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General Morden
Mar 3, 2013

GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA

RatHat posted:

The problem is Blizzard takes like 6 months to nerf something and never buffs anything.

How is that a problem?

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RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

General Morden posted:

How is that a problem?

Imagine bear meta. For 6 months. And useless cards will stay useless, forever.

General Morden
Mar 3, 2013

GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA

RatHat posted:

Imagine bear meta. For 6 months. And useless cards will stay useless, forever.

Long metas are a good thing. And it's also technically good for there to be useless cards. It's healthy for the game.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

General Morden posted:

But we can agree that Blizzard is a billion times better at balancing than CDPR right?

CDPR has messed up, but not as bad as the poo poo we got with Karazhan/MSoG metas or Undertaker days.



Flipswitch posted:

No Cahir? I find him too crucial for even more reveals, I tend to also run triple Fire Scorpions. I don't run Roach but I do take Auckes to try to throttle out Consume stuff like Vrans. I don't run any alchemists though but they are pretty nice. I've been running Alzurs to go find that last Spotter in my deck as well and that's been pretty clutch in a few games.

Kinda think Emhyr should be able to pick up golds. Might get a bit silly with some cards like Letho or Yennefer though.

Not hurting for reveal triggers, the two Alchemists end up covering the blind spots well that Vattier can't cover.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

General Morden posted:

Long metas are a good thing. And it's also technically good for there to be useless cards. It's healthy for the game.

You're gonna have to explain these.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

General Morden posted:

Long metas are a good thing. And it's also technically good for there to be useless cards. It's healthy for the game.
Please explain how useless cards are healthy, I never understood that meme.

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

General Morden posted:

But we can agree that Blizzard is a billion times better at balancing than CDPR right?

You're assuming that balance is their primary goal at this point, when I don't think that's really it. Although it gets overused, the "it's in beta" factor is still critical. As weather and Calveit recently showed CPDR is still in a phase where they're willing to radically change or remove entire mechanics if they don't like where they seem to be leading (instead of adjusting everything else around them). Since they're still working out some of the major mechanics, fine tuning the specific units for balance is sort of a lost cause at the moment. I think CPDR is fine tuning only to the extent necessary to not make the game painfully unfun to their current userbase.

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.

No Wave posted:

Please explain how useless cards are healthy, I never understood that meme.

the more useless cards you have cluttering loot tables, the more the player has to spend to get the good cards. it's healthy for corporate.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

I am irritated with the harpy nerf and will still include them in every monster deck. :shepface:

It's an 11 point bronze now plus interesting utility.

General Morden
Mar 3, 2013

GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA
You can't try to make every card useful because it's impossible. There will always be useless cards.

And that's fine because casuals will use the cards they like either for lore reasons or they like the design, even if they're technically useless. C'mon guys you played Hearthstone...

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

General Morden posted:

Long metas are a good thing. And it's also technically good for there to be useless cards. It's healthy for the game.

Huuuuhhh HS is a an absolute dumpster fire RNG based shitfest, this is a strategy game. The only reason why HS still has a "pro-scene" is because it was the first real digital CCG, it looks good and it got immensely popular.

Yes, CDPR has been heavy handed in balancing Gwent lately but HS is basically a spectator sport Team 5 has never had any idea how to balance. It's come to the point where it's more fun to watch other people getting angry at it than to play it yourself. Like here you can figure out where your mistake was in almost every game, in HS half the times it's "well his random generated card from his other random generated card is too strong, I guess I lose".

EDIT: I just discovered they re-introduced old packs but you can only buy them with real money, lol. Between this and the deck recipe bullshit it looks like HS is now as marketing driven as your typical Ubisoft product. :)

Kawabata fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jul 6, 2017

Relentlessboredomm
Oct 15, 2006

It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."
Well every hybrid monster deck or weather monster deck has switched to pure consume. So much consume.

I'm surprisingly not getting much in the way of NR.

Dwarfs are loving nasty now.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Ugh I was gonna get a shiny Calveit, and stall out for buffs, but I'm not so sure now. E: gently caress it ima get a vilgefortz, that card owns.

Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jul 6, 2017

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Uh did Sweers used to work on Revealed cards in your opponent's hand?

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

RatHat posted:

Uh did Sweers used to work on Revealed cards in your opponent's hand?

He did. Still frustrating to play him.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Reveal seems really popular now. Mirrors are pretty funny.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


I slotted Serrit back in for the mirror match, wiping a Spotter from 20+ to 1 is amazing.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Oh that's true. I took him out because they can just mulligan that card to reset it but that isn't an issue with Spotters.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah between him, Peter and maybe Vilgefortz? you can sort of play around enemy spotters.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
I just run 2 Mardroeme in addition to Peter.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah that works too, I might have to give that a go if Serrit turns out to be a bit balls outside of that match up.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Well even if he does literally nothing he's 9 strength now. The bigger issue is what Silver to cut.

Blazing Zero
Sep 7, 2012

*sigh* sure. it's a weed joke

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Well every hybrid monster deck or weather monster deck has switched to pure consume. So much consume.

I'm surprisingly not getting much in the way of NR.

Dwarfs are loving nasty now.

im having fun with a ithillne (sp) dwarf deck / spell mashup thing. the gold that dupes bronze spells is still really good

e: they kind of quietly reduced a lot of NR units by 1 str. they wasnt that great even after the previous patch's rework for the faction. i dont really understand it

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc
Huge shock that now that weather doesn't exist every deck is solitare row stacking idiocy.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Magic Underwear posted:

Huge shock that now that weather doesn't exist every deck is solitare row stacking idiocy.

Lacerate is still a thing though.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

General Morden posted:

You can't try to make every card useful because it's impossible. There will always be useless cards.

And that's fine because casuals will use the cards they like either for lore reasons or they like the design, even if they're technically useless. C'mon guys you played Hearthstone...
Hearthstone is unique in printing utterly useless cards on the level of Grook Fu Master. Not every card in Gwent will be played much, which is fine, but cards that don't belong anywhere ever are a team 5 specialty.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

BitesizedNike
Mar 29, 2008

.flac
Yeah, I'm up to something dumb like 39k scraps. Gonna wait for the meta to settle before I do anything.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
Reminder that crafting every single epic and legendary on a new account costs 65k scraps. You can do whatever you want man, you basically have a full collection.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008
wow. I just played the luckiest man in history. a monsters player with no particular gimmick, just a bunch of cards, until we get to round 3 and i learn his only silvers were the crones and the witchers, and he managed to get to round 3 without having more than 1 crone and witcher in his hand.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Apparently the unit debuffed by Serrit keeps that power if it's mulliganed away. I learned this after my opponent used Marching Orders(presumably to get Grave Hag) but got the Arachas Behemoth I debuffed earlier. :v:

RatHat fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jul 6, 2017

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

No Wave posted:

Reminder that crafting every single epic and legendary on a new account costs 65k scraps. You can do whatever you want man, you basically have a full collection.

I mean they did say this was actually a beta, not a "fake open beta the game is actually released". They don't have the same work-power or resources companies like Blizzard, Ubi or EA have, they literally are the meme indie company full of talented devs that managed to produce at least 2 AAA games already and a fantastic CCG.

They will need to learn to be less heavy handed in their patch approach though, even for a public beta.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

... ...What's a good fourth gold in Consume Monsters now? (I'm running Geels, Kayran, Undertaker)

I'm inclined to just run Avallach despite his nerf from 10 to 8, because Consume Monsters really likes its combos.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Geralt: Igni or Regis Higher Vampire I guess.

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005
This game is still in its infancy. poo poo, it's barely beyond the embryo stage. Just recently the game was completely changed with the addition of between round mulligans, positioning, etc. Imagine how many cards still have to come out before the end of beta and at the start of release, when the single player campaign is introduced. Judging the game and the devs this early on is asinine. If you don't like the game right now or how CDPR changes things, just don't play for a bit.

General Morden
Mar 3, 2013

GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA
Just saying they should take a cue from Blizzard is all.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

RatHat posted:

Geralt: Igni or Regis Higher Vampire I guess.

Regis' funniest/swingiest uses got totally gutted, though. :saddowns:

Igni's a solid contender, especially in the post-weather world.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



GreyjoyBastard posted:

... ...What's a good fourth gold in Consume Monsters now? (I'm running Geels, Kayran, Undertaker)

I'm inclined to just run Avallach despite his nerf from 10 to 8, because Consume Monsters really likes its combos.

Succubus is honestly still really good from what I've seen (assuming you aren't on console), and I've seen some people running Yennefer in a more hybrid-style deck, which seems pretty strong. Avallc'h, Regis, and Gigni are still totally solid options, and there are even people still running Caranthir around the 3.5k mark.

Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 6, 2017

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005

General Morden posted:

Just saying they should take a cue from Blizzard is all.

I think they should probably be balancing a bit quicker, but only in the extremes. I agree with you that there can be useless cards, but only when they have a larger card pool. And completely garbage ones, as in completely unplayable in any deck, should be buffed, while cards that are auto-includes and meta-dominant, such as harpy and bear (which were both seeing play in decks that didn't even necessarily utilize them, but were just so good they had to be included in any deck within that faction), should be nerfed quicker. At least now, in the beta, when the card pool is so small. It's kind of hard to compare Gwent to Hearthstone right now because Hearthstone is years into development with a huge card pool, while Gwent is an almost brand new game with a limited card pool.

Edit: Also, I think Gwent is in a good spot because Gwent gets to look at what all these other card games have done and use them as examples of what to do and what not to do, which is great. So I agree that CDPR needs to take cues from Blizzard. But also Magic, Shadowverse, Duelyst, Elder Scrolls, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, etc.

ShowTime fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 6, 2017

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Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

General Morden posted:

Just saying they should take a cue from Blizzard is all.

As soon as the game's mechanics are actually established they probably want a patching philosophy that's between a "maybe make a card or 2 unplayable forever every 4 months" Blizzard MO and a "let's change how core mechanics work every 2 weeks" current CDPR MO.

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