forts have been the past few MP games.) That doesn't sound like Available Mercenaries, the best of all variables.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:27
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karmicknight posted:That doesn't sound like Available Mercenaries, the best of all variables.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:56
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karmicknight posted:That doesn't sound like Available Mercenaries, the best of all variables. If you don't run out of available mercs then you clearly are too poor
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Jul 11, 2017 20:25
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sheep-dodger posted:If you don't run out of available mercs then you clearly are too poor
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Jul 11, 2017 20:33
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Excuse me, Trade Range would like a word with you. Trade Range and Reduced Inflation Reduction Cost have to be the 2 shittiest modifiers in the whole game
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Jul 11, 2017 21:51
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RabidWeasel posted:Trade Range and Reduced Inflation Reduction Cost have to be the 2 shittiest modifiers in the whole game Prestige from naval battles is a modifier that exists.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:34
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